Some city officials from East St. Louis were convicted of vote fraud in federal court today.
It would be nice if our local U.S. Attorney would at least investigate some of the disturbing unanswered questions from the King County Elections debacle, e.g. Did Nicole Way commit perjury? Why is that imbecile Bill Huennekens still on the public payroll? Could it be a payoff for not telling all that he knew?
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at June 29, 2005 11:47 PM | Email ThisYour examples of questionable issues with regard to our last election are worthy of the Feds interest...but don't you think there was/is a whole lot more going on in King County that should have had the Feds busting in at midnight and securing the election offices, software and documents?
We've uncovered so much evidence during the past 7 months....The Feds have been invited. The Feds have shown they are up to rapid coordination of an investigation - ie; West in Spokane...So......what is up with McKay?
He knows King County is corrupt. I know the Feds don't make much money.....but.....
How deep are the Democrats pockets?
Posted by: Deborah on June 30, 2005 01:11 AMGoodness knows, committing blog fraud means never having to be consistent.
Deborah, while the GOP has been able to show there were errors, no one has been able to show anything like a criminal action. We had a trial a month or so ago, perhaps you paid attention to it. After four million dollars, the GOP was able to show absolutely no fraud or conspiracy.
Perhaps you didn't hear, the case was so weak that Dino Rossi didn't even appeal. It was in the news. I'll post a link if you need one.
Banana and MC:
Could it be that the federal prosecutor doesn't want to be laughed out of court for bringing a purely political prosecution?
Posted by: JDB on June 30, 2005 02:01 AMSince Washington is a voter intent state and the democratic controlled canvassing board does the determination on voter intent, that is all that is needed to sway any election whichever you want.
It surely was harder for Sims to control the people at the convention, rather than the people who work for him. The workers at King County Elections are scared to death and there is fear in their workplace. Take the time to read the latest committee report on the place. It isn't pretty, as a matter of fact, it's downright disgusting.
They are hiding big things in that place. It should be obvious to you from the well timed press releases of the bad things (always late Friday afternoon), their responses to FOIA requests, and their testimony in both depositions and on the witness stand.
Neither Bill Huennekins or Dean Logan seem to display any leadership skills whatsoever. If you put both of them together, they wouldn't make a good pimple on a real leader's butt!
and what's behind all of the close door meetings up there???????????
Posted by: sgmmac on June 30, 2005 03:38 AMMeanwhile, back at the ranch, the Robinson family and Dr. Smith have stumbled onto a poaching operation upon their return from the pounding for the new church parson. It seems Robot left several clues as to where it was taken and, and, and...
LOOK JDB...PIGS FLYING!!!!
(we now return you to your regular programming...JDB has been a test of the Idiot Alert System. Since he is an actual idiot, the warning system worked properly.)
Posted by: Danny on June 30, 2005 05:08 AMNot only did Gore narrowly get the Missouri vote, but conjecture was that was how Gephardt stayed in office.
Posted by: swatter on June 30, 2005 05:57 AMFor those of you unfamiliar with East St. Louis, the city some years ago went bankrupt and has been taken over by Illinois. I think the same thing can be said for it's school district. Illinois spent $$$ million on a riverboat gambling cas1no as an employment project for East St. Louis residents but could find virtually no East St. Louis residents who could pass the criminal background check required for employment in a cas1no.
I would suggest that anyone who values their life and property not linger to long in East St. Louis, IL.
By the way, less than 10 miles east of East St. Louis, the corn fields are being converted to single family residents at a pace I find astounding. I am not sure where all those people work but it certainly in NOT in East St. Louis.
PS. I know how to spell cas1no but for some reason I cannot post a message with cas1no correctly spelled.
Posted by: JC Bob on June 30, 2005 06:45 AMThe office of the US Attorney for Western Washington has a hands off policy when it comes to public corruption in the state of Washington. I have evidence.
Don
Posted by: Don on June 30, 2005 07:20 AMDanny -- Sheesh, all that evidence. I guess Judge Bridges must be an idiot too? Or maybe he's also been bought off? Or maybe he's part of an Al-Qaeda sleeper cell? Or maybe he's an alien body snatcher?
Posted by: Jeff Gannon on June 30, 2005 07:26 AMBut wasn't it close? But I am sure that one of the legislative races was won by the last second voters when the Dem judge kept the polls open in St. Louie.
Posted by: swatter on June 30, 2005 07:44 AMIs a violation of a WAC a criminal action? Of course not, it's just an innocent mistake, a result of incompetance, right?
There were numerous WACs violated in this past election. If you missed the news, we'd all be happy to provide the links and the evidence of the violated WACs.
But the claims by the Democrats were that these violations were not fraudulent and didn't throw the election. But does that mean they weren't criminal? Ignorance is not a defense, JDB, no matter how often you try to hide behind it.
Posted by: Larry on June 30, 2005 08:42 AMBut, Judge Bridges did NOT say that no crimes had been committed. Only that the ones the plaintiff claimed were not proven to his satisfaction. There appears to be plenty of illegal activity to warrent an investigation, but we will not get one. Don has a good point about our US Attorney...definately looking like an ostrich. Then made sure his office was busy with a morals investigation outside their district (Spokane).
Nicole & company admitted to deliberately and knowingly breaking state election laws. Hello, where is a prosecution team??? With very little effort, I can name several other apparent violations of state and federal election laws. Was there ever a clear accounting of when the military ballots were mailed? Did King County lie to the feds about when they completed these mailings?
Lots of questionable and illegal activity here that will never see the light of a proper investigation, so don't hold your breath waiting for one.
Posted by: dl on June 30, 2005 08:58 AMSay goodnight PI!
Posted by: alphabet soup on June 30, 2005 09:02 AMWe are a voter intent state, I will note that the canvassing board has Republicans on it, and no one, repeat, no one, has made any claims that the decisions on voting intent were done improperly. Not even an issue at the trial.
Danny, Jarhead et al:
OK, what is your reasoning for why the Republican U.S. Attorney, the Republican Attorney General of the State of Washington, and the Republican King County Prosecuting Attorney won't touch this with a 20 foot poll? Why did Dino Rossi and Chris Vance drop their case like a hot potato instead of appeal? Oh, that's right, you don't have one.
As I have said, if you really belive in your case, let's dedicate this site to protesting the GOP conspirators who are ignoring the obvious fraud and criminal behavior. I still await one person to post a response to their letter or email to any of the above demanding the prosecution of Ms. Way or others.
But, lets be honest for a moment, you know it is all crap. You know Judge Bridges was not part of a great conspiracy and gave you every chance to prove your case, and you had nothing. NOTHING!!!
I know for some of you it hurts. I know for others, like Deborah, you have to double up your tin foil hats. But the facts are the facts, and the facts are clear. Yes, there were mistakes in the election (not just limited to King County by the way), but these mistakes were not done to help or hurt anyone.
So, until one of you gets the guts to start protesting in front of U.S. Attorney's office, or the Attorney General's office, or the Seattle City Attorney's office, I'll assume that this is all propoganda, and I'll post the truth.
Alphabetsoup: Let me save you a little time:
"JDB is a big idiot!!! Of course the US Attorney and the AG's are all part of it. There were crimes and fraud and I think Ron Sims personally killed some people just so he could fill out their ballots for Christine Gregoire! Its all true. I have the facts right here. They are broadcast to me by my cat every morning, and Mr. Fluffy has never been wrong. Well, he was the one time when he told me that there were weapons of mass distruction in Iraq, but other than that, he has been perfect!"
On the other hand, that is way to witty and intelligent for you, so go ahead and post your insult. What would this board be without your drivel? And, goodness knows, we can't really expect logic from you and your fellow wingnuts all of the sudden. So, if all you have are insults, you might as well stay with them.
Posted by: JDB on June 30, 2005 11:19 AMNow, can you truly look at yourself in the mirror and say this with a straight face? You can count those mistakes, and compare them with the vote margins, and the facts that came out about the case (aside from the ruling itself, which you seem to be spinning subtly) and truly say that those mistakes "were not done" to help or hurt anyone?
Those mistakes didn't "help" anybody? they didn't "hurt" anybody?
Also, your use of the passive voice here seems to pass the blame on to...to...nobody, as if the mistakes just happened by themselves. Who made those mistakes, JDB? Are they going to stop making them? Are mail-in ballots going to fix them next time around?
The point is, JDB, mistakes of that magnitude damage the entire voting process and the voter's trust in their government. It seems to be that you don't mind the magnitude of mistakes made...is that because they favored the party you like?
Posted by: pseudotsuga on June 30, 2005 11:47 AMWhere in the State Constitution or the RCW's does it say that we are a voter intent state? Politician's running for reelection and some canvassing boards may make those statements, but the written laws do not yet back that up.
Posted by: SouthernRoots on June 30, 2005 11:54 AMInteresting. I asked a simple question, and you didn't bother to answer. Is a violation of a WAC a criminal action? Yes or no? Is a violation of a WAC against the law? Is something that is against the law illegal, or a criminal action?
"no one, repeat, no one, has made any claims that the decisions on voting intent were done improperly"
How old were you when your brain was removed? It's a secret ballot, Einstien. There's no possible way for a voter to tell if a decision on his or her intent was done properly. If I made a scratch mark through the 'Dino Rossi' oval, exactly how would I find out if King County counted that as a vote or not? There can't be any charges of improperly devining voter intent because no voter can find out how their intent was reflected by King County. But that doesn't mean it's not an improper practice.
"Yes, there were mistakes in the election (not just limited to King County by the way), but these mistakes were not done to help or hurt anyone."
Drunk drivers who kill people don't mean to hurt them. People talking on their cell phones while driving don't intend to cause traffic accidents. You're mixing up INTENT with EFFECT, JDB. Just because the people making the mistakes didn't INTEND to help or hurt anyone doesn't mean that the EFFECT of those mistakes didn't help nor hurt anyone. How limited is your ability to process logic? Oops, I didn't INTEND to call you stupid - did I have that EFFECT? See how easy it is to understand?
Posted by: Larry on June 30, 2005 12:21 PMWell, those politicians would include Dino Rossi, who helped pass RCW 29A.60.021, along with other secitons of the RCWs that include gems like this:
"Any abbreviation used to designate office, position, or political party shall be accepted if the canvassing board can determine, to their satisfaction, the voter's intent."
Cf. The entire Florida debate.
Danny, babe, if you want an "intelectually honest opinion" shouldn't you start by providing one yourself? Other than propaganda and paranoia, do you have a reason why all the GOP attorneys that have jurisdiction are not investigating? Could it be that they saw the election contest and saw that there was absolutely no evidence of fraud or any other criminal behavior?
Doug:
First of all, I totally agree with your statement that "mistakes of that magnitude damage the entire voting process and the voter's trust in their government." Most logical thing I've seen in this thread.
But who is doing the spinning? Judge Bridges made it clear that there was no evidence that anyone acted to push the election in one way or another. I have no idea who the mistakes helped or hurt, although I have a nagging suspicion that in the end, they were more helpful to Rossi, otherwise you would have seen a stronger case.
If we get rid of the cried of burn the witch that ss minnow and others on this board like for propaganda points, and move to working on getting King County Elections and others working better, you have my full support. It is impossible to have an error free system, but it is clear that we can have a much better system. I will be very interested in seeing how the upcoming election plays out; if they muck this up, I'll joint the rest with the torches storming the KCE offices.
Posted by: JDB on June 30, 2005 12:21 PMThere are other threads on this, but sure, if you need an answer.
It depends on the WAC that is violated, and how that violation takes place. That being said, violations of WACs are not Federal crimes (please see the header of this thread), which is why I ignored you the first time. Second, as I have said on all these burn the witch threads, please, if you really believe there were any criminal activities, petition the Republican U.S. Attorney, Attorney General of the State of Washington, or King County Prosecutor. As I said, I keep waiting for someone to post a response from any of them. So far, none. Don't you have the courage of your convictions?
As to voter intent, there is an open process on that, with Republicans involved, and none have alledged any problems with the results. I could post long rants on how the space aliens used their mind control machines to force people to vote for Rossi, but then, like you, I would just be making things up. Really, doesn't it tell you something that the GOP was willing to spend four million on the election challange and didn't even try to bring up this issue?
I might have limited abilities to process logic, but at least I'm in touch with reality. Judge Bridges made it clear that there was no evidence of any attempt to push the election one way or another. What evidence we do have indicates that the illegal votes favored Rossi.
And you are right, you didn't intend to show you were an illogical wingnut, but your post certainly had that effect. That being said, I don't think you should be brought up on criminal charges, do you?
Posted by: JDB on June 30, 2005 12:34 PM"while the GOP has been able to show there were errors, no one has been able to show anything like a criminal action"
"violations of WACs are not Federal crimes"
"It depends on the WAC that is violated, and how that violation takes place."
"Yes, there were mistakes in the election (not just limited to King County by the way), but these mistakes were not done to help or hurt anyone."
"I have no idea who the mistakes helped or hurt"
Being inside your mind must be the biological equivalent of Cirque de Soliel. Lots of weirdness and contortions. But sometimes you do say something useful:
"I might have limited abilities to process logic"
Yes, JDB, you just might.
Of course you forgot this gem; "...the Republican King County Prosecuting Attorney won't touch this with a 20 foot poll.."
Now I'm wondering if that would be "an inquiry into public opinion conducted by interviewing a random sample of people" poll or "the part of the head between the ears poll"?
You crack me up sparky! Maybe you could tell us how Rove and his mignons are out to steal the country from honest, hard working folks such as yourself.
I really liked this one; "... if they muck this up, I'll joint the rest with the torches storming the KCE offices...."
Yea right!
I can't for the life of me decide if your truly an imbecile or just like to pretend; it's obvious that your a liar and a coward.
Go ahead and tell us another one!
Posted by: alphabet soup on June 30, 2005 01:56 PMI didn't really find the phrase anywhere else. Must be more codified in those pesky WACs that you appear to indicate are only "guidelines" and not legally binding.
My disagreement is that I believe that the best person to decide the voter's intent is the voter.
55,000 enhanced ballots means what? It means that someone else had the final say on how those voters voted. These ballots did not go to the canvassing board. How many people in an election division are authorized to determine voter intent?
All of this discussion of voter intent as it applies to a single ballot is moot however. When the collective voter intent is trampled by the legislature (I-601, Stadiums, R-51, etc.), then voter intent really only means what the legislature wants it mean at any given moment.
Posted by: SouthernRoots on June 30, 2005 02:52 PMOn another disgusting subject, this morning took my son to get his drivers permit. Ahead of me a seasoned citizen/person was transfering his drivers license from out of state. The helpful official also asked if he would like to register to vote? He was told, "No reason not to." At no time did the official mention or ask about eligibility. Not even a verbal "you need to be a US citizen, and not a felon." Nothing!! This is actually no suprise, it is my understanding that they are not allowed to ask, but it creeped me out to actually see it happen. While I watched, the official registered a Washington State Voter without any proof of residency, citizenship, or notification that felons are not elegible to vote until those rights have been lawfully restored. Ugh!
Posted by: dl on June 30, 2005 03:24 PMAh, you obviously didn't read the Evergreen Freedom Foundation's report on the last election. I know I told you before that you should take the time to read it.
A vote for Christine Rossi was counted as a vote for Chris Gregoire, (Chris is what she used on the ballots, probably to deceive all of the felons into believing that she is/was a male!
It would have been impossible for the Republicans to cite and argue all of the "errors" in the last election, because Judge Briges LIMITED them to 1 week......... If you read their original petition, I believe that you will find they discussed those illegally enhanced ballots, which by the way, King County was warned several years ago by the Secretary of State's Office NOT to do!
Have a Great Day and a Happy 4th!
Posted by: sgmmac on June 30, 2005 03:29 PMHappy 4th to you too. I leave tomorrow for fun in the sun.
If I remember correctly (and this is on memory only), the "Chris Rossi" vote also had the oval for Ms. Gregoire filled out.
As to the limits on the trial, that was because the GOP insisted on speed over all things else. They could have asked for a longer trial if they felt they needed one. As it is, the GOP had troubles filling up the time they had.
SouthernRoots:
Would you rather that we just throw out all votes that are not perfect? We could set the standard to that, but it would seem to cause more problems than you wish to solve.
All the enhancements were done with observers from the parties. If the GOP had any complaints, they could raise them (and then it goes to the board). If the GOP thought anything underhanded or improper had happened, they could have brought it up in their lawsuit. They didn't.
alphabet soup:
How am I a liar or a coward? At least I can make an arguement, something you are incapable of doing. Heck, I'm willing to walk into the lions den. You, you barely can put together an insult, more or less a logical arguement. There are good people here, but someone like you I just pitty. A broken clock is right more often than you, and shows more inteligence. Of course, based upon your great analytical skills, there is a good chance that you are a third grader with a learning disability, but even then, I would expect more.
Posted by: JDB on June 30, 2005 05:03 PMLooks like vote fraud, smells like vote fraud, tastes like vote fraud...
...NAH... couldn't be...
Igor
Posted by: igor on June 30, 2005 06:34 PMJDB, you cut me to the quick!
As a small reward, how about I treat you to a subscription to "Hooked on Phonics"?
We'll know you've cracked the cover when you can spell "arguement" ;'}
Posted by: alphabet soup on June 30, 2005 10:20 PMTo deny massive screw-ups and incompetence in favor of eye witness news is to focus on the tree and not the lost forest. We don't buy the diversionary argument. I contend one will never witness actual ballot stuffing nor fraud, short of an installed camera's record. That's not the issue. We learned "humors" and spirits did not make us sick--but "invisible" germs. The "no proof" argument is akin to the doubting medical field of medeival times. Any time a WA conservative wants answers on the last election, it's heresy. "Silence him!"
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on June 30, 2005 10:32 PMI can spell argument. I don't have a ton of time to spend on you, so I type quickly and get my thoughts down. If you can't handle it, well, that explains a lot, doesn't it.
And we'll know you have craked a book when you come up with an arguement. ;)
Hugs and kisses,
J
Posted by: JDB on June 30, 2005 10:35 PMYou don't rate an argument...your only purpose here is comic relief...
Posted by: alphabet soup on June 30, 2005 10:56 PMBased on the last election showing the capabilities of the King County staff, it would be impossible to make that staff less capable of not only running quality elections but actual governing at all. To call it a debacle would be minimising the mess that was made of the election. From what I saw on the web video of the proceedings the county covered itself in dung during that election and then said they did nothing wrong because you could not prove they did. Such little niceties as submitting known erroneous counts, leaving ballots in trays out in the open overnight before counting them, finding more and more ballots, even ballots just left in the container when the container was emptied to be counted, permitting provisional ballots to be stuffed into the general pile, felons, non-citizens, sending out the military ballots too late for the military to be able to vote for state-wide offices, using mail services on the last day that were the opposite direction from the airport from which the mailings had to go and doing it at midnight of the final day to get the mail out. the list just goes on and on and on. At what point do you think this county's government is capable of doing anything right as opposed to what is really going on?
Posted by: dick on July 3, 2005 10:40 AM