Spokane County just reported.
A net gain of +7 for Rossi, leaving him with a total +8 gain in the recounted counties to a net lead of 154,759.
Gregoire won King County in the machine recount with a lead of 154,709.
She would need to increase her lead in King County by 50 votes in order to win.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at December 17, 2004 04:49 PM | Email ThisIts almost certainly a moot point anyway. I said, on the 3rd, there was no way this would stand..............I hate being right!
Posted by: Shane on December 17, 2004 04:57 PMDoes anyone else?
Posted by: Alcon on December 17, 2004 05:17 PMDo I think that Dean Logan is counting Rossi votes and manufacturing 2 for Gregoire? No, although it kind of feels like it. Do I think that they went back and mined for D votes, probably ignoring any R votes they might have "found". Maybe the rays are getting through my tin-foil hat, but I could believe that.
Posted by: Shane on December 17, 2004 05:24 PMFalse, or enhanced? After seeing the 'Christine Rossi' story, I have every reason to believe the King County results will be tainted in one way or another.
Posted by: Larry on December 17, 2004 05:25 PMGood question but at the wrong place. Most folks here just want Dino to be declared the winner. It it means ignoring the votes of a few hundred voters who followed all the rules and voted, so be it.
We are going through a legally allowed manual recount. If legally cast, but previously uncounted, votes found in this process are discarded to help Dino win this race, I wonder why we even bothered with an election? The reason you have a manual recount is because one of the candidates believes votes weren't counted. If mistakes are found and fixed, why is that a problem? Republicans are OK with a recount as long as Dino is declared the winner -- actual vote count be damned.
Posted by: bt on December 17, 2004 05:30 PMJust to screw things up, if he/she is, are there still likely potential court challenges?
Is it likely the D's would contest and take it to the legislature?
Posted by: Shane on December 17, 2004 05:33 PMKen
Posted by: Ken Hupp on December 17, 2004 05:38 PMWhat is your source for the +14 number?
I suspected that the Democrats knew they had lost
without the 753 added ballots when they decided
to reexamine the overvote. It was their fallback
position if the Republican won an injunction
against counting those ballots.
Does your source know how many overvotes they
are reconsidering, and what are the chances they
"mine" a net pick-up of 65 votes from them?
Guess we get to see Gregoire win on the manual, and that the Repugs get to keep legal votes from counting.
A double win to me.
Posted by: Sha on December 17, 2004 05:46 PMWould not surprise me at all if they threw out all Rossi overvotes and kept the one's for Gregoire. It's a 2-1 partisan canvassing board, so anything is game.
One would hope the Supreme Court ruling would protect against this kind of recanvassing.
It was amazing to show up and find out that they had changed the overvote counting rules mid hand recount. Even the most strident Dems have no defense for this one. Truly a play to influence the result for Gregoire. No shame at all, they made this change in broad daylight for all to see.
King County DID do a manual recount during the second recount. They 'enhanced' ballots while the rest of the counties merely counted again. That is why this recount result should not differ much - except for all those 'found' ballots along the way.
Posted by: Larry on December 17, 2004 05:51 PMThat's why the Supremes will rule next week to restore the rule of law to the counting process.
Dems, say it over and over again to yourselves until you get it:
A recount is not a recanvass.
A recount is not a recanvass.
A recount is not a recanvass.
No, that isn't why you have a manual recount. The reason for having a manual recount is that one of the candidates believes that the existing ballots were *miscounted*. But elections officials can only recount the original ballots, not keep finding new ones to count.
And don't give me that c**p about 'counting every vote.' I'm getting sick of it.
Now, where is my orange scarf? And when is the next rally???
Posted by: Mac on December 17, 2004 05:55 PMPerhaps someone can cure my ignorance, but why is there 3 members on the Canvassing board as opposed to 4 (or whatever)? Seems to me that just begs for partisanship.
Now, lets all step back for a moment. Im going to pretend that I am a far-left Deanic Demo (it hurts, but I'll take one for the team). After NINE discoveries, even I have to wonder.....and even if there were 9 honest mistakes, the appearance is one of impropriety. ....... Oh and FLORIDA!!!OHIO!!!!HALLIBURTON!!!!!!!YEAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!
(I am still pretending to be a Donk)
Contrary to what you think, everyone here just wants the RULES TO BE FOLLOWED.
If votes were rejected improperly earlier on, or have just been 'found' this week, then the people responsible in the King County Elections Commission should be summarily FIRED and escorted out of the building by security.
You should be angry at those incompetent workers in K.C.E.C. including, but not limited to, Ron Sims, just as we are. How did votes vanish on election day and turn up yesterday? Where is the inventory control? Aren't you afraid of this happening in the future, especially if the evil Republicans are in power?
Sheesh, find a brain and get a life.
Posted by: Larry on December 17, 2004 05:57 PMYou should maybe take that up with Logan and Sims.
Posted by: South County on December 17, 2004 05:57 PMI had ONE bottle of ketchup in my fridge this morning. I bought ANOTHER bottle of ketchup this evening and put it in my fridge.
Now...
How many bottles of ketchup were in my fridge this morning?
Posted by: Dan on December 17, 2004 06:41 PMThey're going to have orange signs and are asking everyone to wear orange. I think it's great!
Also, he mentioned that this is not a Dino rally...it's just about making our voices heard and asking for the rules to be followed. Although...I understand that it's mostly the Dino supporters who actually want the rules. :-)
Posted by: megs on December 17, 2004 07:21 PMDo you mean 15 more in KC than the earlier count? or a total of 15 (50 (Rossi current lead) minue 35 (new votes for X-ine) = ahead 15? or some other math computation I have missed?
Help - please be more explicit!
Posted by: Mac on December 17, 2004 07:25 PMRossi's problem in the manual recount has been almost exclusively in Rossi counties (Adams, Benton, Clallam, Clark, Douglas, Franklin, Island, Pierce, Snohomish, Wahkiakum, Whitman and Yakima).
Favorable harbinger for Rossi in King?
Posted by: John Milem on December 17, 2004 07:45 PMIt stands to reason that if CG can get +31 out of Pierce (and +44 out of Snohomish), she can easily get +51 out of the much larger, and much more corrupt, King Co.
And that's without the disputed 700+ ballots.
Posted by: Kevin S on December 17, 2004 08:39 PMits unconscienable.....absolutely unconscienable that the Democrat party would stoop to forcing the counting of unsigned ballots after they went door to door for CG...( count all the votes ....Hah!)...then they found a few more thousands and then they found more still and then they conjured up some from a "locked" area that they just decided to check ( I wonder if they check at every election or is it just this one) and then they "enhance" ballots for their candidate and then they find misplaced ballots that still need verification, right, and now they're changing the ballot counting rules....mid-stream!!!!
it looks like fraud and smells like fraud, and even if its totally legit, they have made a mockery of this election, and they will never ever be trusted again...
my question again is....how many elections have they found ballots all over the place and how many elections have they changed the rules and how many elections have they solicited Democrat votes and ignored GOP votes?
and can any Democrat swear to God that any military guy that wanted to vote got his or her ballot in a timely manner, or was that just another convienient mistake?
Posted by: lee on December 17, 2004 08:42 PMA. 3/4 of all the total ballots have been recounted
B. 3/4 of all the polling precincts have been recounted, and none of the absentee precincts have been recounted
C. 3/4 of all the polling precincts have been recount, and 3/4 of the absentee precincts have been recounted
If the correct answer is B, then Gregoire is going to lose votes big time in King County by the time the recount is complete.
Posted by: Richard Pope on December 17, 2004 08:52 PMHowever, when it happens on a Lberal blog, it's called "Best Activist, Hell Raising" etc. and thought of as appropriate.
We see the same thing on the Wonkette nationally. I'm not against a beautiful woman, but blatant immature use of sex and profanity should be placing these blogs a notch down the credibility scale in the eyes of the MSM, etc. and instead it's looked at as spunky, creative, part of the vocal mainstream that needs to speak out against the too conservative, etc.
My father in law always says that swearing is for those who can't think of a better word. We know Goldy is a talented writer and he CAN think of a better word, so why doesn't he?
I will make a bold prediction -- the manual recount will end up with at least a 500 ballot reduction in total ballot count in King County (assuming no additional ballots are added). This reduction could possibly be more than 1000 ballots.
This problem derives from the discrepancies in precinct ballot counts in King County. Hundreds of precincts had changes, generally of one or two votes, either up or down, from the original count to the machine recount. This netted out to a 336 ballot increase -- from 898,238 to 898,574. But there were 147 plusses and 114 minusses in polling place ballots, and 900 or so plusses and 700 or so minusses in absentee ballots. Also a lot of change in provisionals, although this could have come from ballots not counted in the original count.
There are too many of these changes to be explained by fraud. It would be ridiculous to steal 114 polling place ballots from certain precincts and add 147 polling place ballots to other precincts. If fraud was at play, then a Rossi ballot would be stolen in a given precinct and replaced with a Gregoire ballot in that same precinct. That would have been more effective, and less detectable, since there would be no change in the precinct's ballot count.
There are only two possible explanations: (1) the Accuvote machines frequently miss ballots than are scanned through them entirely or (2) the Accuvote machines sometimes count a ballot twice for some reason. The plus or minus change from the original count to the machine recount would depend upon whether the particular error was committed in the first count or the second count. If the same error occurred in both counts, then that precinct would not show any change.
If all these errors were caused by machine undercounts of ballots, then at least 1000 ballots were not counted the first time and at least 800 ballots were not counted the second time. In that event, the manual recount will have at least 800 ballots magically appear out of nowhere (from the existing ballot collection) and Rossi will be sunk.
If all these errors were caused by machine double counts of ballots, then at least 800 ballots were double counted the first time and at least 1000 ballots were double counted the second time. In that event, the manual recount will have at least 1000 ballots magically disappear into nothingness(from the existing ballot collection) and Rossi will win convincingly -- perhaps by over 200 votes.
Either way, the defeated side will point to the magical changes in the ballot count as evidence of fraud or serious irregularity, and the election will be challenged. A Gregoire win will seem more fraudulent than a Rossi win under such circumstances, since the Democrats firmly control King County.
Classless act all the way around...why would anybody ever wanna be a dem?