November 16, 2004
Signatures Schmignatures

This is getting ridiculous. The press on our gubernatorial election is embarrassing. What is this with the "finding" of more ballots? Are they stuck in O'Hare International Airport? Are they hidden in bodily orifices? Are they under someone's toupee? Please help me grasp this race conceptually because apparently I am missing something.

The (always credible) Seattle Times today writes:

Gregoire received another boost yesterday when Democrats delivered affidavits from more than 400 absentee and provisional voters whose votes had been tentatively disqualified by election officials because of signature problems.

State Democratic Party Chairman Paul Berendt, who led the delegation to King County election headquarters in Seattle, said he expects to bring another 200 affidavits today. Voters have until 4:30 this afternoon to bring in documents demonstrating their eligibility to vote.

Democrats have been contacting voters since King County Superior Court Judge Dean Lum ruled Friday that King County must give the party a list of all provisional voters who have been told their votes won't be counted unless they sign new voter-registration cards.

Some 929 provisional voters and about 800 absentee voters either failed to sign the envelopes containing their ballots or used signatures that didn't look like the signatures on their voter-registration cards.

Logan said he is treating voter-signed documents delivered by a political party as no less valid than documents brought in by the voter or delivered through the mail.

The Democrats are off their ever-loving rockers. I voted absentee and I must say, the envelope makes it quite clear that when you don't sign the back before mailing, your vote doesn't count. It's not deep or written in Sanskrit, nor is it illegible or written in Zapf Chancery Zingbats. It's clear as day and yet now under the banner of "anti-voter disenfranchisement" we have people calling around the city like ninnies trying to follow up on voters whose votes shouldn't count.

Nevermind Democratic Party Chairman Paul Berendt's petty display of crocodile tears under the guise of "just wanting to get people the right to vote".

Poppycock.

While I sincerely hope the Republican Party doesn't devolve and become so uncouth, I realize that two can play this game and I sincerely hope everyone is ready for the uphill battle that will ensue should Rossi take this race.

Ballots could come up missing everywhere.

Posted by Ambra Nykol at November 16, 2004 01:51 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Ambra, you have placed in words the deepfelt sentiments and thoughts of this absentee voter. I know darn good and well what the rules are, I complied and for this to happen is just wrong. It should be illegal. Rossi should do SOMETHING - like ban this in the future.

Posted by: Josef on November 16, 2004 01:58 PM
2. Update - I just heard the State Good Old Police (a play on GOP) has just gotten off the ground and is challenging Gregoire's provisional ballots... THANK YOU!

Posted by: Josef on November 16, 2004 02:06 PM
3. Peace, Ambra. While Berendt may parade his affadavits in to much fanfare, the Republicans have been quietly contacting the idiots on our side of the aisle and getting things fixed for them too. In the end it will probably be a wash.

In any case, there is no reason to borrow trouble at this point. The angst can wait one more day, at which point we'll have a better idea whether or not we'll need it. I still suspect not.

Posted by: Nathan on November 16, 2004 02:11 PM
4. The state Democratic Party chairman leading a deligation of voters signatures? What is this? Let only every Democrat vote count?

Like another article said, The Democrats will use the voter list and find out if they voted for Gregoire or not, if they did then they will make sure their vote counts. However if they answer no, then they just tell the voter to have a nice day and leave. Guess what? That person's vote doesn't count! What happened to "Making sure EVERY vote counts"

I would just love to get ahold of these 400 people and ask them some very simple questions.

"If you can sign a affidavite correctly how come you cannot sign a ballot correctly?"

"Can you read the back of the ballot? It says clearly that you signature must be correct, and if you cannot sign it, then you can get two witnesses to sign the ballot."

"Do you honestly know how to vote?"

Posted by: KLRMNKY on November 16, 2004 02:23 PM
5. Boy, it just doesn't seem like it is in the cards for Rossi. This smells like the Gorton/Cantwell vote count again where magic ballots turn up to put the Democrat over the top. Rossi is technically down almost 600 votes now with Grays Harbor issue, so if he does win it won't be by more than a couple of hundred votes, and that's if more ballots aren't found. I am not liking his chances right now.

Posted by: Marc on November 16, 2004 02:29 PM
6. As I suspect they used to say in Chicago, "When the dead vote, Democrats win."

Posted by: Touchstone on November 16, 2004 02:41 PM
7. Goldy just posted this story on www.horsesass.org

Looks like he scooped everything, if it is true:

GOP to sue to disqualify Democratic provisional ballots
by Goldy, 11/16/04, 2:34 pm

The headline says it all.

Presumably, this lawsuit focuses on the absentee and provisional ballots for which the Dems have collected affidavits proving signature matches. I guess winning is more important than discerning the will of the voters.


Posted by: Conspiracy Nut on November 16, 2004 02:43 PM
8. Gregoire is now leading by 196 votes with 21,551 left to go.

Posted by: Marc on November 16, 2004 02:56 PM
9. Snohomish counted their remaining votes it looks like. Is it a surprise that Gregoire gained 38 votes?

Posted by: Marc on November 16, 2004 03:04 PM
10. Look, I'm holding out faith here folks...I called a Rossi win from the get-go and I'm sticking to my guns. Speaking of guns, let's get some and go down and stand over the "officials" as they count ballots.

Posted by: Ambra Nykol on November 16, 2004 03:13 PM
11. Snohomish split 98-98- the 38 vote Gregoire gain comes from Jefferson, 22-60.

Posted by: Jim King on November 16, 2004 03:17 PM
12. face it... you've lost again! ha!

washington is blue and there is nothing y'all can do!

Posted by: washingtonblue on November 16, 2004 03:30 PM
13. No actually King County is blue and there's nothing we can do. Washington is RED.

Posted by: Ambra Nykol on November 16, 2004 03:33 PM
14. So, did Snohomish lose ballots? Seems like they were supposed to have a lot more than 196 ballots left.

Posted by: Brian K on November 16, 2004 03:33 PM
15. No, Snoho had reported 100 left to count, obviously counted a few more than that.

Posted by: Jim King on November 16, 2004 03:38 PM
16. Boy, am I confused or what! I've heard nothing from the Democrats the last couple weeks except how STUPID Republican voters are. We're all dumb hicks who simply swallow some drivel from those wicked, mean-spirited leaders who are duping us because we are such morons. Meanwhile, the intellectually superior Democrats seem to now be doing everything they can to get out the "STUPID" vote. Provisional votes are for people who are too dumb to go to their own polling place, right? People who don't know how to sign their names are uneducated sheep, right? Since these are obviously Republicans, why are the Dems trying so hard to identify them and get their "votes" counted? Could it be that Dems are the party of the dimwitted? There's a story here somewhere.

Posted by: tacomaboy on November 16, 2004 03:38 PM
17. Rossi just picked up 50 votes (160 counted) to close the gap to 146 with 21,391 remaining.

Posted by: Marc on November 16, 2004 03:46 PM
18. Message for the day: "Don't panic."

This message brought to you by the letters D and A, and the number 42.

Posted by: Nathan on November 16, 2004 03:47 PM
19. This is starting to irritate me.

Posted by: South County on November 16, 2004 03:59 PM
20. What's stopping Rossi from declaring himself elected? The moron couldn't wait until official election results to start building a transition team! He should rush to Olympia, push Locke out of his mansion, and take over.

Posted by: bt on November 16, 2004 04:12 PM
21. Well bt, that would be one way to get around the Democrat's attempt at vote fraud that is currently under way.

Posted by: Kevin Shannon on November 16, 2004 04:16 PM
22. Rossi retakes the lead!

Posted by: Marc on November 16, 2004 04:17 PM
23. He did that back in 2003, and has been running the state ever since (see 2003-05 biennial budget)- he just doesn't want to go public until the vote is final.

By the way, any of you aware of the partisan make-up of the Washington State Supreme Court...

Posted by: Jim King on November 16, 2004 04:17 PM
24. Just wake me when it's over.

Oh and bt, it should be noted that early predictions by media were that both Gregoire and Rossi would start assembling their transitional teams as it was known that this election could be drawn out which would leave either candidate little time to get things in order before taking office.

Posted by: Ambra Nykol on November 16, 2004 04:20 PM
25. The King County Court ruling only allowed the Democrats to get affadivits from voters voting with provisional ballots, not absentees:

(The Times):

Some 929 provisional voters and about 800 absentee voters either failed to sign the envelopes containing their ballots or used signatures that didn't look like the signatures on their voter-registration cards.

(The P-I):

A Superior Court judge ordered King County election officials to give Democrats the names of 929 voters whose provisional ballots face rejection over signature inconsistencies. The state Democratic Party sued for that list so it can try to track down those voters and encourage them to appeal the rejection, as Republicans are doing in a number of Rossi-leaning counties.

So, where's the 800 absentees? Exactly. This isn't about absentees, it's about provisional ballots. SoundPolitics needs to stop with the lies and misleading crap.

Posted by: Jenny on November 16, 2004 04:20 PM
26. Jenny, I would expect you to practice good journalism by quoting things in their entirety. That's a nice movie review snippet of the Seattle Times you posted there.

However.

This is both about absentee AND provisional ballots. Don't get it twisted. There's already enough of that going on as we speak.

Posted by: Ambra Nykol on November 16, 2004 04:25 PM
27. Okay, Skagit County just put Rossi back in the lead... And Skagit County just reported 5,300 more votes in the Governor's race, when they had noted yesterday only 2,500 ballots remaining- and they now report 200 more ballots remaining.

That's 3,000 new ballots in a county quite a bit smaller than King County. Do I hear outrage?

Posted by: Jim King on November 16, 2004 04:36 PM
28. I note that King Co. bumped their reporting time to 6 PM.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything fraudulent, but it sure seems like there are head games being played between the counties.

Posted by: Brian K on November 16, 2004 04:42 PM
29. King County pushed back their reporting time because they were waiting for rulings- judicial and administrative. The counties are trying to get their work done, and are not watcging the other counties. Very few are as considerate as King, and actually change the posted "Next Report" time- most just report whenever they get around to it.

Posted by: Jim King on November 16, 2004 04:46 PM
30. I'd say it's highly suspicious (Skagit Co.). But I'd gladly trade the extra couple hundred votes Rossi got out of Skagit for the couple thousand CG got out of King, and extra 500 she stands to gain from the GH Co. fiasco.

The test will be how many ballots King Co. coughs up here in and hour or so.

Posted by: K Shannon on November 16, 2004 04:48 PM
31. Jenny:

So you decided to troll this posting rather than admitting what a dim-witted fool you are in the previous post, where your Democratic drivel was soundly rebuked and debunked? Good for you! Are you French? I only ask because you certainly like to RUN AWAY from a fight!

So how exactly is SoundPolitics lying with misleading crap? That sounds more like a description of YOUR posts. You sure like to edit out anything that doesn't suit your worldview.

The counts from King County today are much more favorable to Dino than previous days.

Don't worry Jenny - soon you'll live in a state with a Republican Governor AND a Republican President!!

Posted by: Larry on November 16, 2004 05:05 PM
32. You know, you all brought this on yourselves. Tax cuts gutted county election offices so that they're left with a bunch of $8/hour idiots counting ballots. So, here we have an election with millions more ballots than expected being handled by an understaffed, underfunded system. Of course it's going to be mismanaged. And by the way, who wrote these election laws?

What a bunch of whiners. It's not like the governor can do anything in this state, anyway, besides pontificating and running the university system further into the ground.

Posted by: dw on November 16, 2004 05:43 PM
33. It's always Tim Eyman's fault...

Posted by: South County on November 16, 2004 06:01 PM
34. "Posted by South County at November 16, 2004 06:01 PM"

Stop blaming Eyman for all our faults. Really. The problem is respectfully US, as in US the voters who don't vote smart and actually weigh the issues and contemplate the evils of Eymanism when some of US voted for Eyman initiatives. Besides, we all know Eyman is a manipulator writ large and was busted for lying to his donors in 2002.

Now, I'm going to put a plug in for www.permanentdefense.org THE anti-Eyman, pro-community group. I want you all to bookmark that website the next time Tim Eyman pops back up. The people there consider their calling watching and fighting against Eymanism, or the reckless belief you can cut taxes regardless of the consequences.

Have a nice night...

Posted by: Josef on November 16, 2004 08:19 PM
35. Josef -

The Tim Eyman's of the world would get nowhere IF the legislature would represent the people instead of their political behinds. It's strange though how Rossi in the legislature MANAGED to balance the budget even with all these so-called "cuts" (allowing the Washingtonions to keep their own money). If Rossi gets in perhaps he can cut the bloated state bureaucracy.

Posted by: Carol P on November 16, 2004 08:51 PM
36. Stop blaming Eyman for all our faults. Really...


You should spend more time online...you might learn to recognize irony when you see it.


Posted by: South County on November 16, 2004 09:10 PM
37. 1) As to "Posted by Carol P at November 16, 2004 08:51 PM" - I am going to respectfully note that the voters have rejected the past four Eyman initiatives. Most notably 864, the 25 percent property tax cut that got the slammer (Why? Go here: http://www.permanentdefense.org/Essays/Essay864Failure.html). There's no popular tax revolt. And now with the arrival of Permanent Defense (www.permanentdefense.org) - Eymanism is dying because the voters know the consequences and good men & women are stepping up to pull the plug. Voters have had enough of Eyman's lies and manipulation. Moreover, you fail to acknowledge that local levels of government has been a favorite target of Eyman's (although I concede that Dino helped put an end to Eymanism - how much is disputable).

2) What do you mean, South County? Could you be a bit less vague? I can't read minds (YET!)

Posted by: Josef on November 16, 2004 10:10 PM
38. Ambra:
I am not a journalist. You don't know me. And you expect me to practice your so-called "good journalism?" I do not think you practice "good journalism." I am commenting on this blog, not making a post. You have already quoted a good length of that article; I'm not going to waste time repeating it. Your criticism is laughable.

"This is both about absentee AND provisional ballots. Don't get it twisted. There's already enough of that going on as we speak."

I suggest you review the court ruling, which is exactly what I'm talking about.

http://www.metrokc.gov/kcscc/final%20order.pdf

Larry:
You're good at name-calling, but clearly not very intelligent. "Democratic drivel"? "French"? I can recognize an idiot when I see one, and people who think Democrats are unpatriotic traitors and believe in a boycott of France aren't really true Americans. They are racist bigots who need to be educated.

Don't lecture me on bias, Larry. That's being ridiculous and you know it (especially coming from a person like you, whose worldview is essentially founded on a principal of hate).

"The counts from King County today are much more favorable to Dino than previous days."

Yeah...and the count from Grays Harbor today was MUCH more favorable than it's ever been.

Posted by: Jenny on November 16, 2004 11:01 PM
39. Jenny;

As to: "You're good at name-calling, but clearly not very intelligent. "Democratic drivel"? "French"? I can recognize an idiot when I see one, and people who think Democrats are unpatriotic traitors and believe in a boycott of France aren't really true Americans. They are racist bigots who need to be educated."

A-MEN. I am a Democrat, so is my father and we're both Dinocrats, too and I can assure you: We love our country, my father served nobly in Vietnam and I've gone toe-to-toe with the statists at Skagit Valley College in my nation's name. But being French is not a race - it's an ethnicity and barely one at that.

Is Larry a bigot - you betcha. He should apologize. And instead of "educated"... how about RIGHT AND WRONG.

Jenny isn't running away and I hate yassholes who say that and, "Speaking of guns, let's get some and go down and stand over the "officials" as they count ballots." Unacceptable. Absolutely unacceptable to be making threats. (Sure, I cussed out some yahoo who came after my Marsha a while back... but I didn't threaten the REAL coward).

That said, why when I scroll over your name Jenny it says, "http://www.gregoire2004.com"? Had to ask. Gotta say from this side of the aisle as a Dinocrat with a heart, you're one of the few guys on your side with balls. I just hope you do a Google News Search of "Gregoire" AND "public records" and reconsider your choice. Again, your courage is admirable.

Yours and goodnight;

Josef

Posted by: Josef on November 16, 2004 11:17 PM
40. "Jenny" coming from the Gregoire website makes one wonder if the Durkans are visiting the blog...

Posted by: Jim King on November 16, 2004 11:46 PM
41. One last run at it: Ambra, you are so full of it. This was NEVER about Absentees and ALL about provisionals! This was about provisional ballots ONLY. I just read the judicial order from Jenny's post. Good, brave girl. Hero of the day. Just picked the wrong guy - so what?

Look, I personally don't like Gregoire. BUT slimey tactics and threats will not result in victory. It is like the old Vietnam oxymoron: Destroying the town to save it. There is no honor, no point in conducting yourself this way. Our men and women in uniform are risking their lives NOT for you to be a bully (Ambra) or a bigot (Larry) or a manipulator (Tim Eyman) - they are doing so in the name of FREEDOM.

Quoting British Prime Minister Blair, "I know one thing. If we were under direct threat, America would be our ally. I know that its people enjoy, as we have seen, a vibrant competitive democracy; and that in America, Hispanics, blacks, Asians and former Europeans live together, worship in their different ways and can rise from the bottom to the top in a manner we could do well to emulate. I didn't agree with Michael Moore's film. But in America he was able to make it and be praised for it. This is called FREEDOM. We are in danger of forgetting these simple truths."
SOURCE: http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page6583.asp
(Damn good speech)

Let us not forget these simple truths. If for no other reason than the fighting men and women defending our rights and our meritocratic democracy... They respectfully aren't fighting for you to bully Jenny, they're fighting for your right to disagree and cast a ballot to voice that disagreement and blog your disagreement.

May God continue to Bless America!

Posted by: Josef on November 16, 2004 11:58 PM
42. Oh and while we speak of PDF links, let us read http://www.metrokc.gov/kcscc/order111604.pdf - a damn good preamble if you ask me.

You can also go to http://www.metrokc.gov/kcscc/ as the action picks up. The judge, Dean S. Lum, seems to have his heart and head firmly in the right place. He wants the list of provisional voters public so that we know they're real people who only voted once, provisionally. I read that ruling throughly.

I think with Republican scrutineers overseeing this alongside Democrat scrutineers - we can have some healthy faith in the process.

Finally, hope Jenny's okay. Got her backside on this one.

Posted by: Josef on November 17, 2004 12:17 AM
43. I support Chris Gregoire for Governor, and I'm not ashamed of that - hence the URL. I do not work for the campaign; I am simply a supporter of her candidacy.

I think the authors of this blog could be more honest and straightforward with their readers.

It's not a democracy without an opposition, something to keep in mind. The idea is majority rule - with minority rights. That's what the Constitution is about.

Posted by: Jenny on November 17, 2004 12:45 AM
44. Jenny pithily wrote from the other side: "It's not a democracy without an opposition, something to keep in mind. The idea is majority rule - with minority rights. That's what the Constitution is about."

A-men. Yes, I defend your right to be here. As Voltaire once wrote, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Now if only Christine Gregoire shared your beliefs and wouldn't withold documents... I blogged about this:

*Another Case for Dino and RMK... MINE (My Letter to the Editor)

*Gregoire's Record on Public Records Laws... And the Case for McKenna!

*Top 5 Reasons Why A Governor Gregoire Is A Bad Idea... (Column)
(Read the top three towards the bottom).

Or you can deny me the blog traffic and instead go to the Seattle Times website:

Gregoire's record mixed on public-disclosure laws
"In her 12 years as attorney general, few issues have caused Christine Gregoire more political grief than her office's failure to comply with the state's public-disclosure laws.
"The state has paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines and fees, and the courts have reprimanded Gregoire when her office, or other state agencies represented by her lawyers, have failed to turn over public records."

Thanks again Jenny. You're a hero for having the balls to stand up for your beliefs. I just happen to respectfully disagree on your assessment.

Posted by: Josef on November 17, 2004 08:35 AM
45. I don't think Judge Lum has his head in the right place...unless the sky in that place is colored brown. He announced he's sad /dismayed that Washington State has reached the status of Florida in 2000, where we expect judges to decide elections.

He's either foolish or naive...I think he's the only judge who's inserted himself into the contest. There's no one else to blame.

Regarding Tim Eyman...I hear him alternatively described as Attila the Hun and irrelevant. He can't be both. For all the griping about the 'harm' he's done, I note he could do none without public support. Why do you think he has that support?

Posted by: South County on November 17, 2004 10:07 AM
46. South County, you obviously didn't read the PDF files of his rulings. The judge was REQUESTED to step into this - he did NOT insert himself, he was INSERT-ED, much emphasis on the ED!

Okay, as to re: "Regarding Tim Eyman...I hear him alternatively described as Attila the Hun and irrelevant. He can't be both. For all the griping about the 'harm' he's done, I note he could do none without public support. Why do you think he has that support?"

Well, I personally take the view that Eyman himself is a manipulative force that pushes these initiatives on the people... BUT in the end THE PEOPLE vote on them. The problem is EYMANISM and the idiots who push that crap...

Eyman having public support? Okay, he got one initiative on the ballot and that one's results are HERE. Initiative 892 is the most rejected initiative of the five direct democratic measures.

Go figure.

Posted by: Josef on November 17, 2004 10:56 AM
47. It's my belief that the judge decides whether to issue a ruling, even have a hearing. The parties don't.

Perhaps you could correct that impression?

Posted by: South County on November 17, 2004 03:13 PM
48. Posted by: South County on November 17, 2004 03:13 PM

Somewhat true, but you don't just tell a STATE political party no without saying why. Not in a situation like this. Respectfully, the burden is on the state parties.

With the recount, I just hope we win that one. My fear is that Gregoire, in already announcing her Transition Chair, may have a trick up its sleeve.

Posted by: Josef on November 17, 2004 10:48 PM
49. Josef, I'm very impressed with your willingness to discuss issues in a civilized way.


I think most Washingtonians expected one or both parties to file in court. What most didn't want was for the court to agree to get involved. There's a fundamental difference.

Posted by: South County on November 21, 2004 10:31 AM
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