December 10, 2004
Some Democrats Won't Give Up the Governor's Office

Until their cold dead fingers are dragged away from it.  That's how I interpret this story.

Even if Republican Dino Rossi wins the hand recount of the state’s extraordinary governor’s race, a never-before-used provision in the state constitution could allow the Democrat-controlled Legislature to hand the election to Democrat Christine Gregoire.

Experts are unsure how to interpret the provision.  But the state Democratic Party says it gives Democrats the ability to contest the results of the election before the Legislature.

The Legislature would hold a trial of sorts, like an impeachment hearing, with lawmakers voting on the final outcome, according to a Democratic Party lawyer.

I should add immediately that the three Democratic legislators who spoke on the record all opposed the idea.  On the other hand, Larry Sabato, who knows a little about politics, thinks it might happen.

I am amazed that the idea was even brought up, since it is hard to think of anything that would infuriate voters more than to cancel their choice for governor, confirmed with three separate counts.

Posted by Jim Miller at December 10, 2004 02:27 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Actually, I say bring it on. If the Dems do that the tidal wave that took Gray Davis out of Cali would seem like ripples in a kiddie pool. Gregorie would be impeached and any Dem leader in the statehouse that pushed the idea would be booted as well.

So yeah, Bring it on!

Posted by: Grey on December 10, 2004 02:36 PM
2. We can see that it would end politics as we know it in Washington State. It wouldn't be the first time the voter's will was stymied, though...we voted against Safeco Field, but got it anyway. We've had initiatives tossed out. King County is challenging the CAO petitions. This is only a little more outrageous than that.


That may be the determining factor for a party whose guiding principal seems to be, "Can we get away with it?"

Posted by: South County on December 10, 2004 02:42 PM
3. That could be "principle..."

Posted by: South County on December 10, 2004 02:44 PM
4. I guarantee that we will never see this reported elsewhere, nor will we see it reported as anything but a good thing in the MSM.

Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, and Gregoire won the three recounts and the Republicans controlled both legislatures... you would see this story on the front page of the ST and PI and leading all the majore news broadcasts and it would reported that the evvvvil Republicans are attempting to steal the election and overturn the will of the people. There would be marches in the streets and protests everywhere... and yet this story is reported as something that should happen because it's a democrat..

gotta love it

Posted by: KLRMNKY on December 10, 2004 02:50 PM
5. It's an interesting scenario, but it's sufficiently unprecedented in American politics (if this has happened elsewhere, we don't hear about it very often) that I'd think most people would recoil in disgust.

Also bear in mind there are a lot of Democrats in the legislature who represent districts that voted for Rossi. For example, the 41st, 45th and 48th L.D.s in King County all handed Rossi a majority. Between those districts in the new legislature there are 3 Democrat Reps. and 1 Democrat Senator. Presumably there are several other Democrats around the state in similar circumstances. How many would vote against a majority of their own constituents?

Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on December 10, 2004 02:52 PM
6. So far the Ds have done everything they have threatened to do; pay for a hand re-count and sue to change the rules. Their lawyer has explicitly threatened to contest this in the legislature. I think Berendt will want to take it that far, particularly if they lose the lawsuit. Gregoire, of course, will claim she knows nothing about it. We are preparing for any eventuality.

Posted by: Chris Vance on December 10, 2004 02:54 PM
7. Here's more fuel for the conspiracy fire: The lawyer representing Sam Reed against the Ds lawsuit is Hugh Spitzer, a card carrying liberal. The gods must be in total hysterics over all this.

Posted by: Steve on December 10, 2004 02:57 PM
8. I honestly can not imagine the Dems being suicidal enough to contemplate this as a real possibility. The best thing for the Dems to do at this point would be to boot Berendt out and replace him with someone who possesses, well... common sense?

Posted by: Dan on December 10, 2004 03:14 PM
9. I am a Pierce Countyian in exile out in the Great Plains (I go to school in Nebraska) who voted for Bush/Rossi/Nethercutt and have been following his campaign for months. If the Democrats take this to the Legislature (and I wouldn't put it past them), what could we possibly do? Take a page out of the Our Ukraine party playbook?

I'd prefer not to have to do this, but if our great state's democracy is upstaged by the so-called Democratic Party, then what choice will we have. I'll be back the 16th for Christmas break. Mr. Vance, if I may be of assistance for the party during that time, my email is just a click away.

Posted by: Doug Taylor on December 10, 2004 03:39 PM
10. If Rossi wins this second hand recount AND the WA Supreme court rejects the Dems case AND the Dems still try to sue again to win this office, I can guarantee I will be marching and peacefully protesting with signs and slogans and I hope that every voter that cares about WA would too.

I've never been in a protest march before, but this would incite me into intense activism.

Who's with me?

Posted by: Jeff B. on December 10, 2004 03:59 PM
11. I think Article III, Section 4, about the Legislature determining election contests, would have to be given effect, and take precedence over the laws the Legislature adopted to give this job to the court system. Since the returns have to be opened in front of a joint session, and since tied elections (hopefully absolute ties, instead of statistical "ties") have to be decided by the members of both houses voting together, it would follow that an election contest would be decided by all the members voting together, rather than the House and Senate voting separately.

That being said, I think that Dem members of the Legislature would be extremely unlikely to vote to reverse the election outcome, unless there was an exceptionally good reason for doing so. At least enough to prevent a reversal. And if the election was successfully challenged, it would be far more likely that a new election would be ordered by invalidating the results, rather than by declaring Gregoire the winner. If that happens, I think Rossi will kick her posterior section by at least 5 percent, if not more.

The only analogous provisions that have been applied (to my knowledge) dealt with election by the legislature in other states when there is not a sufficient majority. For example, in Mississippi, a candidate must win both a majority (over 50%) of the popular vote, and also either a majority or plurality in a majority of the legislative districts. In 1991, Republicans won pluralities for both Governor and Lt Gov, but not majorities. The Dem candidates conceded, and the GOP candidates were elected, more or less unanimously, by the legislature. In 1999, the Dem candidate for Governor got a plurality, but not a majority. The GOP candidate did contest the election, and the Dem candidate was elected by the legislature, mostly along party lines.

However, our state constitution deals with election contests, as opposed to actually electing state officers when requisite majorities of votes have not been met. The voters would be much less happy with a legislator wanting to reject the popular vote winner who was duly elected, than in a Mississippi situation where the state constitution actually calls on the legislature to elect the statewide officer.

Posted by: Richard Pope on December 10, 2004 04:17 PM
12. Jeff, as much as I've ridiculed the jobless hippies that can usually be found protesting and blocking traffic around here, I'd even join you.

Posted by: Chris on December 10, 2004 04:50 PM
13. If we're going to peaceably assemble, let's pick somewhere that irritates liberals. Like in the Bus Tunnel. ;)

(As opposed to the incessant 'let's close I5' protests.)

Posted by: Al on December 10, 2004 06:06 PM
14. Ron Sims favorite bus stop in the tunnel. Oh, wait, he doesn;t ride the bus. Sorry.

Posted by: zip on December 10, 2004 06:11 PM
15. Count me in. Just say when and where. That's right, Zip, Ron Sims has a "driver" that we pay for.

Posted by: CP on December 10, 2004 06:47 PM
16. Thanks for this great site of very informative news concerning the recount in Washington. This is the ONLY site I use to track the count.

We are pulling for Rossi from a small outpost atop a mountain in North Georgia, USA. Never, ever give up when your cause is just!

Posted by: Chuck on December 10, 2004 07:15 PM
17. Thanks for your interest and support, Chuck. Stefan is the best. He's kept us all quasi-sane with this website - where we can learn and vent!

Posted by: CP on December 10, 2004 07:22 PM
18. Well, having been in a few protests before, I'd be happy to throw in. But we may not have to if the count goes the way it's going!

Posted by: Dan on December 10, 2004 07:29 PM
19. Jeff, Count me in!!

Posted by: Michele S. on December 10, 2004 07:59 PM
20. Here is Article III, Section 4 in full:

"SECTION 4 RETURNS OF ELECTIONS, CANVASS, ETC. The returns of every election for the officers named in the first section of this article shall be sealed up and transmitted to the seat of government by the returning officers, directed to the secretary of state, who shall deliver the same to the speaker of the house of representatives at the first meeting of the house thereafter, who shall open, publish and declare the result thereof in the presence of a majority of the members of both houses. The person having the highest number of votes shall be declared duly elected, and a certificate thereof shall be given to such person, signed by the presiding officers of both houses; but if any two or more shall be highest and equal in votes for the same office, one of them shall be chosen by the joint vote of both houses. Contested elections for such officers shall be decided by the legislature in such manner as shall be determined by law. The terms of all officers named in section one of this article shall commence on the second Monday in January after their election until otherwise provided by law."

With due respect to all posters, this type of language is not all that uncommon in state constitutions. The role of House and Senate presiding officers is ministerial in making a declaration and signing certificates and the direction is "shall" rather than "may." "Equal" has to be construed as an exact numerical tie and there is lots of state and federal case law to back that up. Even as a "Hail Mary Pass" by Democrats, the chances of this provision becoming an actual obstacle for Rossi are about as high as Kerry raiding 16 faithless electors from Bush.

Posted by: Mark Rhoads on December 10, 2004 10:31 PM
21. I almost HOPE the Democrat party takes this to the legislature....

It will be the last Democrat legislature for a long, long time.......mark my words...

Posted by: Lee on December 10, 2004 10:36 PM
22. I get a chuckle out of all of you volunteering to march. That would be a sight to see. All of you executives with your bmw's and suits would not know what to do if you actually had to walk in a street and not some protected and enclosed park.

Posted by: jp on December 11, 2004 07:32 AM
23. Hm, I'm surely not an executive and I have surely marched before and would do it again and am no silly lefty.

Posted by: pbird on December 11, 2004 08:45 AM
24. JP. Yeah, it would certainly look foreign because it would be a civilized bunch marching for a real cause.

A lot different than the typical "Battle in Seattle" hippie marches that are usually just a bunch of the Seattle homeless and leftover grunge teens wandering because they think it sounds life fun.

Posted by: Jeff B. on December 11, 2004 09:19 AM
25. The biggest difference between a march supporting Dino and the ordinary 'protest' scene is that the MSN would commit mass suicide before splashing a Dino march on the front page. The next biggest difference is that, unlike the lefties, most Dino supporters work for a living and haven't got unlimited time to go galumphing in the streets with inflatapuppets.

It's ironic that the lefties, who claim to despise American TV programming, are the experts at mounting made-for-TV street disturbances. But the trend was set long ago by perverted MSN editors, who operate on the assumption that they who mounts the biggest or most destructive mob represents the morally correct side of the dispute.

Posted by: Insufficiently Sensitive on December 11, 2004 10:06 AM
26. Hey JP,

FYI - I don't have a BMW. I drive a 1995 truck. Wife drives a Buick.

I walked to school to get my degree, though admittedly, it wasn't through some fancy park.

My hair is cut. I shave each day. I don't stink like some other protestor types because I don't collect the month's rainfall in my dreadlocks.

So far, I've refrained from painting every piece of my body hair black, have avoided placing tattoos on my face, arms, legs, torso and skull. I've even managed to resist piercing my toes, tongue, eyebrows, lips, nose and upper thigh.

I might even be the person next to you in a grocery line, but you wouldn't know it because you think I'm too busy throwing women, children and older people under the city bus.

"Vote Democrat,or we'll insult you."
Great motto.

Posted by: jimg on December 11, 2004 10:45 AM
27. It is pretty easy to poke fun at a bunch of stupid hippies. They are easy targets because did y'all know that combining pot-smoking and Prozac can lead to early Alzheimer's?? Yup...that's the core of the Leftist/Marxist crowd's demise.
Frankly, I don't believe their are any real hippies left around Washington State...it's too expensive. Most of 'em are what I like to call "pretend hippies" or "Hippiecrites". Trust-funders from the East Coast who think a real job is going to the mailbox to get their monthly check from Grandma's estate. Or Californicators who sold their $200,000 home in Berkley or SF for $2.5 million, bought something here for $500,000 and have a couple million left over to allow them the time to deny others opportunities to earn a living.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on December 11, 2004 10:54 AM
28. jp, Just finished execulating, parked the BMW in the protected and enclosed park and hung up the suit; was surprised to read the negativity in your post. Perhaps a brief stint in the working world would put a smile on your face.

Posted by: zip on December 11, 2004 10:39 PM
29. Mr Cynical -

They are NOT "pretend hippies" or "Hippiecrites", okay?? The scientific classification of the breed is "Trustafarians".

JP -

The next time I ride in a BMW will be my first. The next time I wear a suit will be my first since a wedding, funeral, or job interview. And I work a 'white-collar' IT job every day.

I've been to dozens of Grateful Dead shows (the REAL GD, not The Dead) including their last shows in Chicago. I've been to even more Phish and Widespread Panic shows. I've backpacked all over the US and stayed in hostels in many European cities. Protected and enclosed? Sounds like the classrooms where you studied political science and environmental activism.

I voted and volunteered for both George Bush and Dino Rossi. Put that in your bong, puff-puff and pass the stuff, okay? Then go hug a tree.

What lefties don't seem to realize is that you can have peaceful congregations of people to protest and you don't have to take your life (or somebody else's) into your hands by marching out on I-5 and causing even more gridlock that they want to solve by building a dumb-@$$ Monorail.

Peace out.

Posted by: Larry on December 12, 2004 11:48 AM
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