November 09, 2005
Three Questions For Joel Connelly

Buried deep in Connelly's column today were these two paragraphs:

After insisting on error-free work by the county elections office, the King County Republican Party mounted a ballyhooed challenge to 1,944 county voters.

It turned out that 50 people on the GOP's list of bogus addresses live in the Watermarke, one of Belltown's best-known addresses.  State Republican Chairman Chris Vance had to apologize, while lamely insisting that a majority of the challengers were still valid.

Which leads me to pose these questions to Mr. Connelly:

  1. Do you have any reason to think that Vance was wrong in that claim?
  2. Do you believe that vote fraud is wrong — even when it is committed by Democrats?
  3. Have you criticized vote fraud committed by Democrats in any column you have written in the last ten years?

Those who have been reading my site for any length of time will know that there is no shortage of examples of vote fraud committed by Democrats (and, less often, by Republicans).

(Note: Any other journalist (or Democratic activist) who would like to take this pledge and come out against vote fraud — even when it is committed by Democrats — is welcome to do so here.)

Posted by Jim Miller at November 09, 2005 02:43 PM | Email This
Comments
1. First off, let me say I am a Republican.

That being said, Joel Connely may be onto something when he writes stuff like this. Personally, if Connelly were drowning, I'd throw a rock. However, this States Republican Party has a reputation for making very serious charges against people and then following up these charges with lame results.

Need I bring up the the felon list in the Rossi case? This most current list is just more of the same. where did this it even come from and was there any research done at all before filing these accusations?

Posted by: prr on November 9, 2005 03:11 PM
2. First off, let me say I am a Republican.

That being said, Joel Connely may be onto something when he writes stuff like this. Personally, if Connelly were drowning, I'd throw a rock. However, this States Republican Party has a reputation for making very serious charges against people and then following up these charges with lame results.

Need I bring up the the felon list in the Rossi case? This most current list is just more of the same. where did this it even come from and was there any research done at all before filing these accusations?

Posted by: prr on November 9, 2005 03:11 PM
3. If I vote absentee and then vote provisional on election day, will that increase the odds of my vote being counted?

Posted by: Macaw on November 9, 2005 03:18 PM
4. The link to Connelly's column isn't working.

Posted by: Bob in SeaTac on November 9, 2005 03:25 PM
5. Is is just me, or is Connelly complaining about the scratched paint on the hull of the Titanic?

Nevermind that 1,894 still appear to be bogus.

If KC elections wants to restore faith, how about a little follow through to expunge the frauds?

Posted by: Andy on November 9, 2005 04:01 PM
6. Andy,

Whether the remiander of the complaints ar valid is almost worthless.

If you make a claim like this, the Republican Party should be doing there homework and making sure that some entry level intern cannot debunk this accusation.

Posted by: prr on November 9, 2005 04:07 PM
7. Well, well and tut, tut to you! Looks like WA State Republicans are developing quite the reputation as kooky political cranks and tin-foil hat paranoid nutjobs!What sort of ill-advised bungling will you be up to next. If you need to get your hands on "secret" information, I hear G.Gordon Liddy is for hire. In and Out! No one will be the wiser...

Posted by: Dr. Quest on November 9, 2005 04:09 PM
8. Can we at least agree that this infantile focus on the King County elections department as the root of all evil has backfired big time on the GOP in King County? The first step toward recovery for the state's GOP would be to admit its become powerless to move all but the rabid base with this focus - and alienate most everybody else.

The I-912 campaign cost all of us about $100 million in project delays - about three times the amount we have paid since the first 3 cents kicked in - in July.

It feels a lot like having to pay for the monorail and getting nothing for it.

Some message from the crack team running this state's GOP.

We justed wasted more with this GOP flip-out than the state DOT has wasted in the past 20 years.

The party of waste and election stunts? Our GOP needs a better message.


Posted by: thor on November 9, 2005 04:19 PM
9. Way to miss the point...

Like Caesar's wife, you have to be above suspicion if you're going to allege King County is committing fraud. Trying to disqualify 50 voters who are legally registered is pretty far from that.

No, it doesn't excuse our county elections department being run by Moe, Larry and Curly. But gee, the Republicans made a mistake trying to point out someone else's mistake. Not the best way to gain credibility.

Posted by: eponymous coward on November 9, 2005 04:38 PM
10. Sadly, I'm forced to agree with Thor - the Republican party in Washington state is acting very much like the Democrats nationally. There is no vision, no overarching hopeful message, or specific plans that provide a clear alternative.

We sit back and we mock the Dems for their idiotic rants on how evertyhing is "Bush's fault", but then we turn around and use "Blame Sims" as our grand strategy for winning? We can demonize Sims, Gregoire, Reed, and the Democratic state legislature all we want, but we're just preaching to the choir.

I have to believe that Republicans in this state are smarter than that, but we need to actually prove it. We need a plan here - one that offers detailed specifics, timelines, and cost estimates. Vague allusions to "change" and constant soapbox rants on how corrupt the current state/county government is (no matter how true) aren't working.

Posted by: Darth Dogbert on November 9, 2005 04:44 PM
11. Bob in SeaTac - The link should work now. Thanks for catching that.

And to the critics -- I note with interest that, so far, no one has taken the pledge. All you have to do is say that vote fraud is wrong -- even when it is committed by Democrats.

Or, if you don't believe that, be honest enough to say so.

Posted by: Jim Miller on November 9, 2005 04:46 PM
12. Where is the FBI on this?! KCE officials have broken the law so many times, and there is ZERO penalty. And with the fox guarding the hen house, what chance do the voters have?

This is tyranny, plain and simple.

Posted by: Bostonian on November 9, 2005 05:01 PM
13. Vote fraud is wrong, even when committed by Democrats or Republicans. Based on your past posts on this topic, however, what you call fraud is generally just background noise in an imperfect system. If you want to spend a lot of time cleaning up the system, go for it. I don't think it's worth the money, but reasonable people can differ. In the meantime, as Thor points out above, this issue has almost no traction in King County beyond the anti-government right. So I hope the Republicans continue to put their time, money and energy into this battle. What a great day it will be when Dean Logan is forced from office. And Ron Sims will still be county executive, the Dems will still control the county council and Republicans will be scratching their heads wondering why a majority of people in King Co. don't take them seriously.

Posted by: Steven Donegal on November 9, 2005 05:14 PM
14. Steven D.: Failing to follow the law is not "background noise."

Posted by: irreparably disgusted with democrats on November 9, 2005 05:38 PM
15. Thor,
You said: "Can we at least agree that this infantile focus on the King County elections department as the root of all evil has backfired big time on the GOP in King County?"

No Thor, we can't agree on that. Read Jim's post very carefully again. Then read Stefan's post on putting Sims' win in perspective. Corruption in the King County election office did hurt Ron Sims. Big time. ha.

Can you prove that I-912 cost us $100 million already. Just prove it. That accomplished exactly what I had hoped for. It kept Mrs. Gregoire in limbo wondering, waiting.

Posted by: cc on November 9, 2005 05:57 PM
16. What does Detroit's election fraud have over ours? Maybe the Feds just have to work their way over to the west coast...state by (liberal corrupt) state.

http://www.detnews.com/2005/metro/0511/06/A01-373423.htm

[snippet]Sunday, November 6, 2005

Feds start absentee vote probe

Questions, complaints about how city clerk handles elections prompt FBI to investigate.

By David Josar, David Shepardson and Lisa M. Collins / The Detroit News


The Justice Department has opened a preliminary inquiry into allegations of voter fraud in Detroit in response to complaints received by the FBI and U.S. Attorney's Office in recent days, a federal official confirmed to The Detroit News.

Some complaints were prompted by a series of Detroit News articles that raised questions about how City Clerk Jackie Currie's office ran the city's August primary. Reporters found evidence that confused, legally incapacitated people marked ballots with the help of Currie's election assistants; people voted from abandoned buildings and vacant lots; and the city's master voter list contained 380,000 incorrect names and addresses -- including people who have died.

Stephen Wasinger, an attorney for Maureen Taylor, the write-in City Council candidate whose pending lawsuit claims voter fraud, confirmed federal prosecutors contacted him Wednesday about the probe. He said the U.S. Attorney's Office "was very concerned" about Taylor's allegations and what The News had uncovered.[/snippet]

Posted by: Deborah on November 9, 2005 06:07 PM
17. I'm willing to capitulate to any Democrat and liberal and agree with their assessment of yesterday's results, as long as they will do the same and acknowledge the results of November 2004:

"Can we at least agree that this infantile focus on the Ohio and Florida elections departments as the root of all evil has backfired big time on the Democrats in America? The first step toward recovery for the National Democratic Pary would be to admit its become powerless to move all but the rabid base with this focus - and alienate most everybody else."

thor?

Posted by: Larry on November 9, 2005 06:10 PM
18. The point is that the State GOP condoned perjury when their representative signed a statement that they had personal knowledge that the address listed on those voter registrations were false. We now know, and the GOP has admitted, that a number of those challenged voter registrations were in fact legit. In my book it is equally criminal for someone to register or vote fraudulently as it is for someone to lie in their challenge of voter registration. The state GOP loses credibility everytime they make an accusation that later turns out to either not be true or much less than what they orginally led us to believe. Chris Vance needs to be replaced by someone that puts the interest of the Republican party ahead of his personal desire for publicity.

Posted by: eric on November 9, 2005 06:15 PM
19. Steven Donegal,

"Based on your past posts on this topic, however, what you call fraud is generally just background noise in an imperfect system."

You are aware that Judge Bridges found approximately 1,700 illegal votes in an election decided by 129? And Stefan found hundreds of illegally registered voters merely by walking to local mailbox stores?

Are you content with the fact that Governor Gregoire was elected by "background noise in an imperfect system"? You don't think it's a worthwhile expenditure of funds in order to make sure that the occupant of Washington State's highest elected office is not determined by "background noise"?

I get background noise from my cell phone and old Grateful Dead bootlegs. I wonder who this background noise will elect next time around? And I wonder if Steven Donegal is intelligent enough to care?

Posted by: Larry on November 9, 2005 06:24 PM
20. I don't really give a rat's rump WHO is guarding the hen house (D,R,I). I want clean elections...No more coverups, No more lawsuits with a judge telling the PEOPLE to clean up the mess.

I want KC elections to answer for their "fraud", mistakes, or plain lack of attention. Since KC runs this state, it should be held at higher standards than any other county.

Posted by: Chris on November 9, 2005 06:54 PM
21. The propaganda machine is alive and well! The media maks a big issue of a ~2.5% error rate to give republicans a black eye while ignoring the criminal action of the remaining ~97.5%

Posted by: Gary J on November 9, 2005 07:44 PM
22. At the polling place where I worked, we had one of the challenged voters. It happened because of King County Elections. When she married, she filed the paperwork to reregister with her new married name and as an absentee voter. She was then registered twice - in addition to her married absentee registration, she also had a registration in her maiden name to vote at the polls. She had no clue about this until she received 2 letters from King County challenging her registrations.

Fraud, no. Incompetence, you bet. Where's the story about this? Apparently no one cares, and maybe it's time for me to stop caring too.

Posted by: Bubbasaurus on November 9, 2005 11:25 PM
23. The point is that the State GOP condoned perjury when their representative signed a statement that they had personal knowledge that the address listed on those voter registrations were false. We now know, and the GOP has admitted, that a number of those challenged voter registrations were in fact legit.

Whether the conduct constitutes perjury would depend upon whether a reasonable person, knowing everything the GOP staffers knew, would have believed that the addresses in question were bogus. Since I would see no particular reason to expect the Republican staffers to make up addresses arbitrarily, I would guess that they probably had some reason to believe they were bogus. Since I have no idea what their evidence was, I have no way of knowing if their belief was reasonable.

To put things in perspective, though, it's important to realize that every fraudulent vote that is cast disenfranchises a legitimate voter. If someone challeneges 1,000 registrations and 100 of them are really legit, and as a result of said challenge 5 people are wrongly prevented from voting but 90 people who would have voted fraudulently are prevented from doing so, the net result of all the challenges is that 85 fewer people would be disenfranchised than if the challenger did nothing.

Posted by: supercat on November 9, 2005 11:37 PM
24. Supercat:
Good points. One correction, though. It has been discussed and clarified so many, many times on this site and elsewhere, that if a voter's registration is challenged, that does not mean the person cannot vote. They can go ahead and vote, indeed should, and the canvassing board will determine whether they are properly registered or not. A challenge does not prevent anyone from voting. A challenge is an opportunity to clarify and authenticate registration information.

Posted by: katomar on November 9, 2005 11:57 PM
25. There is one Bright Spot to Sims re-election....

Dean Logan and Ronny Boy will both be around to defend "Their" Sewer of Corruption when the 1800+ challenged voters get their day in court.....Can't wait to hear the MSM spin this one.

Posted by: Chris on November 10, 2005 06:49 AM
26. Thor,

Whatever I-912 supposedly cost, it didn't slow anything down that was promised by the Democrats during their campaign.
Emergency Bicycle Lanes in Moses Lake were never mentioned.

That you disagreed with me about transportation issues is one thing. You were wrong, but your side won so be it. Now you can watch the REAL FACTS unfold.

When our government takes it upon themselves to openly lie and use YOUR’S AND MY MONEY to campaign against you and me unfairly, there is something wrong. They understood that if they advertised enough, using lies and exaggerations that people would buy into the lies and vote accordingly. It worked. Future audits will prove that revenues from the gas tax financed the campaign against the people, not transportation. Had the tables been turned you would scream like a stuck pig, but then the tables are never turned because conservatives don't play the game like liberals do. Your side thinks they won, but they lost in the very worst of ways. You WILL NOT GET THE PROJECTS YOU THINK YOU WILL, and you have further damaged your integrity by insisting on ignoring the obvious in favor of foolish mindless partisanship.

Even after it is proven to you over the next year, you will (of course) turn a blind eye to the reality that the 9.5 cent gas tax is a complete boondoggle. That is part of the luxury of being liberal where facts don't matter. The fact is, that next year after the dust settles, Gregoire et al. will raise taxes again with the same glib unaccountability and nothing substantial will be done to correct real transportation problems with those revenues either. Then, Gregoire will impose a State Income tax, and use those funds to consolidate her power and she will base it on more of the same style of lies using your money to campaign against you and your interests. She will flummox Washington's citizens promising to fix things, after demonstrating that she has no intention to fix anything, all while laughing at you behind your back for being so foolish.

You and I have a difference of opinion that centers on the primacy of facts over fancy, and the facts are going to prove you very wrong. What most of us wanted in voting for I-912 was that Gregoire be responsible for her actions. Democrats instead believe that they can TRUST her, even after she has proven she cannot be trusted. This may not matter to you, but it does to the rest of us who would rather spend our money doing productive works like fixing transportation.

How about that Emergency Bike Lane in Moses Lake?
Real transportation priority huh? Quite amusing indeed.

Posted by: Amused by liberals on November 10, 2005 08:52 AM
27. Larry~

I do consider 1700 illegal votes in an election of close to 2.7 million votes to be background noise. There will always be some error rate in elections. I'm willing to live with an error rate of less than .1%, because in 99+% of elections, it doesn't make any difference. Hopefully though, you and your fellow Rs will disagree and continue to waste your time, effort and money on an issue that will do nothing to get your candidates elected.

Posted by: Steven Donegal on November 10, 2005 02:46 PM
28. Steve Donegal,

What you fail to take into account is that the 1700-odd illegal votes only represent a portion of those that were found out, and that sanctioning lawlessness is both a deliberate social infirmity in general, as well as an encouragement to ever-widening abuse.

You can live with such error rates because of a glib attitude about the inevitable damage that will be done by an insouciant public consciousness towards breaking rules set forth to protect all of us. I can live with corruption also if I absolutely must, (although I would rather not) but only because I might be forced to because I happen to live in a county full of liberals.

Posted by: Amused by liberals on November 10, 2005 03:56 PM
29. Tired of it already...people are acting like Republicans have taken away everyones voting rights, when all they have done is formally requested KC to review some registrations that might appear questionable. No ones voting rights have been revolked by the Republicans. This is the manner KC has stated that voter challenges must be made, and further that it is not their place to inniatite challenges - that must originate elsewhere.

So 50 out of almost 2,000 might be in error, but what of the other 1,950? NO LEGAL VOTERS have had their voting rights harmed by the Republicans making this request.

Posted by: dl on November 11, 2005 01:05 AM
30. katomar: ...if a voter's registration is challenged, that does not mean the person cannot vote.

No, but I was being pessimistic and figuring that the increased hassle would dissuade 5% of challenged people from voting even though they were entitled. I was also assuming that 10% of the bogus registrations would be used to cast votes. My point was that even under those assumptions (both of which seem quite conservative) the net effect was to reduce by 95 the number of people disenfranchised by cheaters.

Posted by: supercat on November 11, 2005 04:46 PM
Post a comment
Name:


Email Address:


URL:


Comments:


Remember info?