February 15, 2005
Live Web Chat with Sam Reed

The Olympian hosted a live web chat with Secretary of State Sam Reed this afternoon from 3pm -4pm.

The transcript is posted here. He completely minimizes the ballot/voter discrepancy in King County:

They have military people not on record, address confidentiality people they can't have records on, so those numbers don't quite add up to the number of voters in the last election.
Fair enough, but the military and ACP voters were already accounted for before we got to the 1,800 net discrepancy. Amazing that Sam downplays a discrepancy that was 15 times the apparent gubernatorial victory margin as "don't quite add up". He does go on to allege that "King County has some very serious deep problems", without bothering to tell us what they are, or whether they could have altered the outcome of the election. He concludes by telling us what he thinks the real problem with this election was:
A frustration of mine as a person with considerable experience in the field of elections is that some of the rumors of errors, mistakes, illegalities, were absolutely incorrect, but because of the Internet, blogs and talk radio, they were circulated rapidly and extensively and helped contribute to the loss of confidence and trust in the system. I would hope in the future that the people who operate these blogs and the talk radio hosts will exercise the caution and ethics of the journalism profession, and that will help the citizery understand what really happened in the election process.
It would have been helpful if he backed up this assertion with some actual facts. Tomorrow I'll contact the Secretary's office to find out what exactly he was referring to.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at February 15, 2005 02:05 PM | Email This
Comments
1. I'm there now. Looks like Reed is moving pretty slow in answering questions. I think he is trying to bore us into be disinterest.

Posted by: DeadManVoting (aka Iguana) on February 15, 2005 03:03 PM
2. Stefan,

Pardon my ignorance, but where would one find the link to enter/view/participate in the "live chat" with Sam Reed?

Having submitted a "pre-chat" question (thanks to your "heads-up"), I would truly like to view his response.

Thanks in advance. And a special thanks for all you are doing in this Blogosphere.

Posted by: Chief on February 15, 2005 03:03 PM
3. Never mind...I'm there.

Posted by: Chief on February 15, 2005 03:05 PM
4. 7 minutes in and still nothing from Senior Reed?
Slow typer or is he consulting with his attorney?

Posted by: Joe on February 15, 2005 03:06 PM
5. http://www.theolympian.com/livechat/
Moderator: Do you regard Christine Gregoire as the legitimately elected governor of Washington?

Reed: I do because of what our system is. We had an election, a hand recount and a machine recount. That is how our system works. I also think the challenge is part of the system. I have not seen evidence that the vote should be overturned. They haven't gotten to that part of the trial yet. They do have a chance, but I believe the courts do not want to change the outcome of an election unless they have a compelling reason to do so. The judge in Wenatchee conveyed this in his last hearing he conducted on this, Feb. 4.

Posted by: Margaret on February 15, 2005 03:31 PM
6. Mark, Seattle: What did you think of the report on the election submitted by Dean Logan, King County elections director, to Ron Sims, King County executive and Dean Logan's boss?

Reed: I view it as kind of a high level summary report. If I were the county executive I would now ask for much more detail in terms of what happened during the election, because King County has some very serious deep problems that are going to have to be addressed by the county. This election once again revealed that the election operations in the state of Washington have some of the biggest problems, and they're going to have to committ the resources and flexibility to deal with these problems.

Posted by: Joe on February 15, 2005 04:07 PM
7. I've heard a lot concerning CG's comment regarding talk radio and her now undisclosed schedule. However, this morning I heard Sam Reed say a much more pointed comment where he stated talk radio and bloggers were responsible for masquerading false information as truth and thus misleading the poor soul that headed up the recall Sam Reed movement. Have I missed the boat or where is the anger over this statement? It was much more focused and clearly accusatory than CG's.

Posted by: Ethan on February 15, 2005 04:35 PM
8. I'm pretty fed up with alot of what Sam Reed says. I sure wish everyone could answer the questions that are actually asked.

For those who missed it.. here's his comment on blogs and talk radio at the very end of the questions.

Moderator: Anything, Sam, you want so say that you haven't had a chance to address? Any urban myths?

Reed: Actually, there is, you are right. A frustration of mine as a person with considerable experience in the field of elections is that some of the rumors of errors, mistakes, illegalities, were absolutely incorrect, but because of the Internet, blogs and talk radio, they were circulated rapidly and extensively and helped contribute to the loss of confidence and trust in the system. I would hope in the future that the people who operate these blogs and the talk radio hosts will exercise the caution and ethics of the journalism profession, and that will help the citizery understand what really happened in the election process.

Posted by: VR on February 15, 2005 04:48 PM
9. This is almost like talk show radios comment... Boy, he really slipped that in at the end. His assertions really need an example, fact, or more detailed explanation of what he was eluding to!

Posted by: Joe on February 15, 2005 05:36 PM
10. After reading the topic addressed by Ethan I see that Mr Reed would rather slam people than accept the facts. He definitely hopped past that one and made blogs out to be the bad guys. Frankly, without blogs the facts would have remained hidden and then no one would have been held accountable. False information, illegalities, mistakes, and errors being incorrect, my foot their incorrect. Anyone can see their correct, especially when retired elections officials say they "are" correct. And whats this about his assisting counties in not certifying until the totals are reconciled as was his duty? What about his duty to only accept certified results? Fancy footwork Sam but the voters will remember. I can think of 660000 who will remember on your next election and probably quite a few besides that. Of the 2.2% state error rate all but .1% came from King County. Thats not .2% or .02%. That is 2.1% from one county affecting the state. Investigate that Mr Reed, do you duty or seek the right office to investigate whether in the state or at the federal level.

Posted by: Mark Beyer on February 15, 2005 05:47 PM
11. Gee . . the Republican Secretary of State dislike you guys. That must be hard to swallow.

Posted by: dpk on February 15, 2005 05:53 PM
12. Does anyone have a link or file on the current laundry list of errors, mistakes, illegalities, and problems plaguing this election? Stefan, is this something you might consider adding?

Posted by: Mark Beyer on February 15, 2005 05:55 PM
13. SoS Reed: "I would hope in the future that the people who operate these blogs and the talk radio hosts will exercise the caution and ethics of the journalism profession..."

A cogent, semi-lucid reference to Dan Rather, the journalism professional that all bloggers should strive to emulate.

Posted by: JG on February 15, 2005 06:10 PM
14. Before I get accused by CG or Reed of stirring up emotions, remember I said "emulate" and not "immolate." For the record.

Posted by: JG on February 15, 2005 06:25 PM
15. It sounds like Sam is feeling the heat from the "Election Reform Forums" and doing a "Hillary-Gregoire" by trying to discredit all who attend the forums as being misinformed so that all the comments can be thrown into a pile and burned.
BTW Sam, am I supposed to take the comment about being misinformed as meaning that I'm Stupid? I suppose all those illegal provisional ballots just didn't happen? And that ALL the ballots in King County have been matched with VOTERS?

Is this the liberal spin coming from the SOS that claims all conservatives, when citing truth, are considered "uneducated and ignorant"
It's obvious that Mr Reed is suffering from some kind of memory disorder...possibly early onset of liberalism.

Posted by: Terry, Clark C on February 15, 2005 06:25 PM
16. Did any of you notice what Reed said in answer to "Vicky, Federal Way"?

He said it appears King County reconciled their ballot counts before certification.

"What I don't know for sure is whether King County has done the first, but it sounds like they have, believe it or not." [The first being the required pre-certification reconciliation. The second was the updating of voter registration records to show the date of the last election that each voter participated in.]

As is often the case, I offer a longer explanation here:
http://crokersack.blogspot.com/2005/02/did-they-or-didnt-they-do.html

Posted by: Micajah on February 15, 2005 06:31 PM
17. Sam answered my question.. Or did he?

Andrew, Vancouver: Some people would like to see expanded use of absentee ballots or even elections conducted entirely by mail. Critics of early voting say it would eliminate the impact of last minute events, that activists use absentee rolls to pressure voters and that absentee ballots are not truly "secret." Are the risks of absentee ballots and mail-in voting outweighed by the convenience and accessibility?

Reed: I believe that mail voting has advantages that are significant, but most important is a better-informed electorate who can take time, read documents and are not likely to vote for a candidate or issue they know nothing about when they have the time to deliberate.

(What? My wife voted absentee, I voted at the polls, we received our voter pamphlets the same day! She sent her ballot by mail, two weeks before I voted. Who had more time to study the candidate and issues? Its a good thing none of her candidates were exposed as child molesters at the last moment.)

In fact, mail ballots seem to be a pretty secure way of voting because we have more control over the ballot when it gets back to the county courthouse, more so than at a polling place.

(Finally a truthful answer! WE HAVE MORE CONTROL.)

The potentional disadvantages that the questioner poses are ones we hear rumors of but we have not had anyone prove.

(Oh, so now I have to "PROVE" the "RUMORS". Where have I heard that before? OK. How about pressure from activists? Here is Kirstin Brost spilling the beans again..

"Political people love the absentee voter. They're easier to track, and if someone is absentee, I've got three weeks to get them to vote, instead of just one day." She also said she seeks to "convert" voters from Election Day voters to absentee voters because they can "easily determine from county auditor's lists which voter's ballots have been received and which voters need another phone call".

Mr. Secretary, early voting early eliminating the "October Surprise" is not a rumor, it is a well known fact.

You didn't read past the word "Critics" did you Mr. Secretary?

Posted by: Splatter on February 15, 2005 06:38 PM
18. The politicians, admitting that talk radio & blogs are shaking things up is awesome news.

And, that's to darn bad. We expect you to do your job. The day's of the star struck MSM pampering KC & Oly politicians are OVER.

Listening to that jerk John Gibson the last 2 days, and the callers informing him, was very powerful. So many people KNOW the facts and are passionate about this. I am confident we are winning. Even if we wait until 06.

But that just aint gonna happen. Why is Phil Talmage talking out loud about throwing his hat in the ring? Why is Owen talking to the Daily O on what his position would be if he had to take control? Is something UP?

Posted by: chardonnay on February 15, 2005 06:47 PM
19. OK, I have to give Sam Reed credit for answering (trying to) my question. I respectfully dissagree. You couldn't pay me enough to deal with the loons in this state. I think you need a loooong vacation.

Thank you Mr. Secretary

Posted by: Splatter on February 15, 2005 07:01 PM
20. Thanks to sound politics.com, I understand more about "what really happened in the elections process" statewide than ever before. The process is being more carefully scrutinized, and more actual facts are getting out to the public. I'm hopeful that the facts will come out more and more in court, and that the blogs and talk radio will cover it as the watchdogs, not the lapdogs of government. I've been disappointed in the MSM and those who minimize the serious concerns about illegal votes and sloppy processes that allowed unverified "question-special-provisional" ballots to be counted etc.

Posted by: Margaret on February 15, 2005 07:12 PM
21. This from the Olympian yesterday:

Lt. Gov. Brad Owen contemplates a major 'if'
Capitol veteran says he would continue Gregoire's path if new election ordered

REBECCA COOK
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

But Owen's profile is rapidly rising as the legal challenge to the governor's election heads toward a trial.

If Republican Dino Rossi succeeds in his challenge of Democratic Gov. Christine Gregoire -- a big "if" -- a court could nullify the 2004 election, creating a vacancy in the Governor's Office and making Owen the temporary governor until a new election occurs.

So who is this guy who could be governor?

entire article :
http://www.theolympian.com/home/news/20050214/topstories/87983.shtml

Posted by: chardonnay on February 15, 2005 07:14 PM
22. Sam Reed = Arlen Specter

More enamored with Democrat approval than doing the right thing. Or worse, he actually believes he's done the right thing.

Posted by: dkpcowboy on February 15, 2005 07:57 PM
23. Maybe I am just dumb,

but has anyone been able to bring up the Secretary of State's page?

Posted by: ellas on February 15, 2005 09:32 PM
24. I've heard Reed on Carlson's show twice during this whole debacle. The second time he was on Carlson's show, he said some things that were definitely contributing to the tempo of this debate. It's unbelievable that he would make an accusation regarding talk radio when he has been a big participant in that medium.

It's also unbelieveable to me that many still don't get the simple concept of an accurate election. The outrage is that there are not more voices of authority calling for the same thing that the majority of the citizens want. A fair election. Even if the contest fails, the citizens know that just because that Dean Logan says that he has no way to remove felons or voters that register at storage facilities, doesn't mean we should live with an election process that was not as good as what just took place in Iraq.

There's going to be reform, if the people have to use the initiative to do this themselves, and I can gaurantee that many heads are going to roll in 2006 to address all of the foolish statements that politicians such as Gregoire, Darneille and Reed are making.

Posted by: Jeff B. on February 15, 2005 09:36 PM
25. Jeff B. said "The outrage is that there are not more voices of authority calling for the same thing that the majority of the citizens want. A fair election."

I believe intimidation by vocal minorities and radical activists have essentially neutered many public officials. The WA-MOB uses the promise of political security and public ego stoking to keep their people in line. The puppets dance while the theater burns.

Posted by: Splatter on February 15, 2005 09:57 PM
26. There have been a couple articles in my local eastern Washington newspapers stating that the next election would be a good time to try more mail-in ballots, like this is some kind of panacea for what happened in the 2004.

One article talked about having each county decide when they wanted to convert to all mail-in ballots. The impression being that most will use mail-in ballots, while only a small percentage would continue to vote in person, until we reach a goal of 100% mail-in.

I do not see how 100% mail-in will solve the problems of the 2004 election. It seems like there would be more room for possible "fraud."

Posted by: JG on February 15, 2005 09:58 PM
27. What part of Sam Reed isn't a Democrat?

Posted by: Keith on February 15, 2005 10:06 PM
28. I sent this letter to Sam Reed tonight. I believe his logic is flawed on who he believes is responsible for any loss of confidence in the election system.


Mr. Reed,
I was a participant in the Olympian online web meeting on Tuesday. While my questions were addressed and asked by a few others I did spend the entire time actively watching and reading. I thought for the most part your answers were well thought out. Until we got to the end and you finished with these closing comments.

You said:
"A frustration of mine as a person with considerable experience in the field of elections is that some of the rumors of errors, mistakes, illegalities, were absolutely incorrect, but because of the Internet, blogs and talk radio, they were circulated rapidly and extensively and helped contribute to the loss of confidence and trust in the system. I would hope in the future that the people who operate these blogs and the talk radio hosts will exercise the caution and ethics of the journalism profession, and that will help the citizery understand what really happened in the election process."

Your logic for who is at fault for the loss of confidence is seriously flawed and misplaced. I believe that blogs and radio shows are helping us to restore some confidence lost by those who perpetrated, contributed, or condoned the problems of the 2004 election. The blogs and radio shows have served to help get the message out about what went wrong. Nearly all of the stories reported on both mediums were correct and eventually picked up by other forms of media. Just because they are the first to break the stories does not place them in the category of rumors. Many of the issues we are now working to reform are issues that arose from discussions on blogs and on talk radio. They have also given us a place where we the people can organize to try and make real changes in the system in a positive manner.

Soundpolitics for example is a place where upcoming meetings/public forums are posted like the one at Highline community college, the Olympian web chat, and the county council member briefing as well as a place to debate election reform, and exchange ideas. This helps not hurts the confidence and trust in the system.

If we were without these outlets we would be left with Newspapers that fail to report even basic facts properly. See Ron Sims error rate vs. actual error rate as the most recent example. I believe the ethics of the local papers for their lack of investigation and fact checking in the 2004 election should be more of a concern then the ethics of journalism you question in the radio and blog realms.

In fact I sincerely believe that without radio and Soundpolitics blog these issues would have already been swept under the rug by the county auditors, local leaders, and our legislators. And we would be back to business as usual, acceptable error rates, and serious flaws in the system. Procedures that led to this mess that could be easily fixed, would continue to be left neglected. I won't stand for that, neither will most citizens, and participants on the blogs and radio talk shows, and neither should you! We will continue to be a positive force for change.

It is time to work together to close the loop holes and improve the procedures in place. The confidence and trust in the system is not being hurt by those who work to point out the problems and ways to fix them. It is hurt by illegal votes, loopholes in the provisional system, huge ballot irregularities at polling places, and most importantly by the people who try to cover up the problems and say things were fine, and error rates are acceptable.

Your closing comments today were troubling to me. My feeling from the reform meeting is that you seemed genuinely sincere about listening to the people to make the necessary changes. But your criticisms of the two media outlets that are the strongest supporters of reform really put your sincerity in question.

Thank you for your time

Posted by: Joe on February 15, 2005 11:52 PM
29. Joe,
Excellent response!

Posted by: Terry, Clark C on February 16, 2005 08:28 AM
30. Joe, wonderful. My sentiments exactly. I would hope for a retraction and apology though.

Posted by: Mark Beyer on February 16, 2005 10:54 AM
31. Can I post this?

Posted by: Spudboy on February 16, 2005 10:49 PM
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