Yesterday, suspecting that the re-recount in King County had become a universal joke, I tried out just the punch line at a local Safeway and a local McDonald's. In each case, I just said, with no set up line, that I hoped they had looked for any stray ballots; in each case I got a chuckle.
And that was before this revelation, that King County may have "misplaced" 162 absentee ballots, in addition to all the others they have misplaced.
King County election officials will enter a locked "cage" in a warehouse this morning to look for a plastic mail tray they believe contains up to 162 misplaced absentee ballots.
Elections Director Dean Logan said the ballots, like 573 other ballots that were improperly rejected, were set aside because workers couldn't find voter signatures that corresponded to them.
But unlike the other ballots, these apparently were left behind and forgotten.
Could we forget to pay the person who did this — until they quit?
It's drastic, but I can see the sense in Ralph Munro's proposal that we do the election over.
Cross posted at Jim Miller on Politics.
(Feel free to try my experiment with the punch line. I'd be interested to know whether most ordinary citizens get the joke, especially in Seattle. The Safeway and the McDonald's are right on the boundary between areas that voted for Gregoire and areas that voted for Rossi, for what it's worth.
And here's a suggestion for an enterprising journalist: The elected official most responsible for this fiasco is King County Executive Ron Sims. Why not ask him if he is still defending his elections office? He was just a few days ago.)
Posted by Jim Miller at December 17, 2004 07:03 AM | Email ThisAnybody still believe in the integrity of the process up there? I certainly don't. That erases all doubt for me.
They are committing fraud in King County.
Posted by: Kevin S on December 17, 2004 07:19 AM
This would be why I voted for him instead of Rudderman, because, even though I'm a democrat, I recognize a fair decision, and he has the cojones to read the law as what the law says.
Now, on this whole Ballot 81 thing, Kathy Lambert is one of the most partisan republicans on the county council. I'd like to hear it from the canvassas mouth and if there was any sort of additional markings to divine the intent... did the voter write Christine Rossi on the ballot while pondering who to vote for? And then fill in the bubble for Gregoire?
I need more information to make a call on the ballot 81 issue, BUT, to take it at face value just with Lambert's information, if the only marking on the ballot was a write-in for "Christine Rossi", then it should not be counted.
Posted by: DustinJames on December 17, 2004 07:49 AM...and CDC, the very fact that you brought up A's through CH and now this happens - Gone for 6 weeks and pops up the day that post is made. Makes me even more leery of the tables posted on this site.
Posted by: Julie on December 17, 2004 08:13 AMAnd if you want to talk partisan, Dustin, then Dwight Pelz is the winner hands down. And this guy is on the canvassing board. Talk about the fox guarding the hen house.
The stench emanating from King County can be smelled all the way to Kiev.
Posted by: Kevin S on December 17, 2004 08:19 AMThere is one partisan R on the board (Sattenberg), one partisan D on the board (Pelz) and one centric D on the board (Logan). It was Logan who didn't want the hand count, who argued against it. It was Logan who worked closely with Sam Reed, and came with a glowing recommendation from Mr Reed. It is Logan who still has broad bi-partisan support.
I suspect Logan will cast a vote to not include the extra 22, as a centrist democrat who would have voted for Dino if his support would have been there for one major issue I care strongly about, I've pretty much said the same things he has said for awhile, I just don't get to be on the radio nearly as much.
Posted by: DustinJames on December 17, 2004 08:25 AMThe skeletons (rats) in those closets would never have been exposed if it weren't for this. I just pray we get it all cleaned out.
Posted by: Julie on December 17, 2004 08:27 AMEither, the guy is no longer to be trusted.
Posted by: Kevin S on December 17, 2004 08:28 AMMake up your mind!
Do you believe:
1. Are Democrats the stupid ones who just can't get their ballots right the first time?
OR...
2. "It's fair to assume that any newly discovered ballots would be distributed to the two candidates based on their share of the previous vote counts."
BTW, if you say a little bit of both, then your case in both instances are not as powerful.
Posted by: Dude on December 17, 2004 08:30 AMIf you go search the P-I, and the Times, and do a search about past King County elections and the overly major fuck-ups that happened every election in the county, you’ll see the miracle that Mr. Logan has actually done since coming on staff.
It isn’t realistic to expect Logan to remake a rowboat without a bottom into a luxury cruise liner without a single leak in the short time that he’s been on staff in King County.
The old elections directors have been replaced, for good reason. Logan is a former staff member of Republican Sam Reed who comes with impeccable credentials and bi-partisan respect and support.
I think he’s doing a pretty damn good job, all things considered.
I did a "machine count" of the (original) 573 "no signature on file" ballots from the list posted on the King County Elections website. This original list did not start until the last name of "Chartes-Maclean", which is number 234 on the larger list of 1554 people on the (allegedly) mismatched signature rejected absentee ballot list. This is 15.06% of the way down the list. The name "Chartes-Maclean" would also appear on page 205 of the 1418 page Seattle Metro phone book, or 14.46% down the list.
King County Elections staff screwed up again, and somehow did not check the first 233 names or so on the (allegedly) mismatched signature list to see if there were signatures on file in the optical imaging system.
If this is so, then the last 1321 names on the 1554 person list yielded 573 additional ballots, for a rate of 43.48%. If the first 233 names are checked, then this should have yielded another 101 or so names.
Instead of getting 101 new "no signature on file" ballots from the first 233 names, the commissars downtown have somehow come up with 161 new ballots, for a conversion ratio of 69.53%. The odds of this disparity resulting by chance are exceedingly small, and I will leave them to the "Shark" to calculate.
It is possible that some fraud is happening in the process where the commissars determine whether there is an optical imaging signature on file. Two possibilities: (1) they say no optical signature is on file, when one really is, or (2) the optical signatures were on file, but were recently deleted on several dozen of the ballots in the A-Ch list.
Next tactic will be for more absentee ballots to be converted from the Ch-Z list, so that the high percentage from the A-Ch list does not look too suspicious. Look for more optical imaging signatures to disappear from the computer system on these voters. We are probably looking for another 300 or so absentee ballots to be converted from the Ch-Z portion of the list.
I wonder if the new 162 ballots from the A-Ch list also happen to be from precincts that are even more heavily pro-Gregoire than the 573 ballots from the Ch-Z list? If they are eliminating optical signatures from the computer to increase the supposed "no signature on file" rejection list, then it would make sense to pick those names more heavily from the Seattle precincts.
Does the Secretary of State's office maintain an optical imaging system for voter signatures submitted by the various counties? If so, and if any significant numbers of optical signatures are actually on file with Sam Reed's office, that are allegedly not on file with King County, whether for the 162 A-Ch ballots or the 573 Ch-Z ballots, then we will definitely know that fraud has been committed.
Posted by: Richard Pope on December 17, 2004 08:35 AMThe situation in 'Kiev' County has gone beyond accidental or incidental. It's gone beyond the point of 'oops' to just how much will they get away with. I think it's completely irresponsible to count a vote for "Christine Rossi" as a vote for Gregoire no matter what their intent was. If they wrote in the write-in space and filled in a bubble, that's an overvote and is void. I have a feeling that it was a 'protest' vote ... trying to say that they're both the same so it doesn't matter who you vote for. It's just the kind of self-righteous thing that a radical left-leaning Kiev County voter would do. Then again, I'm just tyring to figure out intent...and that's not legal is it?
I don't understand why it is so hard for these people to follow the rules. If there's no signature, it doesn't count. If their signature wasn't on file, even after the county contacted them to confirm a signature in the summer, then their vote doesn't count.
It's called responsibility and without it you shouldn't vote. And I'd say the same thing even if it were my vote not being counted...if I'm irresponsible, it's my own fault and maybe I'll learn to do better next time.
Posted by: megs on December 17, 2004 09:01 AMYou touchy-feely clowns in Seattle have been deluded into thinking that if the PI and Times and the TV stations quote enough Democrats, their version of reality must be true. It isn't. Gore and Kerry discovered how that works, too. The LAW is what governs, not the media, and the way to make sure it does is to go to court.
Posted by: FedUpWithThis on December 17, 2004 09:40 AMUs *Democrats* are the ones that are
deluded eh?
How about telling that to the *Republican* Secretary of State Sam Reed who announced today that despite being a Republican, he believed the King County canvassing board is both correct and legally canvassing the 573 discovered ballots.
*He* believes that the Republican lawsuit that Vance is filing is incorrect and illegal, just like the ones the Democrats filed.
Hello pot? This is kettle. You're black.
Posted by: DustinJames on December 17, 2004 09:44 AMI sure would love to see a picture of that ballot.
And she had other complaints that also seemed credible to Ross
Posted by: Jim Miller on December 17, 2004 09:58 AM(And I really like the name "X-ine Gregoire")
Posted by: Raoul Ortega on December 17, 2004 10:20 AMI don't really want there to be a lawsuit either, but what choice to Republicans have if this election is being stolen? There is a big difference between this election and FL '00. First, Dino has already won TWO counts in a row. Second, the Democrats are the one's who started and prolonged this by going to court TWICE to get extra votes counted (first to contact voters to verify signatures; second to include the extra votes). Third, I don't see how anyone can not see the fraud and complete incompetance occurring in King 'Kiev' County.
It's not the pot calling the kettle black here. It's the kettle that's completely in the wrong and the pot is just trying to point that out...so to speak. :-)
Anyway, the logic being used is beyond me in all this. So, someone writes Christine Rossi and that's a vote for x-tine? How do you figure? If I were a D and the roles of the board members were reversed (2 R's and 1 D) and there was a write in Dino Gregoire, I'd be screaming bloody murder if they chose Dino as the vote...It's so obviously such a biased and ridiculous decision.
And I can't see how anyone with an ounce of self-respect can believe that all these 'found' votes can be considered legitimate. Don't you think it's a itty, bitty, tiny bit suspicious that they've found votes SO many times???
I don't care what party you're in, this is ridiculous and I'm getting fed up.
Posted by: megs on December 17, 2004 10:35 AMPersonally, I think this whole hand recount shouldn't have happened anyway. Why? Because the majority of the money fronted for it came from out of state donors. In other words, people who will never be affected by this are essentially voting in our election via pumping money into a hand recount that was sure to turn into a circus as the machine recount had it's problems too. I say give these people of THIS STATE a chance to come up with the funds, and if they can't (and they must prove that they are a WA state resident), then the hand recount is invalid, end of story.
Posted by: Ferrous on December 17, 2004 10:41 AMAs I posted above...
"Sam Reed was on the Mike Siegel show this morning..."
And that's where he made the declaration, much to Mike's chagrin. He started off with "I know you and your listeners will probably be pretty dissapointed with this, but..."
I'm sure you could also call the Secretary of State's office for an official opinion for backup, since there isn't a transcript of his comments available on Mike's website.
And you've misconstrued what the Secretary of State's position on this has been. His position has been from day one that canvassing boards should not be FORCED to recanvass new votes as the democratic lawsuit wanted, but that canvassing boards should, at their own discretion, be able to recanvass votes if a substantial error has occurred as provided by law.
Posted by: DustinJames on December 17, 2004 10:43 AMDidn't Gregoire run under the name 'Chris Gregoire'? Who is Christine? There was no 'Christine' in this race!
That vote should be counted for 'Christine Rossi'.
Anything else would be incompetence or fraud.
Posted by: Larry on December 17, 2004 10:45 AMI understand that he's doing his job and I think that Sam is an incredibly competant and honest secretary of state. And I've heard him lament on the situation ... and that it hasn't been caused by the Republicans, but by the Democrats. It's an incredibly unfortunate situation, for sure. But after two votes, even with the found votes, Dino won.
God willing, he will win this recount too...despite all the slippery and shady events occurring.
Posted by: Megs on December 17, 2004 11:01 AMIt's now up to the court to decide. It is not whining to ask the court. If anything, by getting a ruling, Rossi is trying to give a sense of finality and legitimacy to the next governor, whoever it is. To not get a final say from the courts would make the outcome even "less final" in the minds of the voters.
Although, it appears Gregoire will win the 3rd and final coin toss. Too bad the coin Dean Logan uses has two heads - or is that two tales.
Posted by: Mike on December 17, 2004 11:11 AMit really shows what kind of people they are....
but we just have to be so "nice" about it, don't we, and just let the Democrat machine get its way....
Sam Reed should defect...he's encouraging this fraud....
Posted by: lee on December 17, 2004 12:28 PMit really shows what kind of people they are....
but we just have to be so "nice" about it, don't we, and just let the Democrat machine get its way....
Sam Reed should defect...he's encouraging this fraud....
Posted by: lee on December 17, 2004 12:28 PMhttp://www.co.pierce.wa.us/pc/abtus/ourorg/aud/elections/misc/currentresults.htm
Pierce County has an all D canvassing board. The 60 or so ballots referred to the all D canvassing board changed the net margin from Gregoire +17 to Gregoire +31. Go figure.
Probably the same thing happened in Snohomish County, which has 2 D's and 1 R on its canvassing board. The determination of voter intent ballots have been arbitrarily ruled in Gregoire's favor an overwhelming and unfair percentage of the time.
Posted by: Richard Pope on December 17, 2004 12:56 PMProbably Spokane County won't have such a bad result. Their canvassing board is probably majority R. I think the R's have a majority on the county commission, and probably at least one or both of the auditor and prosecutor positions. We can probably expect an honest county out of Spokane County, which has a 7-6 edge for Rossi over Gregoire, and also gave Rossi a 134-121 edge in the machine recount.
The commissars downtown will soon know whether they need to come up with more ballots. Maybe they will play it safe and come up with more ballots anyway.
Posted by: Richard Pope on December 17, 2004 01:06 PMthis would never be allowed if it was the other way around...
no way would they be making all these exceptions and rule changes and be actually hunting for more ballots.
yet we in the rest of the unimportant counties, the poor counties if you will, where are all our lost ballots and our misplaced ballots and our ballots that we just "enhanced" for our guy?
"Don't know about a run off being allowed, although I'm all for it for sure! However, didn't that initiative win to limit future elections to just the two candidates that got the most votes in the primary no matter party affiliation? I wish that were the case this time as I'm sure that most of the votes of the Libertarian would have either gone to Rossi or the voter just would have abstained. If you really want to be ticked, be ticked at these third party folks who never have a prayer of winning in a race like this."
Yes, the Grange initiative to install a Cajun primary passed.
The solution to this whole mess is Instant Runoff Voting. Here in Vancouver, we've already adopted it, but can't use it until the Legislature says OK, which so far it hasn't.
With IRV, voters would have ranked the candidates in order of preference rather than simply selecting one. Since Bennett would have ended with fewest first choices, the second choices of the Bennett voters would have been applied. Ferrous suggests that Rossi would have been the second choice of the greater number of Bennett voters.
We're going through all of this seemingly endless recounting and when we're done, we're still going to be in a position of knowing that our governor was the choice of only a minority of the voters. A majority voted for someone else.
Posted by: John Milem on December 17, 2004 01:24 PM
Sam Reed is wrong. The Courts will decide this one, not Sam. Once again, you're a Democrat who's whining about hypocrisy when the real crime is fraud--the Democrats' electoral fraud.
Next thing, you'll be telling me what Chuck Hagel and Arlen Specter have to say about the situation.
Posted by: FedUpWithThis on December 17, 2004 02:33 PMThe ballot was marked for Gregoire, with Christine Rossi written in. In almost all other people oriented races a full or partial name was written in to coincide with the candidate selected.
The gov race was the only with a combined name, so its unclear why they did it.
Since the name did not match the one selected, it was a technical overvote, but using their precious voter intent, they gave it to Gregoire, voting 2-1 along party lines.
The republican guy even brought up the fact that since htere is like a real christine rossi living simewhere in the PS area, it is possible it was written in for her.
Who knows.
[x] Christine Gregoire
[ ] Dino Rossi
[ ] Writein "Christine Rossi"
[x] John Kerry
[ ] George Bush
[ ] Writein "John Kerry"
etc etc for all other candidates. Intent seems clear. It also seems clear that Republicans are inventing fraud where there isn't any. Way to be sore losers.
Posted by: noduhman on December 24, 2004 10:32 PM