I now have documentation from King County and the Secretary of State proving what has been suspected for months but which state and county officials have insistently denied all along -- King County did NOT mail all of the required military and overseas ballots by the Oct. 8th deadline. Dozens if not hundreds of King County military ballots that should have gone out on the 8th were sent out late. Over 5,000 non-military ballots covered by the UOCAVA guidelines (overseas citizens, possibly military dependents) were sent out at least 4 days late and hundreds of others appear to have been sent more than 4 days late.
I contacted both the Secretary of State's office and King County Records and Elections yesterday to give them an opportunity to respond to my findings. The Secretary of State's office responded today with evidence indicating that King County misled them last October. King County did not dispute my findings.
Exhaustive detail in the extended entry --
Background --
The Seattle Times reported in January that "Feds threatened suit over military ballots".
Less than a month before the November election, the U.S. Department of Justice threatened to sue Washington state because it was moving too slowly in mailing military ballots overseas.At that point Washington was the only state that hadn't mailed its overseas ballots.
State Elections Director Nick Handy sent this letter to the DoJ on October 8th.
You have requested our assurance that all [overseas and military] ballots will be mailed no later than todayHe didn't specifically tell the DoJ directly that all counties will have all such ballots in the mail that day. But the Secretary of State website has a press release dated Oct. 8th
...
our office has consulted with election officials in all 39 Washington counties regarding this matter. Based upon that consultation I can represent that all counties will have ballots in the mail today to overseas and military voters
Secretary of State Sam Reed announced today that ballots for all overseas, Washington voters participating in the November election are in the mail.I asked Nick Handy yesterday if he would let me know what information King County provided him as the basis for that representation. He forwarded me this email to go along with this spreadsheet (which I converted to PDF). The punchline: somebody from King County Elections (perhaps Bill Huennekens) told the SoS office that KC sent out all of its 10,564 UOCAVA ballots that it knew about at the time on Oct. 8th. Problem is, other King County records contradict that claim. Indeed, those records indicate that more than half of the UOCAVA ballots were sent out on Oct. 12th or later.
I earlier posted this King County mail log, which was obtained through a public records request by Bob Edelman with the Evergreen Freedom Foundation. It shows that 624 "submarine" ballots were delivered to PSI Oct. 1 - 6, 3,967 military and overseas ballots were delivered to PSI on Oct. 7 and 8, and 5,478 "RS" (non-military UOCAVA) ballots were delivered to PSI on Oct. 12. Note that "delivered to PSI" is not the same as mailed. PSI is a contract mail processor that did final preparation on the ballots for mailing. No documents have yet been released that show when PSI actually delivered the ballots to the USPS. Those 5,478 that were processed on the 12th are apparently among the 10,000+ that were supposed to have been mailed on the 8th.
We also have some more bits of information from other records requests. This letter from King County to Bob Edelman and this spreadsheet show the number of each type of relevant ballot category that should have been pulled from the voter registration database prior to the cut-off date of October 2nd in order to have been mailed on October 8th.
453 of the RM (military) ballots were not pulled by October 2nd. It's possible that in some of these cases the voter had not yet notified the elections office of a change to military status. But its not likely to be the case for all of them. The EFF received a spreadsheet listing all of their public voter information. I don't want to post all of those name and addresses on the web, but the data shows that 87 had no changes to their registration record after October 1. It's not clear why these or the other 370 or so voter records were not pulled from the registration database in time for the Oct. 2 cut-off point.
Furthermore, I extracted this spreadsheet from the absentee ballot file I received last week. It shows the number of the various categories of voter records that had been pulled from the registration database by date. The numbers are consistent with King County's numbers in its spreadsheet. But I went into more detail and looked at mailing addresses and voters from other categories that had overseas mailing addresses. There were 10,889 voters from explicit UOCAVA categories RM,RS,S and SUBMA that were pulled from the registration database on or before Oct. 2nd. In addition, there were another 502 voters from general categories with overseas mailing addresses (total of 11,391). Nevertheless, only 4,591 such ballots were delivered to PSI on or before Oct. 8th. and another 5,478 delivered on Oct. 12th (total of 10,069), for a shortfall of 1,322.
And there is still the question of why the 453 military and 5,000+ or so total other UOCAVA ballots were not pulled from the voter registration database by Oct. 2nd and how long it took PSI to deliver the ballots to the post office.
In summary: There's the proof that King County didn't even come close to mailing all of its required military and overseas ballots by the deadline. Nevertheless, for the last 10 months Dean Logan and his team have been misleading the Secretary of State, the Department of Justice and the general public.
N.B.: Some of the more delirious moonbat bloggers (e.g. this one and this one) will undoubtedly point to this old Seattle Times article as "proof" that King County's military and overseas ballots did go out on time. The Times article appears to have been based on the same mail log that I looked at. But the Times apparently didn't interpret the mail log in the context of all of the other documents that I reviewed. The Times prematurely gave Dean Logan the benefit of the doubt in this matter and they were wrong.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at August 04, 2005 03:55 PM | Email ThisI was going to say the same thing when I came in. You beat me to it.
Anyway, whats the use?
Posted by: rolling eyes on August 4, 2005 04:59 PMalaric
Posted by: alaric on August 4, 2005 05:11 PMNo, because it would appear politcally motivated. And we could'nt have that now could we?
Posted by: rolling eyes on August 4, 2005 05:56 PMThey lied about this one, so why should anyone believe anything that KC elections or Ron Sims says about anything?
GreGore should be ashamed of herself. She is in office only because men and women fighting overseas were not delivered ballots from the only county that actually voted to have her in office.
She really ought to step down and resign. It's best for the state.
She does care about the state, doesn't she?
Posted by: BananaLand(aka Iguana) on August 4, 2005 05:57 PMSent an email to the DOJ and John McKay.
Posted by: Norm on August 4, 2005 05:58 PMInteresting that NOW the information gets released.
The People's Republic of King County has "installed"
their Queen and we have to live with it for 3 1/2 years!
What's going to happen now? Not a Damn thing.
Posted by: Bruce Kaye on August 4, 2005 06:26 PMOk. Then I won't tell fire_one to go blow it out his a**, like I was going to.
Posted by: rolling eyes on August 4, 2005 06:44 PMAnd if you really do come up with a decent candidate who has some good ideas, I will in fact vote for him (or her).
Posted by: fire_one on August 4, 2005 06:45 PMLook Here: http://www.free republic.com/focus/f-news/1457126/posts
"his office conducted exhaustive tests on the Diebold TSx, discovered that it had a 10% error rate"
Now - back to topic -- looking in the extended post - at the third quote re Sam R.:
"Secretary of State Sam Reed announced today that ballots for all overseas, Washington voters participating in the November election are in the mail."
I draw the readers attention to the words: "participating in the November election" -- does this mean that the people whose ballots had not yet been mailed - would most likely not be 'participating' - smooth one there Sam --
Posted by: Bill on August 4, 2005 07:17 PMYou have it wrong. The incompentence of the current group appears to be instrumental in preventing "our guy" from being elected. Our response is and MUST BE to resolve the problems BEFORE the next election so that there will be a more LIKELY chance that "our guy" will be fairly elected. I find it very disconcerting that anyone would be telling citizens to effectively MYOB and forget about the errors and falsified reports filed by the party in charge. Government is under OUR authority and answers to US, not the other way around.
I also find it difficult to reconcile your previous assertion that you are ex military while you take to task those who are exposing the failure of King County Elections to comply with the law and mail military ballots out on time and then lie about that failure. It bothers you that Stefan is trying to expose the errors, but it does not bother you that active military were unable to vote in this election?
This sounds very much to me like you are pressing us to "move on" because "your gal" won and that is all that really matters.
Posted by: Eyago on August 4, 2005 07:20 PMAs for fire_one, comparing this election to the one in Florida is like comparing apples to oranges. The situation in Florida was not the same as it was here and anyone who thinks so needs to start breathing fresh air. Plus for all you Bush Stole Florida fans, Al Gore would have been President if he had carried his home state, Tennessee. Even Mondale was at least able to carry his home state.
The media, Ron Sims, and Gregoire want this whole debacle to just go away instead of fixing the problems. They have come up with more excuses that you can shake a stick at for not having everyone reregister to vote. What we are concerned about here on this blog is making sure such a travesty never happens again. And that means we keep reminding King County and Olympia what the problems are and that we want something done about it.
Of course the DOJ will not look into this, why? because Republicans are pussies and always take the high road.
Posted by: mikey on August 4, 2005 07:54 PMThat said, I think it is glaringly apparent that we cannot depend on KC, the Sims "independent" commission, the SOS (read POS), the State AG, or the feds to rectify this.
So it is up to us. I have said clearly in previous posts that I do not advocate violence for its own sake. (I am sure that liberal pukes like Fire_One will still quote me out of context because they don't know how to read complete sentences or spell correctly.)
But the anger that has been aroused in legally-voting Washingtonians against the bastard leadership and the corrupt system that installed them is reaching critical mass. Anger that is channelled towards effecting positive change is a good thing. But when those efforts are thwarted by leaders at the state and federal level who not only misuse their authority to do so, but also laugh at honest citizens in the process, the people are going to turn to other more assertive means.
So far we have used the initiative process. But I really don't think that this will last. They have already ignored our will by overriding the supermajority vote requirement for tax hikes. The Democrats will abolish that recourse, and the jackassess in elephant suits will help them- you just watch. And what then?
History provides countless examples of what happens next. When the will of the people is trampled underfoot, the people revolt. The same conditions that led to the American Revolution are apparent in Washington State today- most notably unfair legislation and taxation without representation.
The people of this state have demonstrated admirable restraint so far. But the Democrats historically aren't smart enough to know when to quit, and there will come a point where they- not we- will light this firecracker, and the government as it now exists will be served a steaming cup of ass-whuppin'.
Posted by: ERNurse on August 4, 2005 07:59 PMSemper Fi
MikeF
Good night.
Posted by: fire_one on August 4, 2005 08:15 PMAre you sure? I live in Thurston County - Lacey. I have a good friend (Army buddy who is retired, as I am) working as a contractor in Iraq.
He got his ballot over there, filled it out and mailed it back. He was NOT credited with voting in the Thurston County database that Stefan got after the election...........
The Thurston County Commissioners are three democrats who recently voted for us to have all mail voting in our county. Our auditor, Kim Wyman said it cost more for the polls. Interesting that Pierce County came to the opposite conclusion, that all mail voting costs are higher.
Posted by: sgmmac on August 4, 2005 08:19 PMI will NOT stand for a some BS turn around team, or any more demotions. Dean Logan and Bill Hunnekens lied to the SOS, the DOJ, the military, the press, and the public they work for.
Blatant bold faced LIES!!!!
ENOUGH... I feel like I am taking crazy pills when I see these two clowns still have jobs!
I just emailed all of our council members to not only fire Dean Logan and Hunnekens tomorrow, but to vote or put it to a vote of the people to make King County auditor an elected position.
Please join my email campaign to get these LIARS out of a positions that require the utmost in honesty, transparency, and integrity. And don't forget to include Sims office in the email.
OK, at the risk of being flamed and never welcomed to post again, I am going to come out of the progressive closet here and admit that I am a Democrat. Yes, I am.
I always read Stefan's election reform threads, and I post comments fairly frequently to them, because this debate isn't really about who "won", at this point, anymore. With the closeness of the race and the colossal nature of the screw-ups in King County, it was not possible to tell who won, and so essentially Judge Bridges used the "musical chairs" rule to determine the outcome - the person in the Governor's Mansion when the litigation music stopped was allowed to keep her seat.
There was no definitive win for Gregoire and the D's, any more than there was a definitive loss for Rossi and the GOP, no matter how much Paul Berendt or David Goldstein bloviates about it for our side. There was simply a very close race, and a really big mess, and a need to get on with someone picked to govern.
But getting on with the business of governing doesn't mean forgetting about what caused the mess in the first place. They are two seperate issues that our progressive friends are trying to conflate, albeit with erroneous logic.
As you accurately state (to paraphrase), one term in office for any one politician is going to make little difference in the long run. Having Chris Gregoire as governor isn't going to kill the members of the GOP, any more than we would have been laid low by four short years of Rossi.
Our government was designed to move slowly and deliberately so to be impervious to whatever random idiots here and there might actually take office, with the assumption that the idiots will be few, and the vast majority of officeholders will be well-chosen by we, the people, and well-suited for their positions, regardless of from which party they spring.
And this is why the errors and cover-ups by King County Elections in 2004 should matter to us Democrats, even though our gal ultimately took office: Who is to say that the results will be accurate next time? Who can guarantee that next time it won't be the Dems that are the victims of mistakes and heaven knows what else? Karma's a bitch, you know.
Random elected idiots our system can stand, but the ongoing disenfranchisement of the voters of the 12th largest county in the nation (and by extension, disenfranchisement of the voters of the entire state of Washington) cannot be tolerated by those who truly believe in our democratic system of government.
It is less important who specifically serves as Governor for one term than it is to assure voters that their votes are counted fairly and accurately, that their election officials are honest and helpful, and that their officeholders are truly the choices of the people.
I admire Stefan for keeping this issue alive until we know that the KC election office is righted. We need to know that we have been lied to for ten months, by public officials that have set a world record for the number of times they uttered the word "transparency" in the same time frame.
As one Democrat to another, fire_one, this IS important, and nobody should "get over" or "move on" until we are fully satisfied that the problems in King County have been corrected and our confidence is restored.
I'm not there yet. In all honesty, are you?
Maybe if the Dems would stop stealing election the lawsuits would stop. Ever think of that?
Posted by: rolling eyes on August 4, 2005 08:41 PMI'm not a Dem or a Rep (but hate the Dems in this state) and it just bugs the hell out of me that anyone from either of the major parties would treat something as important as our election process with so little respect.
Even worse is that idea that anyone would be so rightous as to think that they should win at any cost. That's pretty much the way I see Gregoire - she thought she won it well before the election simply because in her own judgement, she deserved it.
Sorry, but that's not a good enough reason for me and would be for a Republican either.
Posted by: BananaLand(aka Iguana) on August 4, 2005 08:55 PMRon Sims, Dean Logan, and their task forces and tiger teams.
Posted by: RookieRick on August 4, 2005 09:07 PMI said it last week and I will say it again "Draft Stefan to turn around the elections division" or make it a voter appointed position and elect him into the job. He does have to promise to keep SP going in the style we are accustomed to. He has been doing both the past eight moths are so anyway.
Posted by: 4pawz on August 4, 2005 09:25 PMWhy should King County Elections and Ron Sims be allowed to get away with this, without Federal investigation of the 3rd most corrupt voter area in the US ? It really makes NO SENSE ! I hope the a bigger light shines on this thing. Ron Sims and the corrupt ruling Socialist elite of Seattle/King County are resistant to change. I have zero trust in these people - they will not yield unless they either lose in the election or get dragged off in handcuffs.
Why should anyplace but Seattle have to put up with this kind of rubbish ?
Posted by: KS on August 4, 2005 09:26 PMI'd like to know what the Judge thinks now.....
Better yet....I'd like to know what the Feds (DOJ)think about this revelation!
Posted by: Deborah on August 4, 2005 09:52 PMWe can't conclude that more than 2,000 received their ballots too late, but it does seem suspicious, considering that these are people who requested ballots. If the number were 500, or maybe even 1,000, then it wouldn't bother me, especially since they also received 1,342 federal write-in ballots.
Not sure whether there are public records that show who requested these ballots and who actually voted with them, but it might be interesting to try to contact some of those who requested them, but didn't vote.
Posted by: Jim Miller on August 4, 2005 11:13 PMAnd I'm sorry, but Bill Huennekens cannot give a straight answer to anything. That's just the way it is. He does not belong there, and Dean Logan doesn't either. We deserve A LOT BETTER for all our thousands of property tax dollars that prop up this sorry county. Enough!
Thanks for a great report, Stefan. I don't think I've read it here, but the American Center for Voting Rights has listed its top five cities for vote fraud/voter intimidation. Seattle/King County was number three! ALL the cities were democrat strongholds. Figures! I hope we hear more on that, but old media are trying to bury that one. A few other national bloggers have talked about it, and Michael Medved featured it today on his show. We can't let that one die...
Posted by: Michele on August 4, 2005 11:20 PMI third 4pawz, and second Good Grief. I just hope their are enough like us to truly turn the tide of the festering blight that King County is rapidly becoming.
On a side note, I thought I would mention this interesting tidbit to everyone:
I work at a local truck stop/convience store in the industrial area of Seattle, and I have noticed something truly strange. Ever since all the tax increases went into effect and people are actually FEELING how they are affected, not ONE person who comes in will claim they voted for Princess. Really bizzarre since I work in the belly of the beast. Even people who would take the extremely liberal side on a debate with me are keeping mum about who they voted for. I guess it's true how quickly a liberal will turn into a conservative when their smokes and drinks are suddenly REALLY expensive. (I personally get a really big kick when people complain about the sharp increase in prices and I get to say to them with a straight face "But it's for the KIDS! Don't tell me you hate children!" Am I Evil? YES I AM!!)
Domo.
Posted by: Left Behind by the New Democratic Party on August 5, 2005 12:46 AMThis PSI company has been responsible for many questionable incidents and activities since the felons worked there! There never seems to be valid audit trails for their mistakes and Republican election observers are never invited to the facility to watch what they do!
How convenient for fraud and corruption!
Posted by: Deborah on August 5, 2005 12:51 AMThis gift just keeps on giving. You've got to admire Stefan's persistence. The man is like a pit bull!
1: "Just please no more lawsuits that I have to spend my tax money on..."
2: But wait! Fire_one is on the East Coast... isn't he? After all, the lib posted this...
"...and with that being said, it is late here on the East Coast."
Isn't that an interesting thing to go out of one's way to post? As with all products of liberal trolls, this smells fishy.
And Fire_one, having your absolution makes me feel SOOOOOO much better. Now I can breathe easier.
Posted by: ERNurse on August 5, 2005 06:08 AMNO ONE here is still trying to overturn the past election!! We're unhappy with the results, but we understand that the election is over. However, unless the citizens of Washington do something to fix what's wrong with the elections process, the results of future elections will be questionable. If you can't see that, then you haven't really been paying attention to what we are all saying here.
Posted by: KB on August 5, 2005 06:58 AMNow that we know this, they should have to count the 'late returned' ballots from our soldiers and THEN see who WON!
As for Sims (Slime) and Logan (Loball), I hear there is STILL room @ Club Gitmo!
Posted by: arky on August 5, 2005 07:01 AMAre you sure? I live in Thurston County - Lacey. I have a good friend (Army buddy who is retired, as I am) working as a contractor in Iraq.
He got his ballot over there, filled it out and mailed it back. He was NOT credited with voting in the Thurston County database that Stefan got after the election...........
The Thurston County Commissioners are three democrats who recently voted for us to have all mail voting in our county. Our auditor, Kim Wyman said it cost more for the polls. Interesting that Pierce County came to the opposite conclusion, that all mail voting costs are higher.
Posted by sgmmac at August 4, 2005 08:19 PM
And SGM, I gotta tell ya I think the system aint perfect. But it is what we have. We work with it (we improve it) we live with it. No system will ever be perfect. I think all the long drawn out lawsuits, etc really do more harm than good. Would it not have been better for Bush to have won Florida, won the re-count, and had that be the end of it? All the lawsuits do is cast a shadow on those (just like Bush) who are actually elected in an imperfect system.
As to illegal activities, you want me to believe that all the KC elections personnel conspired to break the law. And that a judge in Chelan was either incompetent or just too left leaning. Cmon, I find it hard to believe the vast left wing conspiracy theories. You had your election, and your day in court. I think now, maybe, it just might be, finally, over....
(and I want to say thanks to all the posters who remain calm and reasonable while posting...)
If votes were counted at a higher rate for ballots that were mailed on-time (vs. those that were mailed late), it would seem to be further evidence that some (perhaps many) voters were disenfranchised.
Just a thought.
Posted by: Dewey on August 5, 2005 07:29 AMJust like a crazy liberal, confused, lying, blind to the truth, and slippery. I can also tell you're a coward.
Posted by: RealMen on August 5, 2005 07:29 AMSomeone send an e-mail to Nick Handy and tell him he needs to send a "sympathetic" word of encouragement to Logan.
Those darn right-wing extremists are trying to exagerate the facts again!
Posted by: jaybo on August 5, 2005 07:44 AMPosted by: fire_one on August 5, 2005 07:44 AM
Stefan is going for real reform, you're doing nothing but spinning. Hell, Good Grief even gave ya an olive branch, and you still haven't addressed him or her.
The lawsuit was the correct form of action, and even though it was a losing lawsuit, it still shone the light on KCE's problems. THAT is more important. THAT is more relevant. THAT is what we are focusing on.
King County acknowledges (via paperwork) that they screwed up, you just don't wish to believe it, Fire.
Posted by: Sailor Republica on August 5, 2005 07:45 AMGoodGrief - Sorry I didn't notice your post, I went to bed. Yes, to answer your question, I "am there" I am satisfied that we did all we could. Yes I am ready to move on, but not about reforming the system. As a "systems" kind of guy, I am always interested in changing and improving the system. I don't like it when people are disenfranchised. What do you suggest?
Posted by: fire_one on August 5, 2005 07:52 AMAnd contrary to what some on this blog say, it would appear that many of you want to overturn this election, some even violently (though I don't really believe that.)
Posted by: fire_one on August 5, 2005 07:58 AMHe asks if anyone had testified under oath that the military ballots were all mailed out in time.
Hey, if you are in public service, you need to act truthfully at all times. You need to act like you are under oath at all times. The fact they may or may not have been is absolutely no excuse.
Sorry Newman, but your excuse just doesn't cut it. Oh and the definition of 'it' is ....
Posted by: swatter on August 5, 2005 08:03 AMSo, what you're saying is, Pres. Bush should have simply stepped aside and alowed the dems to take the election with that would only have counted heavy dem. counties. Does that acurately explain your position?
Posted by: Elias on August 5, 2005 08:13 AMwith a recount that would only have counted heavy dem. counties.
I was educated in the Ark. public ed. system
Posted by: Elias on August 5, 2005 08:17 AMWhy not come forward with all the information about the military ballots when it became an issue 6 months ago?
That would truly be the "open" and "transparent" approach...
Posted by: Joe on August 5, 2005 08:19 AMAnd with that, I really do have a job, so thank you all for the comments. For a guy that lives on the road, it is interesting to hear what you are thinking back home. I always love going home, you guys are lucky to get to live there every day. It is, without a doubt, the best state in the Union. To the REVOLUTIONAIRES, I say thanks for the laughs....
Posted by: fire_one on August 5, 2005 08:23 AMAre you actually comfortable with the way that Gregoire took office?
Improving elections..... ah,
I want the possibility for fraud eliminated. Must have a photo ID, proof of address, and citizenship to register. If registering to vote online or by mail, you must mail copies of your photo ID, proof of address and citizenship to the registrar. They must maintain the copies in a digital file along with your voter registration card. The state election office must validate your registration by cross checking your information with other county and state records. If you use a driver's license, they must check that state file, they should validate the address with property records, phone books, electric bills, etc.
I want ballot enhancement stopped - period! If you don't fill it out correctly and the machine counting rejects your ballot, they need to put it in an envelope with a letter to you explaining why it was NOT counted and how you can fix it.
I want an online database of all voters by county that the voter can access by name to find out if their vote has been received, processed and counted. Magical mystery ballots don't count. Each ballot in this state issued needs a serial number and that serial number must link to a name of a registered voter and it must be a valid serial number issued to count.
I want each and every ballot in this state tracked, from the time is is mailed/issued to you until it is counted. The software is already out there.
Thurston County is going to optical scan ballots - Why aren't we going to computer balloting........
Posted by: sgmmac on August 5, 2005 08:28 AMAll I recall is the constant pressure to 'fess up and they refused knowing it would spell the doom of another Democrat.
Drats, there I brought politics into it.
Posted by: swatter on August 5, 2005 08:57 AMUnfortunately, the people of the state don't have much recourse unless they can catch the person committing the act AND prove how that ballot was voted. Not a very likely scenario.
Systems and processes that allow these forms of fraud to be easily performed is a bad system.
Up to the point of meeting the constitutional requirement for a secret ballot, our systems and processes should track everything about a ballot.
From that system, we should easily be able to see any reconciliation report for any particular activity - such as military ballot mailing. Here we are 10 months after the election and we do not have a complete, concise report from OUR government on those ballots. Why not?
Our laws and procedures should close all loopholes that enable fraudulent voting - of any kind, from any source. They should produce an audit trail that implicitly shows compliance with the law and those audit trail reports should be readily available to the public.
The government should be falling all over itself proving to the PEOPLE that they are indeed taking our right to vote seriously and that they are making sure that illegal voting will not dilute and cancel out our franchise.
It is true, Judge Bridges did not give a ruling that pleased Rossi supporters. But he did say that ther were large problems in the elections process and it was the PEOPLE that had to fix these problems. This is the gist of what most people here are trying to do - get those problem fixed.
Posted by: SouthernRoots on August 5, 2005 09:08 AMDid you receive or see the report required by this act?
SEC. 102. STATE RESPONSIBILITIES
(c) REPORT ON NUMBER OF ABSENTEE BALLOTS TRANSMITTED AND RECEIVED. --Not later than 90 days after the date of each regularly scheduled general election for Federal office, each State and unit of local government which administered the election shall (through the State, in the case of a unit of local government) submit a report to the Election Administration Commission (established under the Help America Vote Act of 2002) on the combined number of absentee ballots transmitted to absent uniformed services voters and overseas voters for the election and the combined number of such ballots which were returned by such voters and cast in the election, and shall make such report available to the general public.
Posted by: SouthernRoots on August 5, 2005 10:08 AMThe more that's brought out about the lack of following the legal steps to a clean election, the more guilt the ones who want to maintain CG is legitimate have to endure. Guilt in knowing that they, in wanting to legitimize her, are part of the fraud, part of the cover-up.
TRUTH is a hard thing for these people to look at...it places them on the other side. So, if we just "move-on", I don't have to look at what happened as a part of what I helped to create. People who aren't afraid of the truth are usually guilt-free.
Posted by: Susu on August 5, 2005 10:16 AMI think it's time for us to stop saying things like, I sure hope doj gets involved or 'nothing will come of this, or 'wussy,republicans will take the high road & let em get away w/it' and MAKE something come of this.
The MSM gets away with non reporting, or minimally reporting this type of thing because the average joe doesn't know about it to begin with.
We Know more than most because of Stefan's good work, it is our duty to act like patriots and use that knowledge, to make something come of it. If Stefan can put in 1000's of hours and we can spend MANY Hours Reading about it, lets all spend a few hours on ACTION, And Lets ORGANIZE that action so that it is effective. If we come together, we can make the public know and cry foul about the lies, deceit, and Fraud that has occurred in KC. And Yes, that is a Capital F in Fraud. The R's can't be Wussies on account of the moral High Ground if the PEOPLE are crying out for investigation/Action. And the D's will be forced to action, so as not lose their power even in places like Seattle. WE Have the perfect timing now, KC being decried publicly/Nationally as the 3rd worst hotbed for voter fraud in the country, and catching KC elections in yet another public Lie. Lets not allow this opportunity to fade.
This is a rallying cry, lets discuss what we should and must do to make everyone know about these things and to MAKE reform happen.
Shall we ORGANIZE a Rally in Olympia or in front of kc elections, should we ORGANIZE a letter/email campaign, Should we start as much of a boycott of Seattle/KC as possible, Or should we even go so far as to gather thousands together to blockade Seattle voting locations with known problems, in the next election? What are your ideas?
With Stefan's Permission, Lets use Sound Politics as our Hub, to brainstorm ideas, and take action together. Maybe a central Post or forum where Ideas/Action plans can be discussed.
What do you think, lets start the brainstorming now.
Scott
Posted by: Scott O. on August 5, 2005 10:27 AMSo what do we call this, cherry picking before the election? If Mr. Fund writes another book, Washington will get its own chapter on election fraud. And unlike other states with election issues, nobody is investigating. Alot of Moonbats don't know what happened in Florida, and cannot get over what they think happened. But Florida investigated and corrected their problems...but oh no, not here in KC. Embarrassing time to be a Washatonian.
Is there any possibility to get an investigation by Dept. of Justice?
Posted by: dl on August 5, 2005 10:46 AMI am in. Now is the time, before another election, to insure an honest election.
I am not very good at this but here goes some idea:
1) We must speak as one, same ideas, same goals. We must turn this around for all voters, democrats, republicans, independents.
2) Make the problem public along side with the solutions. Point fingers, name names, show facts and records.
3) Get heavy-weight help, big names, radio talk shows, letters to the editor to all Washingtons newspapers, every day. Pound the message in, make it front page story.
4) Raise money for print ads, radio spots, street signs, hand outs, flyers.
5) Information, information, information...
6) Never give up. We are power in numbers, our power is in the noise we make. In that we will be harassed, called names, hassled. We must push on.
7)Identify our selves first, a name and cause. So that we are not labeled as something we are not.
I have many talents to offer: Graphic Artist, photographer, patriot, independent and angry voter.
It would be an honor to fight this fight. If we fight to win. All the way no nothing. We can all do something, anything you can do will get us to our goals. Honest elections.
What say you?
Posted by: Son of Liberty on August 5, 2005 10:49 AMThis is a very bad idea.
Posted by: ScottM on August 5, 2005 11:08 AMThis Marine mom is thankful to the Shark for staying on the trail.
(Feeling much better getting that rant out, thanx.)
I am with ya Son and Scott O.
Posted by: RealMen on August 5, 2005 11:24 AMcount me in.............
Posted by: 4pawz on August 5, 2005 11:26 AMI'm not sure how headlines like "REPUBLICAN ACTIVISTS BLOCK ACCESS TO POLL SITES" are going to aid the cuase of election reform, but I don't have the time to argue the likes of you into common sense and sanity.
So you go on believing that I'm a liberal. I'm sure it's not the first idiotic thing you've ever believed.
Posted by: ScottM on August 5, 2005 11:46 AMIn the American Revolution, small pockets of people stood tall and stopped the world power from over taxation and no representation. One by one they banded and fought for truth and freedom. It was hard, we almost lost several times; but we stuck it out and won.
We are Americans, we like to win, and we hate to be cheated. And we hate politicians who have forgotten who they work for. America is still the same, and it is worth a good fight to set it right again.
All you politicians and elected officials reading this, democrats, republicans, all of you, (we know you read this) you’re throwing lit matches on the gas. It will go off, and it won’t take many of us to explode. When things do start up we will remember your silence and indifference. With that you will be out of a job, and some of you will be in orange jump suits. If you want to help, than do it!
Please, everyone help out and do something. American freedom was won by the blood of the few, for the many. Washington is worth it. Can you help?
The hold up was that certain legislators from both sides of the aisle (no party's hands are completely clean on this one) did not want the primary moved, as moving the primary would cut in to the huge advantage that incumbents have in raising money over challengers.
But the leader of the charge to keep the primary in September, unlike what has been said over at the other blog, was NOT a republican.
It was Democratic Senator Ken Jacobsen, from the 46th district in North Seattle. He found a phrase in the top two primary initiative that thated that the primary could not be changed for two years after enactment of the top two, and claimed that prevented the legislature from changing the date until 2007. He used this fallacious argument to convince legislators that it was pointless to move the primary and effectively killed the legislation.
Posted by: Good Grief on August 5, 2005 12:22 PMThis is a very bad idea.
Posted by ScottM at August 5, 2005 11:08 AM
Noboby ever mention 'blockade Seattle voting locations' except you.
ScottM - again:
"REPUBLICAN ACTIVISTS BLOCK ACCESS TO POLL SITES"
It looks like Son of Liberty was right.
ScottM - you need a strong sedative dude!
But lets discuss this openly and without name calling, I for one want to hear ScottM's opinion, if Real trolls enter in, just ignore them. But let's be united against the real problem.
And Stefan what do you think, how shall we organize?
Posted by: Scott O. on August 5, 2005 12:37 PMSounds like, screams like, types like, crazy like, spells like...........lib.
I rest my case Your Honor.
Posted by: RealMen on August 5, 2005 12:40 PMScottM and RealMen, stop and help, if you will.
There can be no watching from the sidelines, either join in the struggle, or stay out of the way.
Perhaps you should cut back on the "sedatives."
Posted by: ScottM on August 5, 2005 01:06 PM(Emphasis added.)
If you had called for protests at various poll sites, I wouldn't have written a word.
However, since I've already posted, I will say that I think that a large protest at the Elections Office would probably be more effective than smaller protests at polling places. Also, any effort--even a symbolic one--at getting people not to vote at their local polling place will be spun by the Dems and media as an effort to get people not to vote at all. And in Seattle, it will be portrayed as an effort to suppress the minority and Democratic vote.
Posted by: ScottM on August 5, 2005 01:24 PMIt is the goal that we must keep our eye on. That of exposing how/corrupt, biased the k.c. elections dept has been all along, and how we as citizens must find a way to fix it...the law as judge bridges has said can't be relied upon, nor can we rely on the democratic officials to fix it. (nay, they don't even want it fixed, they want to break it even more, so that even more Illegal aliens, felons, dead people, double voters, can and will vote, and do it often, for their candidates) {that is their kind of "election reform"}
Stefan is the perfect example of how one man's efforts and patriotism can make a huge example and difference! Let's join with him in action to make an even larger difference. The wave has started, finally, the majority of Wa citizens know a bit about the corruption....lets push the wave higher so that it can not be ignored. Now is the perfect time! King county has been called the 3rd most corrupt elections dept in the country. Let's make sure Everyone knows that and it can be ignored no longer.
Scott O.
I have no attachment to any one idea, I only want us to discuss ideas, even those a bit radical to decide on the most effective actions to take to further our desire to make a true and fair democratic election process take place in WA. One that allows the voters to decide the candidate!
Not one that is decided by the ideology of those counting the votes.
-----------------------------------------
If an election is known to be corrupt enough, is it better to let it go on, or stop it until it can be held fairly???
"I want the possibility for fraud eliminated" - I agree with that, but don't think it is actually possible on a system that humans interact with.
"I want ballot enhancement stopped - period!" - Absolutely.
"I want an online database of all voters by county that the voter can access by name to find out if their vote has been received, processed and counted." - Not too sure about this one. It appears from recent history that any database can be a) accidentally corrupted or deleted or b) hacked.
"I want each and every ballot in this state tracked, from the time is is mailed/issued to you until it is counted." - This is do-able. In fact, isn't it supposed to done, sort of , already?
Anyway, some of us get together in Lacey when I am in town. We are all retired, one platoon sergeant, one SF, and one 1SG. They are Republicans (with a capitol R) and I am the lonely Dem. You are welcome to join us anytime. Stefan, if you would, please give my email addresss to sgmmac. Thanks.
Posted by: fire_one on August 5, 2005 01:39 PMIf you're seriously considering the possibility of stopping or postponing the election, give it up. The election's going to go on as scheduled. The first thing you have to do if you really want to make a change is distinguish between the possible and the impossible. Stopping the election is definitely in the latter category.
If the question was merely posed as an interesting hypothetical, then never mind.
Posted by: ScottM on August 5, 2005 02:01 PMMy email appears if you cruise your cursor over my name after Posted by......... I use the real address, lots don't!
Posted by: sgmmac on August 5, 2005 02:02 PMPretrial discovery is very broad, essentially anything that will lead to admissible evidence. As as general rule, a deponent must answer the question asked unless there is some privilege raised (e.g. attorney-client). Evidence of election law violations, even if not identified in the complaint, would be discoverable. I say this as an attorney with over 20 years of experience litigating cases, including election law issues.
Posted by: Newman on August 5, 2005 02:08 PMOf course, every one lies in a deposition, except me. I was always too afraid. And in court, too. If no one prosecutes, then why not lie?
Posted by: swatter on August 5, 2005 02:35 PMIn re: to my question:
"If an election is known to be corrupt enough, is it better to let it go on, or stop it until it can be held fairly???"
---------
it was 99% hypothetical, but to make a point, that if the hypothetical answer is to stop it, then the answer points to our doing everything we can. Even INCLUDING stopping it if we are able to, to enact the requisite reforms. In an interesting aside lets say the voters got upset enough to do the hypothetical 'blockade' to keep a precinct from being able to accept votes, I would think it possible that this MIGHT be enough to cause the state to have to do a re-vote. I don't know the law on this, and don't claim to, but the interesting thing is, at the least it might, as you mentioned, get both sides crying foul! Which in a way, could be the best thing possible as it would enact the very types of open discussion about the problems that we want.
The problem with lack of reform is no longer lack of knowledge about the problem (thanks to Stefan) But lack of acknowledgement and dispersal (media bias) which would lead to the proper public outcry, OR alternately, as I am calling for, the public outcry and ACTION! Making the media to no longer be able to ignore and gloss over it.
We have a clear case of media bias,
(As with Clinton, the media wanted to ignore the scandals and largely did, including the larger ones like whitewater, lincolngate, and the chinese incidents, etc etc etc, but once one caught the public interest (lewinsky) they couldn't gloss over it any more. With the current media bias, we must MAKE the media take attention, as in todays world the Media lead the people too strongly as to what they believe and what they believe to be important.
I invite anyone to tell me any idea is stupid, but tell why AND give us better ones, so that the cause can be furthered.
Posted by: Scott O. on August 5, 2005 02:35 PMMy two cents
Jim L
I don’t know why the Shark or someone who actually knows the law hasn’t stepped in to this conversation. Look…one thing the Reps have going for them is that the contrast between the Dems and Reps in the last election was so dramatic regarding fairness, honesty, and most importantly in this case, the rule of law.
Please understand that anything hindering access to a voting booth would put those causing the disturbance in a very bad light. Not just legally, but bringing up the specter of Jim Crow laws and the like, and providing more fodder for the Dem spin machine, gratis. That’s a step down the wrong road.
Everything done must be squeaky clean and above reproach.
You have what are essentially two competing worldviews of pragmatism…one firmly ensconced and committed to perpetuating the status quo, no matter what it takes. The other is one committed to the integrity, honesty, and fairness of elections. The two views are not in parallel. The side committed to the status quo is committed to keeping their people in office; while the other side can live with an election loss if it was not tainted. So they’re not the mirror image of the same thing. That’s why it’s not a strictly party-line distinction.
This drama cannot be played out in the media. The only way to effect real change is to either get in through elections of honest candidates or volunteering in the various places where that is possible, or through outside pressures in the form of letters, protests, guest columns in msm, getting legal investigations activated, lawsuits over FOI issues, and the like. Even getting the KC elections job as an elective one or an effective auditing function simply can’t be a slam-dunk without election changes. Add to that the fact that backbone and SOS Reed and politicians of his ilk appear to have nothing in common.
No matter how much you protest, the people/system that is in place that could effect change is committed to doing the opposite in preserving the status quo. The only way to end the “culture,” especially of KC, is to literally root it out through the police powers of the state and hopefully the feds. The feds having, of course, a stake in things at a minimum because of our service men/women.
The personnel responsible for the various frauds and broken laws simply need to not just lose jobs. They need to experience jail time and personal financial loss. Their tales of woe must begin to resonate with those remaining inside the system. And if that remnant feels pressured, then great. For them it’s either time to do what they’re paid for or move on.
It is not an exaggeration to say that we are watching a TV mini-series being played out before our eyes, a la “Walking Tall.” The problem is that the corruption, fraud, deceit, protagonists, and the “heavies” are all in place…sneering and dismissive hoi polloi toasting a win in battle in local watering holes while blind to the as yet undetermined end of the “war”…common citizens ignored by the press and public officials, yet ready to stand for what is right…but what is missing is the arrival of the cavalry in time for the “Hollywood ending.”
I’d call it “Walking Tall, the Commissars Held Accountable.” Alternately, it could be “Animal House Does Politics.”
There’s no point in re-grouting the tile when the very foundation is honeycombed with galleries of termite infestation.
Just had to say that :-)....
Posted by: Michele on August 5, 2005 05:54 PM Shows you what too many beers on Friday night will do to you... (not that that is a bad thing)
Good night.
Posted by: fire_one on August 5, 2005 07:54 PMPardon my suspicions. I got troll-happy. After reading further posts, I began to see some sense in what your are saying. That doesn't mean I agree completely, mind you- but if positive change is going to be accomplished, critical thinking is crucial.
As far as joining together to bring about positive change, count me in, guys, for what that is worth.
Posted by: ERNurse on August 6, 2005 02:36 AMI hate to pee on your hug-fest, but I gotta call Barbra Streisand on an obvious thread hijack.
fire_one, you're an idiot, but a good partisan. You did an admirable job of diverting the topic with bluff & bluster, and BS.
"Though some ballots may have been sent out a day or two late, it doesn't mean those soldiers didn't get to vote, or their vote wasn't counted."
BS! If anyone deserved to get their ballot on time, and to participate in the election, it was our guys in combat. That you would excuse it away so casually shows the indifference to servicemen that makes 'rats so despicable. Washington was 50th out of 50 states to complete their ballot mailing ("an election with an accuracy that was the envy of any bank"?!!). They intentially failed to meet a legal deadline (but dodged the bullet at paying the price).
Something that fire_one knows (but conveniently fails to acknowledge) is that the best was way to come between a Republican candidate and victory is to disenfranchise the military vote. Why should he care that they didn't get to participate? There are simple ways to eliminate this potential, but democrats have lost all credibility to address it.
The easiest, most effective, and efficient method to restore confidence in our ability to conduct an open and honest election is to replace the current regime. The band-aid approach to "election reform" offered up by the Legislature, Sam Reed, and Ron Sims demonstrates that they aren't serious about reforming anything (even their reputations).
If conservatives or republicans want to have a chance to win anything, they must vigorously oppose all-mail balloting. The successful transition to all-mail balloting will effectively cement the status quo and sideline contenders.
Most of the posters here are sincere and thoughtful - but not necessarily partisan - Be lulled into a false sense of camaraderie by trolls at your peril!
Posted by: alphabet soup on August 6, 2005 04:10 PMAs for ballot accounting. Those ballots need to be accounted for from the time printing is ordered through counting. How many and of what type were printed. What, where and how was the distribution of those blank ballots. How many absentee ballots were returned undeliverable. How many poll ballots were left over, unused. In the end, the books should all balance with how many were originally printed.
Secondly, in my opinion, our best chance of having a legal election is at the registration desk. Require proof of citizenship and residency and validate that residency by sending cards to the registration address requiring they be signed by the voter and returned to the auditors office, which will be matched to the voter signature onfile to validate the registration.
And of course a state-wide, voter registration database, of which all information that it is legal to release to the public be posted online, by county.
And we need antenna streamers or something as a logo for the cause. Orange streamers or something.
Posted by: Hanna on August 6, 2005 07:28 PMhttp://www.electionreforms.blogspot.com/
Posted by: Hanna on August 6, 2005 07:33 PMYes, what we need is radical change. The Libs have been pushing their brand of change in the streets and in the classrooms for forty years, with hardly a shot fired in resistance from conservatives. When are we going to pull our heads out and recognize that there has been a war on for two generations?
I believe that there are a number of Democrats who see the same need for change. What we need is to get everyone together and formulate a coherent plan of action.
What is the bottom line? REFORM. Everyone with half a brain agrees on that point. But what price are we willing to pay in order to achieve it? The Libs control the media, the school board, the unions, and the state and county government. They are waging unrestricted, no-holds-barred warfare against us and our kids. They will stop at nothing to gain and hold power. I don't know about you, but that cheeses me off.
But what galls me even more is that even after having the power of our votes ripped away from us, we still do nothing but talk. What the hell else has to happen to get us angry enough to start taking back the ground we lost? What more is there to lose? Does Comrade Cow have to declare martial law? How many more people does that rotten POS Sims have to intimidate or have arrested before we get our hearts into this?
People, we have talked this thing to death, and so far it appears that most of us still aren't willing to even cross the street to take Washington State and King County back from the thieving bastards who invaded it. Stefan and others have done marvelous work, but they can't do this for us, and none of us can win the day alone. I sure know I can't, and none of you can either. But we all have something to contribute to the effort so that, together, we can get it done. So let's build the network already!
If we really mean what we say, then we will be willing to put some time and effort into the cause. The Chinese have an expression for it: Gung Ho. It means WORK TOGETHER.
So let's start getting some ideas going. Maybe make a kind of roster of people who are really serious about doing this, in such a way as to keep it far from the prying eyes of Sims and his flying monkeys. (Come on- I know SOMEBODY out there knows how to make this happen.) Gather email addresses, areas of expertise, and levels of availability. Sure we can't devote huge portions of time when we have jobs and families. That is what the enemy is counting on: they use our sense of responsibility against us. But each of us can give an hour here, an hour there, some knowledge here, some knowledge there. We have to build with one hand and fight with the other. If a cause is just, true and righteous, then it is worth fighting for.
That may mean confronting the moonbats on their turf and pushing them our of our city, our county, and our state. And let's look at it: there are a hell of a lot more of us than there are of them. They just talk loud enough for a dozen of us. So are we going to let a bunch of loudmouth socialist chickensh*ts intimidate us, or are we going to finally summon up some intestinal fortitude and draw the line? Because if you think this travesty is going to be solved any other way than through demonstrative and forceful action on the parts of legal, law-abiding citizens, then you had best step aside now, because you are truly not prepared for this stuff. Do you want to just keep talking, and expect that to somehow bring about positive changes when it has never worked before? No. The time for discourse with these goons has passed. The next time we "extend our hands", it must be to drag these dogs out of their chairs and toss them out into the street.
What does that mean to us? It is very simple. If our elected officials refuse to do the work we hired them for, we summarily fire them. Padlock their offices and refuse them entry. File lawsuits as citizens' groups, and not under the brilliant, high-flying white flag of the WSRP. If the State Supreme Court won't act according to the constitution, padlock their chambers. Take to the streets. March on Olympia, and storm the Capitol. Haul the corrupt SOBs out of their offices and padlock the doors until we get what we as legal citizens deserve... REFORM. And what if the moonbats show up with sticks? Bring bigger sticks.
I admit that I am not certain about the legality of some of these things. I am not a legal expert as some here are. But hell's bells, people! When we see other totalitarian nations undergo sweeping positive democratic reforms because the people finally got angry enough to dig their heels in, and we can't even get our sh*t together enough to oust the most corrupt POS west of the Mississippi, I think that's pretty pathetic- and dammit, you should too. Especially when our OWN federal government wilfully looks the other way.
Well, if our own elected government won't take care of this, then it's time we took care of it ourselves. And I reiterate, folks: talking is not going to do the job. We have to get out there and get our hands dirty. Are we ready to do that or are we just jerking off here?
Posted by: ERNurse on August 7, 2005 09:12 PMHere Here!!
My info forwarded to hanna,
And I will check out http://www.electionreforms.blogspot.com/
I urge you to all do the same!!
I urge and challenge everyone upset, R & Dem alike to pledge a minimum of ONE HOUR of ACTION, to get the ball rolling. If enough of us do this, it WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!
We have our honorable servicemen in irag willing to die for Democracy there, what will we be willing to sacrifice to RESTORE Democracy here.
Patriots Unite!!
Posted by: Scott O. on August 8, 2005 09:51 AM....nor can you prove who the ballots that didn't get mailed out on time WOULD have voted for...
Posted by: Andy on August 9, 2005 11:36 AMWe have the numbers and the will to overwhelmingly beat the liberals with ballots.
I believe that there is the will (political capitol born of anger toward liberal criminal activity) to vote Republicans into office
even despite the impetus of liberal democrat political culture.
Giuliani overcame racketeering in New York City through support from the conservative wing of the Republican party. It can be overcome here.
Vote for (hopefully conservative) Republicans and when elected, hold their feet to the fire.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on August 9, 2005 12:33 PM