December 15, 2004
Ukraine County Update

My preliminary analysis of the 573 (was 561) (who knows what it will be tomorrow) Ukrainian magical mystery absentee ballots is that they are drawn from precincts that voted 63% Gregoire, 37% Rossi, as opposed to Ukraine County as a whole, which voted 59% Gregoire, 41% Rossi.

UPDATE: I now have more data on the expected impact of the 573 Ukrainian magical mystery absentee ballots. In the machine recount, 95.3% of Ukraine absentee ballots were for one of the major party candidates, and of those, 59.7% went to Gregoire. i.e. if these 573 mystery ballots were selected at random, you would expect for them to add 106 votes to Gregoire's lead

As it turns out, these ballots came from precincts whose absentee ballots gave Gregoire 63.7% of the two-party vote. Thus, we would expect them to add not 106, but 149 more votes to Gregoire's lead.

Oddly Enough!

--

22 more Ukrainian magical mystery ballots have been discovered bringing the total to 595:

20 absentee and two provisional—found in several polling places in the side bins of plastic base units in which polling machines sit, said Bill Huennekens, county election superintendent. All ballots are supposed to be logged on Election Night and returned in a sealed bag to election headquarters, but it didn’t happen with these, he said
--

We also learn from the audit of the DSHS that:

thousands of people who are dead or lack Social Security numbers are getting millions of dollars in benefits
My theory is that this is a simple matter of patronage. As long as these dead people keep voting for Democrats in Ukraine County, the Democrats will continue to pay them!

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at December 15, 2004 09:04 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Not a pretty picture. Rossi's best chance is to find evidence of actual fraud so this King County fiasco can be cancelled.

At least Ukraine gets to vote again. The only suspense left here is how many more screwups will we have to endure before we get King County's "count". The Keystone Cops of vote counting.

Posted by: zip on December 15, 2004 12:23 AM
2. I totally agree with Zip, there is no end to the degree that this election will be the equal to the Ukraine election. It will not be overthrown by the disgusting corruption of King County! I will be first to say that that King County is the nearest equivilant to the Ukraine election I have ever seen. We will be ready to march on Olympia for the correction of this disgusting election. Do not celebrate your disgusting actions too soon, we will see this through to the correct outcome!

Posted by: Greg on December 15, 2004 01:40 AM
3. One of the "no signature on file" absentee voters happens to be Kwame Wyking Garrett, who was the GOP candidate for Leg Dist 37, Pos 1 against Sharon Santos. Garrett got a whopping 12.05% of the vote in this heavily Dem district. Unfortunately for him, his vote wasn't counted (and won't get counted, regardless) in his own race for the state legislature. At least, we think Garrett was our candidate in that race. If his signature really isn't on file with King County Elections, maybe an impostor filed under his name to run in the legislative race?

Posted by: Richard Pope on December 15, 2004 02:37 AM
4. I know things are close, but consider two points. 2% of ballots are going unmarked for governor's race. 2% of ballots are going to the other candidate.

So the 573 ballots may only contain 545 votes or so for Governor's race.

Posted by: Ralph on December 15, 2004 05:17 AM
5. Republicans are following this race in other parts of the country and we are behind you, Greg. You might want to wear orange when you march on Olympia.

Posted by: randy on December 15, 2004 07:46 AM
6. The number is now 595 ballots.

Posted by: South County on December 15, 2004 07:48 AM
7. Dino may want to hire a food tester to make sure nobody slips Dioxin into his food - this is the Ukraine after all.

Posted by: Duane on December 15, 2004 08:09 AM
8. This is the problem with having an all Democrat Elections Board in King County.

They can really do this any way they please, and there's nothing to stop them.

Posted by: Jeff B. on December 15, 2004 08:18 AM
9. Ralph...nice thought, but since these are freshly minted ballots you can bet that enough of them have votes...and the "correct" votes, to steal this!

I live in California and offered a while back to trade our corrupt Secretary of State (Shelley) for yours. I withdraw the offer.

Posted by: Justrand on December 15, 2004 08:19 AM
10. What happens if the ballots are what they say -- uncounted because the signatures were not transferred from an old system to a new system?

Posted by: tom on December 15, 2004 08:30 AM
11. The list starting at "Ch" smells of fraud. Are the ballots put in alphabetical before they are checked? Are they checked by different people? If so, why did the person assigned to A to Ch have no uncounted votes? Was one person assigned CH to Z (odd split)? If there were more than one person assigned to CH to Z it seems odd that they could all miss some votes.

In other words - KC should explain (like we would believe them) why the list starts at CH

Posted by: charlie on December 15, 2004 08:33 AM
12. If (heaven forbid) the unthinkable happens, what does state law say about a recall? Can it happen right a way? how many signatures does it take? etc.

Posted by: charlie on December 15, 2004 08:49 AM
13. King County voters should be hopping mad at their own government. If their legal ballots have not been counted, it is the fault of their own elected officials. They should call for the immediate removal of the entire KC government and all the appointed officials as well. The problem is the process as it is done in KC, not with the process itself. Don't find many bundles of "found" ballots in the other counties.

Actually I'm feeling more and more disenfranchised myself. I voted early, correctly and legally. Now I realize that I could have gone shopping instead, and voted today or tomorrow. Just have to drop that ballot off on a doorstep somewhere, signed or unsigned, registered or not. But wait!! I don't live in KC! What was I thinking? Guess it's a good thing I voted correctly the first time since the do-overs are only allowed in KC.

I'm going to be embarrassed from now on to tell people where I am from. We must be morphing into the laughing stock of the democratic world about now.

Posted by: Rae on December 15, 2004 08:59 AM
14. Stefan, I can appreciate your sentiments and your awkwardness with reality, but to compare King County to the Ukraine is rather laughable. King County is the most populous and most important county in the state and until you and your neocon group realize that and start working to change it, it will remain the same. And I am 100% absolutely sure in my heart and soul that no one from the Grand Ole Warmonger Party every had one of theirs collect illegal benefits or commit the 'frauds' you so laughably alledge. Move ON, chances are improving each hour that the true winner will be Gregory and you must put your energies into something useful.

Posted by: JP on December 15, 2004 09:01 AM
15. Let me help you on that recall question.

Recall proceedings, grounds: RCW 29A.56.110
http://www.leg.wa.gov/RCW/index.cfm?section=29A.56.110&fuseaction=section

Whenever any legal voter of the state or of any political subdivision thereof, either individually or on behalf of an organization, desires to demand the recall and discharge of any elective public officer of the state or of such political subdivision, as the case may be, under the provisions of sections 33 and 34 of Article 1 of the Constitution, the voter shall prepare a typewritten charge, reciting that such officer, naming him or her and giving the title of the office, has committed an act or acts of malfeasance, or an act or acts of misfeasance while in office, or has violated the oath of office, or has been guilty of any two or more of the acts specified in the Constitution as grounds for recall. The charge shall state the act or acts complained of in concise language, give a detailed description including the approximate date, location, and nature of each act complained of, be signed by the person or persons making the charge, give their respective post office addresses, and be verified under oath that the person or persons believe the charge or charges to be true and have knowledge of the alleged facts upon which the stated grounds for recall are based.

For the purposes of this chapter:

(1) "Misfeasance" or "malfeasance" in office means any wrongful conduct that affects, interrupts, or interferes with the performance of official duty;

(a) Additionally, "misfeasance" in office means the performance of a duty in an improper manner; and

(b) Additionally, "malfeasance" in office means the commission of an unlawful act;

(2) "Violation of the oath of office" means the neglect or knowing failure by an elective public officer to perform faithfully a duty imposed by law.

The Washington State Constitution also has this to say on recalls (Article 1, Section 33):

http://www.courts.wa.gov/education/constitution/?fa=education_constitution.display&displayid=Article-01

Every elective public officer of the state of Washington expect [except] judges of courts of record is subject to recall and discharge by the legal voters of the state, or of the political subdivision of the state, from which he was elected whenever a petition demanding his recall, reciting that such officer has committed some act or acts of malfeasance or misfeasance while in office, or who has violated his oath of office, stating the matters complained of, signed by the percentages of the qualified electors thereof, hereinafter provided, the percentage required to be computed from the total number of votes cast for all candidates for his said office to which he was elected at the preceding election, is filed with the officer with whom a petition for nomination, or certificate for nomination, to such office must be filed under the laws of this state, and the same officer shall call a special election as provided by the general election laws of this state, and the result determined as therein provided. [AMENDMENT 8, 1911 p 504 Section 1. Approved November, 1912.]

In both the RCW law and the constitution, the recall process says that it the malfeance, or the thing you want to recall an officer for, HAS to be done while that person is in that elected office.

So, no matter how much you'd like to, you couldn't pin any of what's happening now on her for the purposes of a recall drive. The courts would throw it out.

Posted by: DustinJames on December 15, 2004 09:01 AM
16. Cantwell can't be too happy about King County "finding" these ballots. Rossi v Cantwell with the backdrop of King County election officials stealing an election. I like Rossi's chances, and a Senate seat is a lot more important than the Governor seat for judicial nominees, etc.

Posted by: Marc on December 15, 2004 09:07 AM
17. Forgot to add...

Article 1, Section 34 in the Washington State Constitution

This specifies the amount of signatures that would be needed to initiate a recall drive:

SECTION 34 SAME. The legislature shall pass the necessary laws to carry out the provisions of Section thirty-three (33) of this article, and to facilitate its operation and effect without delay: Provided, That the authority hereby conferred upon the legislature shall not be construed to grant to the legislature any exclusive power of lawmaking nor in any way limit the initiative and referendum powers reserved by the people. The percentages required shall be, state officers, other than judges, senators and representatives, city officers of cities of the first class, school district boards in cities of the first class; county officers of counties of the first, second and third classes, twenty-five per cent. Officers of all other political subdivisions, cities, towns, townships, precincts and school districts not herein mentioned, and state senators and representatives, thirty-five per cent. [AMENDMENT 8, 1911 p 504 Section 1. Approved November, 1912.]

So the answer is: 25% of (last machine recount numbers used here) 2,883,341 = 720,835 valid signatures needed.

That's an awfully high hurdle.

Posted by: DustinJames on December 15, 2004 09:08 AM
18. In the case of the newly "found" votes in King County: Those votes have not been properly stored since election day. It is impossible, I would think, for anyone to show a custody trail for those votes. Without a custody trail, they can't possible be considered valid votes.

I wonder if the GOP is considering a lawsuit to force King County to submit its previous machine recount results rather than the hand-recount. It is very clear that there has been incompetence, at the least, in King County. The events in King County have shaken my confidence in our electoral system!

Posted by: Darrell on December 15, 2004 09:15 AM
19. Where did the 440 new votes in all non-King county coounties come from? Can that help get bigger numbers for a recall? If King County is guilty of finding new ballots illegallly, perhaps the other counties are guilty too? Then the hurdle seems much smaller!

Posted by: tom on December 15, 2004 09:19 AM
20. Marc, I've been saying this for months: The best thing that can happen for the GOP in this election is for Gregoire's team to use their machine to muscle a close victory, leave a bad taste in voters' mouths, and set Dino up for a martyr-run against hapless bystander Maria Cantwell. Add to that a wounded and feckless Gregoire Administration and Democratic legislature raising taxes and cutting services to deal with next year's inevitable budget meltdown, and the GOP goes into the 2008 gubernatorial race looking strong.

The only problem with this is that Dino might quite sensibly not want to be a U.S. Senator. After all, he wants to be President some day, right? And even Rossi should know that a governor has a better shot at the Oval Office than a junior senator.

Posted by: D.J. on December 15, 2004 09:25 AM
21. Just consider this, before you supporters of Gregoire get on your high horse and say there was no shenanigans in King County.

Ballots counted 1st Count: 898,238
Ballots counted 2nd Count: 898,574
Ballots projected 3rd Count: 899,169

King County will have counted 931 more ballots, not votes - ballots - in the 3rd count v the 1st count. Now picture in your head 931 ballots (or almost 1,000 people standing in line at a polling place). That is a lot of ballots to "misplace", don't you think? If it isn't fraud, it certainly is monumental incompetence on the Democrats controlling the King County elections office.

Posted by: Marc on December 15, 2004 09:28 AM
22. tom - I have concluded you are an idiot. You obviously don't understand the difference between "finding" new ballots versus "finding" new votes. KC is finding new ballots almost on a weekly basis. Its a joke.

Posted by: Marc on December 15, 2004 09:35 AM
23. Washington's Next Governor - Christine Gregoire Yanukovych

Posted by: Matt J Kurlander on December 15, 2004 09:36 AM
24. Marc,

I'm sorry you consider me an idiot. I don't consider you an idiot, if that makes any difference.

But you are saying with 100% certainty no other county has found new ballots with this recount?


Posted by: tom on December 15, 2004 09:38 AM
25. I've noticed y'all don't seem to be griping too loudly about the 162 extra votes in Kitsap that netted Rossi a gain of +10...

Posted by: DustinJames on December 15, 2004 09:46 AM
26. Marc,

I apologize...that question was unfair -- since the answer has been in the public realm for awhile. New ballots were found in Whatcom county where folks found "unopened, uncounted ballots that had earlier been accidentally put in a wrong pile."

Am I still an idiot?

Posted by: tom on December 15, 2004 09:46 AM
27. mis-type, 161 votes that is

Posted by: DustinJames on December 15, 2004 09:48 AM
28. I think that if Gregoire wins under these circumstances, a protest would be appropriate. Name a date and time and I'd show up.

Posted by: Nathan Azinger on December 15, 2004 09:52 AM
29. DustinJames -

Kitsap

1st count 119,459 ballots
3rd count 119,443 ballots

They actually counted 16 less ballots in 3rd count v 1st count. To be honest, I don't know how you would actually count less ballots on the 3rd count unless 16 ballots in the 1st count were double counted.

tom - Point taken. I apologize.

Posted by: Marc on December 15, 2004 09:53 AM
30. tom - I agree on your point about Whatcom. Would have been more effective though if Gregoire hadn't won the county by a 50 - 48% margin.

Posted by: Marc on December 15, 2004 10:02 AM
31. Stefan, I can appreciate your sentiments and your awkwardness with reality, but to compare King County to the Ukraine is rather laughable.


That's true...the events in the Ukraine are the result of outside interference, combined with short experience in democratic processes.

King County, on the other hand, suffers from some combination of incompetence and corruption.

It isn't fair to the Ukraine to comapre them with King County.

Posted by: South County on December 15, 2004 10:07 AM
32. This news is so disgusting, I think we need some levity. I'm listening to the Portland, Oreg.- area traffic reports on the radio. I hear one of the announcers say, "There's a pooch on I-205, so be careful!"

I see, in my mind's eye,"There's a putsch on I-205, so be careful!"

I think, "Just what Ukraine County needs!!!"

Do these people have no shame???

Posted by: Mac on December 15, 2004 10:09 AM
33. Dustin and other Democrats,

The Kitsap votes that went for Rossi were ballots had been rightly secured during the entire countiing period as they should have been. The reason why they were not counted in the first two counts is that the optical scan reader machines did not pick up faint pencil lines where voters had used the wrong writing implement to make a mark dark enough for the scanners to read.

There's a big difference between that and finding ballots in the side bins of the counting machines and other unsecured places. Especially in such large numbers. One could understand a ballot here or there, but 600! That's just amazing. How can King County prove that all of these newly "found" ballots were not placed there by soomeone who wanted to sway the election, after Nov. 2nd?

Ron Sims and Dean Logan have to go. If nothing else, there's been gross mismangement of the elections process in King County.

I believe that an independent and careful review of all ballots after this election will also show that there was a lot of fraud involved.

If she wins, Gregoire will be Governor of Ukring County only. The rest of WA is not going to forget this in 2006 or 2008.

Posted by: Jeff B. on December 15, 2004 10:19 AM
34. Marc

Thank you.

Posted by: tom on December 15, 2004 10:21 AM
35. The rest of Washington has almost always been ruled by us in King County anyway, since it is the most populous county. And being a populist state... majority rules.

I haven't heard about the epidemic growth in Euphrata or Quincy lately...

I doubt I'll be seeing any sort of 80 story skyscraper in Index anytime soon.

I'd be in favor of letting you all secede. Heck, hasn't there been an ongoing effort to chop the eastern half of the state off into it's own state of "Lincoln" or "Columbia"?

Posted by: DustinJames on December 15, 2004 10:25 AM
36. We're heading from Pomeroy (Garfield County where there were NO additional ballots found) to Seattle for Thursday-Saturday. Does anyone know of any Rossi Count the Real Votes Rallies during that time period in the Everett - Olympia area? If so, can you respond here? We'd like to go as well as bring our politically interested 11 year old.

Posted by: john gordon on December 15, 2004 10:37 AM
37. Washington elects leftists--and gets Soviet-style elections. I'm not surprised.

The Republican party needs to get a court order to stop the counting of the 595 new so-called "ballots" now. The Supreme Court
held that they were invalid. Only Democrats quoted in the PI said they were valid.

Actually, you people in Washington elected Locke and Cantwell and McDermott and Murray--so you really proved long ago that you deserve this crap. You drove away the Boeing brass, and you will say goodbye someday to Microsoft and Starbucks, too.

Posted by: FedUpWithThis on December 15, 2004 10:37 AM
38. The only issue to me about King County is that it appears to be far more diligent than almost every other county in actually trying to count every vote. A handful of other counties have discovered uncounted ballots. To me, virtually every county should have had dozens, if not hundreds, of them (depending on the county’s size, of course). One example of the obvious disdain for getting the count right would of course be Yakima. In the machine count they reported no change something that I personally thought was absolutely impossible. Now in the hand count, they show 55 changes. Better and more diligent, but the total error rate statewide, to date, of 440 vote changes out of about 850,000 votes recounted still appears to be way too low. So Republicans who complain about King County being diligent in its effort should really be yelling and screaming about the counties that Rossi leads in for not caring at all about finding all of the votes that people cast. If Gregoire ends up on top it’s really because the GOP counties don’t care about voters and voting while the Democratic counties do.

Posted by: Nelson on December 15, 2004 10:39 AM
39. Re: recall. The recall effort should be against King County elected officials. That is where the mal/mis feasance is occurring.

Hurdle isn't so high, now, is it?

Gregoire may like what she is seeing, but she has no direct effect on the Ukrainian ballot-finding exercise. She's probably embarrassed. After all, she was the AG, wasn't she? She must have some respect for the law, mustn't she?

Posted by: Mac on December 15, 2004 10:40 AM
40. If Greg-gore becomes governor, she will be recalled. The "malfeasance" is colluding with people who committed electoral fraud to put her in office. No problem.

Posted by: FedUpWithThis on December 15, 2004 10:42 AM
41. If Greg-gore becomes governor, she will be recalled. The "malfeasance" is colluding with people who committed electoral fraud to put her in office. No problem.

Posted by: FedUpWithThis on December 15, 2004 10:42 AM
42. Actually, I think it would be more appropriate to just cut out Ukraine County and make it it's own State. The remainder of WA is relatively sane, on balance, and would be better off without you.

That way, all you hippie leftist types could enact whatever lunacy into law that you like. And the rest of us would have a great time watching the freak show and laughing as you plunge into marxist economic oblivion.

Or, you could just move to Canada. I'll buy you a plane/bus ticket - just promise to never come back, please.

Posted by: Kevin S on December 15, 2004 10:43 AM
43. Nelson - King County "cares" about counting their votes so much they supposedly didn't count almost 600 ballots in the 1st or 2nd count? To me, it shows they care the least about accurate counts if they keep finding more ballots. If a county cared about counting the votes, they would get it right in the 1st count, or at least VERY close.

Posted by: Marc on December 15, 2004 10:44 AM
44. One does not need to go to the Ukraine to learn how to steal an election when the Daley machine in Cook County, IL has sufficed for Democrats for all these years. I would not be at all surprised to see the Cook County vote-stealing methodology posted on the walls of all King County precincts. They are clearly following those time-honored traditions of voter fraud to the letter.
Doug B

Posted by: Doug Burr on December 15, 2004 10:48 AM
45. This is electoral fraud, not a matter of counting votes. All the votes were already counted and re-counted. The new ballots are void.

Please stop arguing about counting votes. Democrats don't care about votes, or counting votes. They care about stealing an election--or, to be more precise, seizing power, like Castro did in Cuba.

Posted by: FedUpWithThis on December 15, 2004 10:49 AM
46. From the King5 story regarding the found ballots:

"Two members of the federal election assistance Commission will be in King and Snohomish counties Wednesday to observe the ongoing manual recount of ballots. The commission was established after the problems with ballot counting that occurred in Florida in the 2000 presidential election."

I wonder if one of these two Fed observers will be Jimmy Carter? He did a good job of white washing the corrupt elections in Venezuela that allowed Hugo Chavez to keep his dictatorship there. I see no reason why he can't help the Democrats in King County do the same.

Posted by: Jeff B. on December 15, 2004 10:55 AM
47.
The remainder of WA is relatively sane, on balance, and would be better off without you.

Right, and you'd have the ever so sane and balanced Ellen Craswell as governor.

*Shudders*

Posted by: DustinJames on December 15, 2004 10:55 AM
48. Stefan - Are there any protests planned at the Ukraine elections board? If you hear of one, please post. Then we can pass the word along. Your site is best one to get this out! Thanks.

Posted by: CP on December 15, 2004 10:56 AM
49. SEATTLE -- The race for Washington governor could rest on the decision today by the three-member King County Canvass Board in Seattle.

The board is deciding whether to add 595 ballots that elections officials said mistakenly went uncounted until now.

The ballots could be added to the hand recount now under way. With 32 of 39 counties reporting, Republican Dino Rossi has a net gain of 64 votes over Democrat Christine Gregoire.

The seven remaining counties have about 70 percent of the nearly 2.9 million votes in the state.

Rossi said the discovery of uncounted ballots in King County should be investigated, calling it too much of a coincidence. Rossi won the original count in the Washington governor's race by 261 votes. He won the machine recount by 42.

Christine Gregoire said the late discovery of ballots in King County shows the system is working. She said the whole purpose of the recount is to find mistakes and correct them.

http://www.kirotv.com/politics/3999346/detail.html

Posted by: Dan on December 15, 2004 10:57 AM
50. well, I suppose its impertinant of me to post, since I am not living in the most "important" county in the state..yeah, that county with the massive traffic jams, the high crime rate, the pollution, the dirty city look, and the prosperous drug scene.....yeah, that county...

that county that couldn't do a thing if it weren't for the rest of the state supplying our tax dollars to build their sports stadiums, and ferries...

but whatever....people in the rest of the unimportant parts of the state live where they live because they want to, like to, and are relatively safe in doing so...

but , as to the new ballots and the ideas of sims and logan losing jobs....who are you people kidding?

this is a planned corruption of our election and these two will probably be promoted...

hope Sims doens't think about state wide office again...

hope Logan never has to seek real world employment...

I agree that the "new" votes were not in the chain of command and should not be counted at all...

its more than conincidence that the King county, the most important county that it is, is the one finding these ballots....

there will be a price to pay for this....

Posted by: lee on December 15, 2004 10:58 AM
51. Dustin...I can assure you that Ellen Craswell is no further right than the 20 year tyranny of Gardner-Lowry-Locke is to the left. The rest of us have been 'shuddering' for quite a while now, so maybe it's your turn for a change.

Posted by: Kevin S on December 15, 2004 11:06 AM
52. Personally, I'd rather have someone spend a couple more dollars of my taxes then shove "God's plan for Washington State" down my throat.

And I'm a Christian for goodness sake, but I don't enjoy having religion forced on anyone.

She was a loon.

Posted by: DustinJames on December 15, 2004 11:10 AM
53. '96 governors race w/o King County numbers

Gary Locke (D) 806,208
Ellen Craswell (R) 699,404

Just sayin'.

Posted by: Jay on December 15, 2004 11:14 AM
54. Everyone should click over to the PullOnSuperman'sCape blog and check out Emcee's post regarding why the Supreme's Ruling does indeed apply to the 561, I mean 577, I mean 595 newly "found" ballots.

http://tinyurl.com/3omxd

Posted by: Jeff B. on December 15, 2004 11:17 AM
55. At King% this morning:

The King County canvassing board decides Wednesday afternoon whether 595 disputed ballots should be included in the recount for Washington's governor. 22 more uncounted ballots were found late Tuesday; the 595 ballots could be enough to reverse Dino Rossi's lead over Christine Gregoire, which stands at 106 votes.

Wouldn't this afternoon be a good time for a rally???? Complete with orange scarves, headbands, armbands, balloons, etc.

Posted by: Mac on December 15, 2004 11:20 AM
56. Yes Mac it would. Is anyone in touch with the ROssi campaign - one might be planned - let's join. Please post.

Posted by: CP on December 15, 2004 11:23 AM
57. To the poor, deluded DustinJames:

If you want to donate money to the state, go right ahead. Make it your favorite charity. But you've never done that, of course.

And what do you mean about Christian stuff being "forced" on people? Are you being forced against your will to attend church? No? Then what Christian teachings don't you like, exactly?

I bet I can guess which one it is!

Posted by: FedUpWithThis on December 15, 2004 11:24 AM
58. We're getting a lot off topic, but I'll respond anyway:

"If you want to donate money to the state, go right ahead. Make it your favorite charity. But you've never done that, of course."

Actually I have, but that's another story.

"And what do you mean about Christian stuff being "forced" on people?"

I was referring to Ellen's prophetic (pathetic) campaign slogan that she had "God's plan for Washington State".

Personally, I wouldn't want anyone to solely use their personal religious belief's to devise some plan that is supposedly good for the whole of Washington.

Similarly, I would never want "Allah's Plan for Washington State" or "Zeus's plan for Washington State".

But, if she was elected at that point in time, I would have been FORCED to accept her demi-Godly plan to forcibly inject religion into aspects of the public sector, as was outlined in her plan.

I am not forced to go to Church, which is why I haven't gone in years. Religion to me is a private spiritual matter, I don't need a church or a government to prod me along.

Posted by: DustinJames on December 15, 2004 11:33 AM
59. Call it Kiev County.

Posted by: Polish Immigrant on December 15, 2004 11:53 AM
60. PROFANITY ALERT!

Goldy's blown a gasket over at his blog. He's convinced that there's nothing wrong or at all suspicious about finding a whole bunch of ballots 40+ days after the election.

I think he's really worried about the possibility that someone in a position that can make a difference will disqualify these ballots and eliminate the last chance that Gregoire has to create circumstances that would lead to a win.

Posted by: Jeff B. on December 15, 2004 12:06 PM
61. Dustin, when a person fills a post or an office, they bring whatever spiritual beliefs they hold with them, as we are each only one entity. Locke brought his anti-religious, communist bent with him - and it has been shoved down my throat. I'm ready for something different, and CG certainly does NOT represent change.

Posted by: Julie on December 15, 2004 12:09 PM
62. Gregoire is a chruch going woman. I can't speak for the Locke's, since I do not personally know of their personal religious affiliation.

And "Communist"? Are you referring to the often mis-substituted "Socîalist"? Neither candidates are even close to either term. I've lived in Eugene, Oregon, and visited many times to San Francisco. THERE you will find many people who truly are Socîalist.

Posted by: DustinJames on December 15, 2004 12:20 PM
63. Lot's of comments about how Logan has really turned things around from what they were before he took over.

"Darn good" is not good enough for horseshoes, hand grenades and close elections.

Logan's organization has made a lot of sloppy, obvious mistakes such as totals of supposedly secured ballots that don't match from one night to the next morning and finding a significant number of ballots left in catch basins of vote counting machines, etc.

Someone has to take responsibility for these mistakes. Logan must go, and the Legislature is going to spend a lot of time making Sam Reed's good process a lot better. For as good as Sam's process has been for many counties, it's clearly not strict enough to make King County Elections results credible with voters in a close election.

Posted by: Jeff B. on December 15, 2004 12:26 PM
64. Sound Politics is mentioned as a "far-right" blog in today's People's-Izvestia (P-I) - what great publicity! Joel Connelly's op-ed praises the Democrats' "new backbone" as they collect the newly found votes they need to steal the election.

Posted by: Rick on December 15, 2004 12:28 PM
65. It should be called Leningrad. We've got the statue, the attitude, and the motto 'Fremont: Center of the Universe'.

Why do the '595' votes have different explanations of when and how they were found - when they had to be found PRIOR to the lawsuit (the names are on the list of 1500)?

Posted by: Al on December 15, 2004 12:39 PM
66. Why isn't anyone talking about the attempt to "fix" the now 1,555 ballots in UkraineCo?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/local/politics/webrejectedballots14.html

If this is legal, then what aren't ALL counties required to recanvass ALL rejected ballots? Isn't this specifically against yesterday's WA Supreme Court ruling as well as teh SCOTUS Bush v. Gore ruling?

Posted by: Jim V on December 15, 2004 12:46 PM
67. You guys slay me! "Ukraine County!" Yuk yuk!

"Steal the Election!" Ha ha!

"Leningrad!" Tee hee!

I always know to come to Republican websites for the finest in repartee.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 12:50 PM
68. King County should be renamed Cook County in honor of hizzoner: Richard J. Daley

Posted by: RICK on December 15, 2004 01:02 PM
69. Ursula. Late to the party, but at least you're here, huh?

...and no, we've yet to slay anyone. Stay tuned.

Posted by: Julie on December 15, 2004 01:04 PM
70. Stefan--
Does anyone really believe Larry Phillips just happened to check to see if his vote had been counted??? That he was "concerned about his voting record"? Give me a break!!!!!!!! Someone tipped him off! Why didn't he just addmit it. I tried to give Dean Logan every benefit of the doubt...no more.

LOOK AT THE SECRETARY OF STATE WEBSITE. LARRY PHILLIPS HAS 2 VOTER REGISTRATION CARDS ON FILE WITH 2 VERY DIFFERENT SIGNATURES. LOOK AT THE L'S!! HIS BALLOT NEEDS TO BE CAREFULLY SCRUTINIZED AS DOES HIS SINATURE...AND THE POSTMARK FROM WHERE IT WAS MAILED.

WHY IS DEAN LOGAN IN SUCH A HURRY TO HAVE THESE 592 BALLOTS COUNTED???? WHY DOESN'T HE WAITED UNTIL THE VERY END OF THE RECOUNT PROCESS??
Write this down...I'll tell you why...
Because they want these ballots comingle with the other 900,000 ASAP so they cannot be identified in the future. I have personally observed 1 County's recount. They did a fabulous job...but saw firsthand the opportunity for human error (intentional & unintentional). Other Auditors are extremely concerned about the integrity of this Washington election. If they had done what King County has done, they would expect to be recalled. Logan will likely get a promotion!!
The Sims Kingco machine is alive and cookin'.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on December 15, 2004 01:10 PM
71. Ding...Ding....Ding....we have a WINNER!!!

yes, Mr. Cynical....you are right to ask about the happenstance of why suddenly extra ballots are being found, and why the IMPORTANT county of King wants them washed in with the rest...

there is a foul odor coming from the IMPORTANT county, and it ain't just the dirty streets and harbor.....

but,alas, who are we to question the IMPORTANT county anyway...we're just the peasants serving the KING ...

revolution coming folks...revolution coming....

Posted by: lee on December 15, 2004 01:28 PM
72. what people arent saying is that the washington state race was won (by the GOP) by only a handful of votes after the washington supreme court (no doubt pressured by the Republicans) threw out over 500 votes.
about stealing an election, how can anyone jump on the democrats an say they are stealing an election after what the republicans did in 2000 and are currently doing in states such as ohio and florida.

Posted by: mlh on December 15, 2004 01:32 PM
73. Is there any wonder why Seattlegrad has a statue of V.I.Lenin?

Posted by: RICK on December 15, 2004 01:32 PM
74. I'm sort of wondering now...how does everyone feel about Conyers' allegations about voting irregularities in Ohio? http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/04/12/images/ohblackwellrespfollowup121404.pdf Pretty mad about that?

What's with the inferiority complex? King County is the largest, most prosperous county in the state, by far. King County IS more important by any standard than Spokane County, and Spokane County IS more important than Columbia County. Is this somehow controversial?

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 01:37 PM
75. Seattlegrad?... You mean New Kiev?

Posted by: Matt J Kurlander on December 15, 2004 01:43 PM
76. mlh:

Get it straight: Gore TRIED to STEAL the election in 2000. The United States Supreme Court stopped him. The Dems are TRYING to STEAL the election in Washington.

Republicans presumptively own all public offices, and Democrats can only take them through theft.

Now that we have that out of the way, in my unpopular view, no one is trying to steal anything from anybody, in Florida or in Washington. We have a close election, and both sides jockey to collect and count the votes favorable to them, and not count the votes favorable to the other side.

Both Washington and Florida were/will be decided by the law, as it should be in an orderly society. I'll live with the results without complaint in Washington, just as I lived with the results in Florida.

But some people (Dems and Reps both) can't deal with law and messy processes - someone's trying to steal, cheat, defraud. Crybabies all.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 01:44 PM
77. Oh Christine, you are just sooooo enlightened!

Thank you for gracing this humble blog with your rapier-like wit and sublime intellect.

How we ever got by without your snotty, condescending guidance will forever be a mystery.

Posted by: Kevin S on December 15, 2004 01:56 PM
78. What is strange about Larry Phillips being concerned about his voting records? Shouldn't everyone be?

The ballots won't be comingled, dimwit.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 01:57 PM
79. Thanks Kevin S. Glad to be here.

Care to try some snotty condescension on me sometime?

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 01:59 PM
80. Whatcom county in:

Newly minted ballots in Whatcom county give Dino an exta 6 votes overall on his lead.

Posted by: DustinJames on December 15, 2004 02:01 PM
81. Funny how 42 days after the election, King County just happens to come up with just the right number of ballots to tip the balance to Christine Yanukovych, but I am sure that's just a coincidence.

Posted by: Matt J Kurlander on December 15, 2004 02:03 PM
82. Matt J Kurlander:

1. Why wouldn't they come up with more than they need? 700 would give a nice comfortable margin.

2. Wouldn't it be pretty easy to determine whether the ballots were in fact manufactured in the last 42 days?

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 02:08 PM
83. If Seattle is subtracted from King County, the balance went to Rossi. Here in Southeast King County, we are quite conservative. We were the birthplace of Cedar County.

Posted by: South County on December 15, 2004 02:12 PM
84. Does anyone know if the local Democrats have a rantfest blog like this one?

If not, why do you think that is?

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 02:13 PM
85. I'm all the way in Maine and am observing the goings on in King County with revulsion. This is outright theft, chicanery, stealing, whatever you want to call it. You have crooked Democratic hack election officials "discovering" ballots at the most convenient times.

I sincerely hope the Washington State GOP has some sort of game plan, because right now, I don't see it. They seem content to just bend over and take what these crooks are giving out, and that's very disappointing.

Posted by: Jeffrey on December 15, 2004 02:15 PM
86. Christine - if you want lefty rant, try horsesass.org

You'll get all the bolshevism you can handle there.

Posted by: Kevin S on December 15, 2004 02:25 PM
87. Harhar! You Republicrats and Demicans want it both ways! Face it, you are both election thieves who will stoop to the lowest level to secure your party's ascent. And then you turn around and complain and invoke "Democracy" when the other side steals a page from your book.

Two-party politics are so corrupt that there is really no way of knowing WHO won in Washington or Florida or Ohio or anywhere else. From machine-rigging to bussing in homeless people across state lines to corrupt judges on both sides to bogus challenges to whispered misinformation to unneeded and costly recounts....

You both deserve the miserable government that you have. Thank god I'm Canadian and will be moving back in a few months.

Posted by: Sletan on December 15, 2004 02:33 PM
88. Thanks again, Kevin S.

But I wasn't looking for bolsheviks, I was looking for Democrats. I'll keep looking.

I'm still waiting for my dose of snotty condescension.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 02:33 PM
89. Sletan, are you single? I have some friends who might want to meet you.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 02:35 PM
90. This is kind of fun, having a celebrity here. Christine made her name in "The Little Mermaid" She was very large, dressed in black and her name was Ursula. How special that you've chosen to hang out here. Perhaps you'll learn something.

(and if not, I will certainly enjoy reading your very entertaining posts!) Did Stefan hire you to post here?

Posted by: Julie on December 15, 2004 02:39 PM
91. Hi Julie -

I never saw "The Little Mermaid," so the reference is beyond me - I just rent Michael Moore movies and radical lesbian pornography.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 02:42 PM
92. Democrats, Bolsheviks, birds of a feather, they are. (Hint for Christine: that means they are the same)

Sletan - have fun in your one party rule sorry excuse for a country. Don't let the door hit your bum on the way out. Please don't come back.

Posted by: Kevin S on December 15, 2004 02:47 PM
93. Christine, if you're looking for left-wing ranting, I'd try the P-I.

Posted by: South County on December 15, 2004 02:54 PM
94. Kevin S.:

Really, can't you do better than that? At least Ukraine County was vaguely topical.

And no, you're incorrect, the phrase "birds of a feather" is used when things (or more generally people) are similar, not identical. The whole phrase is "bird of a feather flock together" meaning birds of a single species. Which leads me to wonder if Democrats hang out with bolsheviks. I'm very confused now.

What don't you like about Canada? Let me guess, you don't like France, either, or Germany, or any other country in Europe. Give me Tennessee or Yakima - that's the heart of civilization, and everyone else is a dirty bolshevik.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 02:55 PM
95. Thanks, South County, but I was looking for a webblog, not a newspaper. Last time I picked up the PI, I read a George Will column, so you sure are right about the left wing ranting.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 02:58 PM
96. The obvious question about the 20 (of 22) recently found absentee ballots is why would they have anything to do with a polling place at all? Don't you guys mail those back directly to the election board? Why would they end up in plastic bins that were at the various precincts on election day?

Posted by: Molon Labe on December 15, 2004 03:00 PM
97. This site is hiliarious. It won't let you type the word for bolshevik that starts with "s" because it contains the name of a prescription drug advertised on television.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 03:02 PM
98. Kevin,

Now who has the one party government?

I don't, in fact, like the current Canadian government. But I'm not talking about partisan ideology here. I'm talking about corruption and an appalling lack of standardization and structural integrity in your electoral system. Have at the ideology of any of Canada's political parties. I might even agree with a point or too. But at least we don't have campaigns and electoral systems that make those in banana republics seem like paragons of integrity.

You've got to live with your government, not me. You yourself are on here to rant, so you must not like something. And the Democrats I know are as virulent as you. You and your "Bolshevik" crap and the Demos and their silly "Fascist" crap.... Don't you guys realize how facile you look?

No. You don't. Good fuckin' lord.

Posted by: Sletan on December 15, 2004 03:03 PM
99. Jeffrey:

WSGOP does have a gameplan. However, it is difficult to push forward with lawsuits about the ballots since Rossi has been elected Governor. They cannot at this point prove that he has been harmed by the Democrat's shenanigans.

As things tighten up and if and when those 573 mystery ballots are put into the mix, the GOP will start rolling out the lawsuits just like the Democrats.

Christine G:

Could you please explain what you mean by "most prosperous county in the state"?

Your statement that King County is more important "by any standard" than Spokane County reminds me of a little quote:

"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall." --Proverbs 16:18

King County is no more important than any other county. If you believe that it is, then you must accept that Washington State is not very important and that Texas and Florida, among others, are more important and will always receive more favorable treatment.

Ready to admit that you are low on the totem pole?

Posted by: Larry on December 15, 2004 03:04 PM
100. Wow. Fuckin slips by but socia1ist is blocked.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 03:07 PM
101. Ursula:

www.democraticunderground.com

where else would demon rats hide, but underground?

Posted by: Julie on December 15, 2004 03:15 PM
102. Hi Larry -

Did you have the chapter and verse of the quote memorized, or did you need to look it up?

King County is not at the top of the totem pole, no. I think New York and California are more important than Washington, and probably Texas as well. I have no problem with that. Why should I?

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 03:16 PM
103. Julie, please try to understand my request.

I wondered if there was a local webblog for democrats similar to this one. Something at least focused on Washington State. I can find DemocraticUnderground, Buzzflash, MediaMatters, and Democrats.com on my own. I am not looking for a newspaper. I'm not looking for Dan Rather or Wolf Blitzer. I'm not looking for AirAmerica. I'm not looking for a movie or grafitti.

I am looking for a WEBBLOG that covers LOCAL politics from a Democratic perspective.

Since I never saw "The Little Mermaid" I will assume the comparison is to Ursula Andress.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 03:21 PM
104. Christine G:

I asked you a question: Could you please explain what you mean by "most prosperous county in the state"?

Do you have a problem following directions, much like Democrats do when they fill out their ballots?

To answer yours: I did need to look up the chapter and verse. Thanks for asking such a meaningless question!

I never said you should have a problem with thinking that certain states/counties are more/less important. Personally, I think that a harbinger of a shallow mind, that's all.

Posted by: Larry on December 15, 2004 03:25 PM
105. Thanks for the clarification Christine. You parse words almost as well as Bill Clinton, but without the charm. You should consider law school, if you are not already a lawyer.

As for those Cannucks and Euros, they are just mad that we put an end to the sweetheart deals they had with Saddam. They'll get over it.

I also urge D's such as yourself to keep insulting people in places like Yakima and Tennessee. That way we will never have to worry about another Democrat ever becoming President again.

And wow, did we get off topic or what?

Posted by: Kevin S on December 15, 2004 03:26 PM
106. I'm sorry I ignored that part of your post. I noticed the comment about pride and about the notion that I had to accept that Washington is less important than Florida, and gave a response.

I thought that "most prosperous" was self-explanatory. However, I meant that it generates the largest amount of income. I imagine that it is most prosperous on a per capita basis, but I would need to look it up.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 03:31 PM
107. Kevin S:

I didn't know the Canadians had a cut of the oil for food scandal, but I'll take your word for it. Is that why you don't care for the entire country?

I hadn't realized I had insulted Yakima and Tennessee.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 03:34 PM
108. Christine G: I must admit I am impressed that you even used the words 'Per Capita' in your answer. I know what you meant, but yes, you would have to look it up before making that statement. Otherwise, might makes right and the big guys rule just because they're bigger, not because they're 'better.'

I hope these posts have contained just enough condescension to suffice. I'm outta here.

Posted by: Larry on December 15, 2004 03:48 PM
109. Hi Christine. You implied that places like Tennessee and Yakima lacked culture in your usual condescending way. The elitist attitude drips from each and every one of your posts.

My main issue with Canadia is their lack of cooperation with the Iraq war. They think this will exempt them from terrorism somehow, apparently having forgotten that the Islamists are still mad at them for helping us in Afghanistan. They should hope that they won't need our help anytime soon.

Also, any nation as obsessed with hockey as they are can't be quite right, and their beer tastes skunky.

I don't know if they were in on the oil for food scandal, but certainly many Euros were. My error on that one - I should have distinguished them from the Euros on that issue.

Posted by: Kevin S on December 15, 2004 03:52 PM
110. Larry -

No where did I say or imply that "might makes right." I hope you're outta here because you're rushing off to your logic class.

Kevin S:

Canadian beer is pretty weak. Why isn't it just Canada's choice to oppose the Iraq war? As it turned out, there were no WMDs. So, wouldn't that be a reasonable basis for a sovereign nation to decline to join the "coalition"? It is a legitimate decision, isn't it?

Ok, so I'm condescending to Yakima and Tennessee. Small town life has virtues, I'm sure, but high culture and cutting edge industries are seldom among them.

I'm condescending when I note this, and yet conservatives from little towns will bash the French, the Germans, New York City, and every center of wealth and culture on the planet as a bunch of corrupt, socia1ist, spineless leeches. You may find my take on it rude, but to suggest that Tennessee has the correct political and economic remedies for this world and that New York, London, and Paris don't is laughable - but that is exactly what I hear from the red state/red county people. It makes them sound backward, because they are elitist about their insularity.

Posted by: Christine G on December 15, 2004 04:10 PM
111. Hi Christine. I'll give you the last word on that one...we could go on like this ad nauseum with neither of us convincing the other of anything.

Thanks, though, for the spirited discussion. I always enjoy a little hardball political combat.

Chat with you some other time, hopefully.

Have a nice evening :)

Posted by: Kevin S on December 15, 2004 04:30 PM
112. Christine provides a classic example of the TOTALLY STUPID blather that is a substitute for "thinking" of all Liberals. MOST of them are also TOTALLY EVIL monsters. (More than likely she does not even believe what she says). If she does, she will change tomorrow when she decides she wants to be paid again!

Oh, sorry! The pay-offs are on hold until January, you say! Yeah, Tell me another funny one!

Posted by: leaddog2 on December 16, 2004 10:05 AM
113. Funny to be looking at this from Florida, (and to boot, I was raised in Tennessee!).

Perhaps it was in Tennessee that the basic techinque was developed: As a young man in the 1930s and 40s, my father worked for the Democratic political machine in Memphis.

On Election Day his job was to be driven from precinct to precinct to vote the dead people, and he was so skilled at this that he picked up the nickname "Tombstone O'Leary*"

The stories were confirmed many times by his buddies that drove him around, the Memphis police!

Regards from Florida

(*last name changed)

Posted by: John on December 28, 2004 12:27 PM
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