Why did the numbers make it appear that King County counted more votes than voters last November?
If you listen to Dean Logan, it was because of "human error during the crediting process and when voters sign the poll books".
If you read the report from the fraudulent audit that cost the County Council $300,000 and whose only research apparently consisted of asking Dean Logan to fill in the blanks, the only explanation is human error during the crediting process. At least the audit report proposes an explanation for the error: "Space limitations made it difficult for staff to determine whether their hand-wanding devices were properly activated (e.g., hear a “beep”)" [p. 82]. Implied solution: build a new multi-billion dollar elections facility!
But there were other reasons why the numbers appeared to show that King County counted more votes than voters last November: For example, they counted more votes than there were voters.
One way this happened was by counting both an absentee and a provisional from the same voter. Here again is one example of many. More on this later.
Here's another good one I discovered down at the Archives today. In just one randomly selected box of counted provisional envelopes (last names starting with "L"), I found 3 envelopes from people who were not registered at all, but were assigned to precinct 1823 and their ballots were tabulated!
Given that the box contained 1,400 envelopes out of a total 28,000 provisionals counted, a simple extrapolation predicts that about 60 such bogus provisional ballots were counted. That could help explain why there were 111 provisional ballots tabulated in precinct 1823, but only 45 voters credited.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at October 13, 2005 05:41 PM | Email ThisI take it back.
Posted by: Jericho on October 13, 2005 06:14 PMGet a grip. You're making conservatives look bad.
But, adressing the very real issue of provisional ballots cast by unqualified/unregistered voters and then being COUNTED, one has to wonder what elections management was thinking?!?!?
Looking at the first example, even if Ms. Karri Lindemann was supposed to be registered, and it was an office error that she appeared not to be, why on earth would her ballot have been processed and tabulated in the precinct containing the King County Administration Building in downtown Seattle, rather than the precinct attached to her address and polling place she voted at in in Redmond.
The local offices on the two ballots are completely different!!!
Is there anything the county didn't screw up in the Governor's election?!?!?!?!
Posted by: Observer on October 13, 2005 06:35 PMI'm fairly confident that Jericho is engaging in a little bit of hyperbole. He's not making conservatives look bad. He's making conservatives look frustrated.
Personally, I lean more towards "git a rope!"
Posted by: Danny on October 13, 2005 06:40 PMYou are an attorney.
Are you volunteering to represent the injured class pro bono?
Posted by: Observer on October 13, 2005 06:41 PMRespectfully, you are wrong on this one.
Frustration is frustration. Violence is violence.
Suggesting an elected official and a public employee should be "gunned down" is actually walking a fine line of being a crime in and of itself. The first amendment doesn't protect advocacy of harm to others.
And yes, that kind of talk is harmful to getting the attention of the media focused on this issue.
Every time someone gets on this board and posts something utterly nutty, it adds fuel to the idea widely held by the mainstream media that: "The only people who care about the mismanagement of the 2004 election anymore issue are the wacko ultra-conservatives posting on that Shark Politcking right-wing blog."
That's not speculation. That's a fact. I'm frequently in contact with many media types, and this story is being dismissed as a continuing issue of urgency.
The nuts advocating violence (regardless of whether it was facetious or not) drown out the reasonable voices that show that there a very many reasonable people - Republicans, Democrats, unaffiliated, moderates, the whole spectrum of voters - who still do care very much that the 2004 election was even more tainted than was exposed in the Wenatchee trial, and that we still don't know who really won the Governor's election.
I simply believe people should think before they type.
Posted by: Observer on October 13, 2005 06:55 PMI prefer marching on the County building, firmly but gently removing Sims, Logan, Hunnekens and the rest of the KCE management.
Covering them in tar and feathers then giving them a ride on a outbound empty box car (running them out of town on a rail). Heck I even toss in a bottle of water a box of C-rats for everyone.
Hey, it's tradition out in the west, you gonna deny me my heritage and time honored practice of dealing with troublesome folks?
Posted by: JCM on October 13, 2005 07:09 PM"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
As you can see, thinking and dwelling have their place. So does hotheaded passionate speech. There is a United States of America today simply because some people shot off their mouths and had the courage and conviction to stand behind their words. Have you got what it takes?
Posted by: Aaron on October 13, 2005 07:53 PMI think Sims and Logan should be carefully tried, and then taken out & shot ;'}
Posted by: alphabet soup on October 13, 2005 08:22 PMIf we can't count on our vote counting. What are we left with.
What means to right the wrong.
Legal is out Judge Bridges set the standard impossibly high, you have to show who an illegal voter voted for, impossible with secret ballots.
Elections are fatally flawed.
Legal options are not feasible.
Prosecutors?
Norm? The Feds? Not interested.
What's left?
I thing we need to start picking up the old pitchfork and torch.
Posted by: JCM on October 13, 2005 08:29 PMJericho was not advocating violence. Geez, get a grip...then git a rope. I couldn't give a flying f*** what left-wing nitwits think about conservatives. Have you noticed what they think about everything else? They are, on balance, unprincipled morons who have no ethical or moral moorings.
If they want to look at Jericho's post and claim that SPers are advocating violence, they further reveal themselves as the fools they are.
Posted by: Danny on October 13, 2005 08:37 PMLook what he was trying to hide. It is clear by Logan's attitude that he just doesn't get it. He does know he works for us right?
I sent emails to the political reporters for the local papers urging them to write stories using Stefan's research. This is the kind of research/audit the citizens of King County deserve. Please join me by calling and writing local reporters and urging them to look at and report on all of Stefan's research.
Posted by: Joe on October 13, 2005 08:42 PMWenatchee was a joke. The judge didn't do anything to relieve this situation and instead side stepped the issue and put it all back on we the people. Well here we all are, still seeing more fraud and felons who don't give a damn about our Democracy. And this is all thanks to the hard work of the Shark, not the MSM or anyone else for that matter.
You know, that's the thing about the silent conservative majority. We don't get out and protest the Iraq war, destroy Seattle for the WTO riots, nor destroy any others property to save the planet. These people in power advocate violence for all of their causes, hell they advocate killing defenseless fetus' for a “woman’s right to choose”.
Well enough is almost enough. Eventually some of us are going to get tired of these people stealing our freedom, stealing our democracy, defrauding us from our money, thieving away our private property rights and making this damn state so close to the USSR, that some of us will stop short of drinking the Vodka and getting in the bread line. It may very well materialize that a few will just take matters into our own hands and remind them what brought us this freedom in the first place. And I don’t mean throw a bunch of tea into Puget Sound. No no. Aaron's post makes me imagine of a time when men were truly free in this County, I can only hope and pray that we can reverse what the liberal machine has created in the past thirty years.
This system is beyond broke, it’s easily manipulated and we the people are defenseless against the tyrannical dictatorship that is headed by a dim witted Queen and an arrogant party that thinks they are in control.
Vote YES ON I-912 and remind them exactly who is in control.
Posted by: SP Fan on October 13, 2005 09:57 PMIf you file the Federal Equal Protection suit, let us all know where to send the checks.
Stefan and all others; The questions know are Where do we go from here? What is preventing 2006 and 2008 from being the exact same thing? Since, the legislature appears to have zero interest/ability/leadership to solve this problem, When are the series of citizens initiatives going to start that will?
Question of the day: How can Olympia have so many dicks, yet still no balls?
Posted by: T.J. on October 13, 2005 10:13 PMThe editorial headlines the weekend we rolled into our new town read Graft is Good - as I said - the politicians here and their sychophants are at least honest about their dishonesty.
So, I ran, rather than continuing to fight. I live in a small town now, in an out of the way county.
My post was like the kid in Jr High pushing his friend forward, encouraging him to hit the hallway bully.
Now, as for the hallway bully, Sims, and men in general in America. There is going to come a time to fight. The government is getting bigger, more aggressive, more uncaring, and more injust.
Right now they take money and power, but when they keep taking power unjustly in order to take more money in order to take more power, etc. you've got to realize that what they are actually taking is your life. Money (property) is life.
Hear me out.
Money is stored energy that can be released as one sees fit. Who's stored energy is it? The one who labored for it. Some are able to leverage their labor by taking risks to earn a higher proportion than those who don't take such risks. That is called capitalism.
Some inherit their money - it comes from the labor or the leveraged labor of their ancestors.
Other get it threw corruption. Some are thugs, other are La Costra Nostra types.
Still others work as public servants.
They labor on behalf of the people who choose them to help guide a safe and civil society where people can live our their lives in this broken world as best as possible. Jefferson et al used much more flowering and poetic language to describe this contract between society and its choosen leaders.
Such a form of government is called a Republic. Washinton State is a Republic. It is required that it be so under the US Constitution. The United States is a Republic.
However, both work less well than in their earlier years.
There is another type of individual who earns his money through corruption. He is a man who behaves like Ron Sims now does. Sometimes these men are elected because they manage to fool enough people. Other times they operate behind the scenes and use front men as politicians and as lawmen.
There are such individuals in Seattle working their corruption behind the scenes.
Sometimes the corrupt politician - the front man - grows in power while he holds office even past the point of his behind the scenes patrons.
No matter the case here you (the people of the Republic of Washington) must ask yourselves some questions. How long will you allow it to continue for those who unjustly use their power to secure your life energy (money) for themselves that they may acquire greater power and so repeat the cycle. How long will you let it go on? Jefferson asked this question too. I believe he wrote that men bear burdens while they are still bearable.
No government is perfect. Corruption entered the Republic in the Washington administration, before that even. Recall the speculators who bought up the Continental notes for pennies on the dollar under the Articles of Confederation? The US at the time could not pay its debts. After Hamilton got in office he was lobbied by his NY banker buddies (the speculators) to honor the Continental notes. He and direct lobbying by the speculators on the Congressmen convinced the Congress to so vote to honor the Continental notes in full.
The Congressmen who ears were so turned likely did very well on Wall Street that next decade. Knowing when to sell. What and when to buy. US Senators today earn 12% on their portfolios - better than a lot of high performing funds. 1st term Senators earn 20% - better than almost every fund out there. How do they do it?
Insider trading! And they sent Martha Stewart to jail!
Are conditions still tolerable? Should we (in this case you) continue to take it?
War is a messy business. So is cleaning up a town in a violent way. And today with the image driven media, and the way it dominates, the righteous man who stands against injustice is often made to seem the nut. It seems one would not have a chance - either as an individual or as a group or as a militia in confronting the government.
Just look at Stefan and how he has been drug threw the mud. His leftist neighbors know who he is. His kids go to school in the city. It has taken a lot for him to be so bold.
How many of us have really stood by him? A post here and there. A phone call to the county building. Heck I ran. Packed my family and left Pierce County. Brave guy I am, eeh?
Oh, I did my little part. Turned out with Carlson's 570th a couple of times. Stood at exit 122 with a flag on occasion. Called Sims office and said, being a resident (former) of Pierce County that he wouldn't be getting any more of my sales tax dollars. Except of course that time I needed something from the Supermall. And so it goes. We are weak and they are counting on that. It is hard to be a man today, any day. We are so afraid of not looking like a man. Lower our voices when we talk to our mechanics. Yeah, it's probably the roter, we respond to our mechanic. (Whatever that is we think). Better go ahead and change that out, we say, trying to act like we could do it, but just don't have the time. Trying to look like a man - posing as one anyway. What did we lose in the Garden of Eden? Our courage!
And so back to Ron Sims. It's not my town - anymore. I have my own evils to confront here in Illinois. But trouble has a way of spreading - corruption is growing across this land. One cannot manage an economy. But they still try, and in doing so corrupt contracts and graft and kickbacks grow with their attempts to take more and more from us. And while they do this they justify it in their minds that we are unable to manage our own decisions and that there is no guiding invisible hand on the free market or on men's lives. And if we object to the use of our money for their power - it is then suddenly not us that has rights and powers and government only powers granted to it by us - but suddenly we have no rights - we are greedy for wanting to keep more of our life energy for the raising of our children - and to even pour into our own enjoyment on occasion - yes we are then greedy for depriving them of our money. And the power they have gained with our money is turned against us. Sometimes individually as the occasion in their mind warrants (Logan's assertion that Stefan was agenda driven was bait to the MSM for the tables to be turned - their power granted to them by us turned against Stefan for doing the people's work - is Stefan getting paid for it? - no - not more than marginally and by the free market, The Stranger, but not a noble contract with society as a hired servant - but he does our work anyway, society's work, and he is taking the fire - for us, while we chatter away and cry how awful it is in our postings. But if we were united it might be that it would be applied to all of us with greater force - even the force of law and maybe the force of the sword - if some being so desperate to maintain their power would stoop to such - and you are informed they have used the force of law already - the woman who they ran out of the elections office - the scapegoat who testified against them, her name escapes me. It is not such a big step for such as these if confronted in greater numbers to apply the force of the sword so as to maintain their power.
So what do you do. Do you take the law into your own hands? It is you the people who hold the power, given to you by God the same God that also blessed you with rights. The sword is given by God as well and God likewise holds the heart of Kings in his hands, even corrupt Kings like Mr. Sims. He warns such (see the 2nd Psalm) that if they remain in their ways they will reckon with Him. He laughs at them even.
And you? He grants you the authority to rule using His ways. It's your world, given to you by Him. It is a broken world, but it is still yours. It may be still heavily influenced by the dark forces of the ether, but their time like the seconds before a bulb burns out may flare yet in days to come, but burn out and come to an end their time will.
Should Ron and Dean be gunned down in the street? They haven't killed anyone and so they shouldn't. That would be murder to so gun them down. And the same law (power) that God gives you to vest in stewardship with them will be used against you if you take and remain in injust ways. But do you as a citizenry continue to respond in completely a civil manner or do you counter Sims and Logans uncivil behavior with some of your own. A kind of uncivil arms race so to speak.
Last December, I drove twice to the county line. Stopping my truck I took my prepared signs saying 'Fraud' and affixed them to the King County border sign overlaying the word King. I broke the law. It was uncivil. An appropriate uncivil response to the uncivil behavior that was clearly going on? I believe so. I have not been informed otherwise in talks with my Maker.
The egregious crimes of Logan and Sims et al have grown as they have worked to cover their tracks. Is a greater level of uncivil behavior called for now? I believe it is, yet I am no longer there. With near certainty I believe elevating uncivil behavior would be the needed if Sims uses corruption to hold onto power for another term. But you, of King County, of Washington State will have to make that decision for yourselves, what you will do?, how uncivil you will be?, if uncivil at all? And what will guide you in this? It is that same unseen hand of Providence that they dismiss when they justify their taking of your lives by taking your money (your property/your life energy). And there you have them for they are not guided in a like way. If God be for you than who can stand against you. Follow His lead. Civil or uncivil as He calls you to be, it is He you must follow. It is He who you must let lead - He only asks that you seek his confort, his stand on your behalf, and now that you indeed be courageous and let Him guide you - for the time for words draws to an end - action is needed.
I will post no more at Sound Politics. I must get on in my life. There are dragons to slay here as well. And baggage to let go of from Washington State. I will stop by to read occasionally. I pray for you all the best and ask you again to be courageous whatever may come of things in King County and Washington.
Take care.
And thank you Stefan for taking the fire, alone, so many times, and for all those long days and nights you have worked to expose the dark deeds of the corrupt to light of truth and thereby lay a foundation for a righteous government in the county and the State. I will shake your hand one day - on the other side of the river.
Thanks also to thinkers, of towering wisdom, who have contributed to my own thinking here. Some of you may recognize the thoughts and work of Joseph Farah, Lew Rockwell, and the thoughts of the man who wrote "Wild At Heart" - his name excapes me and I tire - and so choose not to climb the stairs to the study and seek it.
Be courageous, the times call for it.
Jericho :-)!
I knew your reference when you wrote it. I grow weary of pussy-footing around leftists, afraid to speak for fear of being misquoted and mischaracterized. This is one conservative who is pushing back.
I don't blame you for moving on - we all gotta choose our battles. Mine is here & now. I'm a life long resident and I ain't going anywhere!
The beauty of grassroots activism is that, even though your contribution may be comparatively small, its cumulative effect is powerful. The key is getting folks off their duffs (easier said than done for people who have to work for a living ;'}
You make a valuable contribution to SP so don't be a stranger - OK?
~soupy~
Posted by: alphabet soup on October 13, 2005 10:53 PMWe've lived in east-coast Mafia towns, big-time political machine towns. Philly, Atlantic City, Camden, Trenton. Genuine Tony Soprano Country (actually Tony was an idealized example. Pale next to Knucky Johnson, Mayer Lansky, Angelo Bruno, John Gotti, Little Nicky Scarfo). At least they hustled or horsetraded their elections fair and square. We've never before seen an election just plain STOLEN.
And nobody seems to want to do anything about it.
We're giving up. Ditched King County a decade ago, ditched Snohomish half a decade ago. Skagit is at least honestly elected, but the brainpower isn't there at the local level. And the state and federal legislative representation is the pits.
It'll take a while to pull up a $Mil+ worth of roots, but by mid-2007 we'll be gone.
Target zones are central Idaho, or maybe northern New Mexico (Mescalero Country). Or maybe New Zealand. Or Singapore. Or Bangalore. We have resources: we can go where we want.
In the meantime we'll do what we can to help here. Maybe it'll all turn around.
We're not wagering on it.
Posted by: RGH on October 14, 2005 12:47 AMHow can any sane person defend all these incidents as "honest mistakes?" Appears the only decent employee at KC elections was Nicole Way, at least she admitted to her superiors that her department had a problem...and they fired her for it. All these other issues have been covered up, hidden, and lied about, but nobody was reprimanded or fired. Which leaves us to assume that the leadership likes how the dept is functioning and wants business to continue in this same manner.
It is a sad, sad state of affairs when most third world countries have better elections than our state.
Posted by: dl on October 14, 2005 01:01 AM(WARNING to "Observer": this post is not entirely literal and may contain some hyperbole or facetiousness.)
The only violence I would advocate is instructing the police to agressively remove policial officials from their offices after their term has expired or if a judge so orders their arrest.
My feeling is there there are three potential ways of trying to use the courts to get the attension of King County leadership. I have no faith that one can directly litigate elections and I have no faith in Rino's Norm M, Ralph M, or our new Attorney General picking up the litigative gauntlet.
My thoughts are first a civil fraud case involving economic damages to someone who relied upon written and public statements by King County officials that they have fixed past problems identified in past elections, when they have not been fixed.
My second suggestion would be some federal litigation as has been suggested having to do with either a military vote lost (Brian Suits?) or with civil rights violations.
My third suggestion is a bit of a harrassing action to get attension. Metro was broken up because it violated the one man one vote rule. Many of the Metro functions were turned over to King County and the King County Metro has been steadily trying to create multi-regional advisory councils that allow it to function like it use to. Sound Transit, Puget Sound Air Pollution Board (or whatever it is this week) and various "regional" groups have formed to do large projects and control things among multiple governmental boundaries. I would see nothing wrong with a surgical effort to take apart some of the "great Regional works" of Ron Sims.
There is one other option that really has the career politians upset. That option is the initiative. Most Counties and Cities, as well as, the State have initiative and/or referendum opions in their charters/constitution. If I-912 caught the public attension, why couldn't something on operation of elections. If Seattle strip club owners (from what I read in the local fish wrapper) have decided to do a City initiative to change the City Council law changing the regulation of strip clubs, why can't a Seattle or King County initiative be created to deal with how elections are conducted?
Maybe we need a state initiative that says that unless a Counties election operations meet certain standards it is to be denied some shared sales tax or gas tax or public works interest free loans.....
Just some thoughts.
signed-"one who has lost faith in elections where King County is the deciding factor"
Posted by: Bob on October 14, 2005 08:16 AMAdvocating violence, even jokingly, can, and will be used against those advocating it. At one level, it can be used to label them as "nuts" and "cranks", belittling their true statements and effectively shielding them from those people who would have otherwise been receptive to their message. If the message can be connected to those advocating violence, then even decent people can be turned against the problems, thereby ensuring those in power stay in power. At another level, those in power can seize upon the statements and use them to bind them up in courts and drain them of their resources (since those in power effectively "own" the court system and the laws). What if those in power decide to prosecute Mr. Sharkansky for his website because it advocated "hate"? That may be a big stretch of the imagination right now, but in the near future? Such an action would tie Mr. Sharkansky up timewise and financially so that he couldn't uncover the problems at KCE. And it wouldn't take much right now. Imagine someone reads the "Open Range" message, decides that he is the man for the job, and does shoot someone. During questioning, he mentions that he was merely following through on what he had read in Sound Politics. Don't you think those in power would jump on Mr. Sharkansky with both feet? Probably gleefully.
Violence does solve some problems, I repeat, violence does solve some problems, and sometimes can be very satisfying for the moment, but it is not the solution. Violence always creates more problems.
If you don't like what those in power are doing, well, fortunately for us, we live in a democracy! Vote them out, then uncover the wrongdoing, then prosecute. If not this election, then the next, or the next.
Work within the system to change the system. That is exactly what has happened in the past thirty years with the liberals. The solution is not going to happen immediately, and certainly not at the end of a rope.
Not when it's applied correctly ;'}
Posted by: alphabet soup on October 14, 2005 10:24 AMHow does one "vote them out" when it "appears" they are manipulating the election?
Posted by: Shalimar on October 14, 2005 10:51 AMLogan should have been more open about the problems he was having, whether it was that his employees could no hear the beep of a bar code wand, or that he was unsure about many of the provisionsals. Logan should had the guts to stand up and ask that in the extraordinary close case of this election, he needed more time to verify provisionals and absentees before rushing to certification. Instead, everything was conducted behind closed doors, with the input of the few. Even Sam Reed, had no clue as to what was going on in King County. Logan took a bad situation, and made it far worse by covering up.
And, by rushing to the deadline, and pretending that problems did not exist, Logan was able to take advantage of our weak election contest law, to forever leave the result of this election dubious.
Irons needs to make these facts crystal clear to every King County voter. We've got to get rid of Sims and Logan if we are ever to begin to get King County away from such criminally negligent voting processes. It's unconscionable that in the USA, I feel the same was about King County Elections as I do about the way Hugo Chavez conducted the last "election" in Venezuela.
Thanks again to Stefan for everything he has done in exposing the elections flaws.
Lastly, eveyone here needs to write cogent, assertive, but polite letters to their King County council person asking for an explanation of Stefan's discoveries.
Posted by: Jeff B. on October 14, 2005 11:00 AMIn fact, for proof that "making nice" with sacks of s*** does NOT work, see: Neville Chamberlain's idiotic "peace in our time," or Jack Chirac's French nose stuck up Saddam Hussein's arse.
Thank God there are those who do not engage in whistling past the graveyard.
Posted by: Danny on October 14, 2005 11:07 AMSince results in King County have the ability to drive (run over) the rest of the state, I would go one more step - similarily, write to your legislative representatives to put pressure on King County to come clean. We should expect that all counties would have clean systems and processes and that our state representatives would do more to assure WE THE PEOPLE are being protected from illegal voters and illegal votes.
Posted by: SouthernRoots on October 14, 2005 11:08 AMHow about we use reasoned arguments to convince those people voting for the status quo to vote otherwise? We won’t be able to do that with our arguments laced with threats of violence, no matter how comically played.
I believe, maybe naively, that most people are reasonable, and if presented with the thesis that the sky is blue, and shown enough proof (hard to find in Seattle, I’ll grant you), they will concede the fact and begin to believe that the sky is blue.
How about we use the courts to tie their resources up, and generate the publicity against them? This nation is a nation of laws and rules, apply them rigorously, demand that they be used. Every double voter prosecuted and sentenced would be another sign to the people about what’s going on in KCE.
How about if enough misdeeds are uncovered they will be forced to resign? Mr Sharkansky is doing this now, and it is starting to have effect. Comparisons to Woodward and Bernstein are not improbable, albeit at a state level.
I freely admit I do not have the time or resources to do the latter two, but I do talk to people, and occasionally I get into a political discussion, and I try gently to mature the childish side of the democrats (a Republican is simply a Democrat who has finally grown up ;) Tanstaafl ), and hopefully I do some good.
Be assured, all of this will come to light, and Hollywood will make a movie about it (well . . . maybe an independent will, seeing as how most of Hollywood’s elite are democrats), and we’ll play the game of who will star as Mr. Sharkansky.
Posted by: HappyGoLucky on October 14, 2005 11:26 AMSome men only respond to violence, whether giving it or receiving it. That’s just the way it is.
However, violence does always produce more problems. Always will. Those problems may be unrelated to the original reasons for the violence in the first place, but they will crop up.
However satisfying it might be to beat a man who hits his wife (the violence), and that man never hits his wife again (solution to original problem), you’ll still have bruised your knuckles a bit (new problem, unrelated to original problem). This is, of course, presented, tongue-in-cheek. I don’t advocate hitting your wife, or beating a man who does.
Posted by: HappyGoLucky on October 14, 2005 11:45 AMMany of you may think that is too over the top. Too bad. Where I come from, you don't treat women like that. And if you do, you need to be man enough to take you whipping like a man...and never do it again.
Momma from Texas...Daddy from Alabama..'nuff said.
I do apologize for any offense, but I don't apologize for the sentiment, or the commitment to follow through ever in the future.
Posted by: Danny on October 14, 2005 11:58 AMWrong again, and your example of the 'problem' of bruised knuckles as a result of beating the crap out of somebody who clearly needs it reveals a philosophy of a person much different than myself.
You may not appreciate it nor understand it, but you should be thankful there are people who use - and support the use of - violence to solve the problems you don't have the cajones to do yourself.
Posted by: jimg on October 14, 2005 12:01 PMI agree wholeheartedly with Danny's second post, if anyone ever hits one of my friends or family, they'd have to tear me offa him. Which is why my example was tongue-in-cheek.
I have posted, twice, this is the third time, that violence does solve some problems. Refer back to my original post please.
Shalimar - I agree, however, I never said that those in prominence on the left were reasonable. I was referring to the voters. Convince enough voters that . . .
Perhaps if FOX news were brought into the story? Mr. Sharkansky, have you ever thought about being a talking head on O'Reilly's program? Maybe even write a book?
Posted by: HappyGoLucky on October 14, 2005 12:12 PMHowever if it will be done it has to be lawfully and in great numbers. Employing the cleverest of ideas and speed.
Posted by: Son of Liberty on October 14, 2005 12:16 PMYou assume way too much. She wouldn't return to him, because he'd run from her, full of the knowledge that I'd keep on coming.;)
You ask who will win...I will. References available upon request.;}
Posted by: Danny on October 14, 2005 12:36 PMMy strongest feelings are directed against the 'news' organs who supposedly inform the citizenry of this democracy of currrent events, so that rational voting can properly select political candidates.
In the case of King County Elections, a real newspaper would have had a battery of reporters infesting that office immediately, once the election returns had indicated the multiple votes counted, felon votes counted, unverified provisional ballots counted, unregistered voters credited - and the obvious mindset in the Department that the counting (welcoming!) of all paper vaguely similar to a ballot trumped any sort of quality control attached to determining eligibility or checking for multiple votes. Such quality control is mandated by the RCWs and WACs, but apparently here in King County, we don't need no steenkin' quality control.
Those mythical reporters would be armed with supoenas and Dean Logan's delay and stonewalling would have availed him (in a world of unbiased reporting) countrywide exposure as a less than ethical county officer, if not a potential crook.
However, long experience with the P-I has made clear that a letter in praise of Stefan Sharkansky and blogging in general, with a sharp complaint about their own failure to investigate, goes just barely as far as their round file. Hence my muted bleat.
Posted by: Hank Bradley on October 14, 2005 12:42 PMIndicted criminals everywhere in the republican party and you are talking about a few voting errors--which happen every election...remember how Bush became president? The old Jewish folks voting for Buchanan? My word....GET A GRIP.
Posted by: Jeremy Oldham on October 14, 2005 01:38 PMThe best thing to do is keep exposing these frauds - I am sick of having to hear about them. Bring the minutemen into King County Elections to help monitor vote counting and voting booths and raise a ruckus if there something crooked ! The more eyes we have on them, the merrier and then the press will get into the act and have to report it.
You know and I know that Sims & co. are worried big time about this election and will do ANYTHING that it takes to win, including stuff ballot boxes - call on Moveon.org frauds to help out. That's where the minutemen and additional Republican observers ought to be present - at the suspected precincts where ballot box stuffing happened in the 2004 election. Also, just in case of a recount - start tallying up felon votes and getting the affadavits ready for them to sign - something the Rossi lawyers should have done before the Wenatchee trial !
Posted by: KS on October 15, 2005 10:46 AM