Dino Rossi has just announced that he will not appeal to the state Supreme Court.
Congratulations to Mr. Rossi for a fight well fought. Among the two gubernatorial candidates between whom the margin of separation was 1/13 the number of illegal votes, he would have been the better governor. May he stand to fight another day.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at June 06, 2005 05:04 PM | Email ThisRossi in 2006 OR 2008.
Otherwise, the GOP should hang this one up. There are just some battles that you need to hold off on.
Posted by: Sailor Republica on June 6, 2005 05:07 PMHasn't got a prayer. He already has stated time and time and time and time again that he isn't running for Senate. If he tries to back into that race now he will be a joke.
Fraudoire will have four years to patch things up and buy off enough sheeple to win by five or six points in '08. A rematch seldom lives up to its hype. History shows that rematches usually end up being more lopsided losses when the same contestants run. The memory of this robbery will have long faded from the vacuous minds of the sheeple by the time '08 rolls around.
Like I said, think outside the box on this one. And in the meantime see what kind of candidates pop up from the second and third stringers.
Posted by: Interested Observer on June 6, 2005 05:13 PMWe need a citizen initiative for a new election challenge statute. When the illegal votes exceed the margin of victory, the election is voided!!
Rossi for King County Executive!!!!!
Posted by: Don in Yakima on June 6, 2005 05:13 PMSo the facts are now clear, no fraud, no cheating, not a single grain of evidence that there was an illegal vote for Govenor Gregoire, and all of this time and millions of dollars were wasted just for PR.
Has the GOP no shame?
Posted by: JDB on June 6, 2005 05:14 PMA true class act would have eliminated the woe-is-me B.S. and simply conceeded, thanked his supporters, maybe made a remark as to the election challenge, and because he was dropping the case, urged unity.
Regardless whether he was truly cheated or not. Al Gore got it right in 2000, Dino could have taken a page or two from him.
Posted by: Dustin on June 6, 2005 05:15 PMNo, but to liberals that doesn't matter. What does matter to lefties is that they win, no matter what it takes (as proven by this last election). For a liberal, being a "gentleman" is synonymous with being a loser. Based on their recent record in WA state, I'd have to say they are right. They're scum, but they get their candidates in office, by hook or by crook.
You're a sorry SOB
"Quite possibly"? Thats our standard for elections now, is it?
Well, she just might have won a clean election, so sit down and stop criticizing government officials!
Jeez. I honestly think I'm going to puke.
Posted by: ScottM on June 6, 2005 05:19 PMYou'll have your opinions, I'll have mine. I think the hand recount was innumerably more accurate. Now, if Pierce (and the other counties that found ballots after the third count) only would have been able to find and count all their ballots, we might be in a completely different place. But, again, blame it all on King...
If Rossi wants to run again in 2008, let him.
Posted by: Dustin on June 6, 2005 05:25 PMI am hoping that other people will have a bit better of behavior than these two. Of course, how can someone have good behavior when they work for King County?
Posted by: Sailor Republica on June 6, 2005 05:25 PMSince I doubt that you have tape recordings of conversations to establish your wild claims of a criminal conspiracy between Gregoire and Sims, let's apply your apparent reasoning to the other counties. Time to indict the election officials in the Republican-leaning counties where the hand recount "found" votes and benefitted Rossi! Doubtless the product of a criminal conspiracy to benefit Dino, right Shannon?
Posted by: Bluebeard on June 6, 2005 05:30 PMQuite the opposite, I'm a very markedly socially liberal, fiscally conservative (I)ndependant.
Posted by: Dustin on June 6, 2005 05:32 PMI'm disappointed by the ruling, but not at all surprised.
Posted by: Emily on June 6, 2005 05:33 PMGOP has NFI how to conduct political fights. We need to learn that anything is OK as long as there is plausible deniability.
Posted by: Mark on June 6, 2005 05:34 PMI suspect you don't think she should have conceded after the recount.
Posted by: Eirik on June 6, 2005 05:36 PMBut, I don't think the state should have had to flipped the bill. The Democratic Party should have paid for it.
Posted by: Dustin on June 6, 2005 05:38 PMYou might want to be reconsider your sanctimonious bull about the lefties not having any "class" here. In the few posts on this page so far, you righties call Democrats/liberals, "scum," "SOB" and "DemocRAT bastards."
Yeah, real enlightenment and class from the right, as usual.
Posted by: Bluebeard on June 6, 2005 05:39 PMPlease, look at the minnow's thread right below this one saying that the judge sided with Stalin. I'm just playing by the rules of this board, except that I have facts (and, now, a judicial decision) supporting me.
If Rossi really thought he had a case, he would take it up. However, Rossi knew he had no chance because his case was just so many lies and propaganda.
You have any proof of this, lets see it. I'm still waiting for one shred of evidence that supports Rossi, but as the Judge made clear, there is none.
I am a proud democrate (little d), which is why I support the Judges decision. I have no sympathy for a person (Rossi) or a party (the GOP) which put pushed this farce forward for nothing but personal and propagandistic gains.
Posted by: JDB on June 6, 2005 05:40 PMAn enlightened Dino supporter just posted the following on HA: "Congratulations Nazis, you won."
Yep, you guys really have the corner on class, dontcha?
And you call losing an election trial "sickening."
Posted by: Bluebeard on June 6, 2005 05:42 PMQuite simply, you do not have any idea what Rossi is thinking. Why? Because you are not Dino Rossi. Hell, I have no idea what he's thinking.
As for your claim about personal and propagandistic gains, you are quite wrong. Someone felt cheated, someone was cheated, and he went to court. He lost, now he's done with the fight and moving on. He did things the way they were supposed to be done.
Here's your sign.
Posted by: Sailor Republica on June 6, 2005 05:46 PMDino is an acquaintance/friend ever since he became my state senator back in '96. His was the first campaign I ever helped on. I'm disappointed, yes, but even more so very sad because as the judge read the decision I began to realize the complete unjustness of our current system. When Bridges essentially told us that KC could stuff the ballot box and throw away votes (at any level of the process) and falsify reports and get away with it, I lost it. Dino had this thing ripped away because of weak election contest law and people willing to cheat (come on, trolls, WHERE did those 785 voterless ballots come from and how did they NOT affect the election in some way???? when you can tell me, then come talk to me. Otherwise don't bother).
Dino, you're a great person and we're so proud of you. I know that great things lie in your future.
Posted by: Michele on June 6, 2005 05:47 PMI know who lost: the voters.
Posted by: Bostonian on June 6, 2005 05:48 PMKen
Posted by: Ken Hupp on June 6, 2005 05:49 PMLet the ballot stuffing and lies in King County continue!
I wondered if we will see backlash as in '94. Someone brought it up on Carlson's show. I have to hope that the political landscape has been significantly altered. It's just possible that in the future we will have Governor Rossi AND a Republican legislature, because of this. We'll see, but I have a feeling....
Posted by: Michele on June 6, 2005 05:57 PMIsnt it disheartening for you dems to com to the realization that the only way for you to win is to cheat?
Those sexual predators, murderers and dead people put you over the top...
Election of the corrupt by the corrupt, for the corrupt
Posted by: hookr23 on June 6, 2005 06:00 PMWe must look forward and keep politically active.
Dino said he's not going anywhere. I will keep my Rossi bumper sticker on, to help those who have short term memory when it comes to the type of shenanigans that happened in King County.
Hey, on the upside, I-912 petitions are going in tonights mail. Let's get some signatures.
Posted by: Robyn on June 6, 2005 06:01 PMJudge upholds Gregoire's election; Rossi won't appeal
By GREGORY ROBERTS
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER
WENATCHEE -- Reeling from a courtroom rout, Republican Dino Rossi decided today not to press ahead to the state Supreme Court with his legal challenge to the 2004 election of Democratic Gov. Christine Gregoire.
I'm sorry. Did Roberts say "Reeling from a courtroom rout?"
First of all, Judge Bridges ruled that 1600 votes were cast illegally.
Second, Bridges said that his hands were tied in this matter. Of course I disagree.
At any rate perhaps a more professional and unbiased headline would read…
WENATCHEE-- Following Judge Bridges decision to updhold the election of Christine Gregoire, Republican Dino Rossi decided today not to to press ahead to the state Supreme Court with his legal challenge to the 2004 election.
Posted by: Ryan from Vancouver on June 6, 2005 06:05 PMThe libertarian candidate? ;~)
Posted by: starboardhelm on June 6, 2005 06:08 PMWARNING---PREVIOUS ATTEMPTED POST AMENDED DUE TO OBJECTIONABLE CONTENT, SPECIFICALLY THE WORD "F**K"
Oh, for f*** sake! Were you upset by the fraud, deceit and cheating in the last 2 presidential elections? No, of course not -- Fox News told you it didn't happen. Only those batshit insane liberals would believe that the Diebold contracts weren't on the up and up. And besides, your boy won, anyway.
What do you want, anyway? Rossi's attorneys specifically sought out this judge, as he nullified a previous election. Guess their strategy backfired.
Posted by: Ren on June 6, 2005 06:11 PMHey, I was just thinking. I'm raising two children whom will both be 18 come 2008 and have both assured me that should Rossi run, he can count on their votes.
Did anyone else pick up on a few things he said.
1) he's not going anywhere
2) best of luck to C.G. for the next 31/2 years.
hmmm!
Posted by: Robyn on June 6, 2005 06:15 PMVOTE EARLY, VOTE OFTEN!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: hookr23 on June 6, 2005 06:17 PMThe tears of Angels will bring the rain.
Posted by: Ken Muller on June 6, 2005 06:17 PM
They are in charge and it is up to them to propose and pass MEANINGFUL reforms...not just window dressing. Time will tell if they take this problem seriously or they will pull an OJ on us where 10 years from now they are still looking for Nicole's killer!!
Posted by: Mr. Cynical on June 6, 2005 06:37 PMActually, ironically, the judge used the Republican's proportional reduction by default, though in the least statistically valid way. By saying they did not change the results of the election, he allocated them based on the entire state, rather than the statistically more valid precinct level allocation.
Bill H
Posted by: Bill H on June 6, 2005 06:37 PMI will now vote only Republican. I can't for certain speak for my wife, but if she passes away before I do, she'll vote Republican, too. (Only kidding, I would never do that!)
Speaking of Ron Sims, does anyone really believe that he's going to do anything constructive regarding the election process in King County?
Best wishes to Dino. He's a class act.
Posted by: Larry in Renton on June 6, 2005 06:41 PMHmmmmmm..................
Now this sounds interesting.....
Can you imagine Ron Sims attempting another fraudulent election running against Dino himself?
If Dino ran for KC Exec...would his term overlap the next Governors race? He DID say - he wants to stay here in the state and raise his family.....
Hmmmm.......(no offense to David Irons here....but..)
Posted by: Deborah on June 6, 2005 06:44 PMThen he should have taken the entire KC vote pool and used the same calculation (state-wide proportion) because KC screwed every voter in all the other counties with their lies, screwups, and deciet.
(1) Elections can be had
(2) Certain counties need to buck up their respective processes (is that a word?)
(3) Gov. Gregorie will have a questionable term and must win huge (ie govern well and win a landslide) or will be sent packing.
Again, I am not a resident of Washington State. That said, Washington State republicans do not despair. In a short time another change will arrive. Blogs such as Soundpolitics will be there. The Nation reads, the eyes are on. The party and the values underlying the party are on the march.
Washington will go "R" next time.
I dont even know if Gregoire will run again in 2008.
Posted by: Kyle on June 6, 2005 06:58 PM1) In addition the 1,600+ illegal votes Bridges acknowledged, the press/blogosphere coverage also indicated he accepted that there were 1,400+ more ballots counted than voters credited. 3,000+ illegal/improper votes is quite an admission from a judge who was unwilling to interprest existing election contest statutes more generously. Moreover, such an admission in the findings of fact, regardless of the Judge's final decision, leave Gregoire with the unresolved tainted of an illegitimate governorship. I suspect public opinion polls in the coming days will support this (ie the majority of the public will believe Dino got more votes, regardless of the court outcome). As Bridges noted, he didn't have a "spoonfull of sugar" for either side. If Gregoire is not popular/successful by early 2008 she will face serious, serious trouble at the ballot box.
2) Those of you who have the temerity to question the Republican case and Rossi's magnanimous conclusion of the contest are politely put, ignorant. The aforementioned 3,000+ vote issue, and public polling, is evidence enough of the prudence of bringing the contest. And those that would question now Rossi's class and graciousness in bowing out are exposing their lack of political sense and lack of experience dealing with an emotional, close election. That or their name might be Paul Berendt.
Dino Rossi is a rare breed among those willing to run for such significant office in the modern era: policy brains, political skill, and true character. Republican, Democrat, or Independent, we are better off for him having run...and let us hope he does again.
Posted by: Eric Earling on June 6, 2005 06:59 PMAs I said on a post earlier, regardless of the ruling, this bastardization of the law will be undone. I'm willing to stick around and see it. I doubt that the trolls will still be kicking in 06, much less 08.
God Bless the Great State of Washington.
Posted by: Danny on June 6, 2005 07:08 PM"Corrupt the young, get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial, destroy their ruggedness. Get control of all means of publicity and thereby: Get the peoples' mind off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books and plays, and other trivialities. Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance. Destroy the people's faith in their natural leaders by holding up the latter to ridicule, contempt and obloquy. Always preach true democracy, but seize power as fast and as ruthlessly as possible. Encourage government extravagance, destroy its credit, produce fear with rising prices, inflation and general discontent. Foment unnecessary strikes in vital industries, encourage civil disorders and foster a soft and lenient attitude on the part of government towards such disorders. By specious argument cause the breakdown of the old moral virtues: honesty, sobriety, continence, faith in the pledged word, ruggedness. Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext, with the view of confiscating them and leaving the population defenseless."
Vladimir Ilich Lenin
(I'd suggest this argument: "You asked us for a lot of extra money to finance an election challenge a lot of us figured you'd lose. And we obliged. Now you owe us. Dino for Senate!")
Posted by: ScottM on June 6, 2005 07:16 PMNorman Thomas, former U.S. Socialist
Presidential Candidate
Hoorah for Washington!
Posted by: Donnageddon on June 6, 2005 07:23 PMJeez, there's just so many that fit . . .
/* end sarcasm */
I should not need to remind the trolls here of how many mainstreamers are coming off the sidelines as a result of this election. The incumbents have made a point of thumbing their nose at voters in Washington this year in too many ways to count.
A good winner doesn't clear the bleachers for an infield brawl. I'd be very concerned of my political future if I were a democrat sitting in office right now.
Posted by: Andy on June 6, 2005 07:25 PMVoters--(I hope) we will now be all over our legislators "like a bum on a bologna sandwich." (excuse my Home Training--I did not mean to disenfranchise all the Tent City Condo Owners)
True, fraud is a high standard. However, one does not have to observe a baby excrete to prove the diaper smells & contains King County (certified) votes. Hang on to your wallets, folks--the new-tax train will now be in full throttle.
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on June 6, 2005 07:25 PM
Here is what Judge Bridges should have said about proportional deduction:
"A child of five could understand this. Fetch me a child of five." (Groucho Marx)
Posted by: starboardhelm on June 6, 2005 07:32 PMDino is a class act. His decision not to appeal was a great move. Not only will I vote for him next time he runs for...any office...I will donate to the campaign and volunteer!!!
Posted by: Mark D on June 6, 2005 07:33 PMHa! Even Judge Bridges voted in the governor's race.......TWICE. Once at the polls and once at the bench. If he voted for Gregoire twice, then isn't the latter vote called election fraud? But if he voted for Rossi first, and then Gregoire second............. just as we figured, ONLY THE LAST TALLY COUNTS!!!!!!!
GREGOIRE owns Judge Bridges too.
As a result of these illegal votes, nearly 3 million Washington voters were denied their right to a fair and decisive election outcome. I can think of no better reason now for a federal investigation of the facts surrounding the corruption of this election by 3,000 illegal votes (including ballots without voters).
People should lose their jobs and an independent investigation must be carried out to correct the mess we're in, or we'll never have another uncorrupted election again.
I believe that Republicans, while accepting the futility in further challenge of this election, should resurrect their calls for a federal US Attorney investigation into the circumstances surrounding the denial of every voter's right to have their votes counted, illegal votes discounted, and a letigimate election conducted to elect a legitimate governor. With the finding of facts by Bridges, the question of thousands of illegal and invalid votes is no longer in question, and the consequences of this distributed fraud has denied the citizens of Washington a clear winner in this election.
Even in power now for 3 more years, every act by Christine Greqoire will be made in the shadow of clear corruption of the election in which she ended on top by a margin only a fraction of the illegal and invalid votes that were counted. The illegal and invalid votes, perhaps resulting in the legitimate election of Gregoire if they could have been removed, has potentially denied her her right to govern in legitimacy as Republicans believe Rossi was denied. The illegal and invalid votes of roughly 3,000 voters, and the posssible collusion of election officials to allow them to be counted, is far more serious a situation that a failed election contest would leave it.
Republicans and Democrats should demand an investigation based on the finding of facts, and all voters deserve to know what happened and those responsible held accountable. Should Democrats refuse to join Republicans in such a call, it shall only make their real involvement in this fiasco more evident.
Posted by: Mike on June 6, 2005 07:35 PMDino did what needed to be done for the citizens of our state regardless of the outcome. He realistically recognizes he has done all he can for the citizens on this stage. Dino and CG both know it's impossible to know who won. Dino's response to the ruling appears more outward as serving the best interest of the citizens, while CG's appears more inwardly focused.
Bridges chastened the voters to be more active in ensuring shoddy work ethics aren't status quo when it comes to elections. He decided it wasn't his venue to call for election reforms because it is impossible to prove based on deficient elections procedures. He left that to the voters. Are we up to his call? are we content to turn a blind eye?
As much as I feel shanghaied regarding this result, it suspect it's time for renewed energies elsewhere to keep government in check.
Let them eat cake.
Posted by: Mike J on June 6, 2005 07:39 PMDo you think Bank of America has people sitting at tables with stacks of checks each night..adding up totals and writing them in a ledger??? You have to be kidding. And according to their ad, 1 mistake in a million is unacceptable. Definately not where Ron Simms banks.
Posted by: Mark D on June 6, 2005 07:40 PMAnd how do you answer this argument: I have children in school and want to raise them in our home state and be a real presence in their lives as they grow up. Being 3000 miles away much of the time will mean I cannot do that. I do not want to disrupt my family life in such a way. I want to help my home state, and being Governor will allow me to do that better than being a junior Senator. I have stated my reasons for not wanting to run for Senate. Please respect them and stop this useless speculation.
Hard to argue with those reasons. Rossi has stated he will not run for Senate and I think it's time to stop beating that dead horse. To be honest, I suspect that in his mind he feels being asked to settle for a second-rate consolation prize is insulting. Consolation prizes are for losers, and Rossi is not a loser. He won the Governship legitimately and had it stolen by blanet, in-your-face fraud. Forget about this Rossi For Senate pipedream.
Posted by: Interested Observer on June 6, 2005 07:41 PMDo be sad, its clear with this mornings ruling we that we can all vote as may times as we like without consequences. I have a few dead relitives and some felon freinds that I am sure I can convice should vote republican. And I am sure if you think hard you do to.
After all, with no consequences for doing so, whats to stop us. This November, just plan to make the rounds of all polling places and cast your provisionals, Its up to the brain dead election officals to determine if thy are proper, and as we now know, their not likely to figure out you cast to many ballots.
So lets go for it, Washington does not have a meaningful election system so who cares. Certaily not the SOS.
Posted by: RDM on June 6, 2005 07:47 PMWho then, has the 1600+ illegal votes subtracted from their total? I've got bad news for the Gregiore apologists and groupies: When even non- partisan Joe Sixpacks do the election math, there is a glowing realization that although the decision was cloked in law, it does not pass the smell test.
So where does it leave us?
1) Rossi hold his chin high, bows out with grace and survives politically to fight another day.
2) The Liberal Machine is left to defend their governor and her "stunning legal victory" with the 'ol PR dodge and weave: Smarmy barbs, sophistry and legal hair splitting.
(The reality is, though, that just as Baltimore delivered for Governor Paris Glendening in 1994, King county served up the good for Gregiore. Then, the Maryland Supreme Court ruled that it was statistically possible that Paris didn't win. But the Baltimore voting machines that put Paris over the top "could not be located" for inspection, so the election stood, as there was no "evidence" to overturn the outcome. Sound familiar?
3)Gregiore's win is even more illegitimate. Except for the most die-hard supporters and rabid liberal partisans, her credibility is even shakier.
So she is left with a phyrric victory. As King Pyrrhus of Epirus said, "One more such victory and I am lost," so shall Gregiore find that her new "victory" at the hands of Bridges leaves her with precious political capital and a rising cacaphony of legally betrayed commoners ready sack her political Bastille.
Time will show that Wenatchee is the highwater mark of the liberal establishment and social elite in Washington.
SH
Scotland, Connecticut
2: A lot of you here, while I know you are hurt and angry, are demonstrating why people like myself stop short of actually "being" a Republican. Disagree with the judge's decision, fine. But stop demonizing him and spouting about how you knew it was all over when you saw his commie pinko flamer earring. Seriously. Grow up, and welcome to the 21st century, where some of us that are male, hetero, and conservative do have a piercing or two.
3: I think the key miscalculation in all of this was by Bridges. He made it crystal clear throughout that he was doing everything he did with an eye toward a Supreme Court appeal. He was so bold in his assumption of that, that he thought he could get away with punting it, by looking only at the trees and not the forest, and still feel that he "did the right thing." I honestly wonder if he now regrets NOT standing as the voice of common sense and reason, and saying "if an election can't tell you who won, it wasn't a valid election." I certainly hope so.
4: Given Bridges' obvious plans for an appeal in crafting his ruling, I am really surprised and dissapointed that Rossi isn't going to appeal. Unlike JDB, I don't think this is an admission of a "sham" or a "PR stunt." I do think it is a mistake, but it was not mine to make and I can't fault him too much for it, imagining what it has been like to watch your political future dancing before your eyes with the kind of twisted garbage that passed for an election, and faced with a decision that you must prove the unprovable to contest it.
5: The absolute best argument I have seen in favor of common sense today is a standard - see if an argument stands up when taken to the extreme. By the ruling today, there could have been 100,000 "errors" in King County (or better yet, Benton County) and the "result" would still stand. That is the ultimate indictment of our election system. It is fundamentally broken in its inability to recognize that a margin of error greater than the margin separating the candidates cannot be used as the basis for claiming that one candidate was duly elected, and has any kind of mandate. I really would have loved to see if the Supreme Court would be willing to side with common sense, or if they would uphold the "prove the unprovable or go home" ruling.
RR
Posted by: RookieRick on June 6, 2005 07:47 PMAnd what's christmasghost's response to me pointing that out? He notes that I haven't included a real email address!
Nice job christmasghost -- very persuasive. Hey, I think that the Republican lawyers have a job opening for someone w/ your rhetorical skills. If you sign up w/ them, they'll surely do better in their next lawsuit than this one (hey, how could they do worse?).
Posted by: Bluebeard on June 6, 2005 07:49 PMLook, all I'm saying is that Rossi himself has said he isn't interested in running for the Senate. He has very good reasons, IMO, for that decision. Besides, if the guy's heart really isn't in wanting the job, how good of a candidate do you think he would be?
Posted by: Interested Observer on June 6, 2005 07:51 PMSH
Posted by: Samuel Huntington on June 6, 2005 07:54 PMSo come aboard! You can disagree with some Republicans while still being a Republican.
Posted by: ScottM on June 6, 2005 07:55 PMOf course, I do not expect an answer from you. But it could prove interesting to see if you want to try.
Posted by: Mike P on June 6, 2005 08:02 PMI volunteered for 13 hours on election day, and none of it mattered. Even if I saw someone voting illegally, I can't stop them. And once the ballots are in, they count.
This year I'll spend 13 hours hitting every polling place between Safeco Field and Northgate. I'll wear a 'Re-elect Ron Sims' button so everyone thinks I'm a moonbat. I'll cast my ballot, and then stuff as many votes for David Irons into the Accuvote as time allows. Even if someone catches me, what'll they do? Call the cops? Call the county prosecutor? Hah.
We're stupid to play the game right and honestly, then wonder why they keep winning.
If illegal ballots aren't illegal, then neither is voting multiple times. We have only Judge Bridges and the Democrats to thank.
Posted by: Larry on June 6, 2005 08:03 PMI work right across the street from the Federal Building in downtown Seattle. I see every flippin' protest special interest groups hold. If this is what they understand....what the heck!
Posted by: Digusted with Washington Legal System on June 6, 2005 08:05 PMToday the judge gave me (ave joe voter) a slap in the face. I understand his ruling (with the laws), but as a non-KC resident, my vote was stolen by an illegal vote. There resides no trust in my soul for Politicians. There resides no Faith in our so called "democracy".
I pity the residents of King County. You now will pay for "NEW ELECTIONS" in the form of Buildings, personell, ect. That is the price you pay for "ALLOWING" this "any bank would be proud" election to unfold and be certified. It is the price you pay for living in the County that can't count. King County should be Black Balled from this State.
My personal crusade is to notify each and every elected offical in Olympia, and let them know they are being held accountable for their decisions on behalf of their constituents.
Too bad KC doesn't elect their own auditor, at least you could Un-elect them!!!
Posted by: Chris on June 6, 2005 08:09 PMI cannot believe that we have now validated the practices of the donkey party. Now, codified, and 'controlling legal authority' has dictated that illegal votes, felons, double voters, and stuffing boxes are now LEGAL!
Our response? A tip of the hat, and we just give in.
Great.
Hey, now this all goes away. No reforms, no improvements, no urgency to actually do anything to make things better. CG is now the undisputed winner in all this.
I can remember a time when it was a contest to see how many votes, legally cast, each side got, the winner being the one with the most. Now, the ONLY way to actually win is to see how many votes each side can illegally stuff into the process. Oh, I am sorry, it's now LEGAL to do it. My bad.
Sorry. I find myself disgusted. This is so wrong. Others may talk about the high road and how Rossi is a class act, but I won't. We had one damned chance to make a difference and correct the situation, and Rossi punted. A pox on Vance, Foreman, Rossi, and everyone else who has now created the conditions that will have this swept under the rug, and who now have emboldened the partisan guerillas into doing more of the same.
Sorry, not buying the happy 'good fight' stuff as a result of this one.
Posted by: Patches Pal on June 6, 2005 08:16 PMI've come to the conclusion that there is no 'good fight' in King County. The gloves are off.
I'm voting a dozen times for David Irons in November. But I won't cast a single ballot for Sam Reed. I won't vote for his opponent - but he definitely does not deserve my vote - let alone a dozen of my votes.
We can play by their rules, or we can whine and complain. There's no middle road with Ron Sims, Dean Logan, and Christine Gregoire in charge. Do we want six more years of Cantwell, or do we want to win?
Posted by: Larry on June 6, 2005 08:23 PM(Pardon the informality.) What you suggest is wrong:
"Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext, with the view of confiscating them and leaving the population defenseless."
The population must be rendered defenseless, so my NKVD (what the Amerikanskie call "Department of Homeland Security") can imprison them at will.
Shto d'elat'?
Lavrentii
I hope he never gets into any position of power in Washington State.
Posted by: Will on June 6, 2005 08:29 PMI hope YOU never get into any position of power in Washington State, as you obviously don't give two sh*ts whether the election was fair and correct, only that your favorite "won."
Posted by: RookieRick on June 6, 2005 08:36 PM2005--David Irons elected King County Executive.
2006--Dino Rossi elected to the U.S. Senate (I've changed my mind about this if Irons is elected).
2008--David Irons elected Governor after a successful three years as County Executive--remember Locke was elected Governor after only three years. He is replaced by Council President Reagan Dunn.
2010--Rob McKenna elected to the U.S. Senate, ending Patty Murray's career. Governor Irons appoints Dale Foreman as Attorney General.
This, of course, is pie-in-the-sky but maybe not as unrealistic as it seems at first blush. I think the votes of this state have become particularly disgusted with the Democrats. Maybe their doubts about Republicans can be overcome if the national party leadership becomes less southern and the war disappears as an issue. Realignment may be just around the corner. Remember, Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan carried this state (even King County). A little shift in the urban areas combined with the wipe out of the D's in eastern Washington and consistent decline in rural western Washington could spell realignment.
Posted by: Jack on June 6, 2005 08:37 PM
To elected officials: (Voltaire) "Laugh while you can...everything has its time..."
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on June 6, 2005 08:39 PMBut everyone now knows that King County officials deliberately and repeatedly broke the law regarding reconciliation and certification, and that this lawlessness very probably gave Gregoire her "victory."
If we can't use those facts to win overwhelming victories in 2006 and 2008, then it hardly matters. The Republic is doomed.
Posted by: ScottM on June 6, 2005 08:39 PMAdd me to the list of people who believe Dino did the right thing today; he couldn't have won in the WSSC the way it's stacked...better to kick her "Democrat" in the re-match.
Personally, I can hardly wait. (If we still have the right to vote in 2008, I should say.)
Posted by: DisenfranchisedInKingCounty on June 6, 2005 08:45 PMI was a bit confused by that one. It added to 137.1%. I thought maybe KCE was running the poll!!! LOL!!
Posted by: Mark D on June 6, 2005 08:48 PMFOR THE LOVE OF GOD, quit doubting the election now. The Judge dismissed each Repug assertion one by one, even, at one point, claiming that if he allowed the Repugs argument it would have increased the total victory for Gregiore!
So much so, it my even be the case that the Repugs stuffed the ballots (just as in Florida and Ohio) and still lost. Then had the gaul to sue.
History will not be kind to the likes of you.
What was significant is that he as much as said that in his announcement. I don't remember the exact quote, but something about the political makeup of the SCOW. The implication was that he would have appealed if he had a reason to think that the SCOW would be fair, but since they aren't.....
Posted by: Dogbert on June 6, 2005 08:54 PMThank you South County.
Posted by: Susan on June 6, 2005 08:55 PMAlso, if you were listening, he didn't say that Gregiore would have had more votes if he had allowed the R's argument. He didn't comment on the results of the R's arguement...he threw out their expert analysis. He said that if he went with the D's expert analysis, that Gregiore would still have won.
Posted by: Mark D on June 6, 2005 08:56 PMMark
Posted by: Mark D on June 6, 2005 09:03 PMThe trolls are tearing at us giving it their best but do not have a clue. We are disappointed but not down and not lost. What divides us from them is faith and peace, they do not have it and can not understand it. Faith will move a mountain and they will see that day happen when we arrive at the mountain that we are disdained to move together.
Until then I have to give thanks to the kind of people who will make it happen. I know I am forgetting many of you so please forgive me and keep adding to the list.
Scott M, Dogbert, Tommy, starboardhelm, cc, Cheryl, Shannon K, rolling eyes, Erik, BananaLand, Don, Mike, Mike S, Cliff, Mark D, TomG, Thoan, Gary F, Mr. Cynical, Victor, Jeff B, Splatter, maggie, hanna, chuck Miller, Jon Cohen, Deboarh, sschu, Anthony Jones, Fred, Elvis, Elvis is the king County, pbj, Ray, Mr. Grabbit, righton, Methow Ken, who’da thunk , Ron A, Jack, blurp, Victor, Danny, Michele, Bruce, Terry Clark C, Beth, pete, John Mckay, Bruce, Tucker, Scott in Carnation, zapporo, FastVoteFred, Tummis, Unicorn, scott159, ewaggin, Kim in Vancouver, Jim L, Jimmie-howya-doin, djf, Newman, Mark Bayer, alphabet soup, mary, OrovilleDave, Gill, Snuffy, Danny, JRR, sgmmac, Susu, GS, far Star, Lew, Jack, RookieRick, Susan.
May God bless all.
Still awaiting an answer to the previous post!!
Posted by: Mike P on June 6, 2005 09:05 PMAll that said. I like how you at least conceded to some of my previous point. You do have an open mind.
Posted by: Mark D on June 6, 2005 09:14 PMFirst time I've laughed all day...thank you. : )
If anybody knows what's up with the KING 5 poll, please post. By the time I got there, it was telling me to vote but there wasn't anywhere in the field to cast one - just a place to make a comment. (Which I did, which didn't appear, at least not immediately.)
Tax 'em Christine!
Posted by: The SimsLoganReedHandy Express on June 6, 2005 09:32 PMGodspeed....
Posted by: misplacedtexan on June 6, 2005 09:36 PMSoKC
Another typical buracrat/democrat
The control of our state by the dark side did not happen overnight. Unfortunately, complacency on the part of voters, over a long period of time, has allowed this corruption to dig deep roots. I'm ashamed of the times I have voted (as an example) for judges without examining their records, simply because they were at the end of the ballot and I was tired. Wrong judges = bad decisions. I'm sure each of us can find a place where we let our guard down.
The past is behind us, and a future that we can shape is ahead of us. Let's put on our armour and fight for what is right, just as we are exhorted to do in the Declaration of Independence. A few of you may understand my final remark . . . "if my people . . . " Enough said.
Posted by: lksimstrailgrammy on June 6, 2005 09:37 PMSeems like this must have been a Dale Foreman decision to go to Wenatchee....convinced the other lawyers he had more juice than he did (actually Dale has ZERO juice).
Posted by: dude on June 6, 2005 09:40 PM1. Bridges set an impossibly high standard months ago, ruling that the R's had to prove every vote for or against the candidates - and then stuck by it while the R lawyers diddling around charging $$/hr for nothing useful. Back at that ruling is when an appeal should have occurred.
2. Contain your energy and anger for useful work in 2006. Don't peak too soon. Get more GOOD candidates to run - you need the legislature under R control to do anything. Quit bitching and start planning.
3. Elections AREN'T won in courts. The enormous body of law that Shark (et.al.) has been learning and reporting about is now revealed to be wasted time. Your County election systems are cleverly set up alongside the law, not in COMPLIANCE with the law, such that there is no way to challenge or prosecute anything. Or did you notice?
4. Thanks to Shark, and Dino's class act, the R's have insurmountable high ground for 2006 and 2008. Get a good tag line ("Does YOUR vote really count in Washington?") and keep hammering away. Every action taken by the illegitimate Gregoire should be viewed through that prism.
5. I saw Florida switch from D to R, starting in 1966 when I moved there as a 7th grader, through 1995. It occurred because the D's went way left and folks just got fed up with the stench (notice a similarity?). These things don't happen swiftly, and setbacks occur. But if you always take the high ground and stress good policy for EVERYONE, as opposed to every special interest, you will win. Act like leaders and you soon will be.
6. And maybe, just maybe, I'll be moving my family across the river some day soon to help.
Showing up is 90% of the battle!
Posted by: viacalx on June 6, 2005 09:42 PMDon't you ever give up doing what you are doing. None of thise would have ever seen the light of day had it not been for you my freind.
Continue to keep your microscope on this corrupt Democrat aparatchik. You must continue exposing the corruption. It is greatly appreciated.
Posted by: pbj on June 6, 2005 09:42 PMDROVE MY CHEVY TO THE LEVY BUT THE LEVY WAS DRY: DUE TO DROUGHT CONDITIONS ALONG WITH ENVIROMENTAL CONCERNS AND GM GOING BANKRUPED I JUST STAYED HOME. PLUS THE LEVYS NOW REQUIRE A $5.00 DAY USE PARKING FEE.
GOOD OLD BOYS WERE DRINKING WHISKEY AND RYE SINGING THIS WILL BE THE DAY THAT I DIE: WITH THE INCRESS IN ALCOHOL TAXES WHO CAN AFFORD TO DRINK ANY MORE. IF YOU DO YOU WONT HAVE ANY MONEY LEFT TO PAY YOUR DEATH TAXES!
TODAY THE MUSIC DIED!!!
The Feds have been invited by many in this state to come here and get this screwed up election sorted out.
THEY WON'T.
Posted by: kim in vancouver on June 6, 2005 09:44 PMI'd love to host a BBQ, but I'm too close to downtown and I couldn't be responsible for what we'd do to city hall...Anyway, I'll be in touch, from someone at 'ground zero'(lower queen anne) for all this crap, I'm ready to do something; I don't care if it's for the next three and 1/2 years go to everything that c.g. hosts and have signs out, email everyone and remind them what a scam ron sims is, what ever I can do from here or from Texas when I move (it's just got to happen, I really am a Texan who moved up here for his wife...and now she's ready to move back)...I'll be happy to put my boot where it should go! Good luck to you all and Godspeed! I'll be in touch and would be proud to host a BBQ where we can share our thoughts.
PS...Everyone go to kinkos and get your www.nonewgastax.com forms! We can fight this one from the ground level...it's up to us!
Posted by: misplacedtexan on June 6, 2005 09:45 PMDo you agree with Judge Bridges' decision upholding the 2004 election of Christine Gregoire as governor?
Choice Votes Percentage of 5161 Votes
Yes. 1370 27%
No. 3750 73%
Not sure. 41 1%
http://www.nonewgastax.com
We can hurt them where it counts!
United we stand!
Posted by: Stand up! on June 6, 2005 09:50 PMApparently showing up twice is 100% of the battle.
Posted by: dave on June 6, 2005 09:51 PMI agree with much of what you say, however, I would respectfully submit that all the work that has gone into this contest was indeed NOT in vain. May I suggest that instead, this become known as the day that the "D's" will refer to as the one that awakened a "sleeping giant."
Enough of this talk of the "high road" I say. What must now begin -- begins in the trenches. The stench of this "election" surely must soak all the way to the grass roots. It is there that the true power will be found, but only if the message and the magnitude of the task is clearly understood by an apathetic public.
To borrow a phrase from a movie I rather liked:
"This is not the end. This is not the beginning of the end. This is the end of the beginning.
V
Posted by: Doc on June 6, 2005 10:03 PM
Misplacedtexan - I have a good friend in Dallas and althought I've never lived outside of WA, I have thought of moving to Dallas ever since my visit there. Mainly to find a good woman. Most women here cringe when they see the American Flag bumper sticker on my car and find out I voted for Bush. If you have the room to host a BBQ, I'm sure a lot of us would come!!!
Regarding the court ruling, I am of course disappointed in the result, but not in Judge Bridges. Quite frankly, I think he just did what a good judge is supposed to do. His job is not to "send messages", but to apply the law which is written by our legislature as faithfully as possible. I doubt that he took any real pleasure in reaching his decision but he did his job without letting his personal feelings or ego influence his decision. I think our election system in King County is truly a mess, we don't have a state law that protects us against gross incompetence, and I think things will get worse before they get better. I would encourage everyone to channel their anger or disapointment into working for constructive change.
Posted by: DMD on June 6, 2005 10:11 PMOh and Doc. I'm not surprised you are willing to host. I know that deep down you are well aware, that if you had to choose you would rather have a group of Repubs coming over to your place than a group of hard core CG supporters anyday.
Posted by: Mark D on June 6, 2005 10:15 PMDidn't you say you were going to enjoy seeing me "twist in the wind" a long while back? You were so certain. What happened?
Now you're seriously contemplating committing vote fraud supposedly what you've railed against all these months. Instead of being part of the solution you want to be part of the problem.
The Judge determined 1678 illegal votes 94% of which were felons, dead people and improper provisionals. Sam Reed's database is going to take care of most of that and color coding provisionals will take care of the rest. That leaves drum roll: 102 votes out of 2.8 million!
You want to increase that number? Sad indeed.
Posted by: John on June 6, 2005 10:17 PMWhat is so sad about it? He's following the judges advice, if you don't like the rules, change them but until then its not cheating if you're not caught.
Posted by: dave on June 6, 2005 10:24 PMYou hit the nail right on the head. We can do a lot together so lets not let time cause the fuse to fizzle. Together at the right time this will all be a faint memory and Rossi will be on top of what ever he is disdained to conquer for himself and all of us.
A. COURTS HAVE THE EQUITABLE POWER EVEN IN STATE (vs. LOCAL) ELECTIONS
The Foulkes v. Hays case does not give support to the claim that the court's equitable powers only apply to local elections and not state offices. That case bore directly on the same state statutes at issue in the present case (29.04.030 adopted under Laws of 1965 section 9, then recodified as RCW 29A.68.010, and now in 2004 recodifed as RCW 29A.68.011). I quote from that case:
Since the exact number of ballots which had been altered could not be ascertained, the court determined that the proper remedy for this neglect was the holding of a new election. From that determination these appeals were taken.
[1] Appellant's most basic challenge is to the power of courts to inquire into the conduct of elections and order new elections to correct improprieties therein under RCW 29.04.030.(fn.2) The broad language and murky legislative history « fnt3» of this statute show it to be a statutory recognition of the power of superior courts, acting within their general equity jurisdiction, to intervene in cases of election fraud or wrongdoing. Such jurisdiction would exist even without such recognition by virtue of Const. art. 4, § 6, unless it were "by law vested exclusively in some other court."
We have upheld its exercise in quo warranto proceedings to contest election results brought completely independent of statutory remedies. State ex rel. Morgan v. Aalgaard, 194 Wash. 574, 78 P.2d 596 (1938); State ex rel. Hott v. Hamilton, 118 Wash. 91, 202 P. 971 (1921); State ex rel. Hyland v. Peter, 21 Wash. 243, 57 P. 814 (1899); State ex rel. Blake v. Morris, 14 Wash. 262, 44 P. 266 (1896); cf. Hill v. Howell, 70 Wash. 603, 127 P. 211 (1912) (original mandamus jurisdiction of the Supreme Court invoked to test validity of election). [CAL note: I thought I heard Judge Bridges quote this case today in his decision].
This authority, whether based on a specific statute or the general equity jurisdiction, carries with it "all the means to carry it into effect." RCW 2.28.150. [See Text of RCW 2.28.150 below] Where appropriate, these necessary and proper powers would include the power to order a new election where no other remedy would adequately correct distortions in election results caused by fraud or neglect.«fnte 4»
I still maintain that Judge Bridges had the necessary equitable power to order a new election. In some ways, all this talk about needing new law is a distraction since those powers already exist.
B. NEGLECT IS ENOUGH - Fraud is NOT needed.
The Foukes v. Hayes case also tells us that neglect is enough for a new election - - Fraud is NOT needed. This exact point was a specific part of the Decision.
Finally, appellant argues that the evidence adduced below was inadequate to support the holding that there had been "neglect of duty on the part of an election officer." That finding was based on the trial judge's hearing of voluminous testimony and assessment of the credibility of the various witnesses. We are disinclined to substitute our judgment for his. The extensive expert testimony provided virtually the "clear, cogent and convincing" proof of impropriety appellant argues was necessitated by respondent's allegation of fraud. It certainly amounted to substantial evidence in support of the trial court's holding that, by a preponderance of the evidence, neglect, not fraud, had been shown.
C. EVIDENCE OF CHANGE OF OUTCOME NOT NEEDED. (i.e. Judge Bridge's insistence on evidence of "Causation").
The Washington Supreme Court in Hayes upheld a new election based on election worker neglect, and even where there was no evidence that the neglect changed the outcome of the election. "Since the exact number of ballots which had been altered could not be ascertained, the court determined that the proper remedy for this neglect was the holding of a new election."
D. The CORRECT DECISION DOES NOT DEPEND ON "JUDICIAL ACTIVISM".
Finally , its not judicial activism to follow prior Supreme Court cases - of which FOUKES v. HAYES is one. Its called stare decisis.
_____________________________Hayes Footnotes_________________________
(2) RCW 29.04.030 provides:
"Any justice of the supreme court, judge of the court of appeals, or judge of the superior court in the proper county shall, by order, require any person charged with error, wrongful act or neglect to forthwith correct the error, desist from the wrongful act, or perform the duty and to do as the court orders or to show cause forthwith why the error should not be corrected, the wrongful act desisted from, or the duty or order not performed, whenever it is made to appear to such justice or judge by affidavit of an elector that:
"(1) An error or omission has occurred or is about to occur in printing the name of any candidate on official ballots; or
"(2) An error other than as provided in subsections (1) and (3) of this section has been committed or is about to be committed in printing the ballots; or
"(3) The name of any person has been or is about to be wrongfully placed upon the ballots; or
"(4) A wrongful act other than as provided for in subsections (1) and (3) of this section has been performed or is about to be performed by any election officer; or
"(5) Any neglect of duty on the part of an election officer other than as provided for in subsections (1) and (3) of this section has occurred or is about to occur.
"An affidavit of an elector under subsections (1) and (3) above when relating to a primary election must be filed with the appropriate court no later than the second Friday following the closing of the filing period for nominations for such office and shall be heard and finally disposed of by the court not later than five days after the filing thereof."
«3» The relevant portions of the section, which is in the General Provisions chapter of the elections code, are based on two former sections, one limited to primary elections and one dealing only with misprinted ballots. See Rem. Rev. Stat. §§ 5202, 5276. The two were made unofficially consolidated by the Code Reviser, who apparently took the two acts together as creating a general power applicable to all errors in all elections. Their language was retained in 1965, when the provisions of Title 29 were formally codified. See Laws of 1965, ch. 9, p. 783. It has been substantially unchanged since.
«4» Similarly, the general equity jurisdiction of the federal courts has been held to include the power to void elections and order new ones in cases of gross violations of the constitution. See, e.g., Bell v. Southwell, 376 F.2d 659 (5th Cir. 1967); Coalition for Education v. Board of Elections, 370 F. Supp. 42 (S.D.N.Y. 1974).
RCW 2.28.150
Implied powers -- Proceeding when mode not prescribed.
When jurisdiction is, by the Constitution of this state, or by statute, conferred on a court or judicial officer all the means to carry it into effect are also given; and in the exercise of the jurisdiction, if the course of proceeding is not specifically pointed out by statute, any suitable process or mode of proceeding may be adopted which may appear most conformable to the spirit of the laws.
[1955 c 38 § 15; 1891 c 54 § 12; RRS § 69.]
Lkve chat tonight:
http://www.webcityusa..com/chat.html
All we needed was 130 convicts that we can prove voted for Gregoire, and we'd have won....
Join the legal chat tonight only.
gary
http://www.webcityusa..com/chat.html
What a laughing stock the RINO party and all it's toadies in this state are.
I just finished watching 'Band of Brothers' again, and it occurs to me Mr. Vance bears an uncanny resemblance to 'Captain Sobel'. Vance is perpetually disoriented, incompetent, self centered, self serving, self-important, more concerned about rivals within than enemies without and utterly loathed by the rank and file even if the higher-ups don't have his number.
If this were war, we would be lead to slaughter. Oh wait..
For those of you who actually thought the Washington state bar was going to pave the way for a Republican Governor, I have positions currently open for Bungee Jump platform testing-- paid medical!
The issue should never have been illegal votes, it should have been the way those illegal votes were tallied (along with the legal ones). The venue should never have been state courts where the outcome was predictable to anyone who has actually LIVED IN THIS STATE LONG ENOUGH to know what an excercise in masochism and futility it is to depend on public officials and status quo stooges to do the right thing. The time was when the votes were being counted... not five months after Christine 'landslide' Gregoire was already ensconced in the cozy comforts and confines of her new rent-free parsonage raising your taxes!!! Any idiot knows this!! Again plebs, possession is 9/10ths!
Rossi's legal team could not have been more incompetent, from beginning to end. But then what should we have expected from Dale Foreman, long-time party hack-extraordinaire who has more defeats to his credit than FRANCE!
For the rest of you who are sick and tired of turncoat liberal Slade Gorton clones and clonettes like the Seattle dickheads (and their political enablers in Bellevue) who voted for the gas tax after leading conservatives in this state down the road to national ridicule and scorched earth annihilation, you can email me.
It's time for a reckoning.
Posted by: Jim on June 6, 2005 10:35 PMA judge can only rule on evidence that meets a standard of proof within the confines of the law. Your "dream team" couldn't hack it!
Posted by: John on June 6, 2005 10:35 PMOh who was responsible for hiring them? Are you holding Rossi blameless?
What a great governor he would have made...
Posted by: John on June 6, 2005 10:40 PM2005--Dino Rossi elected King County Executive.
2006--Reagan Dunn elected to the U.S. Senate
2008--Dino Rossi elected Governor after a successful three years as County Executive--remember Locke was elected Governor after only three years. He is replaced by Council President Reagan Dunn.
2010--Rob McKenna elected to the U.S. Senate, ending Patty Murray's career. Governor Rossi appoints Dale Foreman as Attorney General.
Posted by: Elvis is the King County on June 6, 2005 10:48 PMHe would still make a decent governor, at least as far as Washington state is concerned.
And Doc, I'm on the side of winning.
Posted by: Jim on June 6, 2005 10:51 PMHow about if Reagan Dunn gets his learners permit first.
Nice lawyer fetish you have there.
What a good little elitist enabler you are.
Posted by: Jim on June 6, 2005 10:57 PMHey! I wonder if they have the Blank Ballots printed up yet for the next election! We can grab a few stacks!....snicker....Puh!
On a serious note - I am looking forward to signing the No New Gas Tax form! I will be seeking one out tomorrow!
The people have spoken!
Posted by: D0c on June 6, 2005 11:05 PM
Also Doc I notice you didn't have much to say when I destroyed your felon voter comment earlier tonight.
Not yet, but they will!
ReElect Rossi!
Posted by: otto on June 6, 2005 11:25 PMThe laws are designed to protect the Dem machine. And, the fraud in KC took advantage of those laws.
The only way to challenge an election is to prove the unprovable - exactly who each illegal voter voted for. This can't be done for obvious reasons.
So, KC continues to rule over the state.
Sad.
Posted by: BananaLand(aka Iguana) on June 6, 2005 11:37 PMThough I admit a bias for Rossi, I don't really care who finally prevailed. Most of them are crooks in both parties, sadly. BUT>>>
What really makes me mad is that the judge just told us that it is okay to violate 4 or 5 specific WACs, conspire to do so, publicly admit it in court (!) and it is okay, no problemo.....
What the hell? The LAW is very specific and yet can be read by any semi-literate adult to understand what "shall" means!! (i.e., shall properly credit, etc.)
Where is the LAW in all of this. How can any judge interpret these statutes incorrectly. The WACs referred to do NOT require any evidence of fraud, only fact. And they were admitted in court, for cripesakes!
I have lost all respect for the court in this one.
We ALL lost!
You are a bunch of sore
LOOOSSEERRSSSSSS
Put them in your car windows. Plaster them on public bulletin boards. Wallpaper the entire outside of the KCE administration building with them.
Stuffing ballot boxes is not a game conservatives can win. Some will "talk tough" right now in the heat of the moment, but when it boils down to it, 90% of you know your moral compass is too strong to enable to you to lower yourself to cheating.
The media is not much of an option. We saw through the coverage of this contest what we already knew - that they will spin spin spin for their liberal providers.
Blogs are great, but don't delude yourself into thinking that there is widespread awareness of what has just transpired in our state. Joe Schmoe on the street didn't follow the contest, and only "knows" what he reads in the papers - if he even reads the papers.
Which means the way to make yourself heard is good old-fashioned grassroots action. Be a human billboard. Be ready to talk to people reasonably and calmly (and walk away from the moonbats who aren't intersted in conversing like rational people).
ILLEGAL VOTES STOLE MY VOICE!
Posted by: RookieRick on June 6, 2005 11:48 PMWe need to stick together more and second guess less and see where this is leading us. We are a party of people who care more about honesty, and valued leadership then what "WE" think should have been done different. Lets give it time and pray for direction and see what happens next, because this is not over yet.
It may be true the democrats are in the weakest position they have been in for a long time in this state. They are only in that position because of their own arrogance, not because of anything Republicans have done--wittingly anyhow.
It would be foolish to allow the same people who engineered all of the buffoonery that gave the D's cause to hold themselves in such lofty esteem, to call the shots next time around regardless of how low they've managed to set the bar for themselves.
I could envision a scenario where in spite of the boobs and boobettes in Bellevue, R's gain a few seats in each house and crap away millions to re-elect Maria Carpetbagging Cantwell, only to have Chris Vance contort his two-faced mugs for the cameras in the fiendish way only a real condescending politician can and exclaim it a triumph of Alexandrian proportions!!!!
Posted by: Jim on June 6, 2005 11:57 PMOf course, whenever we have the party it will be NO TROLLS, SOCIALI$TS or DEMOCRATS allowed. And we will require ID and Voter Registration card to get in, unlike KC polling places.
Have a good size propane BBQ, will travel.
Posted by: Jeff B. on June 7, 2005 12:09 AMI'm a Republican. I know my fellow Republicans are loathe to anti-law and order action because law and order is the mother's milk of civil society. We disdain unruly mobs of angry citizens. But it's time to get over our love of order and embrace a little chaos. Under our system of checks and balances and separation of powers, the courts are the final venue for redress of grievances. Judge Bridges has failed in his duty to accept this role by providing the good people of Washington with the paradoxical remedy of using a corrupted ballot box to rid themselves of the corrupted ballot box.
Republicans can sit on their haunches talking about "next time", complacent in the self-righteous indignation they hold as the mark of martyrdom, or they can get off their arses and deal with this the way real men would.
Is there no limit, no point at which we break and resort to other methods of saying "NO!" to this form of governmental abuse? You see, this wasn't just the candidates cheating or John Q. Citizen getting away with a couple extra votes. This was about a corruption machine placed to negate the expressed will of the people in relation to how state power and authority over your family, money and property will be vested should their will run country to the interests of those currently vested with that power.
I remember reading in these blogs that your last election did not have nearly as many errors as this one. Why might that be? The answer is that there will always be only enough "errors" necessary to negate the expressed will of those seeking a changing of the political guard.
Look at your election laws and look at who wrote them. Then ask yourselves, "Why were they written thusly by those particular people?" Then look at who is responsible at the state level and at the KC level for your elections. Ask yourselves, "Why are those particular people there?"
With Judge Bridges decision, WA state voters have eclipsed the limitations of the ordinary remedies available to the citizenry. You have no way out of this through any of the three branches of state government. So now what?
One choice is to stay in the system and: 1). appeal the decision to the state supreme court. Do you think you'll succeed in getting your electoral process purified through that entity? or; 2). try to force your legislature to repeal and rewrite these laws. Think that will work? or; 3). How about a ballot initiative? Maybe, but you're back to who's counting the votes with that one. And who will force the legislature to honor it if it succeeds? Judge Bridges?
Another choice is to continue to wring your hands in despair and blame the lawyers and the people in control of state government, etc.. That's real productive.
Or you can recognize that you're the frog in the pot who realized too late that he was being boiled alive because the heat was turned up ever so slowly while his attention was willingly diverted with other amusements.
A successful frog would take the leap.
Posted by: Kitty on June 7, 2005 12:19 AMRe-elect someone to be proud of - ROSSI!
Posted by: TADD on June 7, 2005 12:23 AMSo much for doing the right thing.
(Just joking)
Posted by: Andy SW on June 7, 2005 03:22 AMI would not only CLEAN OUT KC elections dept. (VOTE), I would oppose (as long and as hard as possible) ALL new TAXES and 'party favors' that are coming!
Making sure that nothing that can't be 'fixed' would be allowed to 'pass'.
The one thing to not loose sight of, is that all this CAN be fixed with your VOTE!
YOU HAVE THE POWER!
YOU are wiser now. They won't be able to 'sucker punch' you again.
Posted by: arky on June 7, 2005 04:18 AMConcerning the election fraud that took place in the KC elections department.
You do not have to see a rotting corpse to smell a rotting corpse.
The distribution of voterless mail ballots is so biased as to be statistically impossible to be caused by errors.
Posted by: JC Bob on June 7, 2005 05:04 AMWell, yeah. Logan, Durkan, Sims, Gregoire, Bridges.
They're people.
Posted by: ScottM on June 7, 2005 05:10 AMThis has been watched closely by the Dems on a clandestine basis and you can bet Dean and Clinton are mobilizing now to spread the virus to the rest of the party for close races and more in '06 and '08.
Going be interesting to see. Bush better get some new Supremes in quickly.
Posted by: Demdemsischeaters on June 7, 2005 05:45 AMThe trouble with this approach is that you no longer have a system of elective representative democracy. By requiring one party's candidates to attain a supermajority in order to hold office, while allowing the other party's candidates to "win" with a minority, you abrogate the electoral system we have traditionally embraced. If you want to do that, fine, but I think we should know what we're getting into if we allow it. It will no longer be a system of self-rule and the government will no longer be one of the people, by the people, and for the people, and will no longer derive it's just powers from the consent of the governed.
Posted by: Interested Observer on June 7, 2005 06:09 AMFortunately, the judge did not allow them to get away with that strategy. (So I suppose he'll be the next target of their slander.)
The best thing Rossi could do for himself is to back away from the national Republicans (the mavens of scorched earth politics) who aided and encouraged him in this -- and start acting as if he gives a damn about the well being of his state. Belately, he seems to realize that.
Frankly though, a man who is willing to debase himself by going on Hannity & Colmes and, to satisfy personal ambition, falsely trashing the place that made him, could never win my vote.
Posted by Bostonian at June 7, 2005 05:47 AM
How will you ever know if it is close? This decision essentially gives whoever is in control of the elections departments in each county carte blanche to count any votes they want to count and ignore any votes they so chose. It can all be attributed to "errors and mistakes". While the Judge publicly castigated KC for their handling of the election, it will have no effect whatsoever. Look how much public castigation, ridicule, and derision has been heaped on KC in the last 6 months. Look at the number of "errors and mistakes" that have publicly been pointed out. How many people in the KC elections department lost their jobs over it? How many people have been reassigned? Remember "We have an election accuracy any bank would be proud of."? How about " This was a model election."? Since the judge imposed no legally binding sanctions of any kind on KC, they have no incentive to make any changes. So some local superior court judge in Chelan County said some bad things about them. Do you really believe it will have any effect? Do you really believe, now that they have the freedom to manipulate election results any way they chose, that they will ever relinquish their power in KC. It is possible, I suppose, but then I suppose it might also be possible for scientists to find a way for me to flap my arms and fly to California. Not bloody likely, in other words. You can call me a pessimist if you wish, I call it more of a realist point of view.
BTW, isn't it quite a coincidence that the No New Gas Tax initiative (912) just happened to have the attorneys that were opposing it agree to a minor change in the wording about 20 minutes after this decision was released yesterday? If I was a conspiracy theorist, I might be tempted to conclude that the attorneys fighting said initiative were stonewalling and waiting for the decision before they essentially gave up every position they were fighting for. Interesting.
Posted by: dragon on June 7, 2005 06:23 AMThere's nothing sweeter than watching a repukelican attacking a repukelican!
Posted by: Dinno's A Crybaby on June 7, 2005 06:53 AMILLEGAL VOTES STOLE MY VOICE
Don't make me be the doofus driving around with a sign all by himself :)
Posted by: RookieRick on June 7, 2005 07:03 AMVery amusing indeed.
I will be interested to see if you will be able to change the law enough to keep someone from stealing a vote, in front of your eyes. Sorry, I doubt it. The people do not have any power when the judicial can not exercise common sense.....or refuse.
Anyone up here notice how 7 Republican Senators enacted a takeover of the Senate? Seven (7) Senators managed to steal 60 million votes, 48 other Senator votes, and managed to blackmail the third branch of government at the same time. Seven (7). I mention it because the subject at this site is really vote fraud. How can you change the laws to enact honest elections when we have laws that can let SEVEN (7) people steal so many votes. And it is legal.
Good luck.....enjoyed your battle. Not your fault that it was stolen. After all, SEVEN (7) people can steal over 60 million votes and convince people that it is okay because it was done in the name of "moderation". To hell with all the other voters, to hell with all the other elected Senators, to hell with a newly elected President. Only what SEVEN (7) all knowing "moderate as in GODS" want, trumps over 60 million. Guess it's okay to steal votes, kidnap one branch of government and hold the other hostage, as long as you give it a name such as "moderate". And this crime was committed in our faces with news conferences. SEVEN GODS vs millions. Even if you wanted the ultimate outcome, this was a criminal stealing of votes, and it's legal. So there are other legal ways to steal votes.
Posted by: owl on June 7, 2005 07:22 AMThey can literally just keep counting ballots (and finding new ballots) as much as they want, until their "person" wins (I'm not so sure I'd call Gregoire and Sims, et al, "people", like a previous commenter).
The problem is, it can't be a one-man revolution, and the rest of us are too wimpy to actually do anything like that, so we just go along with the status quo, getting our rights trampled along the way and suffering like martyrs.
It's obvious to me now that all paths of diplomacy have ended. The time for action is now. According to judge b@st@rd bridges, it's up to us to vote these corrupt vote-counters out of office!!! Ridiculous. Who's with me?? Yeah, I thought so.....*sigh*.....
Posted by: Scott on June 7, 2005 07:27 AMI was very impressed with the way he presented himself in the news conference last night.
The democrats now face a bitter-sweet victory. They may have won this battle but the fight for the heart and soul of Washington State may be lost.
Posted by: jaybo on June 7, 2005 07:37 AMStarve the beast.
For those of us in the "Jesusland" portions of WA state, how about borrowing a page from the moveon-ians -- and consider pressing to be the '51st' star on the US flag.
Posted by: FlyingTigress on June 7, 2005 07:41 AMWashington State Election Watch
Posted by: starboardhelm on June 7, 2005 07:44 AMTHE OLYMPIAN
The Republican Governors Association found positive news in Monday's Chelan County ruling in the challenge to Gov. Christine Gregoire's election victory and issued a call for her to resign.
The group's executive director, Mike Pieper, said the court decision confirms that Christine Gregoire's election was tainted by illegal votes.
"We now have a court decision declaring 1,678 votes cast in the election as illegal," he wrote in a news release. "Because this overwhelming number of illegal votes far surpasses the 129-vote margin of Mrs. Gregoire's victory, I encourage her to do her part in re-establishing the legitimacy of the governorship of Washington by resigning and calling for a new election in November.
"Without a means to determine for whom the illegal votes were cast, the voters of Washington state will never know who truly won and should be given the opportunity to participate in a new election."
--------------------------
Think she'll do it? Har!
Also folks you ought to attend you next central committee meeting like I did last week. Listening to Socialist Shirley Hankins give sugar coated excuses why she voted for the gas tax was gagging. There won't be any changes in the way the leg does business until we clean house by throwing the Dems and majority of the RHINO's out the door. Any legislator who voted for ANY tax increase of any kind needs replaced. They firmly believe we can tax our way out of debt.
There will have to be a total house cleaning in the state Repuganton Party also. Those who feel that Chris Vance and Company are doing a fine job take a look who they support as candidates. If the state party could be cleaned up there would be a lot of ethical and pricipled people who would come forth that would make great legislators. I fear it will never happen
Mel
As an individual I intend to wage a political monkey wrench operation. If Sims is for someyhing, I'm against it; if someone wants to start an initiative to resist the RAT machine, I'll donate dollars and signatures.
First up, election 2005. Sims needs to go down.
I agree.
The GOP needs to take a firm stance on this and it has not done so. Some people have been urging Republicans to move more to the center politically. Republicans voting for oppressive taxes is the result. With every leftist move the Democrats make, Republicans need to move right to counterbalance the Socialist policies of the increasingly ultra-left wing Democratic Party. What this election taught me is that "middle of the road" Republicans like Reed are spineless. I am no longer a conservative; I am now an ultra-conservative, thanks to Ms Chris Fraudoire and Party.
Personally, I've taken hundreds of dollars out of their pockets, and kept the money in mine, so far this year. Each of us could take back thousands of dollars a year.
Posted by: Larry on June 7, 2005 08:41 AMSlandering elderly poll workers? If you really want to sound intelligent and shame someone, you should at least base it on fact. Where did someone claim that it was the elderly poll workers?
Where's your concern for my feelings? I took time out of my day, went and voted my conscience, and my vote was robbed from me because at the very least 1600 illegal voters also got to vote and then someone "found" an additional 1400 votes that got to be counted in king county.
Why would elderly poll workers feelings be more important than my vote?
The persons who were 'slandered' in the trial were the election officials who FALSIFIED reports, 'relaxed' regulations and then spent MONTHS covering it up. Oh wait, is it slander when they admit under oath that's what they did?
You should at least have some shame for the total fiasco that King county elections were shown to be in court. Even if you don't believe it was fraud and that the election should be redone, you should at least admit that there is no "will of the people" that can be known here when there are 3000 more illegal/improper votes than there was margin of election.
If all you do is blather about the "will of the people" finally winning out, then you just show yourself to be a non-thinking drone repeating whatever your party tells you to say.
Posted by: rb on June 7, 2005 08:43 AMhttp://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/227330_kingcoed.asp#pollArticle
Posted by: jaybo on June 7, 2005 08:47 AMYou said,
"A few of you may understand my final remark . . . "if my people . . . " Enough said."
Indeed! :)
Is that surprising!!!
Posted by: chris on June 7, 2005 09:05 AMWHERE DID YOU GET THE BUMPER STICKER??? I want one..... as a matter of fact, I want a dozen, so I can give them to all my friends!
Posted by: sgmmac on June 7, 2005 09:09 AM
Its certainly disappointing the way
things worked out.Dino is one of the few
people politically I believe in.He
will be back to fight another day.
At least Dino can sleep at night knowing
he fought honorably.Gregiore can't say
that.The message she sent to her children
and everyone else is it doesn't matter
how you win.Just as long as you do.
This also seals the fate of chris vance
I have it on very good authority that in
order for chris to keep his job the gop
needed to prevail in this legal preceeding.
I once again must say that while the King
county elections division is corrupt and
incommpetent.The bigger problem in king
county. Is the king county republican
party.Things must change here and soon.
We would not be where we are now had
they done anything to get the vote out.
I will continue to say this until everyone
hears me.
A new beginning starts this saturday
at the convention.After its all said
and done everyone will know whom I am
in a good way I hope.
We have been the minority party in this state so long we are just sheep. It's embarassing. The Dems would have fought (and did) like bare knuckles boxers. It's just pathetic. Politics is war by other means. Why doesn't anyone get that?
All I can say is: EASTERN WASHINGTON STATEHOOD NOW!!!! The panty waist west side Republicans of Bellevue will never save us.
Posted by: On the Far Right Side of the State on June 7, 2005 09:30 AMI do not blame the Judge in Chelan County, I think he followed the poorly written law. He interpeted the law, not create new law, like so many activist liberal judges do these days.
King County is crooked. It was proven in court. But that does not matter to the Dems.
The Dems are like a bunch of school kids that cheated on a test, and on Monday learned they got away with it.
I will teach my son that the while the GOP may not be perfect, they try to do it right. The Dems are liars and simply don't care how they win, but the ends justify the means.
God help us all, this state is going down the toilet and nobody even cares!
Posted by: Bruce on June 7, 2005 09:43 AMA good idea just got even better.
Posted by: otto on June 7, 2005 09:47 AMHere is the website for the bumpersticker. I placed mine on the back window of my car so it is more noticable.
Scroll 2/3 down the page. Mine is in the original orange.
http://www.4wethepeople.com/
I bought a bunch and have been giving them away to whomever wanted one. I hope you'll do the same. Let's get the msg out that justice has been denied to all the people.
Mel
I'm surprised nobody took on this quote, until I realized that it was too elementary for the discussion, even with the sarcasm. But it's like I'm 5 again and playing with a spider...I just have to do it.
Apparently, Officer Down, the only thing more shallow than your ability to make a point by facetious means is your intellect. To break this down into wading pool terms for you: A court of law admitted that 1,678 illegal votes were counted in a race that was decided by 129 votes. What additional proof do you want?
As for your crying reference to every one of the people who have posted something here on this blog, how dare you mock those whose fundamental democratic right was denied them in the 2004 general election!
And lest you forget, Officer Shallow, the leader of your own state party shed a few false tears during a tv interview at the beginning of this saga in the name of political theater...perhaps the most shameless political stunt I have ever witnessed. So let me politely point out that you have no high ground in this argument.
You have much to learn, Shallow Intellect. So until you do, leave the discussion to the adults.
Posted by: wry on June 7, 2005 09:48 AMWhy would Utah, New Hampshire, etc. want to share power? Their senators votes would be diluted from 1 per 100 to 1 per 102. If I were in their shoes, I wouldn't do it.
Why do you think our newer states are so big and weren't broken down into smaller land masses?
But, if you were to increase the size of Idaho, it might work.
And, that judge did the right thing, as much as I dislike it. There is one thing I hate as much as corrupt politicians and that is activist judges. Bridges is not an activist, but I don't know why he couldn't just this once try to correct this horrible law.
Posted by: swatter on June 7, 2005 09:48 AMIt could happen. This will be interesting
Posted by: Michele on June 7, 2005 10:00 AMThanks.
Posted by: Robyn on June 7, 2005 10:01 AMIt's a shame that we have corruption in our electoral process, and I'm at least glad that Bridges pointed it out.
But I also hope that the Republicans adhere to the old boxing adage of taking care of the opponent in the ring so as not to leave your fate at the hands of the judges.
To me, a moderate Republican who abstained from voting in this election, defeating Gregoire should have been a slam-dunk. We have been successful at electing moderate Republicans in this state. Socially moderate, moderately green, fiscal conservatives like me hate the tax-and-spend, patronage-and-corruption oriented bureaucrats like Sims and Gregoire, but also don't identify with Alabamian-type conservatism that Dino tried to conceal but eventually shone through.
Unfortunately, the moderate wing of the Republican party (the soccer moms who live in Issaquah, for instance, and probably voted for Gregoire) has been silenced by the insurgent right-wing from the East Slope. We either don't vote or very reluctantly split our votes between too-conservative-for-our-liking Nethercuttians or stagnant Status Quo bureaucrats.
Give me an environmentally aware, fiscally conservative, social moderate committed to intelligent growth in the Puget Sound area and I'll vote again (and vote Republican).
In the meantime, though, I do agree that the King County system needs oversight and an overhaul.
Posted by: Dan Singh on June 7, 2005 10:09 AM1. (She ain't nothing but a )Hound Dog
2. Jail House Rock (Democrat Version)
3. Suspicious Minds
4. A little less conversation
5. Amazing Grace
I'll be there representing 45-2769. Maybe us SP'rs should have a colored ribbon or other id to find each other.
"Kick Sims and ilk out in '05 "
Thanks,
Robyn
Posted by: Robyn on June 7, 2005 10:15 AMYou're an idiot.
"To me, a moderate Republican who abstained from voting in this election, defeating Gregoire should have been a slam-dunk."
Paraphrase:
"To me, someone who does nothing, it should have been easy to do something."
Take a long look in the mirror, then take a long look at Governor Christine Gregoire. You can't have one without the other!
Have you ever heard of the phrase "Cut off your nose to spite your face"? I wonder if you can smell the stench from King County without your nose.
Posted by: Larry on June 7, 2005 10:24 AM the convention I speak of is at 10am
on saturday at the meydenbauer center.
This a convention to determine who goes
on to the general election as district
council candidates.
The delegates that were selected last
month at the caucuses will vote on this matter.
Ie:hammond-dunn among others.
Meydenbauer, that would be Bellevue, correct?
Posted by: Robyn on June 7, 2005 10:43 AMThat is correct it is in bellevue.
Posted by: phil spackman on June 7, 2005 10:55 AMWhatever you do, may the good Lord be with you, and bring you continued success!
Posted by: Daniel Kauffman on June 7, 2005 11:31 AMI'm sorry that by exercising my right to not vote for someone who doesn't reflect my values system I've angered you so and caused you to stoop to calling me names.
I don't want Gregoire, but I damn sure don't want Rossi either. I'm not happy either way.
Mine and your party need me, but they alienate me by nominating people who are unpalatable to a huge bloc of voters. I guarantee you that if the Republicans had nominated a reasonably charismatic moderate Gregoire would have been DESTROYED. It would not have been close. Give me someone who I can vote for and I'll do it.
Face it. You can dislike my political values to the point that it frustrates you (you are so much like my leftist friends who get angry with me because I am a Republican). You can stoop to calling me names, which I would never do to you, but that will not solve the problem named Chris Gregoire that you have now.
Again. Give me and the moderate Republican voters of Washington a moderate Republican, and we will help you take the state back.
I gotta agree with you. In my mind, one of the things that have always separated most Repubs from most Democrats (note the intentional lack of characterizing ALL) is that D's will generally blindly vote for anything that has a D after the name. Most Repubs I've spoken with are more sensible, and will "cross lines" when the R candidate is too extreme, too weak, or when the D is moderate and seems capable.
I've often thought that despite the fact that I'm definitely a fiscal conservative and a social moderate, I could run for office as a D almost anywhere in KC, Pierce, Thurston or Snohomish Counties and win, even if I spoke my true mind.
I have increasingly called myself an independent over the years b/c of the tendency for both parties and their candidates to drift to the extremes.
Going to this blog and "trolling" some of the far-left blogs convinces me that on balance, the average R is much more level-headed and honest than the average D. I seldom, if ever, hear any moderate reasoning from anyone who professes to be a devout D. It makes it difficult for me not to think of them in terms of lemmings or sheep.
I am disappointed with the ruling, but can very much see how Bridges had little choice. I do feel that he laid the groundwork for an appeal to the WSSC, and wouldn't be surprised to see one of the other plaintiffs appeal.
In any event, as much as I try to be open-minded, this entire situation leaves such a bitter taste in my mouth for anything that professes to be Democrat, that I just hope that I can come back to a place where I can keep the open mind.
What amazes me most is that we are probably the bluest of all blue states - even Massachusetts and California have Republican governors!! If you look at the "blue/red/purple" maps that CNN showed right after the 2004 elections, it was all concentrated in KC. One small geographical area counters the will of the the remaining 99.5% of the state. I live only 20 miles from Idaho, and I'll spend every penny I can over there.
S.R.
Posted by: Spokane Repub on June 7, 2005 02:48 PMYou're STILL an idiot. You watch from the bleachers, and believe it would be SOOO easy to win, if only you could play.
Here's a lesson about politics for you: Politicians are never perfect for any voter. Apparently you don't grasp this fact.
If you're waiting for the perfect politician FOR YOU - when have you ever voted? For whom WOULD you vote? Politics is a 51/49 game most of the time. You agree with one side 51% and you should vote with them, because if you don't you'll get 49%. What's the difference? Two damn percent. That's all you get and you better like it!
You state "if the Republicans had nominated a reasonably charismatic moderate"...have you ever met Dino? I found him to be VERY charismatic every time we met, every time I saw him speak in public. I'm not sure what you meant by calling him an "Alabamian-type conservatism", but if you're waiting for another Ronald Reagan, you may as well be waiting for Godot.
So keep doing nothing, Dan, and keep wondering why it's so hard to change anything. You're welcome to stay home for the next ten elections.
Welcome to politics, Dan. You certainly don't know much about our two-party system, if you expect candidates to be tailored to your views when you don't participate. Do you go to Replublican meetings? Are you going to the King Country Republican convention? Do you volunteer to knock on doors or help with the phone banks? Do you do anything?? You don't participate in the process, but you wish it were more tailored for YOU. It's all about DAN.
Welcome to the cruel world.
Posted by: Larry on June 7, 2005 03:21 PMThank you for making it clear which party is a party of enclusion and openess, and which is a party of narrow minded, ideological people who will hate you unless you agree with 100% of what they think.
Dan, I still vote for the occasional rational Evans Republican, although they have been mostly driven out of this state by the true believers (I voted for Sam Reed, for instance). So come on over to the party of sanity and leave those who will not tollerate any variance from what they proclaim to be right.
Posted by: JDB on June 7, 2005 04:20 PMNice try, Shirley Temple. Oh, you're sooooo inclusive, and you've never insulted anyone on this board! You're one of the most vitriolic and ignorant people I've ever read. If it weren't for Noam Chomsky, I'd say you are the most mis-led person in this country.
I think I said above that he should be willing to vote for anyone he agrees with 51% of the time. Apparently, that means that I hate anyone I disagree with. Makes perfect sense - if you're an idiot.
But go ahead and court Dan to your side. If he couldn't find someone to vote for or against in this election, he's a waste of time.
Posted by: Larry on June 7, 2005 08:36 PMI am a die-hard independent, and I had no qualms whatsover voting for Rossi over Gregoire. Why? Because Gregoire is obviously anti-business and anti-freedom. Sue companies we dislike and crow about how much money we "made?" Behavior modification via taxation? Revolting ideas.
In short, if you can't stand "for" one candidate, then pick the one you're willing to stand "against." Either that or become one yourself.
RR
Posted by: RookieRick on June 7, 2005 08:37 PM