The Seattle Times' David Postman credits me with finding what could be the "smoking gun" to overturn the election:
The latest questions about King County came after the elections office released on Wednesday a list of all registered voters in the county, broken down by those who voted and those who didn't. The Republican Party, among other groups, had requested the information as part of its investigation of voting irregularities.(I reported that here).Conservative blogger Stefan Sharkansky pointed out the discrepancy Wednesday, and by yesterday it was Topic A among Rossi backers and Republican Party officials.
Party Chairman Chris Vance said it could be the "smoking gun" needed to overturn the election.
The number of King County ballots counted in the final tally was 899,199 — 3,539 more than the number of participating voters reported in the county's list.
I'll personally hold off on calling anything I've found a smoking gun. But the unanswered questions keep piling up. Scroll down to Precinct 3301.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at December 31, 2004 02:04 AM | Email ThisHeh. The hypocrisy doesn't end. Does the reporter indicate that he, himself, as a journalist, is interested in pursuing the issues that you raised?
Posted by: Kitty on December 31, 2004 02:14 AMKind of sounds like it.
I recommend a new handle..
and email.
Posted by: Jim on December 31, 2004 05:00 AMMaybe because the reality that King County does not smell like roses is starting to sink in?
Posted by: Jeff B. on December 31, 2004 06:25 AMIt really looks to me like there's fraud going on here. Either that or the incompetence in Cook King County is so egregious as to demand a revote--these assholes have had eight weeks to reconcile those numbers!
Isolated human errors that tip a race this close have to be lived with in our imperfect little municiple fiefdoms... but not fraud or catastrophic failures of intelligence.
When one party has been in office for 20 years and there are 5,000 patronage jobs dependent on a questionable outcome like this, a very close scrutiny needs to be given a good number of election workers in Cook King County who have spouses and significant others who hold them. Polygraphs would be a good start.
This race makes the Ukraine look like fricken Mooseport!
Screw the Courts and Legislature, it's time to get the FBI involved.
I'm starting to move from anger to resolve. Everyone responsible for elections, from Sam Reed on down, is disavowing any knowledge of any wrongdoing. The wording is similar..."I have seen nothing that suggests to me that fraud has occurred." It appears that Sgt. Schultz has found employment in government.
I'm seriously irritated at the "good enough for government work" attitude displayed by Reed and Logan. No, it's not; your job performance is the root issue here. These election results are just a symptom. It matters little to me if we're seeing incompetence or fraud; either is equally unacceptable. What's more, we can't tell which it is.
Mr. Reed, Mr. Sims, Mr. Logan, it's not necessary for anyone to prove fraud to conclude that each of you have failed your public trust. It's time to seek employment elsewhere. What's more, I'm willing to help.
We're on our own. Thanks to Shark for what he's doing.
Posted by: South County on December 31, 2004 08:02 AMTypical Democrat, always expecting somebody else to do everything for them.
I have limited time, "Tom", I can only do so much myself. But the Democrats have at least as much talent as the Republicans, don't they? If you or somebody else takes the initiative to investigate other counties, let me know and I'll report their findings.
Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on December 31, 2004 08:52 AMAs my final blog before 2005, I have decided to award a "Balls of the Year" award. This award goes to the person with the biggest set of stones in 2004....and this years winner is.........Christine Gregoire, the newly "selected" governor of Washington state. She had the nerve to give the most hypocritical speech I've ever read in my 30+ years of life on this green planet. I will post snippets of her speech below. The only thing I regret is not being able to hand out barf bags to all who read this blog.
Her opening line begins the vast amount of lies
Well, an election night without end has concluded. The votes have been counted, the count has been certified and I am honored to stand before you as governor-elect of the great state of Washington.
Continued on……………
http://confederateamerica.blog-city.com/
Be sure to scroll to the bottom and check out her photo.
My sister reminded me the plot revolves around a gubernatorial race fraught with obscene irregularities, all of which favor the smug corrupt establishment female candidate.
Guess which state it was set in?
Talk about life imitating art. Fraudoire even resembles the fictional almost-governor.
Posted by: Jim on December 31, 2004 09:03 AMUmm... a little late there, don't you think? Shark wrote about this days ago. If only he'd been a faithful blog reader... sigh.
Posted by: Bleeding heart conservative on December 31, 2004 09:29 AMI am nonplussed, but not surprised, that you call me a typical Democrat. Democratic partisans have called me a typical Republican. I hope you noticed me suggesting a revote was the best thing several weeks ago and again today in your blog....would that still qualify me as a typical democrat?
No, I'm an independent. And I voted for Democrats and Republicans this election. I look for the best people...not the best party.
Of course you won't do the work to find an equal number of pro-Gregoire votes that weren't counted, etc. Because your goal is to further all republican causes -- not to enfranchise voters, follow rules or etc. Just as Goldy's goal is to do the same for democrats. And your suggestions, evidence and tactics change as often as the situation changes (as do Goldy's).
Both are good services...and helpful...but both you and Goldy are far from serving the best interest of our citizens as a whole. Together, they help a bit.
PS...I'm surprised when I show the hypocrisy of both sides, I'm also labeled a Democrat (by FedUp). I'm still wondering about the logic string there...
Posted by: tom on December 31, 2004 09:35 AMPerhaps you did not notice that there is one Sound Politics, and one Stefan working to unravel the mess in King County.
On the other side, there's a whole cadre of media publications that have not acknowledged any of the irregularities, with the exception of Postman and Jamieson. And there is an army of Democrats in King County working very hard to assure the outcome they would like.
The issue is that there has not been an objective result. We don't know the truth. There is indeed partisanship amongst all of the players here, but that's why we need a revote, so we can get an honest answer.
You're a Democrat. For one thing, you're whining about "hypocrisy" again--a sure sign of a donkey. Besides, only a Democrat would complain that Stefan isn't doing research on Rossi counties.
However, there's also a chance that you're a Green.
By the way, Tom, you forgot to give us the little lecture about how you don't believe in "labels," and how you're neither "liberal" nor
"conservative," and how you're an "independent" who looks at "the person, not the party" (oh wait, you did include that part). I guess you must be Mr. Non-Partisan of Washington state!
Please, Tom--you're not fooling anybody.
"Gail Phillips, wife of Metropolitan King County Council Chairman Larry Phillips, heard a neighbor talking about her husband on TV last week and decided to give the woman a piece of her mind...
"...Gail Phillips showed up "madder than a hatter" at Raymond's doorstep, Raymond said. Phillips objected to Raymond's pointed on-air questions. When Phillips wouldn't calm down, Raymond threatened to call 911 and then slammed the door, she said."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002136477_phillips31m.html
Posted by: Dan on December 31, 2004 10:42 AMConsider importing some Ukrainians to show us how to demonstrate the display of public outrage to the steps of the Capitol at Olympia, when the necessary paperwork to contest this election is submitted on Jan 12th. The polls already show the outrage at Gregoire's defiant attitude - her downfall ! So let's display it for the lemmings of the liberally biased press.
Posted by: KS on December 31, 2004 10:57 AMRossi is obviously next. By your own admissions here, Washington is following the lead of the Ukraine, so that the totally corrupt and losing Republicans will finally fold up their tents and go off into the sunset!
Posted by: Nelson on December 31, 2004 10:59 AMPress On!
Posted by: Robyn on December 31, 2004 11:06 AMI knew that when he didn't mount a legal challenge to the King County canvassing board altering those ballots by hand during the second count. How many ballots got thrown out in other counties because they were improperly marked?
Vance needs to go back to hauling garbage or whatever it was he was doing before he got into politics.. although I guess that would be redundant wouldn't it.
I have a couple OPEDs on my site www.derspiel.com by the way.
Posted by: Jim on December 31, 2004 11:19 AMThe issue is not just how many irregularities you can find. The problems are that 1) the votes were not hand-counted the same way in all counties (a violation of Bush v. Gore) and 2) that King County changed the procedures for hand-counting while they were counting (a violation of Roe v. Alabama).
Posted by: FedUpWithThis on December 31, 2004 11:37 AMI can't imagine how many other mistakes like that exist therefore making it very dificult to verify actual voters...
Thankfully they did count my wife's vote.
Posted by: Seattle Todd on December 31, 2004 11:55 AMThe GOP is trying to get this state back in the big leagues and to do it, we need professionals at every level.
Posted by: MB on December 31, 2004 12:38 PMThere was a crooked woman,
And she wore a crooked smile.
She had a crooked concience,
Besides the crooked smile;
She stole a crooked vote,
Which was her crooked fate,
And so became the leader,
Of a very crooked state.
There was a crooked woman,
And she wore a crooked smile.
She had a crooked conscience,
Besides the crooked smile;
She stole a crooked vote,
Which was her crooked debacle,
And so became the leader,
Of a very crooked Seattle.
It would be better if there are no more press conferences for either Rossi or Vance until there is either action taken to contest this election or it is decided that its time to move on (that would be disappointing).
Also, one last warning; with Madame Gregoire and the Democrat controlled legislature if they should ascend to power - hang onto your wallets and be wary of more fraud by State agencies especially DSHS ! Show your distate of this prospect January 11 on the steps of the Capitol !
Posted by: KS on December 31, 2004 01:07 PMBesides, I think Rossi is handling this pretty cool. Having Gregoire REMOVED from her invalid post will be like Gregoire having to getting up from the head of the table and moving to the foot. Seems like a fitting punishment.
The whole country is learning from this. Something just like it happened to Bush. Where is Bush? At the top! It's just how you respond to it.
Although…in my gut, I knew that the criminals should never have gotten away with the "finding" of the first 10,000 ballots in the original count. It was like having a silver platter of ballots handed to Gregoire.
So what do we do now? Continue to do what Stefan is doing. Way to go-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o Stefan!!!
It's going to be a sweet victory for Rossi. And Vance deserves “some” credit too.
If there’s anyone to pick on…it’s Reed.
Anyway the purpose of this post was to congratulate Stefan on his great work – a work that has now connected the “conservative bloggers” with the “liberal media”.
Wow. Maybe we’ll inadvertently find each other working together to get Rossi back where he belongs – as Governor.
Posted by: TADD on December 31, 2004 01:14 PMNo REAL Republicans were satisfied with the way that this election result was obtained, but alot of them are resigned to live with it. However, they will be back !
Posted by: KS on December 31, 2004 01:18 PM
On another note, I was admiring the prez county-by-county voting map of the US on www.derspiel.com...wonder how many dual actor votes were cast for Kerry in Los Angles, CA and Jackson Hole, WY.
What the hell are you talking about? I don't know any Republicans that say they are satisfied with the elections - and judging from the tone of your post, I know many, many more Rs than you. Oh, you must be talking about a few Republican politicians like Sam Reed, the man who admitted there were mistakes made.
FYI - we were involved, and we're involved now, and we're going to stay involved...unlike all the Seattle Social!sts who will now try to sweep all this under the rug.
You think Washington is a blue state? Then how did Dino Rossi tie Gregoire without us being involved? If she was such a great candidate she would have won by 200,000.
And you claim that WE have dirtied the election process? Who has been in power in Washington and King Cook County for the last 20 years? You're blaming the MESSENGER! You're the typical Seattle POS who complains because the cops make a difficult arrest. Ever thought of blaming the criminals? I didn't think so. Because we help expose all this crap you think we're the ones who took the sh!t in the first place. Funny logic, DD.
The condescension and arrogance of your post perfectly mirrors the national Democratic party. The difference between Republicans and Democrats is that when we were out of power, we took a good look at what we were doing wrong, and corrected it. You guys can't even admit yet that you're doing anything wrong! You have Homer Simpson syndrome: "Everybody's stupid but me!"
The elections of 2004 were the first since 1924 where one party gained House and Senate seats for three straight elections. You are out of power nationally with no end in sight. We'll win more seats in two years and elect another Republican President in four.
Seattle has always been 5-10 years behind the rest of the country, be it in politics, fashion, whatever. The rest of the country has turned red, and is getting redder every day. Guess what's happening in Washington? A Republican Gubernatorial candidate ties the Democrat? A Republican Attorney General is elected? Guess what, DD - Washington is turning red like the rest of the country. Here comes the Crimson Tide! Or should I say - the Crimson Tsunami!!
Cheers to you Stefan! I can't imagine the day when we would only have had the Times, PI, and tepid TV news to give us information. You have empowered our democracy more than you even know.
Posted by: Larry on December 31, 2004 01:24 PMWhat the hell are you talking about? I don't know any Republicans that say they are satisfied with the elections - and judging from the tone of your post, I know many, many more Rs than you. Oh, you must be talking about a few Republican politicians like Sam Reed, the man who admitted there were mistakes made.
FYI - we were involved, and we're involved now, and we're going to stay involved...unlike all the Seattle Soc!alists who will now try to sweep all this under the rug.
You think Washington is a blue state? Then how did Dino Rossi tie Gregoire without us being involved? If she was such a great candidate she would have won by 200,000.
And you claim that WE have dirtied the election process? Who has been in power in Washington and King Cook County for the last 20 years? You're blaming the MESSENGER! You're the typical Seattle POS who complains because the cops make a difficult arrest. Ever thought of blaming the criminals? I didn't think so. Because we help expose all this crap you think we're the ones who took the sh!t in the first place. Funny logic, DD.
The condescension and arrogance of your post perfectly mirrors the national Democratic party. The difference between Republicans and Democrats is that when we were out of power, we took a good look at what we were doing wrong, and corrected it. You guys can't even admit yet that you're doing anything wrong! You have Homer Simpson syndrome: "Everybody's stupid but me!"
The elections of 2004 were the first since 1924 where one party gained House and Senate seats for three straight elections. You are out of power nationally with no end in sight. We'll win more seats in two years and elect another Republican President in four.
Seattle has always been 5-10 years behind the rest of the country, be it in politics, fashion, whatever. The rest of the country has turned red, and is getting redder every day. Guess what's happening in Washington? A Republican Gubernatorial candidate ties the Democrat? A Republican Attorney General is elected? Guess what, DD - Washington is turning red like the rest of the country. Here comes the Crimson Tide! Or should I say - the Crimson Tsunami!!
Cheers to you Stefan! I can't imagine the day when we would only have had the Times, PI, and tepid TV news to give us information. You have empowered our democracy more than you even know.
Posted by: Larry on December 31, 2004 01:25 PMYou quoted the Supreme Court of the US saying this regarding Bush v. Gore:
"Our consideration is limited to the present circumstances, for the problem of equal protection in election processes generally presents many complexities."
But that means nothing special--all case law establishes precedent, especially S.C.O.T.U.S. decisions.
2) To D.D.:
You don't know your facts, and facts are important. You said Carter left office with a debt of $80 billion. WRONG! Carter left office with a fiscal year budget deficit of $80 billion. You don't even know the difference bewteen the debt and the deficit. But what the hell--you're not a fiscal conservative, anyway. You're just a troll.
Agreed that most SC cases set precedents. This one was intended not to. Here's a quote from an article that discusses this. It starts off:
"The Supreme Court's decision in Bush v. Gore was meant to be a ticket good for one ride."
And ends with:
"Legal experts said the court might well take the case to clarify the lasting power, or not, of Bush v. Gore; to show that it is equally sympathetic to challenges brought by parties aligned with Democrats; or to slap down the Ninth Circuit for its perceived impudence.
"On the other hand, the Supreme Court has ignored its decision in Bush v. Gore, not citing it in any case since then. That may mean the justices have no particular desire to plunge back into that thicket anytime soon."
So, I guess, at the very least, it's controversial. The full article is at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/16/national/16LEGA.html?ex=1379044800&en=9f4b3f66fbd1325d&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND
Posted by: Al on December 31, 2004 03:20 PMA three judge panel of the 9th Circuit had halted California's 2003 recall election on equal protection grounds -- 44% of the voters were in punch card counties, the other 56% mostly in optical scan or computer counties. The reasoning was that punch card voting made it less likely for someone casting a ballot to actually vote and more likely to make a mistake.
This decision was very soon overturned by a larger panel of 9th Circuit judges. I will try to look for any published decisions, and get back to you. I think the reasoning was that punch card voting had been around a long time, its existence and potential problems were well known, no complaints or lawsuits had been made about it earlier, the method couldn't be changed in time for a timely recall election, and the lawsuit simply was brought too late to deal with that election.
Posted by: Richard Pope on December 31, 2004 03:51 PMhttp://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/elections/svrepvshlly92303opn.pdf
In any event, California is still using punch cards, although in fewer counties.
In my opinion, the problem with punch card ballots is not the error rate -- which is actually a lot lower than optical scan ballots, as our state's two recounts demonstrate.
It is the psychological factor -- people are less likely to decide to vote in a given race if they have a punch card ballot, than if they have an optical scan ballot. A skipped race on an optical scan ballot stares blankly at you and demands attention. A skipped race on a punch card ballot is peacefully silent.
Rossi carried the 14 punch card counties by about 10% overall. Don't look for the Democrats to press for the elimination of punch card ballots in this state. Nor for Sam Reed to do so -- he doesn't want to upset any county auditors.
Posted by: Richard Pope on December 31, 2004 04:13 PMSo, what is your take on the use of Bush v Gore as a precedent? It does seem to get mentioned from time to time but my understanding is that the SC, by the statement I quoted above, did not intend for it to be used as a precedent in other cases. I probably don't have to mention that they took a lot of heat for that decision.
Posted by: Al on December 31, 2004 04:44 PMPlease answer truthfully. If the second recount found Rossi ahead by 100+ votes, and the Democrats founds lots of cases of voter irregularities akin to the ones suggested here, would you be equally eager for a revote?
My guess is that none of the partisans on the R side would answer YES to that question (if they were honest).
And as the roles are reversed, none of the Ds are asking for a revote.
Again, it's not about right/wrong, votes cast/not counted...it's HOW DO I GET MY GUY/GAL Elected???
Posted by: tom on December 31, 2004 05:06 PMThank you kindly.
Posted by: MB on December 31, 2004 06:12 PMI would be all for a revote if Rossi won, and the Dems found voting irregularities like these.
However, the Dems don't ever look for voter fraud, because (at least during my lifetime) the vast majority of fraudulent or otherwise tainted voting was conducted by Democrats, not Republicans. I'm not discussing the alleged (and thoroughly debunked) allegations of irregularities in the 2000 and 2004 elections, I am talking about cases with solid documentation, such as the 1998 Miami mayoral race (in which the Republican won the court-directed revote), the 1996 Dornan/Sanchez congressional race (CA), the 1996 Landrieu/Jenkins senate race (LA) and the 1994 Glendenning/Sauerbrey gubernatorial race (MD), all of which had reams of documentation of fraud committed by Democratic voters (not the candidates, but their supporters).
Posted by: timekeeper on December 31, 2004 07:27 PM