Driving back home in the car today, I heard talk host and veteran Bryan Suits on KVI-AM Seattle playing Merle Haggard's "Okee From Muskeogee," a great - in fact, priceless - piece of country music all about standing firm with your country in tough times of war.
As Suits very uncertainly noted on the air, Haggard (yes, in fact) released the song during the Vietnam War era. But it became clear on the air that Suits, who admirably served in Iraq, with his comments after a commercial break lead-in, was trying to apply the sentiment of Haggard's tune to the currrent, ongoing struggle involving U.S. forces in Iraq. And that wasn't quite on target.
I note this as a full-bore supporter of the Bush/U.S. policy in Iraq: Haggard has expressed very mixed (at best) sentiments regarding U.S. intervention there, and in fact has reaped media coverage noting the juxtaposition of his stands on Vietnam and Iraq.
Now, myself, I'd argue - even today - there's real convergence between what we failed to achieve in Vietnam, and what we still need to help Iraqis achieve.
But Bryan, your producer should have served you better on this one, at least with a heads-up on Haggard's well-publicized Iraq views. By citing 'Ol Patriot Merle with an implied supportive reference to the Iraq effort, you opened yourself up to an obvious shot from The Left. True, "Okie From Muskogee" progenitor Haggard seems the iconic True Blue 'Murican - but then, his patriotism, like that of many others, isn't a paint-by-the-numbers kind of thing.
Posted by Matt Rosenberg at September 16, 2005 10:27 PM | Email ThisThe timing and leadership conduct war has proven to be a huge blunder.
Now we're stuck with it.
Any comparisons to Vietnam are distractions and undermine the more serious nature of the Iraq war.
It is now far more important for the future of the world to achieve stablity and end the violence in Iraq than it was in Vietnam.
And it will be far more expensive, time consuming and difficult.
Posted by: Thor on September 17, 2005 09:35 AMThe timing of the war weighs heavily against the previous administration who diddled (literally!) while terrorists repeatedly attacked us.
"The leadership", while not perfect, is superior to anything any leftist could ever summon up.
The stakes are greater than your comprehension and appreciation: our very lives. Their message is clear (to anyone who has ears and any common sense that is): Ignore us at your own peril.
So sit snug & smug in your little cocoon while the grown-ups take care of the important stuff - lie protecting your sorry little ass!
Posted by: alphabet soup on September 17, 2005 10:03 AMI just canceled my subscription to Ladies' Home Journal because their October cover features Katie Couric. I am sick and tired of the MSM and I will be fighting back.
I sat in my little cocoon during the "diddling" years. No more.
Posted by: cc on September 17, 2005 12:13 PMHaggard's "Okie from Muskogee" was a parady of the idiots who pasted "my country right or wrong" on their bumper and flag decals on their windows. They loved the song themselves because they were too dim-witted to get the humor and derision Haggard was poking at them. We loved the song just as much because it stereotyped them so well; as people who were happy to let others do their thinking for them.
Today, we have an even dimmer crowd pasting yellow ribbons right on their paint jobs and posting comments on this blog. The sad part is that it tore the country apart back then and it will do so again now. Apparently our generation learned nothing from the tragedy of Vietnam.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on September 17, 2005 02:29 PMUnkl dimbulb, you can be proud of yourself and your congress for that cowardly action.
If you really think that's what happened in Vietnam, I can only conclude:
You are under 40, and have not spent much time studying the matter.
As I said, it's very discouraging to discover that we've learned nothing from our mutual national tragedy with Vietnam.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on September 17, 2005 04:28 PMThe liberals, who got us into the mess in the first place, did not have the stomach to finish the job. They refused to sell the South little things, like amunition, so the South could defend itself. When the North invaded, the South had nothing to stop the tanks with. The South collapsed when the North Vietnamese tanks entered Saigon. The South was defeated by an army, not a ragtag band of guerillas.
Review your history. If you take your blinders off, you might learn something. It was the MSM, especially that paragon of probity, Walter Cronkite, who lied to the American people during the Vietnam War. Just like they're doing today.
Posted by: Mike on September 17, 2005 05:45 PMBut that's a load of bull-shit. The ARVN never lacked for ammo. You're right about the Dem's getting us in (Kennedy & Johnson), but it was Nixon & Ford who continued the madness, and ultimately presided over America's defeat. If you were of age, you must have a very selective memory.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on September 17, 2005 06:48 PMThe fact we're even discussing a war of more than 30 years ago demonstrates the lack of solutions from today's Left.
Posted by: jimg on September 17, 2005 09:23 PMThe sad part is that it tore the country apart back then and it will do so again now. Apparently our generation learned nothing from the tragedy of Vietnam.
We learned that the left-liberals were capable of tearing this country apart. We learned to stand up to them and no longer shame us for being Americans.
You can't reason with him, and you can't shoot him (doggonnit!), so the next best thing is to insult him (Go ahead, it's easy, and fun!).
He reminds me of Juan Williams of FNS - the depth of his knowledge about anything is whatever simple-minded slogans from the DNC he has been told. He is happy to spew them in "polite company" simply for the effect they have on otherwise constructive conversation. He is indifferent to the fact that he is consistently (universally) wrong. Quite to the contrary, he appears proud of his ignorance!
I can see why Chokai would want to shut him up....
Posted by: alphabet soup on September 18, 2005 08:20 AM"I'm proud to be an a$$hole from El Paso".
Yes Kinky, "God and Lone Star Beer is where it's at."
Posted by: Huey on September 18, 2005 12:01 PMThe John Birch Society still exists? And they have a website? What, does it run on punch cards and a teletype? (They were ignorable back in the '60s, so its no surprise they are providing troll-bait.)
Actually, I do remember the Tet offensive. I was 16 at the time and working as a carry-out in a grocery store in a very small town in the mid-west. I poured over the tabloids showing pictures of exhausted soldiers sitting amongst sandbags and dead bodies, former human beings, stacked up like cordwood.
We had been told for some time prior that the war was going well and that victory was just around the corner. Very much like the Bushies would like us to believe in Iraq. Turns out it wasn’t going well at all. In fact, it was a disaster.
I was contemplating my own participation in this carnage. I already knew several local native sons who had gone to serve. The draft was real and very much a concern of my peers and our parents.
I know then as I know now, Vietnam was a bust, nothing I’d give my life for. And Lyndon Johnson and the Dem’s could go (insert Dick Cheney’s most famous quote).
I got a high lottery number and went off to college somewhat relieved I would not be so unlucky as to personally bear the consequences of bad foreign policy by our elected leaders. Then it occurred to me I’d still have to pay the taxes to support this ongoing insanity. That’s when I got some conservative values and started actively campaigning against this kind of crap.
So here we are 35 years later and I have to listen to the same brain-dead crowd tell me about wars to end all war. And they say I’m the dreamer……..
Let me get this straight: you saw some pictures in a newspaper or magazine and were able to deduce, at the age of 16 and with no formal military training, the state of operations in the southeast asia AOR? Enemy strength and morale indications? You were able to effectively gauge the enemies ability to continue sustained combat operations? Enemy combat power? Enemy mobility? Enemy logistical capability and material production capability?
Sounds to me like you bought the line. Hindsight being 20/20 and all, the North admitted that they knew the only way to win was through attrition and the best way to set things up in their favor was to cause discontent in the American homeland, thereby operating a two front war - one in Vietnam and another in America.
Posted by: Aaron on September 19, 2005 03:15 AMDid it really say all that or did you just make it up? Sound's to me like you're the one who is trying to sell a line. My point was that while you and pseudo weren't even born yet, the conflict in Vietnam was a very real, personal and day to day experience for some of us.
Posted by: Unkl Witz on September 19, 2005 07:07 AMI am simply astounded that an untrained observer could be so sure of the status of military operations and that that false belief was vindicated. It was vindicated due in large part to the exact nature of your response, Unkl Witz - we lost because you decided, "f that". Well, we really didn't lose, the South Vietnamese and Montenegros paid the price for you. Kind of like the Kurds and Shiites paid a heavy price when we cut and ran on them.
The short answer is that people like you made up your minds without the full story, just like you people are doing with Iraq. You don't listen to the front line troops or read the reports from combatant commanders. You don't care about electricty being generated or running water or infrastructure being rebuilt or any of that crap. All that you care about is desperately wanting to be right, desperately wanting to say, "I told you so". The plain fact is that Iraq will be finished and we will walk out of there with a relatively stable friendly government and probably a permanent base or two. You know, this country you call home has a pretty good damn track record at this occupier thing - we've had lots of practice. Anytime you doubt it, ask Germany, South Korea, or Japan. Sure they chomp at the bit nowadays but we did pour massive amounts of American blood and treasure into getting them back up and running.
Oh, and one more thing. I always love seeing the "We Support the Iraqi Insurgency" signs when I come home to Seattle. Makes me think that my friends that gave it all over in the sandbox really did it for something, you know? I'm sure that they appreciate your support of the people who attack with the basest form of cowardice and are not men at all. I say this as a muslim, a sunni at that - those ignorant bastards are TERRORISTS not INSURGENTS. They may not even rate that. They are filthy inhuman swine, and they will pay the price for what they have done here and when they face judgement. But you go right on ahead supporting them, you traitorous bastards.
Posted by: Aaron on September 19, 2005 12:03 PMSimple fact is Rich is a loser, always has been, always will be. Pretends towards some sort of twisted supercilious notions to cover the truth of his arrogance concealing his ignorance, and bluster hiding his cowardice.
In other words, his liberalism.....
Posted by: alphabet soup on September 19, 2005 01:25 PMMerle haggard has smoked more pot and snorted more coke than just about anyone alive.
IMHO, his songs show a pretty consistent classical liberal stance (libertarian) than any other.
You guys are your own worst enemy!
We love you. You're "proud to be an Okie from Muskogee".
We're glad you are "PROUD"!!!!
Posted by: Unkl Witz on September 19, 2005 07:35 PMFree and open protest? Sure, I support that. However, from the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition:
Trea·son Pronunciation Key (trzn)
n.
1. Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.
2. A betrayal of trust or confidence.
Seems to about fit the bill. Let's see what our Constitution has to say about it:
Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.
And what you may ask is the punishment of treason that has been declared by Congress?
From US Code Title 18 Section 2381;
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
But as liberals we are only sworn to uphold those parts of the constituion which are convenient to us, right? Forget all that useless crap about allegiance to one's country. Forget that providing moral support is one surefire way to lengthen a war. Forget that in the transcripts of al Zarqawi's speeches he makes repeated reference to articles in the Washington Post talking about losing the war. Forget all those inconvenient things. The key thing is that we liberals are going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and blame everything on Bush!
Posted by: Aaron on September 19, 2005 08:54 PM