January 16, 2005
Brewing vote fraud controversy cheeses bloggers off

In Wisconsin, a vote fraud controversy is remaining almost entirely ignored by the media, and, as in Washington, bloggers are fighting to find the truth.

The sandbagging of registrations in Milwaukee almost achieved the desired result: Bush lost Wisconsin, although he won the election. One also wonders what local and state races were affected by this... It'll be interesting to see what comes to light as the blogs get access to documents and voter records.

Over at Boots and Sabers they're reporting:

Of the remaining 65,000 registrations for which confirmation cards have finally been sent, the Elections Commission says to expect that a full third of them, or about 22,000, will be returned undeliverable. This means that the address was incorrectly written or outright fictitious. Considering that most people know how to write their own address and the poll worker should have confirmed the address from identification produced at the polls, I would say that the majority of these addresses are just outright fictitious.
And at Brainpost, this:
Incredibly, of the 250,000 votes cast, 84,000 were same day registrations.
Rep. Stone received information from Lisa Artison (Election Commisioner of the City of Milwaukee) on Wednesday that only about 800 cards were illegible. That number changed to 10,000 yesterday!

We'll keep you updated. This is highly relevant to our situation.

Posted by Brian Crouch at January 16, 2005 10:54 PM | Email This
Comments
1. A litte correction, President Bush narrowly lost Wisconsin.

Posted by: Geoff Smock on January 16, 2005 10:39 PM
2. That ain't little Geoff!!

Posted by: Bleeding heart conservative on January 16, 2005 10:41 PM
3. To the guys in Wisconsin: You are awesome! Keep fighting to get the truth out--it will pay off! This is all part of a big spill-out that I belive could happen in other states, as it is here in WA. Thank goodness for bloggers.

Posted by: Michele S on January 16, 2005 10:43 PM
4. Good god guys get over it! Rossi LOST!

Posted by: Michael on January 16, 2005 11:03 PM
5. Gregoire's election will be set aside by the courts. Will you be able to get over that?

Posted by: Bleeding heart conservative on January 16, 2005 11:06 PM
6. horsesass.org has crashed. go see their website its really funny!

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Posted by: Larney on January 16, 2005 11:11 PM
7. Isn't it interesting how all the major voting irregularities seen to show up in the dem controlled big cities. What we need is for the republican congress in DC to come up with national standards that will take away the opportunity for anyone to cheat. I'm sure that republicans wouldn't object to fair and honest elections. The dems on the other hand....

Posted by: MBruceCamp on January 16, 2005 11:43 PM
8. Wisconsin 2004 is just a repeat of Wisconsin, 2000. The Dems stole it for Gore then.

Just like they did in New Mexico, 2000. But in 2004 the Republicans in New Mexico were much more vigilent, and the Dems couldn't pull it off in 2004.

Other places have seen the Dems stealing votes. Philadelphia. St. Louis. Chicago, of course. It's pretty clear that stealing elections by various but well-defined means is part of the Democrat modus operandi everywhere they can get away with it. They can't trust the electorate to actually vote for them, so they've taken to stealing votes. That's why they can so blithely and confidently accuse Bush of doing it, as in Ohio and in Florida, because the Dems know cynically by first-hand experience how easy it has been for them to steal votes.

I suspect that they've been stealing King County votes for quite a while. But it won't be nearly as easy for them to do it in the future.

Posted by: jay bird on January 16, 2005 11:47 PM
9. Brian--
Your tenacity has opened eyes around the Country.
I was born & raised a Badger.
I even wore my "cheesehead" to the Revote Rally in Olympia!!
Brian--the nationwide implications of what you are doing are immense.
I still believe that what we have here is gross incompetence by Election Officials in KingCo with Sam Reed trying to help out his former employee, Dean Logan, because Logan inherited a horrible mess and the County Auditors are somewhat of a "Good Old Boy" network.

Folks, I doubt seriously there was a "vast left-wing conspiracy". But there are certainly a number of individuals who did some illegal things that may rise to the level of FRAUD.

FRAUD is not the mealticket to a new election
Remember that....and repeat it often.

Hopefully we will see this lead to a complete VOTER RE-REGISTRATION nationwide!! We need stricter, more uniform voter registration rules.

Brian--has anyone posted the Washington RCW's and WAC's concerning voter registration? If not, this would be an excellent time. It shows how easy it is to possible register illegally. It also shows how pathetic KingCo has probably been in maintaining their Voter Registration Database.
Decades of BS have accumulated.
Time to clean-up Dodge!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on January 16, 2005 11:51 PM
10. (I will be slightly lazy, and post the exact same thing I posted in the previous thread. It is actually more relevant to this thread, so little harm done :)

Well stated Mr. Cynical! HAVA (Help America Vote Act) mandates that all states should have a central registry, and check new voters against the Social Security Administration records. But I also think a national registry would be preferable, and that all voters should be checked against this national registry.

Ideally, we would also have a national driver's license/state ID card registry -- and require that someone have a legal status in this country (also verified by SSA) to have a driver's license or state ID card. And make sure that no one can have a driver's license or state ID in more than one state at the same time.

And I wouldn't be opposed to an automatic voter registration system for anyone getting a driver's license or state ID card -- provided, of course, there is a national database with citizenship verification.

I also think we should have automatic employment eligibility verification. Each employer should send in information about new hires within 30 days of hiring. This new hire information, along with the quarterly unemployment tax returns, would be checked against the SSA database to see if the employee was eligible to work. If not, the employer would have to fire that person. An employee could appeal, and keep their job pending the appeal, but would be entered into the INS system (and deported if they lose).

Of course, the INS should also deport all of the people who they have final deportation orders against. If it was made impractical for employers to hire illegal workers, then a lot fewer people would come here or stay here illegally in the first place.

Not only do we have a voter security problem from illegal or fictitious identities, but we have a homeland security (in the literal sense, as opposed to the new federal agency sense) problem as well.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of interest groups, on all sides of the political fence, that want to make things easy for illegal aliens, for various reasons of concern to them. Employers wanting cheap labor. Ethnic organizations of various sorts. Politicians who want votes of ethnic groups and future citizens from those currently illegal residents. People who have a soft heart for long time illegal residents.

Posted by: Richard Pope on January 17, 2005 12:31 AM
11. I noticed on election night that many were amazed how many registered the day of the election in Wisconsin. I stated on David Wissing's Hedgehog Report the next day that this sounded fishy.

My suspicions were confirmed a month later when a Kerry campaign worker from New York bragged on C-SPAN that she led a group from her city to vote elsewhere, since Kerry was going to win New York easily. Guess where she said she was voluntering ... Milwaukee.

The Kerry campaign bussed in a huge crowd for their Bruce Springsten rally in Madison, Wisc. Due to the lax registration laws in Wisconsin, I would not be surprised that thousands stayed in Milwaukee. The polls in Wisconsin showed Bush with a comfortable lead.

Before someone quotes the exit poll conspiracy that showed Kerry truly won, remember they are only quoting the early polls. That final exit poll actually finished with Bush winning too.

Luckily, here in Oregon, we used to have control on registration. After the Rashneshes took over the town of Antelope by bringing in homeless to vote on election day, Oregon changed it's law to require prior registration.

Unfortunately, fraud only has to be pre-planned now in Oregon. Since registration and voting is done completely by mail, a "voter" does not have to truly exist.

Back to Wisconsin. Since it didn't effect the final outcome of the Presidential election, the Bush campaign was not even going to mention it.

Posted by: Ray J. Tuleya, Oregon on January 17, 2005 01:02 AM
12. If I remember correctly, the margin in WI was about 8500, which would be chump change for King County.

Carlson mentioned it several times as the results were coming in.

Posted by: scott158 on January 17, 2005 01:23 AM
13. Richard Pope

I certainly agree with your comments about the voter database / illegal alien issues.

We must know who is voting and we must stop the illegal aliens from flooding our country.

The illegal aliens are costing our country much more than they ever provide. I am tired of hearing about how big a contribution they make to our economy. It is a lie.

Let your congressman know how you feel about it. It is coming up in the legislature very soon.

Thanx......

Posted by: JimL on January 17, 2005 05:30 AM
14.
Good god guys get over it! Rossi LOST!

Translation: Stop digging before too many people learn the truth.

Posted by: Matt J Kurlander on January 17, 2005 05:39 AM
15. Anyone who has worked in elections for any period of time could tell you tales of substantial organized vote fraud in just about every large urban area dominated by a single party. VLWC? Not really. Its more that there are a bunch of dispersed local conspiracies that the natioanal Donk party is able to use toits advantage. In Chicago, the fraud meisters are probably more concerned with making sure the right aldermen and state legislators get 'elected' and the presidency is a much less important and tangential benefit from their activities.

Posted by: krm on January 17, 2005 07:20 AM
16. krm, I have two observations to what you said:

1) Large urban areas are dominated by Democrats much more often than by Republicans.

2) Going by our historical record, the Democrats' preferred idea of "election reforms" is to support same-day registration and registration and/or voting without ID. Republicans, OTOH, push for reforms that prevent double voting, voting by ineligible people, and so on.

I'm just sayin'.

Posted by: Bostonian on January 17, 2005 08:25 AM
17. Mr. Cynical said

Folks, I doubt seriously there was a "vast left-wing conspiracy". But there are certainly a number of individuals who did some illegal things that may rise to the level of FRAUD.

FRAUD is not the mealticket to a new election Remember that....and repeat it often.
In terms of legal proof in the pending court action, this may be true. In terms of people's opinions and the longer term, it could be misleading. Unlike a court of law, we individuals get to use the "lunch test" to form our own, personal opinions:
If it smells bad, it probably is bad.

It is people's opinions, formed in this way, that will determine whether they maintain enough outrage to keep this farce from happening again, and to keep the beneficiaries of this farce from benefiting again.

Posted by: Boonie on January 17, 2005 08:53 AM
18. Boonie--
I agree with you...
There is the Court of Law that will decide this contested election based on the facts and current laws.

Then there is the Court of Public Opinion which will try this based on facts plus emotion & feelings. If there is a revote, this is the Court that will make Rossi a clear winner. This Court will also force our Legislators to make serious reforms and clean-up our Voter Registration Lists and requirements as well as codify HIGH STANDARDS for processing and reconciling ballots counted.

I'm with ya Boonie.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on January 17, 2005 09:47 AM
19. This is moveon.org at work.

Posted by: South County on January 17, 2005 10:32 AM
20. I grew up in WI and had heard, through my family grapevine, that there was rampant vote fraud back there in Nov. Upon hearing this I searched the web and found nothing. It's interesting that this is breaking so late and that bloggers are the reason. 'Rat fraud in 2000 seems to have been a given, too. I shudder to think what may have happened last year if such fraud would have put sKerry over the top. This sort of thing needs to be stopped. Unfortunately, if we accept the authority of voting, we have to accept concommitant responsibility--such as registering well before an election, showing valid ID, etc.--to demonstrate that our votes are valid.

Posted by: Bill on January 17, 2005 11:26 AM
21. It seems evident that seeking to put in place a system that would effectively prevent fraudulent voters using national ID cards, cross checks of double voters in different states, etc. is difficult. But isn't this a case of "making the perfect the enemy of the good"? Yes, coming up with a workable, reasonably foolproof system with acceptable standards for enforcement and punishment is a stretch.

But are we forgetting that if the lax enforcement and lack of vigilence has encouraged flagrant and wide-spread flouting of the laws in Wisconsin and elsewhere, the very excesses that have occurred make catching significant numbers of these violators relatively easy? Surey catching and prosecuting some of these people will "send a message" in the course of bringing about at least some correction to the 2004 result. Small but real gains should not be underestimated in their importance to the larger scheme of things.

Posted by: RLG on January 17, 2005 01:15 PM
22. Correction: I meant to say "surely"

Posted by: RLG on January 17, 2005 01:18 PM
23. Surey catching and prosecuting some of these people will "send a message" in the course of bringing about at least some correction to the 2004 result.

Unfortunately, unless somebody is caught in the act of filing fraudulent ballot papers, prosecution could be quite difficult. After all, the fact that somebody with my name went around and voted in ten different precincts doesn't prove that I personally did so. Indeed, I would guess that many people who engage in this sort of fraud would be more likely to vote under someone else's name than their own.

Posted by: supercat on January 17, 2005 03:29 PM
24. Supercat,

Touchee! I concede that cheaters will try to avoid implicating themselves, preferring to utilize gullible snooks, encouraging others to cheat, etc. Also, there will be unfortunate instances of the innocent being wrongly mixed up in efforts to catch the real perpetrators. And you're no doubt correct in saying that proving fraud will be difficult. Being from Montana, I was just operating from the time-honored principle: "Give a man enough rope and he'll eventually hang himself!"

Posted by: RLG on January 17, 2005 04:23 PM
25. There was no "left wing conspiracy" but incompetency on both sides of the voting issue in Washington State. Gregoire did win after all legal votes were counted. Rossi lost even with the EScan voting irregularities favoring Rossi.

Posted by: nite sky on May 19, 2005 02:49 PM
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