May 18, 2005
YELLING FIRE IN A CROWDED THEATRE??

Newsweek’s mea culpa over its unconfirmed story regarding the desecration of the Koran by a guard at Guantanamo is falling on deaf ears in the Main Stream Media (“MSM.”)

While Newsweek has retracted the story, its publication ultimately resulted in the deaths of innocent people in Afghanistan. Is it fair to compare the publication of an unconfirmed inflammatory story as the equivalent of yelling fire in a crowded theatre?

Both the editorial boards for the Seattle Times and Seattle Post-Intelligencer poo-poo the false story as either merely a “journalistic error” not responsible for any deaths, or as an object lesson where President Bush might “consider admitting mistakes” in the Iraq war.

Columnists, like Robert Jamieson, are concerned about the integrity of the press. Jamieson’s message is that highly critical stories (of the Bush administration) can be published without making up facts. But what Jamieson doesn’t understand is that the integrity of the press is not being killed by false facts but by a liberal bias. It is this bias which reporters seek to confirm by making up facts and stories.

How else do you explain the use of a forged document by CBS as the basis for a story on Bush’s national guard service just prior to the presidential election? How do you explain Newsweek’s different treatment of President Bush and Clinton? When Newsweek had a verified story that President Clinton was having sex with an intern, Newsweek chose not to publish it. It was left up to alternative media sources (the internet) to break the story. Yet Newsweek chooses to run with an unconfirmed story criticizing the Bush administration’s alleged interrogation techniques of captured insurgents.

If Newsweek is not responsible for the deaths of innocent people in Afghanistan, it (and other MSM outlets like the Seattle Post-Intelligencer) is most definitely responsible for killing the integrity of the press with its liberal bias.

Cross-posted at www.litigarchy.com.

Posted by Tim Ford at May 18, 2005 10:26 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Tim, I point you toward this diary at Daily Kos:

The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Richard Myers, in a U.S. State Dept.-issued press release on May 12, said the Newsweek story isn't a chief cause of the riots: " [H]e has been told that the Jalalabad, Afghanistan, rioting was related more to the ongoing political reconciliation process in Afghanistan than anything else."

I've found four reports -- with more easily found -- to back up Newsweek's sources on the desecration of Korans belonging to Guantanamo detainees. The four instances I found...

Also see this comment from Juan Cole.

You can't accept everything this Administration says at face value. In fact, I accept nothing this administration says at face value. I look to see whether what they're saying has any bipartisan support before believing it's true. I'm sorry, it's just that I feel like I've been lied to by these people. Do you honestly think they are capable of telling the truth 100% of the time? If so, I feel sorry for you.

Posted by: Trilomax on May 18, 2005 10:32 AM
2. Tmax,
I wonder if you believe that can take anything News Max, or the other MSM at face value. If so, I feel sorry for you as well. Unvetted, single sourced stories that even if they didn't spark the rioting, added to the ammunition the rabble will use for the next decade to fuel their hatred for Americans.

Posted by: Jim L on May 18, 2005 10:40 AM
3. This issue is not about the bush administration and their propensity or lack therof to lie. It's not even about Newsweek and their lying really.. The issue is about wackos over in Afghanistan and whereever who get their panties in a bunch just because of a rumor about a book and a toilet and feel they need to cause violence and kill their countrymen because of this.

Look, if I put a Bible in a pile of s***, it's considered art, and no Christians will riot and start killing their countrymen. So what gives? Clearly the problem is with the wacko's committing the violence - Newsweek's lies notwithstanding.

Posted by: JustSumGuy on May 18, 2005 10:42 AM
4. News Week, not news max, my humble apology for the brain fart

Posted by: Jim L on May 18, 2005 10:43 AM
5. What I find disgusting is the hypocrisy! With the prison scandal Newsweek (along with all the MSM) covered over and over and over.... again blaming Rumsfeld and Bush directly. The silence now or at best saying it was an "honest mistake" is pure (*^%! The mistake of a few soldiers in Abu Ghrab (sp) who are now being punished is Bush's fault. A few people get humiliated and it warrants weeks of front page stories, the (genuflect here) MSM makes a mistake where people get killed and, aahhh shucks, we made a mistake. Time to search for some other single anonymous lead to make up something about Bush.
If they are so stupid to think that desecrating a holy book would not add gasoline to the fire they are more ignorant than I thought. On the other hand their complete distain for religion and zero concept of what it means to people it is possible.

Posted by: Fred on May 18, 2005 11:02 AM
6. "The issue is about wackos over in Afghanistan and whereever who get their panties in a bunch just because of a rumor about a book and a toilet and feel they need to cause violence and kill their countrymen because of this."

Exactly.

And the sooner we stop apologizing - and blaming ourselves - for the actions of these savages, the sooner we can get on with eliminating their threat, or welcoming them to the 21st Century - their choice.

Posted by: jimg on May 18, 2005 11:02 AM
7. You haven't even scratched the surface here. The intriguing question is who the little rat source is that later backed away from his/her story. As for whether or not the media is reliable, did your parents never tell you, "Don't believe everything you read in the newspaper/see on TV".

As for the "enlightened few" like T-max, just where are we supposed to get ahold of these "independent" sources you are talking about?

I'm sorry, but my crystal ball is broken for the moment, so maybe someone who's is still working can shed light on this. Why shouldn't we believe what our government tells us? Are reports put out by the State Department and USAID considered "independent" or do you mean an independent "liberal-biased" source?!?

We've been following both stories very closely at Respectfully Republican and Head West, Turn Right.

Posted by: Patrick E. Bell on May 18, 2005 11:03 AM
8. Well, well, Jim L. You 'fessed up before I could catch you. NewsMax, indeed. That's probably one of the few places you get your news.

This story, this allegation, doesn't have only a single source. I'm not talking about Newsweek's report, I am talking about the STORY itself.

Did you even read what I posted? Hence, the entire point. There are multiple sources for these allegations. There have been many reports before this. The Muslim world didn't hear about it until Newsweek reported it because Newsweek has a wide circulation.

JustSumGuy - you are right about the overreaction. They're way overzealous about what happens to a book. But the story isn't a lie.

Blaming a magazine story for deaths abroad is irresponsible. Scott McClellan should be ashamed. Actually, Scott McClellan should resign.

Posted by: Trilomax on May 18, 2005 11:04 AM
9. Oh, and quotes from Kos and Juan Cole as some sort of gotcha? What? Couldn't find Chomsky's latest?

Posted by: jimg on May 18, 2005 11:06 AM
10. Here, Trilo. This is what's called an objective source. Try it sometime.

Remember this when you choose to believe the jihadis over your fellow countrymen. The 'brother' would be one of those nice fellows from the Religion of Peace.

http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/trainingmanual.htm

In part says:

"IF AN INDICTMENT IS ISSUED AND THE TRIAL, BEGINS, THE BROTHER HAS TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE FOLLOWING:

1. At the beginning of the trial, once more the brothers must insist on proving that torture was inflicted on them by State Security [investigators] before the judge.

2. Complain [to the court] of mistreatment while in prison.

3. Make arrangements for the brother’s defense with the attorney, whether he was retained by the brother’s family or court-appointed.

4. The brother has to do his best to know the names of the state security officers, who participated in his torture and mention their names to the judge. [These names may be obtained from brothers who had to deal with those officers in previous cases.]

5. Some brothers may tell and may be lured by the state security investigators to testify against the brothers [i.e. affirmation witness], either by not keeping them together in the same prison during the trials, or by letting them talk to the media. In this case,they have to be treated gently, and should be offered good advice, good treatment, and pray that God may guide them.

6. During the trial, the court has to be notified of any mistreatment of the brothers inside the prison."

Posted by: jimg on May 18, 2005 11:11 AM
11. Anyone else find it "interesting" that Trilo dismisses (even a mistaken reference to) NewsMax but his (her...?) sources are Daily Kos and Juan Cole?

Political Bias at its finest!

Thanks Trilo...you've shown your stripes. Guess I've now shown mine.

Posted by: Matt on May 18, 2005 11:14 AM
12. Winner of the best line I've heard all week about this episode came from a listener to Laura Ingraham's show:

Heck, flushing the Koran down the toilet in THIS country would win an NEA grant!

Posted by: M on May 18, 2005 11:16 AM
13. Waiting for the fat, bloated, drunken, swimmer Ted Kennedy to open his big, fat, vodka stinkin' mouth to lambaste Newsweek for their irresponsibility. He seemed to have plenty to say about Abu Graib. Hmmm - maybe he just needs to sober up.

Posted by: Jeffro on May 18, 2005 11:20 AM
14. Trilomax,
To use the words of your own party, "Get over it". This story is no different than the story of
G. H. Bush (41) taking an SR-71 to Iran before the 1981 election to make a deal with the Iranians. You can go about and cite all the liberal sources you want but this execise of Joseph Goerbels (sp?) journalism will not fly. It is unlikely that you will get Harry Reid (D) to stand up in congress and say, "the seriousness of the alegations warrents further investigation." This story is being seen for what it is, "a story" not fact.

Posted by: Mike P on May 18, 2005 11:30 AM
15. As Trilomax points out, in a briefing on Thursday, Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff - i.e. the big cheese in this administration military - had said that the senior commander in Afghanistan believed the protests had stemmed from that country's reconciliation process.

"He thought it was not at all tied to the article in the magazine," General Myers said.

Have you even seen the article? This news has been reported multiple times by others in the past few months. If anyone is to blame for the response to the revelations it is those responsible for authorizing such practices and or any similar practices. Don't shoot the messenger.

Posted by: Daniel K on May 18, 2005 11:36 AM
16. Sorry, it is the 1980 election cycle. it was in 1981 when Tom Foley stated "the seriousness of the alegations warrents further investigation."
But this story follows the J.G. model; Tell a lie, tell a big lie and tell it often.

Posted by: Mike P on May 18, 2005 11:37 AM
17. What this boils down to is a biased MSM that is salivating atht eh chance to see the country humiliated and defeated. Even today, after EVEN NEWSWEEK retrated the lie, liberal goose steppers like Trilomax are trying to push the lie.

This is why when people are polled, the say the media is untrustworthy. That is why viewership and readership is plunging.

Posted by: pbj on May 18, 2005 11:48 AM
18. DanielK,

" Don't shoot the messenger."

But what about the lying reporter?

Posted by: pbj on May 18, 2005 11:49 AM
19. If such a thing as "soft power" does exist, we need to get a better control of what our "free press" exports to the world.

True, the hatred of America may already exist aborad, but why incite more? Further, our media is largely responsible for the negative images surrounding America, that is to say they are the propagaters and exporters of mainly "negative" information to the world.

We may never know if Qurans have been desecrated, but for those of you who think such desecration is "non-sense" anyways, I'll pray that you wake up from your own stupidity.

Posted by: Patrick E. Bell on May 18, 2005 11:50 AM
20. Bogus...BS...typical of Newsweak and it's ilk in the MSM. Anything to demorilize the public, our troops and to danage the Bush administration. The libs just can't get over losing.

Tmax & Danile K have stated that they believe the "story" cuz its been reported before and if the Bush Administration says the "story" is untrue...well then the "story" MUST be true cuz the Bush Administration only tells lies!!
Geeze...haven't you people learned that yet??
"Bush lied and people died"...REMEMBER??

BS...Newsweak only reported (read made up) this cuz they thought they could create another scandal ala Abu Ghraib. This was like pouring gas on an open fire...what did they expect?....Idiots.

Posted by: BlueKnight on May 18, 2005 12:27 PM
21. Would it be OK to shoot the trollish apologist!

Posted by: alphabet soup on May 18, 2005 12:29 PM
22. From Tmax: "I've found four reports -- with more easily found -- to back up Newsweek's sources on the desecration of Korans belonging to Guantanamo detainees."

..if we wanna get legal about it, the Korans did not belong to the detainees. The were provided by the US Goverment. Being US property they could be taken away or even "flushed" for that matter. And just how the heck do ya do that anyway? Must be some gawd-awful powerful terlits down thar in Coooba.

Posted by: BlueKnight on May 18, 2005 12:38 PM
23. So what if the Newsweak article is true? What if some US guard did somehow manage to flush a copy of the koran down the toilet? Would that be wrong? Is there a law against that? Should there be? Should that guard be fired? Should it be made illegal to flush koran's down toilets?

Just wondering...

Posted by: JustSumGuy on May 18, 2005 12:46 PM
24. I am a soldier and know quite a few soldiers who where at GITMO and I can tell you that they never saw any of these alleged abuses occur. WHat they did tell me about is the detainees urinating and deficating into cups and bowls and throwing it on the guards on a daily basis. So where is the "MSM" story about the detainees' abusing my fellow soldiers?

Posted by: TrueSoldier on May 18, 2005 12:52 PM
25. What I find curious is this sudden wave of concern among Muslims over non-Muslims handling copies of the Q'uran. I have spent over three years in the Middle East (1 in Kuwait, 2 in Saudi Arabia), and have several copies of the Q'uran in my home. I purchased them in retail bookstores in both countries, where anyone who wished could have their pick of literally dozens of different editions and translations of the book.

If there was a legitimate Islamic issue with "infidels" touching the Q'uran, I would think the Saudis (arguably the most extreme of today's Muslim societies) would restrict non-Muslims' access to it, rather than allowing it to be bought openly in a retail establishment.

While I do not regard the Q'uran as sacred in the way a Muslim does, I do make it a point to treat my copies of it with respect and care. I felt it was important to read it in order to better understand the beliefs of my Muslim friends and associates.

Bottom line, it seems this is really a "tempest in a teapot" that has been exploited by extremist elements. Newsweek simply played into their hands by handling them an issue on a platter that they could blow out of proportion.

Posted by: Patrick on May 18, 2005 12:58 PM
26. First we cannot change the culture of the middle-east. But we can change our culture (western culture). We can change it back to when the Western culture was great.

I have to say it... As a whole we (modern western culture) are a weak-minded people. We don't digest information critically. We swallow information that tastes good (politically, socially, morally, etc.)and we don't question the source nor the flavors (Bias) that it comes with. We accept it without question and persecute those who don't.

Hitler was right:

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it"

In that quote, nowhere did Hitler reference giving sources, verifying sources or diversity of sources (multiple eyewitness accounts).

These were some of the priciples that made Western Culture great.

Posted by: MCL on May 18, 2005 01:08 PM
27. Fred (regarding MSM) - " ... their complete distain for religion and zero concept of what it means to people it is possible."

Couldn't agree more. MSM is simply selling their product and it doesn't matter if it is right, wrong or biased. MSM delivers a negative, sensationilized, liberal product and much of it should be recalled. Where's Ralph Nader?

Posted by: Mike J on May 18, 2005 01:13 PM
28. Bush's total control of the media is an embarassment to the world.

He pays off people who represent themselves as independent experts.

Be wary of everything anyone in the Bush administration has ever said -- or that the media writes. It's likely to be bought and paid for by Bush and Delay and Cheney and their right-wing, we're right;you're wrong cronies.

Posted by: Jim Rogers on May 18, 2005 01:14 PM
29. Jim R,

You left out Halliburton, Karl Rove and Darth Vader.

Posted by: jimg on May 18, 2005 01:22 PM
30. jimg...good point. The fundamentalists are everywhere....rove, halliburton, vader....

Posted by: Jim Rogers on May 18, 2005 01:24 PM
31. Jim Rogers said, "Bush's total control of the media is an embarassment to the world.

"He pays off people who represent themselves as independent experts.

"Be wary of everything anyone in the Bush administration has ever said -- or that the media writes. It's likely to be bought and paid for by Bush and Delay and Cheney and their right-wing, we're right;you're wrong cronies."

Scurrilous allegations. Let's see your evidence!

Posted by: KB on May 18, 2005 01:36 PM
32. Newseak is not responsible for the deaths of innocent people in Afghanistan, only for poor and biased reporting. Muslim fanatics are responsible for the deaths of innocent people in Afghanistan. The religion of peace rears its ugly head once again.

Posted by: Bill on May 18, 2005 01:42 PM
33. pb&j wrote, " Don't shoot the messenger."

But what about the lying reporter?

Lying reporter? Newsweek showed the story to Pentagon officials before printing it, asking if it was accurate. The Pentagon raised one objection, which Newsweek corrected, but said nothing about the central point of the piece.

So was the Pentagon's plan then to allow the story to be released so that they could condemn it after the fact? Certainly seems that way.

Posted by: Daniel K on May 18, 2005 02:36 PM
34. Daniel K.,

The way the game is played in Washington D.C. is to "assume" the story is true if it is not explicitly denied. Elsewhere in the U.S.A. reporters confirm their sources before publishing stories.

However, D.C. news is driven more by rumors, innuendo's, and unconfirmed leaks, largely because no federal employee would publicly leak information and risk losing their job. Newsweek's got burned for these reporting practices because in this particular instance the unsubstantiated story resulted in killing people and making national news.

But if your point is that a non-denial is adequate confirmation, then you are ethically challenged. And if you think the Bush administration planned this in hopes that people would die so that it could blame Newsweek, then you are a kook.

Posted by: Tim Ford on May 18, 2005 02:51 PM
35. Tim Ford - Go ahead and dismiss the fact the Pentagon was given the story for comment and did not refute it. That's par for the course here.

Posted by: Daniel K on May 18, 2005 02:58 PM
36. So you believe that the Pentagon is responsible for the content of Newsweek magazine? When is the reporter ever held responsible for publishing an unconfirmed story?

Posted by: Tim Ford on May 18, 2005 03:05 PM
37. Both parties have responsibilities.

Newsweek can be fairly taken to task regarding the credibility of their source, and they have since revisited the veracity of the information (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/7857154/site/newsweek/).
However, the Pentagon was given the opportunity to refute the report, and while they pointed out problems with one part of the report, they did not refute the Koran down the toilet allegation part of the report. So someone there screwed up too, or didn't believe the report was in fact erroneous at that time.

Meanwhile, similar accusations have been made (see here for a list: http://blackandblueheart.blogspot.com/2005/05/freedom-of-press.html) by other newspapers dating back to March. This is not a story that only one shady source has produced, and one MSM publication has written about. This is a story that anyone paying any attention has been reading about for months.

Posted by: Daniel K on May 18, 2005 03:20 PM
38. You got to love how the media continues to claim this is a true story even after Newsweak (the ne true spelling) retracted the story. To be honest I do not see why the media is even making a big deal out of this. I mean they did not seem to mind when the so called "art" world placed the crucifix into a jar of urin or when they smeared elephant dung on a statue of Mary.

Posted by: TrueSoldier on May 18, 2005 03:25 PM
39. This is a media story, not a Bush administration story. It was the media that attributed the deaths in Afghanistan to the Newsweek story. Most Bush people either ignored or brushed off the story. They are used to this and realize that most of us out here in the sticks recognize the MSM for what it is, nowadays.

Those who want this to be a Bush Admin. story will make up reasons why the Newsweek story was really accurate, even though no one at Newsweek has argued that. This makes even more clear than ever that agendas are in play, not facts, not news, not reality.

Posted by: mac on May 18, 2005 03:48 PM
40. Daniel,

I read the links and sources you provided and am not convinced that the Newsweek story is real. The difference is that Newsweek states a government report exists which accounts for this type of abuse, while the 2003 article cited on the link you provide quotes a handful of released prisoners. Some of these prisoners also claim they were innocent while admitting they were "forced" to fight in the Taliban.

Ultimately Newsweek did not stand by their story, which should be enough for the unbiased reader. I know there are brainwashed readers who want to believe anybody but Bush, but if the story was true, would Newsweek really retract the story at Bush's request? Newsweek is not owned by Rupert Murdoch and would never willingly do a favor for Bush.

Guess we will just have to disagree on this one.

Tim

Posted by: Tim Ford on May 18, 2005 04:06 PM
41. mac - It is both a media story and a Bush administration story. We've covered the media part. The administration part has to do with the inconsistencies between what General Myers has been saying and what the White House has been saying.

Last week Thursday, the 12th, General Myers said, "It's a judgment of our commander in Afghanistan, General Eichenberry, that in fact the violence that we saw in Jalalabad was not necessarily the result of the allegations about disrespect for the Koran." He said it was "more tied up in the political process and reconciliation that President Karzai and his cabinet were conducting." And he said that that was from an after-action report he got that day.

The White House yesterday said, through spokesperson Scott McClellan said: "Well, clearly, the report was used to incite violence by people who oppose the United States and want to mischaracterize the values and the views of the United States of America."

So who is right? The generals on the ground or the politicians in D.C.?


Posted by: Daniel K on May 18, 2005 04:07 PM
42. Daniel - you said, "It is both a media story and a Bush administration story. We've covered the media part. The administration part has to do with the inconsistencies between what General Myers has been saying and what the White House has been saying." - then you quoted Gen Meyers.

I don't believe that what the general said and what Scott McClellan said are all that inconsistent. If you read the following article, it seems to me that maybe they're saying the same thing in different ways...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20050517-1512-afghan-newsweek-quran.html

Posted by: KB on May 18, 2005 05:05 PM
43. KB - I think that General Myers, the military man, was actually being more diplomatic in his comments than the politician, McClellan was. McClellan painted a picture of a direct line between the article and the cause for the violence. Myers suggested the article was not the cause of the violence. Certainly those Afghanis made aware of the article would not have been pleased by the information in it. Then again they would have already had their minds made up about how they felt about the U.S. for any number of other reasons, not the least of which would have been the Abu Ghraib prison scandal.

Posted by: Daniel K on May 18, 2005 05:42 PM
44. Thanks, MSM. Fanning the fires. Aiding the enemy. Pulled another Jayson Blair and it's always o.k.

If I incited a riot in my neighborhood, arrest would follow. I'd be sued by hundreds.

MSM gets a break. "Check my work?" Heck, we learned that in 2nd grade. Trouble is, the price is higher now for a FUBAR.

Newsweek overheard in the missle silo: "Ooops, hit the wrong button...Sorry..." (insert "foom" and mushroom cloud clip art here)

Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on May 18, 2005 06:47 PM
45. Wow Daniel K, this is series!

Do you suppose that you'll be able to get any sleep tonight? I mean, holy crunkas!

I feel so used! Like, such a sense of betrayal from people that I once trusted!

Oh, the outrage! Oh, the horror!

(Whatta pantload ;'}

Posted by: alphabet soup on May 18, 2005 07:35 PM
46. Newsweek on Gitmo, Dan Rather on Bush, John Kerry on phony war record....the pattern of the left is all to familar. As Danny Rather said, It's not important if it's actually true, it's the accusation that's important...Let's just throw crap at the wall and see if it sticks!

Posted by: Route101 on May 19, 2005 03:52 AM
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