December 22, 2004
Precinct 1823

Crunching the data in the King Ukraine County voter registration file, I came across precinct SEA 37-1823, or simply Precinct 1823, located in downtown Seattle between Elliot Bay and I-5 near the James St. exit.


Precinct 1823 has 763 registered "Active" voters. 527 of them list as their residence address 500 4th Ave -- the King County Administration Building. 241 of these voters specifically note their apartment number as #553, which is the room number of the ... King Ukraine County Records and Elections office.


Over 300 of these alleged "voters" give 500 4th Ave. (with or without the Elections office room number) as both their residence and mailing addresses. Several of the other Elections Office residents give overseas mailing addresses, such as Anuj Rathi of Mumbai, India, Rayko Suzuki of Tokyo, Japan, and Pascal Engi of Bern, Switzerland.

Another 48 of the Precinct 1823 "voters" give as their residence address 511 3rd Ave, which appears to be some sort of private mailbox service.

And then there are the two Messrs. Harder -- Mike Harder of 509 3rd Ave. Apt. 507, who registered to vote on April 28, 2004 and Michael D. Harder of 509 3rd Ave. Apt. 507, who registered to vote on July 20, 2004. Both Messrs. Harder are flagged as permanent absentee voters. [while it is possible that this is, say, a father and son, I believe that is unlikely in this case. There is one additional voter registered at this apartment and in the same time frame. The only other apartments in this building have only one or two registered voters each. i.e. it's doubtful that any of the apartments in the building would house 3 or more adults].

465 (61%) of the Precinct 1823 voters registered during 2004 and nearly all of them "live" at 500 4th Ave. By contrast, only 13% of all of King County voters registered in 2004.

3 members of the List of 573 Magical Mystery Voters are from Precinct 1823, 2 of whom "live" at the Elections Office.

In the machine recount, Precinct 1823 gave 203 votes to Gregoire and 87 votes to Rossi, for a net Gregoire lead of 116 votes.

The only way for Christine Gregoire to win the governor's race is to carry Precinct 1823 in a landslide.

UPDATE: Elections Superintendent Bill Huennekens explained that the residents of the Elections office are "homeless individuals", and that there is a special section of the administrative code which allows for that. He sees nothing unusual in the fact that some of these so-called homeless individuals also give mailing addresses elsewhere. I asked him what the county did to verify the identities of individuals who list the elections office as their residence and he said that they can't be treated any differently from anybody else. I take that to mean, that anybody on the planet who wants to vote (or vote again) can simply claim to be a resident of the King County Elections office.

UPDATE 2: I heard John Carlson discuss the Precinct 1823 findings on his show this afternoon. A police officer informed him that 511 3rd Avenue is not a private mail service, but a flophouse, most of whose residents are felons. Carlson also discussed Precinct 1823 with County Councilmember Larry Phillips, who made a bland statement about correcting faulty voting procedures. State Auditor Brian Sonntag had a good laugh at some of the weirder details from Precinct 1823, but also said very seriously that people elsewhere in the state have gone to jail for vote fraud and that the irregularities in King County need to be investigated.

UPDATE 3: Bobbie Egan from the Elections office e-mails:

King County like all counties is guided by the same law which allows the homeless to register to vote using a county building as an address.

This is no conspiracy, but state law.

the WAC is:

434-208-090 << 434-208-100 >> End of chapter

WAC 434-208-100 Registering to vote -- Nontraditional address. No person registering to vote, who meets all the qualifications of a registered voter in the state of Washington, shall be disqualified because of a nontraditional physical address being used as a residence address. Nontraditional addresses may include shelters, parks or other identifiable locations which the voter deems to be his/her residence. Voters using such an address will be registered and precincted based on the location provided. Voters without a traditional address will be registered at the county courthouse, city hall or other public building near the area that the voter considers his/her residence. Registering at a nontraditional address will not disqualify a voter from requesting ongoing absentee voter status provided the voter designates a valid mailing address.

I never alleged "conspiracy", only sloppy administration. Still no word how the county protects against double or otherwise fraudulent registrations.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at December 22, 2004 11:26 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Goldy and the other Dems who insist on the driven snow purity of King County Elections, what say you?

Not looking to good for your gal when this is contested in court.

Posted by: Jeff B. on December 22, 2004 11:34 AM
2. Stefan - King County makes New Jersey seem clean as the driven snow. This seems suspiciously like Fraud. Oops sorry about the F word.

Posted by: CP on December 22, 2004 11:35 AM
3. Can't wait to see how the shills spin this.

Posted by: Matt J Kurlander on December 22, 2004 11:35 AM
4. Oh my god! Has this information been forwarded to the GOP, the TV and Radio news, or to the Washington State Supreme Court, because it absolutely needs to be, ASAP!

Posted by: jason on December 22, 2004 11:36 AM
5. LOL - hadn't read your post Jeff before posting about "driven snow". Telepathy?

Posted by: CP on December 22, 2004 11:37 AM
6. Perhaps those listed at the Elections Office are the homeless residents of King County who vote. Another possibility is that their confidentiality is protected for some reason, such as involvement in a crime or stalking situation.

Posted by: Tim B. on December 22, 2004 11:40 AM
7. GOP -- Losers.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Four more years of being on the outside, looking in.

You lost. Get over it.

Posted by: Christine Gregoire on December 22, 2004 11:42 AM
8. Matt - I guess Tim B. has provided your answer.

Posted by: (the other) John Hawkins on December 22, 2004 11:45 AM
9. Unbelieveable!!..I can't belive this stuff is going on and no one except this site is pointing any of this out...!

Posted by: Mike on December 22, 2004 11:45 AM
10. Hey Christine "Crooked Mile" Gregoire! As the old saying goes, "He who laughs last laughs best." So, blow it out your arse, chump.

Posted by: Mr.Zeitgeist on December 22, 2004 11:49 AM
11. Someone needs to investigate how many of these registered voters living in the KC Admin Bldg actual voted. Why are they not giving their true residence? Are there foreign nationals registered to vote?

Posted by: Jim Kamischke on December 22, 2004 11:50 AM
12. so now they taking people off the street and getting them to vote..

wonder how much coccaine they had to use to get them to do that...

that's probably why downtown Seattle is not a place you want to be in after dark...too many of those coccaine addles democrat paid off voters...

Posted by: lee on December 22, 2004 11:52 AM
13. This will not stand. Calm down. The Republicans have enough lawyers to take care of this.

Posted by: FedUpWithThis on December 22, 2004 11:55 AM
14. The KC Admin sheisters probably voted elsewhere too, at a precinct where they actually reside.

Posted by: Mr.Zeitgeist on December 22, 2004 11:55 AM
15. POSSIBILITY...

There is a good possibility that these "homeless individuals" might have registered from their real homes and voting TWICE in the same ellection.....I am saying that it is a possibility...However, I don't mind counting on that!!

Would you?

Posted by: BC on December 22, 2004 11:58 AM
16. Sharky,

Where are you getting the voter registration info from? Interesting stuff. Would be interesting to know about the newly registered voters and their status.

Posted by: Jimmynap on December 22, 2004 11:59 AM
17. "simply claim to be a resident of the King County Elections office."

which is exactly how Maria C. got into office...they had all those "floaters" come in and claim residency..

can anyone who is even half a citizen....not the CG types who don't care anything about integrity and the law.....but can people now see how the RAt machine has stolen elections over the yrs?

can we all see now that its not so much that Washington is Blue state...its just that the Seattle city area is Blue and Crooked....they have been counting illegal votes for some time now IMO....

not checking on absentee signatures?....oh really...

makes you really wonder why we spend the $.37 on postage if the entire states's votes mean nothing at all....

this is one reason I will continue to vote down any taxes or levies or bonds or anything of that sort, because apparently my money is important but not my vote....

we must change.....we will change...!


Posted by: lee on December 22, 2004 12:01 PM
18. Jimmy: Where are you getting the voter registration info from?

It's a file available to the public from the King County Elections Office, address given above.

Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on December 22, 2004 12:02 PM
19. Thanks for digging that up Shark.

Of course, we all know there are no homeless outside of King County or any of the "blue" counties.

And some homeless stand on principle and vote Republican.

38% turnout in that precinct? Sounds like a engaged electorate there? A real landslide!

I'm sure we can trust you, Shark, to keep a Shark's eye on that precinct.

Posted by: John on December 22, 2004 12:03 PM
20. "so now they taking people off the street and getting them to vote.."

Are you saying that homeless people aren't allowed to vote?

Wow, talk about Republican empathy!

Posted by: DustinJames on December 22, 2004 12:05 PM
21. Of course the homeless are allowed to vote. It's the military who aren't.

Posted by: CP on December 22, 2004 12:06 PM
22. Of course, they wouldn't be over in Iraq in the first place if we didn't have the monkey puppet running the white house, although truthfully, I wasn't excited about his Democratic opponent...

If they want a person to blame, look at the top... the guy who sent 'em over there.

JBB = Just Blame Bush

Posted by: DustinJames on December 22, 2004 12:10 PM
23. I would hope no matter the outcome that this gets a look see. As far as Dem corruption I hope Lee can see that it is everywhere. It is not a Demo or Repub problem. There are some crooked bastards out there that violate laws that would send you and I to prison. But when the law allows a homeless person to register to vote and active organizations facilitate that is legal - possibly unethical but legal. Now if said homeless (toungue in cheek) votes elsewhere that person is in a heap. And they are not hard to catch.

Posted by: Jimmynap on December 22, 2004 12:10 PM
24.
"They must be homeless! How dare you pick on the homeless, you monsters!"

The shills are beyond parody.

Posted by: Matt J Kurlander on December 22, 2004 12:12 PM
25. Sure, DJ...they aren't entitled to vote because they're fighting in a war you don't agree with.

Do you also plan on being at the airport when they get home, so you can spit on them?

Posted by: South County on December 22, 2004 12:12 PM
26. Some ideas for Stefan or some other computer whiz:

1) Check the King County file for name duplications. How many people are apparently registered at more than one address? Granted, it can be hard to tell for Smith and Johnson, since there are no dates of birth in the public info. But names like Sharkansky and Harder are less common.

2) Can you compare the Washington names with, let's say, those from California or Oregon? Someone compared Florida and Ohio, and found at least 10,000 people who were registered in both states -- several hundreds of whom were voting in both states.

3) How come Mike Harder is registered twice? Are the dates of birth and social security numbers the same? (We can't check this of course, but King County Elections can.) Is there any type of mechanism whatsoever to verify the identity or eligibility of registered voters in this state?

4) Check out the King County registration file against a list of convicted felons. Rights to vote can be restored, but not for one to three years after release, and then only if all fines and restitution have been paid. Probably almost half of convicted felons are too lazy to pay off their financial obligations, even if they are only $500 (the minimum felony fine). And if someone was convicted in another state, they may not have a nearly automatic process to restore voting rights.

5) Is there any way to verify whether the people on the voter registration file are actually United States citizens? My proposal is to get the U.S. Justice and Homeland Security Departments interested in this matter. They can run the database search, and then file criminal or deportation charges against the non-citizens on this list. That will make the information public, and will support an election contest based on ineligible voters.

Posted by: Richard Pope on December 22, 2004 12:18 PM
27. Oh no...was I picking on the homeless? Heck, I have been homeless. I am they guy the Republicans tell stories about how "they picked themselves up by their own bootstraps!!" I don't think I could have gotten here with the current set of GOP principals. :)

Posted by: Jimmynap on December 22, 2004 12:19 PM
28. That was rather Orwellian...yikes

Posted by: Jimmynap on December 22, 2004 12:21 PM
29. I'm glad Mr. Justice Rehnquist will still be able to work on this election fraud case.

Posted by: FedUpWithThis on December 22, 2004 12:22 PM
30. SouthCounty, show me where in my comments that I said they weren't entitled to vote? I've never said that, ever. Don't put words in my mouth.

Just because I don't like the war doesn't mean that I won't support the troops fighting it.

I'm saying that if you're looking for people to blame, look at the entire picture.

Who f'd up the late mailing of the absentees?
King County.

Who sent them over to get rid of a crazy dictator who didn't have WMD's?
Mr. Bush.

Posted by: DustinJames on December 22, 2004 12:25 PM
31. what I meant is that people that do not have roots are a convenient souce of a quick batch of votes...

what ever happened to having to be living in an area before you get to vote there?...if there is no residence, you can't claim to live there...

can anybody but me see that if this is the standard then people can be bussed in and claim to be "residents"....how many of these quick votes materialized as provisional votes back when Gorton was defeated?

there used to regulations to vote...now, its just have a name, and you can vote...no matter if you just got off the bus at 7pm...you can claim you live there and vote...then get back on the bus again...

we need to go back to what primary elections and registration and ID's used to mean....that you established your right to vote ahead of time.....that you are properly id'd...

wherever you have these loose rules and regulations, fraud is always suspect....

so let's stop having loose rules and regulations, and maybe the Democrat party could win a few elections the old fashioned way...by convincing the majority to their side...

instead, we have this manipulation going on.....

Posted by: lee on December 22, 2004 12:27 PM
32. Of course, these are all highly educated, responsible homeless people who vote regularly, and vote democrat - not the insane alcoholic homeless people who live under the viaduct and only vote if you offer them a carton of smokes and a ride to the polling center.

Posted by: Liberal Larry on December 22, 2004 12:27 PM
33. DustinJames, it's still pretty hard to see your logic here. For better or for worse, Bush sent troops to Iraq. What on earth does this have to do with the right of those troops to vote in an election?

If we're going to look at the "entire picture" for the right people to "blame", presumably we have to take all of history into account, to explain why all WA residents were where they were when their ballots were mailed to them. For example, World War II probably had *some* influence on the demographics of Washington State in the long run, so let's blame Hitler for making this vote so close. Or maybe Churchill.

Posted by: Mistubob on December 22, 2004 12:35 PM
34. Let me first say, that I agree, the problem's main onus is definitely on King County for mailing out the ballots late.

I was just saying that if the troops were home to begin with instead of fighting a c(r)ooked war, they would have been around to vote in person, or at least have received their absentee ballots on time...

Posted by: DustinJames on December 22, 2004 12:38 PM
35. Wow, the homeless being used by Democrats to decide a close election...sounds a lot like Nixon vs. Kennedy! The Democrats are brilliant, don't win an election through sound fiscal and social policies, win an election through tried and proven election-stealing techniques. Their relentlessness leaves us GOP with only viable option...withdraw from the governors race! We can't specialize in winning elections at the polls and in the courts so we just have let the close ones go and stick with the landslides.

Posted by: Rian on December 22, 2004 12:40 PM
36. Nice work, Shark. You make me realize that the only way we're going to get King county voter rolls cleaned up is for ordinary citizens like you to pore over the mess and find all the garbage. Bill H doesn't seem too concerned about it. And DID Mr. Harder indeed vote twice??

And we all know Harder isn't the only one who's registered twice. A study of California's Kern County precincts showed that 37% of the democrat registrations were fraudulent! One guy voted four times, claiming he 'cared' more than most. Another guy actually said if Ds didn't cheat they wouldn't win!! It's amazing! I've never believed that WA was as clean as many claimed. Now we're finding that out.

Posted by: Michele on December 22, 2004 12:41 PM
37. Michael Medved just sited Stefan's research in the opening few minutes of his radio show on KTTH AM 770. He even used the term "Magical Mystery Ballots" as coined on this site. Unfortunately I didn't hear him credit this site as he should have. As far as I know, the research that Stefan did in regards to Precinct 1823 hasn't been done by anyone else, and so this blog is the only source for it. I'm glad that the facts are getting more exposure, but I wish those in the "big" media would acknowledge the hard work of bloggers who bring this to them on a silver platter.

Posted by: jason on December 22, 2004 12:41 PM
38. I'm surprised that King County hasn't released their numbers yet.

After all, the state Democratic party chair (the first to know) told them some time ago how the numbers are supposed to come out. If the election board can't click their heels together and do what they're told in a timely fashion, then what good are they?

Posted by: David on December 22, 2004 12:47 PM
39.
The Democrats are brilliant, don't win an election through sound fiscal and social policies, win an election through tried and proven election-stealing techniques.

Stealing an election is much easier than abandoning sixty years of failed paleo-soc1al1st dogma.

Posted by: Matt J Kurlander on December 22, 2004 12:47 PM
40. WAC 434-208-100 Registering to vote -- Nontraditional address. No person registering to vote, who meets all the qualifications of a registered voter in the state of Washington, shall be disqualified because of a nontraditional physical address being used as a residence address. Nontraditional addresses may include shelters, parks or other identifiable locations which the voter deems to be his/her residence. Voters using such an address will be registered and precincted based on the location provided. Voters without a traditional address will be registered at the county courthouse, city hall or other public building near the area that the voter considers his/her residence. Registering at a nontraditional address will not disqualify a voter from requesting ongoing absentee voter status provided the voter designates a valid mailing address.


RCW 29A.40.140
Challenges.
The qualifications of any absentee voter may be challenged at the time the signature on the return envelope is verified and the ballot is processed by the canvassing board. The board has the authority to determine the legality of any absentee ballot challenged under this section. Challenged ballots must be handled in accordance with chapter 29A.08 RCW.

RCW 29A.08.830
Affidavit -- Administration, notice of challenge.
(1) Any registered voter may request that the registration of another voter be canceled if he or she believes that the voter does not meet the requirements of Article VI, section 1 of the state Constitution or that voter no longer maintains a legal voting residence at the address shown on his or her registration record. The challenger shall file with the county auditor a signed affidavit subject to the penalties of perjury, to the effect that to his or her personal knowledge and belief another registered voter does not actually reside at the address as given on his or her registration record or is otherwise not a qualified voter and that the voter in question is not protected by the provisions of Article VI, section 4, of the Constitution of the state of Washington. The person filing the challenge must furnish the address at which the challenged voter actually resides.


All you need to do is figure out where those “homeless” people actually reside, and you can challenge their votes. Piece of cake!

It may be too late to do anything now, of course, since the time to challenge their registration or their qualification to vote was apparently sometime ago.

Posted by: Micajah on December 22, 2004 12:53 PM
41. To the poor, deluded DustinJames:

Why don't you have any military experience? Is it one of those "don't ask, don't tell" situations?

Posted by: FedUpWithThis on December 22, 2004 12:53 PM
42. I hope more media cover this. I don't expect them to be uncritical of it, but to at least cover it.

As for grounds for a contest of the election - I don't see it here yet. What is needed is for enough double voting individuals (not double registered), felons, foreigners, or otherwise unqualified persons who have cast ballots to be identified and that the number of such be in excess of the balance of victory.

Is this a tall order? Maybe, maybe not, but looking into it is what I hope Stefan is doing.

Xorosho, Stefan! Keep it up.

Posted by: DeadWood on December 22, 2004 12:56 PM
43. "Who sent them over to get rid of a crazy dictator who didn't have WMD's?
Mr. Bush.

Posted by: DustinJames on December 22, 2004 12:25 PM"

Who told Bush WMD's were there?
CIA Director George Tenat

Who put Tenat into office?
Bill Clinton

Who also attack Iraq (Desert Fox - Dec'98) because of WMD?
Bill Clinton

Sorry DJ, but precedence was set years before Bush took office.

Posted by: Dave P. on December 22, 2004 12:57 PM
44. FedUpWithThis,

I didn't pass a physical. My eyesight is too poor. I tried to sign up after H.S.

Posted by: DustinJames on December 22, 2004 12:59 PM
45. Dave P.

Good job. Gregoire also blamed her staff for the problems in her office, but said, candidly, that the buck stopped with her, that ultimately, she was responsible.

Where's Bush telling the American public that he was wrong, that his staff gave him bad info, but the buck stops with him and he accepts responsibility? He would earn more respect from many of us in the central and left if he could just admit that he's wrong.

I didn't vote for Dino because he lied about his business experience. If he can't even be candid about whether he's a Real Estate Broker vs Real Estate Agent, I can't honestly trust him to be truthful with me on other issues.

I voted for Gregoire because she can admit when she's wrong. I don't need a leader to be right on every issue, but one to be strong enough to admin when he/she isn't.

Posted by: DustinJames on December 22, 2004 01:05 PM
46. BOMBSHELL NEWS: DELAY IN KC RETURNS EXPLAINED

According to a reliable inside source, King County election officials just this morning found 200,000 Ohio votes for John Kerry! They are understandably beffudled at how these votes found their way to King County. (Apparently Sandy Berger inadvertently placed these votes in his pants before taking a cross-country trip.)

Posted by: David on December 22, 2004 01:05 PM
47. STEFAN - I hear you're going to be on Dory Monsun's show on KIRO in about 2 minutes - KIRO is 710AM for those of you interested.

Posted by: CP on December 22, 2004 01:05 PM
48. DustinJames:

How interesting, as your insight is also too poor as well!

Posted by: Larry on December 22, 2004 01:06 PM
49. correction of "admin" to "admit"

Posted by: DustinJames on December 22, 2004 01:07 PM
50. One of my kids is eager for military service, but concerned about his eyesight. When he's old enough, we're getting Lasik. Problem solved.

Posted by: Matt J Kurlander on December 22, 2004 01:07 PM
51. Just a note, be careful about same name at same address accusations. I have the same name as my father(I'm a Junior), and was registered to vote as a resident of his house while I was in college. Not that I believe that to be the case in all the double registrations in this instance, but just wouldn't want my name connected to possible fraud just for having the same name at the same address. Just didn't think it appropriate to announce Mr. Harder's name and address in public virtually accusing him of fraud, when we really don't know the truth in his specific instance.

Also though, is there no proof of residency required to vote in Washington? Seems odd to be able to register without proving you were actually in residence for a minimum amount of time.

Posted by: neutral observer on December 22, 2004 01:08 PM
52. I want Lasik so bad, but my astigmatism is so bad that it can't be done. :(

Posted by: DustinJames on December 22, 2004 01:10 PM
53. A real shame for the "Harder" family, then, that father and son with the SAME NAME are both homeless in the same King County precinct.

Hats off to them though for fulfilling their civic responsibility to vote.

"Harder" though, sounds a little like one of those creative fake names that the fraud-artists alwasy seem to come up. When you meet Mike and Michael Harder, you can be sure that their twin brothers Dick and Dick B are not far behind.

Posted by: David on December 22, 2004 01:17 PM
54. Big business republicans deflect attention from their own pilferring, private (and government) contract price gouging, cronyism, vote-rigging, etc, point a finger and say, "Government, Liberals, Democrats. Blame them", and under their breath, "for the profits we republicans rake in."

The party of business, the GOP, currently led by minority neo-conservatives do not have the best interests of the American people, neither Left nor Right, in mind. The rich, longer interested in supporting a middle class, use psychological means such as this to delude, to divide and divert attention from their hand in our pockets.

"Government, Liberals, Democrats. Blame them". Yeah right.


Posted by: Artie on December 22, 2004 01:23 PM
55. Ballgame

Posted by: Nathanael on December 22, 2004 01:24 PM
56. King is reporting that the Supreme Court decided in favor of the Democrats.....

Posted by: Jeremy Berry on December 22, 2004 01:27 PM
57. Hey Artie! Big business only has its "hand in your pocket" when you buy something. Big government always has its hand in your pocket. It's called TAXES, which are always the first thought and desire of you Leftist-State Control fools. Keep your bloody hands out of my pocket.

Posted by: Mr.Zeitgeist on December 22, 2004 01:31 PM
58. re: "A real shame for the "Harder" family, then, that father and son with the SAME NAME are both homeless in the same King County precinct. " Posted by David at December 22, 2004 01:17 PM

If you were paying attention David, noone ever said they were homeless. Their address is not listed as the administration building. Read more carefully next time.


Posted by: neutral observer on December 22, 2004 01:36 PM
59. Now may be a mighty good time to reflect on a time-honored and provocative quote by Joseph Stalin: "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."

Posted by: Geoff Brandt on December 22, 2004 02:25 PM
60. Dino and Christine were walking down the street and came across a homeless person. As normal there were asked for assistance.

Dino pulled out his wallet, gave the person his business card and $20.00 with the instructions to buy some food and then come see him in the morning for a job.

A few blocks later another homeless person asked for assistance. Remembering the kindness of Dino, Christine decided to also help out.

She reached into Dino's wallet, pulled out four $5.00 bills, gave $5.00 to the homeless for food and kept the remaining $15.00 for "administrative purposes".

That is sums up the difference between Democrats and Republicans in a nutshell. To bad the State Supreme Court has ruled that State Law doesn't apply to King County. What about those military ballots that weren't mailed out in time? Will those be counted now? Since the vast majority of them tend to be Republican voters, I doubt it.

As to this article, this is a very easy way to commit fraud. Guess the truth is being noticed now. If you want to steal elections, just run as a Democrat in King County and the party will do the rest.

Posted by: Chris on December 22, 2004 02:28 PM
61. I was just watching the vote.wa.gov manual recount site and I swear I just saw KC results?? But now they're gone! Anyways, I thought I saw CG up by over 200 votes. Let's hope it was a strange mistake or my imagination...

Posted by: kristen on December 22, 2004 02:29 PM
62. the results I saw had an update time of 2:00, but now it's back to 11:27. Anyone else notice this?

Posted by: kristen on December 22, 2004 02:32 PM
63. The Washington Supreme Court has defined certification date as the day on which Sam Reed certifies the manual recount, for the purposes of allowing the newly "found" votes to be added under RCW 29A.60.210.

However, county election officials in all 39 counties have interpreted the "certification date" in RCW 29A.60.190(1) -- setting a deadline for receipt of the absentee ballots -- to be November 17, 2004 -- the date on which county officials certified the original count.

This is the first time any appellate court has intepreted the meaning of "certification date". Presumably, the same definition should apply to RCW 29A.60.190(1) as to RCW 29A.60.210.

This means that all the absentee ballots that were received after November 17, 2004 (or whatever other date counties decided to stop counting) must be counted. Most of these will be military ballots and overseas voters. Military and overseas ballots merely need to be signed on or before election day, with the postmark date being irrelevant. Any other absentee ballots -- i.e. those mailed by non-military voters from within the United States -- must have a U.S. postmark on or before 11/02/2004 to be counted.

Posted by: Richard Pope on December 22, 2004 03:00 PM
64. Delighted with the shenanigans in Washington State. I told you they would never forget me!

Richard Daley (Senior)
C/O Beelzebub

PS Its hot down here too.

Posted by: Michael on December 22, 2004 03:54 PM
65. Delighted with the shenanigans in Washington State. I told you they would never forget me!

Richard Daley (Senior)
C/O Beelzebub

PS Its hot down here too.

Posted by: Michael on December 22, 2004 03:54 PM
66. Delighted with the shenanigans in Washington State. I told you they would never forget me!

Richard Daley (Senior)
C/O Beelzebub

PS Its hot down here too.

Posted by: Michael on December 22, 2004 03:55 PM
67. You people in Washington State will never learn. Haven't you heard of Florida? If the voters wear a uniform don't count them OK.

Al Bore

Posted by: Michael on December 22, 2004 04:03 PM
68. You have even fixed the clock. Its Thursday over here in God's Country.

Albert Einstein

Posted by: Michael on December 22, 2004 04:06 PM
69. So you crazy Yanks think you are clever. I bet I can do it again in the Ukraine, smartasses.

Little Vladimir
Lubyanka Palace

Posted by: Michael on December 22, 2004 04:16 PM
70. I cannot accept the call for 'game-over' once the Dems have re-counted until the desired result. I cannot accept this result, but when and how do we stop the madness? Shall we count again so I get my desired (Rossi) result?? - we can easily swing 100 votes each way each time.

There is so little trust in the election officials and procedures. I'd like to see the two sides argue before the Supreme Court with a once-and-for-all final comprehensive case of claims and counter-claims (fraud, precinct 1823, malfeasance, etc.) We need to close the book on this one and get on with life.

Posted by: solierservant on December 22, 2004 05:17 PM
71. Have the Republicans gone soft? Get off your asses and recount every goddam tree hugging Democrat's tax return.

Tricky Dicky
moldering and still smoldering

Posted by: Michael on December 22, 2004 05:18 PM
72. I'm shocked, shocked, to see that somebody is double-registered in King County!!

Posted by: Michele on December 22, 2004 05:52 PM
73. OK Brain Sonntag, Put the actions where your mouth is. File for the investigation. Press charges. If you can’t then maybe our in coming AG can and should do it. To Democrat and/or Republicans, any of you dirty bastards that have cheated, lied, swindled, broke the laws or rules need to be dealt with. My minimum charge for punishment would be to have your names publicly posted at every primary and general election for the next twenty years to remind the voters who can't be trusted.

Posted by: DA on December 22, 2004 05:58 PM
74. The following are the definitions of the word, “Resident,” and related words, according to the Webster’s New World Dictionary, 3rd Edition.

+ Reside – v. to dwell for a long time; to live (in or at)
+ Dwell – v. To make ones home; reside.
+ Resident – adj. Living in a place while working.
+ Resident – n. One who lives in a place, not a visitor.

What dictionary is the King County Records & Election Office using for defining the word, resident? Better yet, what language is the King County Administration speaking? Apparently, it is not English.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the residence laws in the State of Washington require somebody to live in a residentially zoned location within the State for a prescribed period of time (three (3) months?) to be declared a resident. And students paying out of state tuition (for they declared they reside out of state at the time of Admission – as stated on many college application forms) are not residents of the State for they cannot become a State resident until they move their immediate family (usually, the parents paying the bills) into the State at a residentially zoned address for the prescribed period of time, drop out and move to a new in-state location (not a dorm room) for a prescribed period of time, or until they graduate from the school and move to a new in-state location for the prescribed period of time to become a State resident. The address cannot be a mailing address like a PO Box or private postal mail box, and has to be a residentially zoned location, unless it is a non-traditional residential location.

This is the reason why the Department of Licensing (DOL) mails your driver’s license (or State ID) to your residential address, and not the mailing address, to ensure and prove you live at the location. The mailing address is only used to receive notifications, traffic violations, court dates, and the like to the person, and State certified identification credentials and documents (including Absentee Ballots) to the residentially zoned address to prove the individual is residing at the location. People can list a Park as their residence, as long as the United States Post Office recognizes it as valid mail stop address. But then again, when is the last time you saw a public mail stop box at a Park outside of a US Forest Ranger’s or Park Superintendent’s mailbox - which, upon arrangement with Ranger or Superintendent can be done?

WAC 434-208-100, “Registering to Vote – nontraditional addresses,” does stipulate that a person registering to vote must meet all of the qualifications of a registered voter in the State of Washington and shall not be disqualified because of a non-traditional physical address being used as a residential address. These non-traditional addresses can be shelters, parks (as mentioned above), or other locations deemed as the voter’s residential address. However, the voter must meet all of the qualifications of a registered voter within the State of Washington (have a valid State of Washington sanctioned ID, PROVE they have been a resident of the State of Washington for the prescribed time, and more) and have a valid mailing address.

One of the issues is it is against the law to have a former residential address on a State sanctioned Driver’s license or Identification Card. If the person changes residence, the person is obligated by law to notify the DOL about his/her new residential address, whether it is a non-traditional address or not. If the identification does not display the current residential address, then the identification is not valid. (In some instances, a police officer can cite a person with a fine for not having the current or proper residential address listed for the identification.)

Don’t get me wrong, I believe every citizen has the right to vote in an election, including displaced people, as long as they are cognizant of their own actions and can prove they are citizens. However, for local and State elections, every voter must prove they are a legal resident of the state prior to voting within these elections. The way people are defining WAC 434-208-100 is it somehow defines the qualifications of a voter within the State of Washington. WAC 434-208-100 does not define voter eligibility, but simply states that voters shall not be disqualified because of a non-traditional physical address being used as a residential address. Thus, voters with non-traditional addresses still have to prove they are legal residents of the State of Washington for the prescribed amount of time in order to vote in local elections. Proof usually includes cancelled checks of rent payments at a residential address, a bank account (open or closed) with a local bank showing you had lived in WA State for a while, and old voter's registration card, etc. Without these voter qualifications, a candidate could drive in a busload of people from out of state, who will vote for the candidate, in exchange for a hot meal and blanket, money, or a job. This is called Electioneering, and it is illegal.

WAC 434-208-100 also stipulates that voters using a non-traditional residential address must have a valid mailing address. I did not know the address of the King County Records & Election Office was a mail stop or US Post Office with PO Boxes for private mail. Isn’t that a form of electioneering to validate a questionable voter with the address of Election Registration Office? Maybe I should list my private mailing address to be 600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC, and have the President of the US hold my mail for me until I get around to Washington DC to pick it up. In other words, that is an abuse of public facilities and cause for criminal investigation into possible electioneering fraud by a local government to defraud the public.

So without proof of State residency, valid WA State Identification (with a current residential address whether traditional or non-traditional), and valid mailing addresses for private mail, these absentee ballots should not be accepted into the recount, because we cannot prove these voters are real, or in fact, residents of the State of Washington.

Posted by: Eric on December 22, 2004 06:02 PM
75. Ho hee haw-- Dustinjames, you said x-tine was able to admit a mistake? Gee, I never heard her say it was WRONG TO BE PRESIDENT OF A WHITES-ONLY SORORITY!!?? I also never heard her say she was wrong to ask for new ballots to be counted , since she herself earlier said they shouldn't be. And let's face it, you wouldn't vote for Dino period because you likely only vote for democrats.

Posted by: Michele on December 22, 2004 06:49 PM
76. I hope Rossi does win, because many corporations and business have already stated they will pull operations out of WA state if Gregoire is elected. The reason is because the current business environment the State had developed under Democrat governorship is not condusive to its financial obligations (e.g. outrageous property & B&O taxes). We already have seen a large amount of large corporations pull out of the state, including the Eastern Washington for agriculture products (DelMonte, Hunts, etc.) who were here for our asparagus (outside of apples and Walla Walla Sweet Onions, one of our state's famous products) and other products. Many of the remaining corporations had decided to stay until after the elections to see who will win.

As they see it, Gregoire will represent "More of the Same Democrat BS," which employers and manufacturers are not tolerating anymore. Keep in mind, if there are no businesses to hire people, then people will not have enoough money to shelter, feed and clothe their children, let alone have enough money to pay the outrageous sales taxes.

The writing has been in the sand for the past four years (as demonstrated by the almost TOTAL Boeing pullout); however, the Governor election of this year demonstrates the writing in the sand has migrated to grafitti on the wall, and constituents, through their votes, are declaring they are getting tired of the same old political clap trap the Democrats have been feeding people for many years. It is time for the Democrats to put up or shove off, and Gregoire's platform for Governor has not changed from the same platform the Democrats have had the last 12 years - but with more new taxes - which we have unfortunately discovered during our State's economic downturn DOES NOT WORK!!!!

Especially the budget proposed by Locke will increase our taxes even more - somehow I feel like one of the villagers looking for handouts from Robin Hood sometimes. Rather than increasing our taxes, why don't our elected Democrat legislature vote to decrease their salary to generate State budget income instead? Call it a salary review after a performance evaluation.

(Did you notice that around 90% of the states that were experiencing high unemployment rates BEFORE Bush was elected the first time around, were run by Democratic Governors?) It makes one go Hmmmm.

The Democrats gutted the infrastructure out of the state. It's gone, and there is no way of getting back - bye bye. The citizen's of WA are starting to starve because we do not high paying jobs to pay for our high rents, over-priced food, and clothing.

So for the sake of Washington State's continuance of being, Rossi needs to be Governor or we will not have any jobs to feed and shelter our families. If Gregoire is elected, then the phrase, "Will the last person who leaves Seattle, please turn out the lights?" will more than likely come true because the remainder of our business infrastructure will be pulling out.

Posted by: Eric on December 22, 2004 06:53 PM
77. The "register the homeless" dodge was tried by the left 20-some years ago in Santa Monica, California. What's wrong with having to show some ID?

To get a parking sticker in my home town you have to prove where you live. To vote -- nothing.

The Dems will steal the Washington elections. Because they can. And because they are the party of government. Without transfusions of taxpayer mmoney, they wither and die.

Posted by: Grumpy Old Man on December 22, 2004 07:03 PM
78. Well, I was a PCO in Kitsap County for 2 years. My next door neighbor's daughter, who moved to Tennessee 10 years ago is still on the voters registration list. I tried to get her removed, but was told there was no way. She--by the way--is a DEMOCRAT!

Posted by: Bill on December 22, 2004 07:14 PM
79. Now, Christine trusts the process. What a boob and an exploiter and a person with NO character. She and the dumpstercratic party stuffing the ballot box with those they could care-less about. They cared more that their voting rights weren't violated, then providing them with better living conditions. What a bunch of hypocrites. I think I will go throw-up now.

Posted by: Walt on December 22, 2004 07:15 PM
80. "Homeless" people are the perfect Dem-dodge. They carry NO identification, have NO real address and thus can register in viritually EVERY PRECINCT!! Then just round 'em up in a van on election day and they can vote dozens of times. Never notice it in a landslide election, but in a close one they are cricial. The Dems are definately on their game. And NO election will be fair until we get a NATIONAL ID card system that is the ONLY way you get to vote!!

Posted by: Justrand on December 22, 2004 07:51 PM
81. Can we start the Recall Sims effort now? He's violating the Constitution with his rural land policies, and now it's obvious he's picked election officers who are wither incredibly incompetent and/or corrupt.

Sims is the latest exhibit of why Democrats should never be allowed to run anything -- they always make things worse.

Posted by: MES on December 22, 2004 08:05 PM
82. Eash person has the responsibility to help protect the integrity of the electoral process by guarding against fraud during voter registration.

* You must not lie about your qualifications.
* You must be certain no false information is given on the registration form.
* You must not register in two or more counties or states.
* Your must not accept payment or offer to pay another person a fee for registering to vote.

I wonder if these "voters" could be encouraged to spill the beans about item # 4?

Posted by: Splatter on December 22, 2004 08:22 PM
83. "Costco sues Washington State for lower beer and wine taxes..." This sure is a business friendly state. "Locke" out businesses like Boeing, now Costco? Maybe, with a little more nudging on the Democrats part, we can get rid of Microsoft too. Let us all rally around the "Dumpstercratic" party so we can get back to the old days, bringing back the horse and buggy and growing our own food. And they want to call themselves "Progressives"? What a contradiction in terms. And to think that I used to be a Democrat, a person that used to believe the crap they spew.

Posted by: Walt on December 22, 2004 08:55 PM
84. Bill: Report that to someone, anyone! The Times, Sam Reed...anyone! This state is corrupt!

Posted by: Michele S. on December 22, 2004 09:44 PM
85. I used to work in county government and this precinct was always a joke. There was always a "late run" of voters. A poll watcher for a campaign goes in about 7pm, finds out who hasn't voted and copies down the names. Someone asks the guys in Muscatel Meadows if they want to make a buck. They are given a name, they go in, sign the name in the book, vote, come out and they are given money. What's remarkable is there is no way to legally challenge this. If you are a poll worker, you must have "personal knowledge" that the person in front of you is not the person who is requesting the ballot. That is the standard under the law. If a person who looks 16 comes in, asks to sign the book and the name they request is there, by Washington State law you must let them sign and give them a ballot..UNLESS you have PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE that is not the person. You can't ask for ID. You can't say, "is that really you sonny?" And absolutely forbidden is the greatest election sin of all, asking a potential voter for identification. Washington State law institutionalizes the ability to commit fraud. The revolution begins now!!
The scheme above is several years old. They've probably got more sophisticated now.

Posted by: John on December 22, 2004 09:48 PM
86. Do you not care about anything? Are you willing to throw out all standards of honesty, just to win? You insult the Supreme Court of the State of Washington. Do you not believe in the law?

And on taxes: Why do you think Boeing left? Not enough roads! How are you going to pay for roads if you won't pay taxes? Would you rather live in grass huts in the mud?

Try to think a little. Try to imagine the consequences of your actions. You're not savages, for Heaven's sake!

Posted by: AnotherLiberal on December 22, 2004 11:27 PM
87. It's harder to get into the suites at Safeco Field than it is to vote fraudulently in King county.

Posted by: Michele on December 22, 2004 11:56 PM
88. IT SMELLS! Whether you agree with the results or not, the whole thing smells BAD.
The results have no creditablity at this point, especially given this county has had these problems in the past and Rom Sims promised us it would never happen again.
Criminal or just incompetence is unknown, but what is also unknown is what the truth is. Either way, I want to know who's head is going to roll.
Remember, on the east side of the moutains we are held to a very high standard of job performance at Hanford. Why should government be any different?

Bottom line, big government can NOT be trusted!!!

Posted by: bob on December 23, 2004 07:56 AM
89. Justrand- We welcome a national ID card system

H.Himler

Posted by: Gestapo on December 23, 2004 08:05 AM
90. Is it true we will have new voting machines by the next election? Also, would Logan and Huenneken be so sloppy loosing their TIME CARDS?
I see the same hack on this site as the king5 forum, dustin are you the (flip flopper on the issues) fry cook?

Posted by: CJ on December 23, 2004 09:38 AM
91. Justrand & Gestapo - We already have a national ID system - USA Passport - and they hyave already started the system with issuance of new passports.

Posted by: Eric on December 23, 2004 11:28 AM
92. rayko is not a legitimate japanese first name.

Posted by: matt on December 24, 2004 12:19 PM
93. Sigh. This kind of voter fraud is common country wide and has been going on for a long time. That is the bad news.

The good news. Technology the "the speed of information" is making this kind of "retail" voter fraud more and more difficult to get away with. I saw this growing up in FL. Nothing new here. What is new is that the GOP is starting to get a pair after being hit with a clue-bat over the last decade. Also the pajama-clad warriors of the blogosphere are getting the word out.

What needs to happen is to change (election laws), enforce (existing and new laws), verify (voting rolls), fight (every last "smelly" ballot), and don't be intimidated. If there is voter fraud and no one is out there raising all holy h311, then the grassroots has no one to blame but themselves.

WA GOP, don't get mad: get pi55ed off and WIN.

Living well is the best revenge. If that doesn't work, victory and you cheating opponents in jail for voter fraud works just as well.

So, when will we see the masses with orange banners be seen in Olympia and King County?

If the answer is "never", then sit down and shut up. You get the government you deserve.

Posted by: CDR Salamander on December 25, 2004 06:41 PM
94. THANK YOU, Senator John Kerry for your quarter million dollars donation early December. Who did that go to for getting the voters count done again? For all Kerry voters, you ought to be proud.

Posted by: Robert King-Ellison on December 30, 2004 02:58 PM
95. Ask any employee of W S U in Pullman. They were told that if they didn;t vote for Gregoire they would never see another pay increase!

Posted by: lkonen on December 31, 2004 10:35 AM
96. I wonder who the brainiac legislatures were who came up with this hair-brained Washington Law
434-208-090 which allows anyone at any time of the election year to "register" at a county courthouse, provided the person considers this his/her "place of residence"???????

I wonder how America has come as far as it has with numbskulls in Olympia making idiot-challenged laws like this!!


Posted by: eric m on January 1, 2005 11:19 PM
97. Precinct 1823, has any of you checked to see if this type issue is also on the GOP side??? I thought not!
I think the entire election is a farce and should be trown out, Keep Locke in office till a new manditory in person vote is held, by which every voter who wants to be counted goes to the polls and casts a vote. You must be a registered voter, a legal resident and not homeless, a productive member of society. Carefull scrutany by the Green party over the election and let the chips fall as they may. Let the best MAN win...

Posted by: Don on January 6, 2005 06:52 PM
98. Doesn't the federal elections code require proof of residence, a picture ID, no PO boxes, a physical mailing address cooresponding to residence, and no overseas mailing addresses without verification of citizenship in the registration of voters?

Posted by: Mark Beyer on January 11, 2005 05:31 PM
99. "Several of the other Elections Office residents give overseas mailing addresses, such as Anuj Rathi of Mumbai, India, Rayko Suzuki of Tokyo, Japan, and Pascal Engi of Bern, Switzerland."

Must suck to be an American homeless in India....

Posted by: Jesper on January 12, 2005 09:44 AM
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