We have a problem.
At Bonneville Dam on the Columbia river 40 miles east of Portland the sea lions - Californian interlopers - have discovered that it is easy pickings at the fish ladder. To enter the fish ladder the returning salmon have to funnel down to the entry. So have lunch is quick and easy. And a couple have even entered the fish ladder itself.
Story: Snacking sea lions scarfing up sparse Columbia chinook run
The salmon are an endangered run of chinook salmon. The sea lions are not endangered, but they are protected by the US government. Why are they protected? It must be very complicated, but they are cute! But since they are protected there are fewer options to stop them.
A problem for the class: An endangered species is..... correction.... Not an endangered species.... It is a population - those living in a particular location - that is being exterminated by a nonendangered species/poplulation.
What do you do?
Answer: You wring your hands and watch until all the salmon are gone.
(Mac Safari users select the time tag below.)
Why don't the responsible authorities do something? Because it would look bad on TV to shoot the guilty. And besides they are just animals.
And so the well-paid staff sets off fireworks and maybe sonar - but that might cause damage like those dolphins that ran aground somewhere. And they plan on building gates. Why didn't they design and build them last year?
In the early 1990s we had the same problem at the Government Locks fish ladder in Seattle. But we don't have the problem anymore. The expert explains their success: "The run we were trying to protect essentially doesn't exist anymore," said Steve Jeffries, a Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife biologist who worked with sea lions at the Ballard Locks and has consulted on the Bonneville situation."
(See "Failure at Ballard Locks in the same Sea Times story.)
So there you have your solution: Allow the nonendangered California sea lions to eat the endangered Columbia River Chinook until there are no more left. Then they won't do it anymore.
Another lesson from the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. And why are the sea lions protected?
Posted by Ron Hebron at April 18, 2005 07:44 AM | Email ThisCanal folk JUST love it when the Orca's come to town and troll through snacking on these throughout the Sound.
(whistles) here orca orca orca. here orca orca oraca!
Posted by: Andy on April 18, 2005 10:01 AMYou are full of BS. I fished that spring Chinook run in the past few years and it has been in record numbers - even with ALL the dams. Your effort to somehow project this onto forest practices or dams is just plain ignorant of the facts.
Posted by: VCRW on April 18, 2005 10:08 AMAnd doc, I vote for cheap, renewable and pollution free power over a few fish. Of course, I am of the rare breed that believes animals exist to serve humans.
Posted by: swatter on April 18, 2005 10:20 AMThe sea lions have no predators in this area. The shark/orca population is not up to pace with the seal / sea lion population.
Take a look at the deer population. No wolves, no cougars, and rampant breeding. Now they are like locusts.
Wrong again as usual.
The Northwestern Indian tribes are purse-seining the mouths of our rivers into extinction and everyone knows it. The problem is Indians not the white man goofus. Treaty rights allow them to utilize modern fishing methods with the same savage trash and burn mentality gained from their ancestors and they give nothing back. Fishermen pay through the nose to maintain the resource and Indians chew it up and spit it out.
You’ve been drinking from the liberal toilet again haven’t you?
Our small tribe spends over $700,000 a year on preservering, protecting and restoring river resources. All that for the three commerial fishermen left. I'd love to see that ratio from the rest of the fishing community. Maybe all fishermen should use the same technology at the singing of the treaty. Don't even talk about trash and burn and not mention the millions of American Bison that were left to rot on the Great Plains.
I don't have the numbers right now but I'll post them as soon as I get them as far a who takes what from the Skagit river system. you may be surprised.
Posted by: Suiattle-John on April 18, 2005 10:59 AMF^^king Americans.
Posted by: Aaron on April 18, 2005 11:13 AMThis was a natural event not controlled by humans in any way, but if liberals had been fully aware of the situation, and quick enough on their feet, no doubt they would have made efforts to stop the Orcas feeding on Seals. No wonder Orcas don't come around very often.
Liberals will save Orcas from Indians, and Salmon, Orcas, Seals and Indians from white men, but not Orcas from Salmon, not Salmon from Indians, and not Salmon from Seals? This can only mean liberals rank Seals as superior to Orcas, Salmon, Indians, and white men? I understand the white man part (always guilty); otherwise I thought liberals were for equality?
I would love to hear PETA on this. On the other hand . . .
Posted by: Amused by liberals on April 18, 2005 11:31 AMYou must be referring to the Bison left rotting by Indians hired to kill them en-masse?
Being an Indian of any kind holds no particular standing with me, and your clichés are silly tactics pretending to be arguments. Indians have as much if not more to be ashamed of in their history as white men. This very issue is a case in point.
All of the fishing areas in Washington State are maintained with Fisheries funds obtained mostly from fishing licenses, and Indian tribes all over the state use their treaty rights abusively. If they fished as they were prescribed to by treaty it would not be a serious problem. If they fished by the same rules as other commercial fishermen there would be no significant salmon problem either. I largely blame Judge Boldt for this problem, but that is not an excuse for the misuse of the resource by anyone-let alone Indians. If you want to misuse it I may not be able to stop you, but I can point to the real cause.
If your small tribe spends $700,000 a year on preserving, protecting and restoring river resources, for only three commercial fishermen, where does the $700,000 a year come from?
If your tribe is doing the right thing, congratulations, and you have my appreciation. Either way, your fellow tribes have made a hell of a mess that you are being forced to help clean up. If you live in Washington State, your tribe benefits directly from the efforts of the Washington Dept. of Fisheries paid for with my license fees. Do you have to have to pay for a fishing license? Of course not. Do I--like you--have the right to do whatever I like with certain natural resources (tribal lands)without any accountability to anyone? Of course not. I am required to pay through the nose and follow endless rules and reporting. Are you? Of course not!
We won't get anywhere by pretending the problem is dams and power plants, and I don't owe you anything because you are an indian. If you want to maintain fishing in Washington State for both of us, I'm with you. Otherwise not.
I don't assume all non-natives are guilty. That is just another stereo type I don't buy into.
All I’m saying is you can’t sling mud without having dirty hands.
Good, and Fair enough then.
You agree that a significant part of the salmon problem is associated with Indian tribes and their poor stewardship of the environment?
Posted by: Amused by liberals on April 18, 2005 12:52 PMThis is really no different than the Seattle area traffic problem. Environmentalists insist that no new roads be built, so cars sit on the highway polluting and pumping out carbon dioxide.
And, who do you blame? Humans for their need to have a place to live and to get around.
Posted by: DeadManVoting (aka Iguana) on April 18, 2005 01:40 PMVCRW -- your "record runs" include a gigantic percentage of hatchery fish, distinctly inferior to and different from the native runs and having their own ill-effect on the native runs. They are not adapted to the specific river systems and they lack genetic diversity, leadding to all of the problems associated with that.
The Snake River dams weren't put in for power. They were put in because the city fathers of Lewiston, Idaho decided they wanted to be a seaport. They wanted barge traffic. The excuse they used to get those dams put in was that we had to show the Godless Communists that we had an extensive power grid that they couldn't knock out. In fact, those dams produce less than 2% of the power in the Northwest grid and, hence, aren't particulary important to cheap power today. Moreover, the tax payers heavily subsidize the barge industry, but the dams decimated what was left of the native runs and helped wipe out a fishing industry, both commercial and recreational.
So VCRW, I very well may be full of BS but not on this topic. Nor are the scientists who have documented the effects of the North Fork clear-cutting and of the dams on this run.
Being an Indian of any kind holds no particular standing with me, and your clichés are silly tactics pretending to be arguments. Indians have as much if not more to be ashamed of in their history as white men.
I agree! The history of slavery among tribes is almost forgotten. NO culture is without atrocities especially Indians. Don’t blame the Indian as the only cause of the problem.
This very issue is a case in point.
All of the fishing areas in Washington State are maintained with Fisheries funds obtained mostly from fishing licenses, and Indian tribes all over the state use their treaty rights abusively.
Accusations, where are the facts? Tribes spend several million dollars a year maintaining fish habitats.
If they fished as they were prescribed to by treaty it would not be a serious problem.
Treaty of Point Elliott, 1855
ARTICLE 5.
The right of taking fish at usual and accustomed grounds and stations is further secured to said Indians in common with all citizens of the Territory, and of erecting temporary houses for the purpose of curing, together with the privilege of hunting and gathering roots and berries on open and unclaimed lands. Provided, however, That they shall not take shell-fish from any beds staked or cultivated by citizens.
I don’t see any mention of how either side will fish. I’m not a lawyer so I really don’t understand the full meaning of “Indians in common with all citizens of the Territory” If you could explain that part to me I would appreciate it.
If they fished by the same rules as other commercial fishermen there would be no significant salmon problem either. I largely blame Judge Boldt for this problem, but that is not an excuse for the misuse of the resource by anyone-let alone Indians. If you want to misuse it I may not be able to stop you, but I can point to the real cause.
You haven’t pointed to the cause yet. I will give you this, the abuses I’ve seen are the wholesale gutting of salmon to harvest eggs and leaving the remains on the bank. Other than child and wife abuse, I can’t think of anything I hate worse.
If your small tribe spends $700,000 a year on preserving, protecting and restoring river resources, for only three commercial fishermen, where does the $700,000 a year come from?
Gaming funds and grants.
If your tribe is doing the right thing, congratulations, and you have my appreciation. Either way, your fellow tribes have made a hell of a mess that you are being forced to help clean up. If you live in Washington State, your tribe benefits directly from the efforts of the Washington Dept. of Fisheries paid for with my license fees. Do you have to have to pay for a fishing license? Of course not.
Hold on my license was paid for in the first Article.
ARTICLE 1.
The said tribes and bands of Indians hereby cede, relinquish, and convey to the United States all their right, title, and interest in and to the lands and country occupied by them, bounded and described as follows: Commencing at a point on the eastern side of Admiralty Inlet, known as Point Pully, about midway between Commencement and Elliott Bays; thence eastwardly, running along the north line of lands heretofore ceded to the United States by the Nisqually, Puyallup, and other Indians, to the summit of the Cascade range of mountains; thence northwardly, following the summit of said range to the 49th parallel of north latitude; thence west, along said parallel to the middle of the Gulf of Georgia; thence through the middle of said gulf and the main channel through the Canal de Arro to the Straits of Fuca, and crossing the same through the middle of Admiralty Inlet to Suquamish Head; thence southwesterly, through the peninsula, and following the divide between Hood's Canal and Admiralty Inlet to the portage known as Wilkes' Portage; thence northeastwardly, and following the line of lands heretofore ceded as aforesaid to Point Southworth, on the western side of Admiralty Inlet, and thence around the foot of Vashon's Island eastwardly and southeastwardly to the place of beginning, including all the islands comprised within said boundaries, and all the right, title, and interest of the said tribes and bands to any lands within the territory of the United States.
What kind of price tag would you put on the Northwestern fourth of Washington? I think my family negotiated very well.
Do I--like you--have the right to do whatever I like with certain natural resources (tribal lands)without any accountability to anyone? Of course not.
Hold on we have an entire CFR (25) that we are accountable to. You don’t.
I am required to pay through the nose and follow endless rules and reporting. Are you? Of course not!
I already spoke to the price paid
We still have the same state reporting requirements. Would you have Idaho regulate Washington fishing? Of course not.
We won't get anywhere by pretending the problem is dams and power plants, and I don't owe you anything because you are an indian.
I agree dams and power plants aren't the issue. You haven't even touched the Asian and Russian commercial factory ships. You’re right you don’t owe me anything. The government just needs to keep their end of the agreement. We sold you the land and property rights in return for these treaty rights. If you don’t like the deal then give me the land and property rights back..
If you want to maintain fishing in Washington State for both of us, I'm with you. Otherwise not.
No fears about supporting fishing on my side commercial or sport. I don’t want to just maintain fishing I want to improve fishing. My fondest memories are pulling out a dolly with my grandpa yelling “easy does it Johnny”
Posted by: Suiattle-John on April 18, 2005 02:09 PMScott C - Ditto, you hit the nail on the head, I think even docbenton can agree with your comments.
Posted by: Jeffro on April 18, 2005 04:28 PMThis has nothing to do with "liberalism" or "conservatism." It's just science, guys, applied to bad policy choices.
Posted by: docbenton on April 18, 2005 10:15 PMOr let the Native Americans deal hunt them. It can be a win-win situation, but that's asking way too much. The Leftists and the ACLU would squeal like stuck pigs.. They are useless as teets on a boar - to throw out some shameless humor. Hey, there's always the nuclear option...
Posted by: KS on April 18, 2005 10:16 PMdocbenton- environmentalism is your religion. It's time that you learned the difference between theory and fact supported by sound scientific proof. Until then, your so called science is hot air.
Posted by: Jeffro on April 19, 2005 08:31 AMNice try,
However, bulk alone doesn’t make up for lacking substance.
“Bison left rotting” is a clichéd irrelevancy. Anyone can pick out favorite anecdotes intended to blur an issue. If you want to be treated with respect, first give it.
Your over-sensitivity is more revealing than my original statement. I don’t blame the Indian as the only cause of the problem.
Tribes spend several million dollars a year maintaining fish habitats? The combined Federal and Washington State fisheries budget is in the billions not millions of dollars, and much—if not all--of the money you refer to came from public sources.
Treaty of Point Elliott, 1855, is irrelevant. You don’t see any mention of how either side will fish? You aren’t thinking; it isn’t the strict legality of a treaty that is important, but the outcome of using modern fishing techniques improperly and thus seriously depleting a salmon resource that is at issue. If by virtue of treaty alone you are allowed to dump toxic waste into all of the Washington’s streams—is it O.K. for you to do so?
“Indians in common with all citizens of the Territory” Might mean that if I must follow prescribed fishing rules for the sake of the greater concern—the fishing habitat—maybe Indians should as well—despite and indeed in contrary to “Treaty” rights.
Gutting of salmon to harvest eggs and leaving the remains on the bank are nothing compared to improper use of modern fishing equipment. I earlier clearly discussed the use of purse seiners and trawlers which are employed by Indian tribes in many areas including Sekiu when no other commercial fishermen are allowed to fish.
If your small tribe receives $700,000 extra from gaming funds and grants that you can use to preserve, protect and restore river resources, you are doing quite well. Maybe you should look at the whole fish habitat resource depletion problem rather than isolated instances of brutish thoughtlessness.
Bu22$hit, ARTICLE 1 isn’t a license and you know it.
I don’t have time to read 25 CFR, but I would love to hear about the last time someone came on your land and enforced 25 CFR against your tribe. The MSM would be wild with stories of “abuse to Indian tribes,” and over-reaching Federal power. I don’t buy it.
You said nothing about any price paid by you, but a supposed price paid by your tribe. I am required to pay through the nose and follow endless rules and reporting. You do not have the same state game reporting requirements as a non-Indian.
I appreciate that you agree that power plants aren't the issue and you are correct that the Asian and Russian commercial factory ships are a problem. You’re also right that I don’t owe you anything. This isn’t about treaties or governments, it is about fishing habitat.
You didn’t sell me anything pal, and neither did your tribe, and you know as well as I that I can’t give it back to you. In the first place, it never belonged to you, and if it ever had, given the way it is managed by Indian tribes now, there is no reason to believe that it would be any better off. No, I don’t like the deal, but again—that is utterly irrelevant, inflamatory, and useless talk.
The sum of your response is red-herrings (no pun intended) irrelevancies and tu quoque self conscious finger pointing back instead of engaging the problem. If you don’t believe that depletion of the salmon resource occurs because of the irresponsible use of modern equipment, especially by Indian tribes, I can’t force you to admit it. You have succeeded in forcing this issue into the background of historical racial enmity, treaty law and blame. In that event it is clear that caring to maintain fishing in Washington State is not the issue for you. That is a shame, but it doesn’t change the facts.
If you actually care about the environment, you might consider bringing your tribe up to the current day. Treaties are not relevant today, especially where the concern for habitats is so serious. People like DocBenton and his absurd Liberal radical environmentalism are the driving forces that will ruin everything for all of us. They believe that the internal combustion engine is causing global climate changes, and we should phase them out because a handful of pseudo-scientists backed by a huge group of opportunistic politicians say so—and yet there is not one shred of scientific evidence that their claim has any validity.
Liberals love it when people like you talk about killing Bison, and blame, and resentment, and treaties, and laws, because they can use it to take from you and me alike. Liberals are fascists who look to the power they can seize rather than any problems they can solve. Our fishing habitat is being destroyed because of them more than anything, and I believe that Indian tribes are unwittingly assisting in this effort through a blind insistence on "having their way". Divide and conquer is their primary way of seizing power, and democrats don’t give a damn about Indians or Indian rights except as a pretext to make appearances of fairness. Liberal propaganda is the problem, and saving vital resources is the objective.
I had a grandfather that cared about fishing as well, and fully earned the right to fish. His legacy to me is as important as yours from yours will ever be. If we are not careful, we may both have it taken away by a common enemy—liberal radical environmentalism.
and you'll likely disagree, not all liberals think alike and want to take what you have. Coincidently, I grilled bison burgers last night; 43g of protein, 10g of fat, hard to beat. Admittedly, some liberals would hate me for that, some wouldn't. We don't march lock-step.
Posted by: CandrewB on April 19, 2005 12:01 PM