The Seattle Post-Intelligencer's editorial writers gird for battle to protect their ferry subsidies: "Gas Tax Repeal: The fight starts here". Among the P-I's unconvincing arguments in favor of the gas tax is this one:
[Business and orgainized labor] both argue that the higher tax will buy important transportation improvements throughout the state.Organized labor is of course less interested in "transportation improvements" than it is interested in increasing the number of dues paying Davis-Bacon workers. And "business" support? A quick peak at the list of donors to the shameless lying weasels at the "Keep Washington Rolling" campaign tells us who these businesses are. Most of them are beneficiaries of the massive corporate welfare program which is the 2005 transportation package, e.g. --
ACEC Washington, the state chapter of the American Council of Engineering Companies, AGC of Washington, Associated General Contractors, the Washington Asphalt Pavement Association, the Land Surveyors’ Association of Washington and Foster, Pepper and Shefelman, which would do the legal work on the construction contracts and bond financings.
And then there's Boeing, whose corporate motto is "only the little people pay taxes".
One corporate patron of the Keep Washington Rolling campaign whose in-kind contribution of editorial space is not listed at the PDC is the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, as its corporate motto is "only the little people comply with regulations on political speech"
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at July 11, 2005 09:17 PM | Email ThisThe little pinheads at the PI must be smarting after that. And, especially since they were counting on working is "communications managers" in the state's transportation boondoggle.
Posted by: BananaLand(aka Iguana) on July 11, 2005 09:53 PMThe state of Washington didn't give Boeing anything. Not one cent of taxpayer money goes to Boeing. Zero.
All the state did was agree to be a little bit less greedy in sticking their hands in Boeing's pocket.
It's like this... if I decide not to rob you at gunpoint... have I done you a favor? The state decided not to rob Boeing quite so much. Did they do them a favor? I don't think so.
Contrast this with say... taxpayer money going to those stupid stadiums in Seattle so that the hopeless pathetic losers of the world can watch millionaires play kids games. That's an outrage.
Posted by: Mark on July 11, 2005 09:54 PMHow much revenue is brought into the state by those people playing kids games? How much revenue is generated by those watching the games and eating at the surrounding establishments? What about the taxes for the big homes they buy? You don't like that? Are you also upset at the Benaroya Hall and those silly people playing instruments? How about those crazy folks that attend those? Or even better yet, the dumb folks that would go see a play at ACT or Intaman?
Boeing is Boeing and helping them is helping our State as it would be for Microsoft, Nintendo or Weyerhaeuser. They took off and have left us some. To lose the rest would be devistating, but this tax plan that they "support" is all wrong. We do need to make it easier for companies of all sorts to move their products, but our State government doesn't know how to do it. They are a disgrace and they play government like it was a kids game.
Posted by: PI, bye bye on July 11, 2005 10:04 PMThis is the same goofy argument that NASCAR made when they tried to tap the taxpayers a few months ago. These kinds of things DO NOT create wealth.
There are only 3 things that generate wealth: Manufacturing, mining and agriculture. If you're not doing one of those things, you aren't creating wealth. You may be providing secondary support services like retailing or professional services, but without the wealth generating activities going on, everything else dries up.
Also, on the PI death spiral... watch them make the case that they are a regional asset that's too valuable to lose and demand taxpayer subsidies. Direct transfer of money from taxpayers to them. Ya heard it here first...
Posted by: Mark on July 11, 2005 10:15 PMSo, to me, the message should be:
Legislators> Point your browser to www.getaclue.com
Posted by: MikeF on July 11, 2005 10:38 PMFor the people to support additional taxes, they need to be judiciously levied after it is proven that the spending increases (12% this year) can be cut or when Performance Audits can determine the waste that is so prevalent in this State. So vote for I-900 and I-912, and make the legislators deal with it. They'll likely become arrogant again next year try to pass more tax schemes. Hopefully, Performance Audits will feter out waste and wiser spending will be forced.
Posted by: KS on July 11, 2005 10:41 PMOh don't worry everyone, Gregoire has promised to make Olympia more accountable to the people.
I sure do feel better after her first few months in office!
She is Accounting her new massive tax raises
She is Accounting her new massive government raises
She is Accounting her California Emmission Regulation fees
She is acounting all her new regulations
She is definately keeping her promise of Accounting to the people!
Accounting and Accounting and Accounting
Posted by: GS on July 11, 2005 10:51 PMWrong! For years Boeing has flown airplanes into international airspace with corporate lawyers and closed deals over international waters, thereby avoiding sales tax and a substantial part of the federal income tax....so try again...
Posted by: Chuck on July 11, 2005 11:30 PMWhile I agree with you about the stadiums, turning away NASCAR was a travesty, they didnt want to get into the taxpayers pocket, simply a discount on future taxes (money that wont be there without NASCAR). The taxpayer putting in a stadium was a rippoff(or if the public actually paid for a racetrack)
Posted by: Chuck on July 11, 2005 11:37 PMLittle minds maybe.
Posted by: Jim on July 12, 2005 04:19 AMJim you ignorant slut.
Whever there is something you don't like, jump to conclusions and create a boogie-man.
Typical LEFTIST PINHEAD tactics.
Jim you ignorant slut!
Posted by: Mr. Cynical on July 12, 2005 04:34 AMJim, you neglected to mention Karl Rove, WMD, Kyoto, TANG...leaving anything else out??
Posted by: Danny on July 12, 2005 05:11 AMBoeing does NOT get "corporate welfare". They earn every penny they take in.
NASCAR would not "generate" any new revenue. Would simply siphon off entertainment money already being spent in area.
Posted by: Mark on July 12, 2005 05:15 AMin a post published by one Stefan Sharkansky in this very forum, the King County Builders were listed as SUPPORTERS of the gas tax, if not opponents of the initiative. They would be incorrigible fools not to support it looking at the numbers. My point was simply that the WSRP is the province of elitists, almost exclusively elitists in King County, 72% of the people in the rest of the state be damned.
If there is a mistake and the builders neither supported the gas tax legislation nor opposed the initiative, it's Mr. Sharkansky's mistake, not mine.
And don't be such naive plebs. If the Builders are not opposing the Initiative outright, you better believe they're working behind the scenes to defeat it. It's a gravy train for them. Think any of these weasels would have supported a sales tax hike.. hell no! They would have had to pay it. They pay the gas tax too, but not nearly as much.
I realize a lot of you infantile toadies take it very personally when I point out all the WSRP is really good for is urban sprawl, but it really is the honest truth. Ask the Fink(beiner).
Posted by: Jim on July 12, 2005 06:50 AMBrilliant. No one here would have thought of what you say unless you pointed it out for us.
However, because - unlike us - you are the very one who knows better, if the WSRP is the province of elitists, and all the WSRP is really good for is urban sprawl, tell us genius, what should we do? Move to Ireland?
Thanks again for the liberal view.
.
"Jim, you neglected to mention Karl Rove, WMD, Kyoto, TANG...leaving anything else out??"
Yes, you forgot Hilary's "Vast right wing conspiracy". It HAS to be part of this!
Posted by: stevenantony on July 12, 2005 07:50 AMI do think that the M's needed to spend more money on the stadium and I'm not supporting the Sonics need to try and upgrade the Key since they just did that, but I do see the benefit both financially and quality of life that having sports teams in this city...as well as the arts, zoo/aquarium and parks.
Posted by: PI, bye bye on July 12, 2005 08:20 AMWhile citizens of Washington State do have the right under the state constitution to use the initiative and referenda process to repeal actions of the Legislature, this doesn't make repeal of the increase in the gas tax good public policy.
The fact is that increasing populations and increasing miles driven on our roadways has repercussions for our infrastructure. Our roads, bridges and highways are falling apart. We need to obtain additional revenue to fix these problems.
I have yet to hear a responsible suggestion from the anti-gas tax crowd as to how we should pay for these needed repairs other than the tired old arguments of reduce fraud, use existing resources more efficiently, blah blah blah.
The Governor's Blue Ribbion Commission on Transportation (which consisted of a lot of people smarter than you or I) determined that WSDOT does a good job with the money alloted, but that it needs additional revenue simply to keep pace with maintenance requirements.
Vote NO on I-912.
Posted by: Doug Vavrick on July 12, 2005 08:27 AMBoeing's income is taxed from worldwide operations.
No one pays sales tax if exported from the state. If Alaska Airlines takes delivery of a 737 for use in WA (corp headquarters) it would pay the sales taxed owed. Where the contract is signed does not matter. If SouthWest takes delivery in WA it would not pay the tax as SW is a TX company (I think) and would owe TX sales tax. It is the same for you - if you go to OR to buy a car (anything really, but big ticket items are of more interest to tax collectors) you will pay WA sales tax. The fact that the purchase contract was signed in OR makes no difference.
And one way or another Boeing does NOT pay sales tax on items for resale, which includes all the aircraft. So Boeing making out in this scenario just doesn't work. These sound like rumors started to make the 'evil' corporation sentiment stronger.
Posted by: fred on July 12, 2005 08:29 AMThe state is getting all the extra revenue from the "increasing populations and increasing miles driven on our roadways". They are buying more gas which generated more taxes. With all the complaints about gas guzzelers becoming more popular, that also generates more taxes. In other words tax revenue goes up with the amount of use - where has that money gone? Where has the current tax money gone? - ferries, HOV lanes, bus lanes, public transportation, studies, sales tax. Roads belongs somewhere in that list, but has low priority.
Posted by: fred on July 12, 2005 08:36 AMSorry Fred, but that isnt the way it works with commercial aircraft, the state has nothing to do with commercial airplanes whatsoever. Airplanes dont have "titles". The commercial aircraft industry is controlled by the federal government and the FAA, the state doesnt even tax the fuel or gas that goes in them.. As a matter of fact the state doesnt even tax the common "Av Gas" that fuels light planes like Cessnas (and racecars).
If an airplane is purchased IN any state then sales tax is due, if however it is an international (over international waters} sale, the only thing the state gets in taxes is the (buisiness killing) inventory tax and that is only if the plane happens to be in the state during that time. You dont even pay sales tax on airplane tickets.
How's this for a reasonable suggestion:
Come up with a detailed plan first. Then come to the taxpayers with a specific propaosal for fully funding that plan and let them decide whether they want it or not.
That makes a whole lot more sense than telling us that there's a "emergency" and the only way to fix it is to collect a huge pile of money to throw at the problem.
Take the 520 bridge for example. There are two proposals currently being looked at that range from approx. $1.5 billion to $2.4 billion, yet the new gas tax only has $500 million set aside for 520. Why not pick one of the plans, figure out a way pay for it completely, and then, if that plan includes new taxes, let the voters decide if they want to approve it or not?
Posted by: KenB on July 12, 2005 09:13 AMBoeing got the same breaks that NASCAR was asking for when they put in the Fredrickson site as well as the Spokane site (now Triumph industries). And yes, NASCAR would definitly brought in more money. Datona Motor Speedway (NASCAR) brings in people (and their money) from all over the United States, as would a track in Washington. Anyone that cannot see this is in his own world. Boeing even had special sessions of the legislature on their behalf. Dont get me wrong, I have no axe to grind against Boeing (exept leaving the state) but Boeing gets as much state and federal corporate welfare as anyone else (exept a few ball teams that get more).
Posted by: Chuck on July 12, 2005 09:20 AMAs I am not sure what exceptions there are for aircraft I stated "any sales tax owed". They could just as easily go to OR without having to fly into international airspace. And it is still not Boeing avoiding the tax but the purchasing company, so again it is not Boeing avoiding the sales tax. I find it hard to believe that any state allows the type of loophole on where the contract is signed. It isn't true for personal purchases.
Posted by: fred on July 12, 2005 09:27 AMI will buy that!
When those representatives aren't up to speed, we have this little hammer thingee called the initiative process. That is, until all those "smart" elites succeed in abolishing our initiative powers for our "own good" (and subsidizing the PI for the vast public good that it does).
Message incoming this fall. Read it and weep.
Posted by: Shaun on July 12, 2005 11:42 AMWe recognize that you would like to reshape the world to fit your image of it but alas, there isn't enough Zoo-doo to accomplish that ;'{
Posted by: alphabet soup on July 12, 2005 12:26 PMat one time the Master Builders Association of King and Snohomish Counties was very much opposed to the initiative repealing the gas tax. That is a fact.
I know this because I commented on Stefan's 'shameless weasels' post at the time, I went back and checked.
Evidently they thought the better of it and changed their minds, they're no longer listed on the anti-initiative site as supporters.
That doesn't make them any less weasily, just pragmatic.
Posted by: Jim on July 12, 2005 04:22 PMHave you asked the MBA what their official stance is? How do you know?
Oh yea, you learned everything you know by talking....
To quote Shania Twain---
"That don't impress me much"!
Citizens MUST have the ability to put a fence around the size of government. They WILL vote to send the message that the highest Gas Tax in the country by nearly 25% is too much.
They will send a message demanding better accountability for prior dollars spent and current dollars collected.
Doug---
So how do YOU feel about the $60 million Pt. Angeles Hood Canal Graving Yard site on a former Indian Village debacle??? Don't you think someone should be FIRED for a $60 million waste of precious tax dollars? Where is the accountability Doug?? And why should contractor's be forced to pay prevailing wage IF THIS HIGHWAY WORK IS AN EMERGENCY????? Answer that please.
I brought up my place of employment on a previous thread simply because it was relevent to that thread about the First Amendment and the Right of Free Speech and Freedom of the Press and the fact that I know more about the laws as they pertain to the broadcast industry since I've worked in it my entire adult life and you haven't. It is the only time I have brought it up on a public thread. I would appreciate it if you didn't point out my employer in every other thread where you respond to me.
It is in incredibly poor taste, irrelevent to the current subject matter, and though unlikely as I have nothing to do with on-air content, could potentially get me in trouble as my employer really does make every attempt to be fair and non-partison as humanly possible in their news coverage, and the partison nature of my posts here has the potential to create the appearence of otherwise when others constantly point out I work for them. There is a reason I use my personal business email and not my station email.
Please get a @#&$% clue you arrogant, self-rightious, condiscending jerk and knock it off!
Posted by: Mike H on July 12, 2005 06:52 PMDo tribes get a pass? Non-tribal graves would have been respectfully unearthed and removed with dignity--the work proceeding after reverent ceremonies. Tribal graves somehow stop time and tide. Why? How about a non-Christian gravesite? Muslim? Bhuddist?
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on July 12, 2005 08:46 PMIf you have children to protect, never let child molesters know your home address.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on July 12, 2005 09:58 PM