The party of perpetual vote fraud has leapt to the defense of the mail box residents:
King County Democrats, who claimed that the Republican challenges were an attempt to intimidate and disenfranchise voters and discredit County Executive Ron Sims, are considering assisting voters at the hearings, said David McDonald, a party national-committee member.The Washington voter registration form asks for both the "Address Where You Live" and the "Address Where You Get Your Mail"Shanna Sawatzki, a Democratic activist who contacted a number of challenged voters over the weekend, said most who registered using mailbox businesses as their addresses did so because it was convenient and didn't know it was illegal.
it also warns the applicant that providing false information on the form is a felony
The Democrats prefer to ignore any law that imposes order and fairness on the voting process. Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at November 10, 2005 10:03 AM | Email This
Utter disregard for the law.
Posted by: baffles on November 10, 2005 10:19 AMTotal and utter disregard for the law.
I remember in the old days when my registration didn't get transferred from Bellevue to Seattle or vice-versa, it was too bad. I could vote at my original polling place.
Or, let me check your ballots because if you have a bump or a hanging chad, your vote won't count.
Now, you don't even have to sign, except me, because my ballot required it.
Posted by: baffles on November 10, 2005 10:22 AMPosted by: Jeremy on November 10, 2005 10:24 AM
Maleng is a disgrace. I hope someone decent runs against him in the primary.
Posted by: BJ Gadfly on November 10, 2005 10:38 AMIt seems that your efforts on election day weren't about helping the process. Seems that you went in looking for, expecting (planning???) an episode to once again rile the right-wing masses away from the reality of their failed policies to a sham of a non-issue.
It played out well don't you think? Leaving your responsibility because you say you have the (and this is *really* hard to type) moral high ground.
You and the KC republicans have done nothign but sling mud the entire process -- unable to accept your candidate's losses (based on voter judgment and, as is all too typical for republicans, judge rulings) you decide you will create a poisoned atmosphere of manufactured mistrust.
Shame on you.
Be proud to be an American. Participate in the process. But don't sling lies and fear in a way that is designed to nothing but create unwarranted chaos.
Now, go away to Texas or Montana or wherever else the people who think like you like to live.
Posted by: Frustrated Voter on November 10, 2005 10:53 AMShanna Sawatzki, a Democratic activist who contacted a number of challenged voters over the weekend, said most who registered using mailbox businesses as their addresses did so because it was convenient and didn't know it was illegal. "They didn't have any ill intent," she said.
It doesn't seem to matter whether the problem is voting more than once, voting when ineligible, registering under a false address, or any other such thing.
The poor little voters just didn't know the law, or forgot, or whatever.
But, when someone like Stefan educates a person at the polls and ensures that a person who is ineligible to vote recognizes his own ineligibility, that's a bad thing.
And, when the GOP challenges irregular voter registrations, that's a bad thing.
Is it ever a bad thing in the view of the Dems when there is no apparent Republican or conservative involved?
Posted by: Micajah on November 10, 2005 10:55 AMWhat lies?
Posted by: BJ Gadfly on November 10, 2005 10:57 AMOnce again, the uber-liberals are depending on the "we so dumb" defense. Talk about a Culture of Corruption! How can any ethical person want to be associated with that crowd?
Posted by: starboardhelm on November 10, 2005 10:59 AMThat Gregorie's election was a fraud.
That King County elections are fraudulent.
No matter that these conclusions were based on court findings (remember...the eastern WA court case)? It keeps on being spread.
It's wrong and it's illegal, but as long as the loophole word "knowingly" is in the warning, no judge/jury in KC will convict them.
Posted by: RonP on November 10, 2005 11:02 AMIf you believe that unregistered people should vote, you are misguided. If you think people should commit a felony by registering to vote at a mailbox, you are misguided.
The chaos in King County is caused by Dean Logan making a decision NOT to follow Washington State Laws.
Then note, when the government wants to collect revenue, at its convenience as in "do you know why I pulled you over sir? You were speeding? I'm going to have to issue you a citation."
The government holds all the cards, therefore it's the government that we have to hold accountable. We need to investigate every one of these illegal registrations so that therr is consistency and fairness in the application of government. And we need to investigate the many provisional ballots that were counted last year right before certification for the same reason.
Democrats prefer to use government only when it is convenient to their ends.
Posted by: Jeff B. on November 10, 2005 11:07 AMGiven what I've seen by the republicans, I'm sure you'd be wiling to sign *under penalty of perjury that you have personal knowledge" of my lack of a morall compass.
What a stupid thing to say.
You have demonized Logan to the point of no return. Why don't you put your demonizing efforts where they belong -- you are good at finding fault where courts have found none...why not focus on people where the courts have found fault?
Posted by: Frustrated Voter on November 10, 2005 11:11 AMIs there anyone on this blog with any ideas?????
I am ready to spend time and resources to make KC (all of them from Maleng to Sims) stand up and be accountable.
Posted by: Chris on November 10, 2005 11:12 AMJust want to know if there is any semblance of fairness here at all...
Posted by: Frustrated Voter on November 10, 2005 11:13 AMThe election contest was a civil proceeding and no evidence of criminal fraud was introduced. And the R's didn't do the digging that Stefan has done.
He has posted photographs of the evidence of fraud. You may hide your eyes but the evidence is there for all to see. There was a substantial amount of election official fraud and voter fraud. It has not been cleaned up.
Wouldn't you agree that it would be good to have an official investigation by Maleng so that Stefan can be proved wrong and the reputations of those you hold dear can be restored?
Posted by: BJ Gadfly on November 10, 2005 11:18 AMTake off your blinders please.....Look beyond the partisan politics for just one moment....
What do you see? Illegally registered voters. Doesnt matter how, where, who reported they were illegal, but they are because they didnt follow the law.
What part of that registration form don't you understand. Why does everything have to be so damn EASY. Let those who can't read, write, or understand english, learn it first, then give them right to vote. But for those who are too LAZY to fill it out correctly, screw em, and throw the book at them, for being lazy isnt an excuse to BREAK THE LAW.
Ok you can put your blinders back on. But I hope for just a second you got to look at what the rest of this state see's.
Thanks for your time.....
Posted by: Chris on November 10, 2005 11:20 AMStefan is absolutely welcome in Texas. But he can stay up in WA because I have Texas covered. We keep all the moonbats like you corraled in Austin where they can do little damage.
I travel to WA often on business. There are people I love in WA...great people. You will never be accused of being great. Now return to your mat, because it's almost naptime. You should be tired from rejoicing in the corruption of KCE.
Posted by: Danny on November 10, 2005 11:23 AMIllegal voters are bad and shouldn't be allowed to vote. People who register at the mailing address instead of their residence shouldn't be allowed to vote. They should be educated -- and hopefully fix their errors for future elections.
People who lie when they sign "under perjury of law" that they have "personal knowledge" who dont' have that knowledge should be prosecuted, no?
Posted by: Frustrated Voter on November 10, 2005 11:24 AMI am sure you have a compass, unfortunately it isn't pointed in the right direction!
I would not be willing to sign that oath, however; give me a few more post advocating breaking State laws and I would happy to.
Because the courts (Judge Bridges) didn't find deliberate organized fraud in King County, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Quite simply, it means that the Democrats didn't prove it.
As a matter of fact, in Judge Bridges decision, he slammed Dean Logan and everybody else who worked there. He also said that it was up to the people to change the system to get rid of the mistakes and errors.
Dean Logan deliberately changed policies in the elections department that has allowed all of these post office voters to stay registered. Dean Logan deliberately changed policies that has allowed almost 2000 people in King County to be double registered. Actually it was a lot higher. He ordered staff NOT to check for current registrations when they processed new registration forms which caused thousands of duplicate registrations.
He is creating his own nightmare by his careless disregard for Washington State Laws. I have zero sympathy for him. As a matter of fact, I think we need a demonstration for honest elections outside of the building where they have the canvassing board meeting!
Posted by: sgmmac on November 10, 2005 11:26 AMAmazing how elections that Republicans lose are based on fraud and corruption (never proven, even when sued) but somehow the ones they win are without such (hmm...).
Face it...people here don't like republican ideas. Isn't that enough?
No, must be cheating involved...you must wonder how any thinking person woudln't liek your ideas. Well the majority don't here.
And the majority don't nationwide .... but that is another issue...
Posted by: Frustrated Voter on November 10, 2005 11:27 AMVoting itself will never be perfect. The scariest thing for the republicans woudl be to win control in KC. ASSUMING (huge assumption here) that they would be willing to afford themselves the same scrutiny that they are putting forward, they would all be run out of office, sued, called frauds, etc.
The fiasco of singing under perjury of personal knowledge shows how out of control the party is with respect to the very things they lambast the democrats about.
Still no answer to my question...is there any person here who supports prosecuting Shelton but not prosecuting the KCRE for the perjury they admitted to?
Anyone? Any real sense of fairness anywhere here? Third time I'm asking...
Posted by: Sgmmac on November 10, 2005 11:31 AMI am sorry for the error.
Posted by: Frustrated Voter on November 10, 2005 11:32 AMIf ignorance is bliss, King County must be the happiest place in the world to live (even happier than Disney Land!).
Posted by: Brian C. on November 10, 2005 11:35 AMKing County is very good at not releasing documents under public disclosure requests. They have spent millions paying out in lawsuits because of it. What a way to spend tax payer dollars, huh?
Stefan did prove it and the evidence is in the archives. YOU can find visual proof of voter fraud by clicking on the articles in the archive buttons on the right side of your screen.
Posted by: sgmmac on November 10, 2005 11:37 AMRead the perjury laws. Her personal knowledge consisted of determining that the addresses were not residential (something that Logan is charged with doing but he doesn't want to). When she found that she was wrong she corrected the record. That is not perjury.
Now when people knowingly put a incorrect residential addresses on their registration forms and swear that the information is correct, they have committed felonies unless they really believe that they live at the phony addresses. That is not a mistake - it's a lie.
When an election official knowingly violates election law, that is a felony. Directing that ballots for incorrectly registered voters be counted is a felony. Counting provisional ballots when it is known that an absentee ballot for the same person has already been counted is a felony. Have you looked at any of the evidence that Stefan has gathered? Don't you think it justifies an official investigation?
Posted by: BJ Gadfly on November 10, 2005 11:39 AMDon't use my name!
Posted by Sgmmac at November 10, 2005 11:31
You typed it wrong and the by the way, Dummy, when you pass your cusor over the name it lists your email address mailto:harrylesonusa@hotmail.com
Posted by: sgmmac on November 10, 2005 11:42 AMsgmmac = SGM McWilliams
I am Retired Army!
30 years!
And I do know what oaths mean, because I have raised my right hand many times.............
Posted by: sgmmac on November 10, 2005 11:45 AMYes that should be investigated. Would be nice to see what proof Stefan offers about his certainty of the events he alleges.
What the KCRE did is perjury. Can't be clearer. Sad that you let partisanship remove the efficacy of your arguments.
I can sum up your position:
EVERYTHING democrats do in king county is fraud, corrupt and illegal.
EVERYTHING republicans do in king county is honest, above board and legal.
Let the courts' rulings not matter. Let signed, perjurous statements not matter.
It's all about republicans good; democrats bad.
Truth is THEY ARE BOTH BAD. I admit it. Mistakes and corruption exist. ON BOTH SIDES.
No side has a monopoly...and the worst thing is when republicans run on integrity and honesty...just look at our white house, senate and house leadership to see what that is the biggest crock ouit there.
Posted by: Frustrated Voter on November 10, 2005 11:45 AMEVERYTHING democrats do in king county is fraud, corrupt and illegal.
EVERYTHING republicans do in king county is honest, above board and legal.
Let the courts' rulings not matter. Let signed, perjurous statements not matter.
It's all about republicans good; democrats bad.
I say:
We finally have a lefty who understands!
At what point would you consider willfull neglect to be fraud?
FACT: KC was abundantly aware of this issue.
FACT: KC had a year to fix the issue.
FACT: KC consciously chose not to fix the issue.
FACT: The number of illegal votes was 10X larger than Gregoire's margin of victory.
FACT: Not putting your residential address on voter registration is illegal.
FACT: Ignorance of the law does not absolve anyone of complying with it.
FACT: Elections officials are sworn to uphold the law.
What a sucker. I think Frustrated might actually be Mary Mapes . . .
Posted by: starboardhelm on November 10, 2005 12:09 PM"what proof Stefan offers about his certainty of the events he alleges". Is that even a sentence? He was THERE, dummy! There were witnesses. And how can you offer proof of his certainty? It's like trying to prove a negative. Stop thinking in oxymorons. Posted by: katomar on November 10, 2005 12:10 PM
I don't think EVERYTHING dems do is fraud and I don't think EVERYTHING reps do is great, I just think that the evidence Stefan has produced prove beyond a reasonable doubt that many democrats are committed to committing and encouraging fraud. Dems may legitimately win King County Executive office or other offices, but they did not legitimately win the Gov's race. The judge's ruling was not that Gregoire won, he was very clear that there was no evidence that she actually won. The judge simply said that KCE f'ed up everything so badly that there can be no way of telling who won. Given that KCE is controlled by dems, I wonder which way their "errors" went.
What Stefan is doing is trying to shine a light on the problems with KCE so that they are not repeating again. What is wrong with that???
It's very similar to the NYTimes and the Washington Post making a noble effort to determine who won the FL vote in 2000 by recounting all the ballots themselves. Those two liberal newspapers determined that Bush in fact won. I'm glad they did the recount themselves (rather than a rep or independent group) so that the rest of us can be comfortable that he won fair and square (unlike Gregoire).
Posted by: Frustrated more than you on November 10, 2005 12:20 PMYou nailed it! I think liberals have a tough time in Washington, becuase all they can see is gray, and not just in the winter! What a boring way to go thorugh life. Posted by: katomar on November 10, 2005 12:35 PM
I've said it before, liberals always try to find equity in wrong-doing to justify their wrong-doing. The arguement is shallow because it's usually a matter of scale, with Dems far outdoing Reps in severity and numbers of transgressions. Also, where was all this concern for integrity when Clinton was Prez?
None of the GOP boo-boo's on their illegal voters list have taken away anyone's right to vote, none have affected the election of the Governor, none have resulted in any false prosecutions. So RELAX liberals! Posted by: Scott C on November 10, 2005 12:43 PM
We will keep speaking truth, even while it makes liberals cringe, since their side of it depends on distortion and hiding/ignorance of the laws.
Posted by: Misty on November 10, 2005 12:54 PMYou really have some nerve coming here and talking about poisoning the process. It was the DEAD voters, FELON voters that poisoned the process. You are but a troll for the corrupt tammany hall machine that is King County Democrat Party.
And we will most certainly NOT leave. We will stay here and reproduce until we outnumber you.
Now go back to the equine anus troll. Be gone with you.
Posted by: pbj on November 10, 2005 12:55 PM- King County employees who's job it is to provide fair and accurate elections and who refuse to take the lead in fullfilling this responsibility.
- Certain members of the Democrat party who fight attempts to identify and correct election fraud.
- People who just want to sweep election fraud under the rug and pretend it never really happened.
- People who attack Stefan Sharkansky because he keeps the drumbeat going with example after example of election fraud.
If you don't like democracy, if you would just like to have your point of view rule all the time, then please leave and find a dictatorship that you find to your liking. May I suggest Cuba or perhaps communist China.
Posted by: PW on November 10, 2005 01:03 PMYes, sometimes 'stupid' is quite difficult to fix. Some say it can't be fixed... but here is hoping...
Posted by: Curtis Mohr on November 10, 2005 01:13 PMThe mistakes in the Republican voter registration challenges were NOT perjury. You're showing your ignorance of local laws and statutes.
It wasn't perjury because the record was corrected by them during the same legal action. They made statements. A small percentage of the statements were incorrect, and they corrected those statements on the record, in the same proceedings in which they were filed. This is not perjury and no court in WA State would consider it such.
Now, consider the statements made and actions performed by the Democrats involved. The incorrect statements have not been corrected nor rectified - they are still going on today.
Recognize the difference? If yes - welcome to the real world. If not - go pay your union dues and renew your union ID card.
Danny - You're absolutely correct. I grew up in Chicago. There was plenty of corruption, but at least people there have the huevos to take a position, stand by it and defend it. In Seattle, I have yet to meet a local yahoo who has the huevos to defend their illogical positions for longer than 3 seconds without changing the subject.
Posted by: Larry on November 10, 2005 01:29 PMIt was a stupid political maneuver by a bunch of people who have no idea what they're doing. It makes the Republican Party look mean and petty and takes time away from real issues, which is what the voters want to hear about.
People do not vote for whiners, which is what the Washington State Republican Party looks like now. Swing voters support people who want to compromise and get things done, not argue endlessly over ideological technicalities.
You people should all grow up. Until the Republicans learn to focus on issues instead of last minute technicalities, they will never win an election in King County.
Chris Vance and his minions should be sacked and those who want to focus on solutions like taxes, traffic, land use, waste management, and planning for the future need to take control of the party apparatus. Otherwise, Republicans are forever doomed in Washington State.
Now, stop your whining and try thinking for a change.
Posted by: Swifter on November 10, 2005 02:05 PMOtherwise, one side just beats down the other and acrimony rules the day. That is what doomed the Roman Empire and is what plagues every Latin American democracy today.
This isn't rocket science. It's just common sense.
Posted by: Swifter on November 10, 2005 02:16 PMYou're missing the larger picture: this has statewide implications. I suggest that unless Republicans insist on a clean, accurate election where election law is actually followed and enforced in King County (CLEARLY, WE DO NOT HAVE THAT; it's inarguable!), they will never win close statewide elections again.
Didn't you think it was wierd in 2000 when Slade lost and then Dino's situation came up. There is a REASON that WA voters got cheated out of their actual picks. We can't just allow that to happen. We mustn't let King county officials cheat their way into the choice THEY want, rather than let the state's voters determine the winner. Right now, we have the former. It couldn't be more obvious, and there's no reason in the world to accept an artificial loss ever again. None. Otherwise, that is the equivalent of banging one's head against the wall all day and believing that that will actually produce anything positive.
Posted by: Realist on November 10, 2005 02:45 PMAnd I suspect that a certain percentage of those P.O. Boxes are legitimate for one reason or another. Person forgot to put a mailing address, didn't want to, etc. Mistakes happen.
What I fear, though, is that a percentage no longer live in Washington state or King County and hare having mail forwarded either by the post office box store or a freind. These people may or may not be registered in other locations, either in Washington, other parts of the county or other states, and are therefore voting in two elections. Some might be using these boxes for other reasons, but are also getting a second ballot to vote twice.
Again, not saying that all, or even most, of these people are doing something like that, but they could be, and the law is pretty clear.
It should not have been the job of the GOP to ferret out such things at all, but King County has shown no interest in doing so. You can subscribe whatever motive you want, sloth, fraud, disinterest or incompetance. Perhaps even a combo. KCE should be looking at these things.
One of the reasons that the court challenge didn't work in the Gov's race is that the GOP didn't make many of these challenges prior to an election. That was one of the Dem gripes, that if you cared do much why did you wait until after the election to complain.
So the GOP complains before the election, and the gripe is that you're just picking on poor voters. Grow up.
The GOP is not going to find enough illegal votes in King to offset Sims or almost any other Dem for the forseeable future. It's a blue town. What they can do, though, is make the election more reliable by combing the voter rolls. I suspect that the Dems are doing the same thing in other parts of the state. And they should. The more fraud that's caught, the better.
I won't really feel like it's time to rest a bit until Logan is gone from KCREALS.
If Sims was politically smart, he'd ask Logan privately to resign and claim it was for personal reasons. That would go along way towards appeasing those who are still rightfully upset and it would help pave the way for any future goals for Sims, as he could offer a replacement who had already established bipartisan trust.
Someone who corrects a false statement AFTER IT IS APPARENT IT IS OR WILL BE EXPOSED cannot escape a perjury charge for so doing, BUT that's not really the issue here. The issue is whether a reasonable person examining the information the Republicans had, would have believed their statements to be true. I don't know upon what information the Republicans were basing their statements, but I would guess they had some reason for believing as they did.
Besides, since every illegally-cast vote disenfranchises a legitimate voter, and since the vast majority of erroneous challenges will be corrected, it would seem that even with a 10% false-accusation rate the Republicans' efforts would still result in far fewer people being disenfranchised than if none of the ballots were challenged.
Posted by: supercat on November 10, 2005 03:22 PMI am half inclined to agree with your earlier post - it is very important to discuss important political issues, and the preelection challenge of voter registrations did wind up making the republican party look petty. However:
Try to look at it from the Republicans' point of view. 90% of the 1000 or so challenged registrations were, in fact, illegal. Judge Bridges made it very clear in his ruling last spring that election law would be interpreted literally and rigidly - it was not sufficient for the republicans to present evidence that the majority of the votes that were cast in excess of voters came from heavily democratic precincts, and that the distribution of these excess votes across the precincts could not be explained by random chance; he held that an election challenger has to present evidence that individual voters voted fraudulently, and for whom these voters voted.
So, prior to this past election, the republicans had evidence of a far larger number of illegally registered voters than the difference in votes last November. What were they supposed to do about it? Nothing? They challenged the registrations in the manner provided by the law as it is written and as it was interpreted by Judge Bridges. But the press printed signs from democrats urging challenged voters to go correct the errors (that's fine) along with statements like "Republican activists are trying to prevent you from voting" (which is nonsense, but its nonsense that the majority of democrats around here are all too ready to believe). And then the media focused entirely on the 10% of challenged registrations that should not have been challenged, rather than the 90% that were legitimately challenged. So the political angle of the coverage in the press, and the spin from the democrats themselves, made the republicans look petty, not their actual behavior. But if they had done nothing, then they would have given up their right to challenge the registrations; they would have given up any hope that the election laws would be followed (and enforced) and that people who vote but are not legally registered, or vote twice, or vote for dead people, will be caught (or at least that their illegal ballots will be detected and discarded).
In essence, you are telling us that in order to be popular, we have to just let democrat voters cheat, and if we want to win elections, accept the fact that we have to win by larger margins of legal votes than that by which democrat candidates have to win.
Now, if the situation were reversed and republicans were in the majority in Seattle, they ran King County elections incompetently, there were always more ballots cast in Issaquah and Seattle than voters registered there, and democrats usually lost close elections, and just before an election the democratic party found evidence of 1000 illegally registered rich capitalists, what would you want the democratic party to do? Nothing?
Posted by: srogers on November 10, 2005 03:57 PMhttps://moversguide.usps.com
If you do an INDIVIDUAL change of address, and use a private mail box facility as your OLD address, it will specifically say that it is a private mail box facility, and won't let you process it.
Likeise, If you do an INDIVIDUAL change of address, and use a business address as your OLD address, it will specifically say that it is a business address, and won't let you process it.
On the other hand, the post office software will accept totally non-existent addresses, so long as the street and block number actually exist. For example, if there is a 500 block of Third Avenue in Seattle 98104, any address in the 500-599 range of Third Avenue Seattle 98104 will be accepted, except for the specific numbers which have been identified as business addresses.
King County Elections should be able to use the same software. Any private mail box or business addresses could easily be flagged. The registration should then be cancelled, unless the voter proves that they REALLY live there.
At the same time, Lori Sotelo's list still contains a very significant number of private residences (many of which I have verified by the parcel locator function on the King County website), including many that are owned by the challenged voter. The King County GOP REALLY NEEDS TO DELETE ALL RESIDENTIAL ADDRESSES FROM THEIR LIST!
Some business addresses have legitimate voters. For example, many storage facilities have manager apartments on premises. And there are actually a few people who REALLY LIVE at their businesses.
Posted by: Richard Pope on November 10, 2005 04:18 PMI really REALLY hope you are not referring to King County's lawbreaking as a difference of opinion.
I don't know who the voters really selected in WA state. I do see that the process has been corrupted by criminals in King County and probably elsewhere. And I most fervently hope that the FBI is investigating this. It is outrageous that public officials can break the law repeatedly and experience no penalties.
Posted by: Bostonian on November 10, 2005 04:28 PMThe lesson of the Wenatchee contest was that it is virtually impossible under Washington statute to prove election fraud or misfeasance after the fact. The only protection we have is strict application of the laws governing registration and the actual voting process (as Stefan attempted to do as a poll judge). Why is it that the Democrats consistently oppose any attempt to enforce those laws as they have been written?
Posted by: Patrick on November 10, 2005 04:35 PMyou could use Medina as proof of where people read and obey the laws, versus WTO/hippies/dems who do not...
Posted by: righton on November 10, 2005 04:48 PMI disagree with a fairly significant point you make. IF the R's begin with their convictions, then recognize differences of opinion, then move towards compromise, then their convictions weren't worth a flip. They are either convictions or they aren't. Kind of like being sort of pregnant.
If you mean the R's should choose carefully which hill they are willing to die on, then I can agree. But NOT at the expense of compromising on true convictions.
Posted by: Danny on November 10, 2005 04:52 PMYou have convictions, and so do I, but I recognize that I don't know everything there is to be known, and I don't have all the answers to all the problems. Sometimes the Democrats know a thing or two. Most times I think they don't. The same applies to the Republicans. Smart politicians and smart officials know this.
The Islamic fundamentalists have what I would call rather intransigent positions and are completely unwilling to compromise. That's why we're at war. Legitimately so, on our side, as we were attacked.
Nobody who is truly evil thinks he is doing anything wrong. People who know that they might not have all the answers are also willing to listen to others, and that's where compromise is made, peace begins, and progress is made on all sides.
Posted by: Swifter on November 10, 2005 05:07 PMI have thought to myself, where could two people pick up the thousands of absentee ballots that were in those carts in order to bring them in to the post office? Are the people whose names are on those ballots unavailable to fill them out and mail them themselves?
Just wondering if anyone could explain this event?
It sure has me perplexed!
Posted by: GS on November 10, 2005 05:22 PMHere's their crime tip page:
https://tips.fbi.gov/
IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE!
IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE!
IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE!
Since when did ignorance of the law become an excuse for committing a felony? Gosh these Dem's are so pathetic. Where were they in grade school.
Posted by: Bob on November 10, 2005 05:49 PMDoing it three days before the election however, as a matter of election tactics, is a massive blunder.
Vance and his team shouldn't resign because they were legally wrong. They were technically correct. They should resign because they were politcally inept and it was a stupid move, completely uncorrectable three days before the vote. They were crucified in the press and just minted more Democrat votes.
I don't support party leaders who don't know how to win elections and its clear at this point that Mr. Vance does not know how to win. He needs to go.
Posted by: Swifter on November 10, 2005 06:03 PMAs one who was born in one of the former Confederate States, I sure am glad that the North didn't compromise its convictions to avoid a war with the South.
Surely there are things worth fighting for AND dying for?
Posted by: Danny on November 10, 2005 06:37 PMYou keep reiterating the point that challenging the registrations was legitimate, but doing it three days before the election, as an election tactic, is wrong. I haven't seen or read anything that proves that this scenario is true - the democrats said it loud and often, but that doesn't make it true. Can you prove the timing was a tactic? Do you know that there were not other reasons for the late challenge, for example, complying with the legal process, or fact gathering, or fact checking (which obviously wasn't completed before the challenge was issued)? If the party had all the information needed a month or two ago, then I agree that filing the challenge late was a stupid move. If not, you're blowing smoke, despite your otherwise rather thoughtful opinions. Posted by: sorgers on November 10, 2005 06:40 PM
King County has been stonewalling the release of information requested through proper legal channels. You would know that if you have been following the Shark's adventures of trying to get various records. And the only reason many consider challenging the illegitimate registrations right before an election a problem is because of the usual alarmist reporting of the two liberal lapdogs, the PI and Times. The "Sky is falling!!" approach is getting real old and is one reason both papers are losing subscribers.
However, you should take pride in associating yourself with those who not only look the other way when it comes to funny voting, but who also have solutions to the examples you mentioned. The Dems have never met a problem they can't solve with "just one more" tax hike; land should be used by everyone but the rightful owner; public transportation should be built for the masses (while the politicians themselves drive around in private vehicles); and waste management issues will just go away if one doesn't build new landfills.
Posted by: Burdabee on November 10, 2005 06:43 PM
You have the best of intentions, but you resemble nothing so much as a dog fetching bones that someone else has thrown. Just as the dog will get tired before the stick thrower, you will tire before they do. It's a whole lot easier to mouth nonsense than to refute it.
I suppose it could be a help in clarifying what you think and why. Consider that what you're chasing is more likely a dog byproduct than a bone.
The fact that David Irons lost, that I-912 lost, and that most of the Republican agenda lost, sort of underscores the point. Spreading resentment among the electorate at the last minute, even for what are technically good legal reasons, puts your campaign on the road to defeat. Quod est demonstratum.
Fraud or not, the Republicans lost the last election in Washington State and they lost the election on Tuesday. If my employees lost the way these guys did, they would be looking for new jobs.
Burdabee, I'm not for looking the other way. I'm for raising the issue at the right time. The right time is now, a year away from the next election. Not three days before.
Do you folks not understand human nature at all?
Posted by: Swifter on November 10, 2005 06:57 PMYou are scrupulously avoiding my question. If the GOP had no choice to challenge the registrations months ago, but had only the choice between challenging the registrations when they did, or not challenging them at all, which choice is the politically proper choice? If they made the correct ethical choice, why wasn't that made clear in the press, in which case there would not have been such negative fall out.
Nor does the election result prove your case. Irons lost because too many people made him out to be a mother beater in bed with George Bush, and Bush is a liability in this city right now. I-330 lost because the lawyers effective lied about its potential effects and appealed to the base envy and emotionalism that drives the democratic majority here. The docs spent a lot of money and got out the message as well as could be expected, but it wasn't enough to get bast the bleeding hearts.
Finally, do not think that I'm ignorant of the mistakes the republican party makes, or that I am lockstep in agreement with all of its platforms. I simply do not think your antipathy in this case is warranted - it should be directed at the press and the democrats for distorting and lying about what the republicans were trying to accomplish, and the idiotic electorate that believed them.
Posted by: srogers on November 10, 2005 07:14 PMWhere is the post office?
Posted by: sgmmac on November 10, 2005 07:35 PMSomeone - Please tell me - WHY on earth would someone believe they were eligible to vote in King County, Washington when they are *citizens* of Canada, France and Israel??
Make these people pay for MY vote that they erased with their illegal vote. Make our election system solid so this crap can never happen again!
Posted by: Deborah on November 10, 2005 07:36 PMWTF?
Posted by: Deborah on November 10, 2005 07:41 PMKeep pressing the US Attorney, the FBI and US AG for an FBI investigation. Stefan will be a big asset to them - his ducks are in a row. For the sake of integrity, restored trust by all people and the LAW - this needs to be a full scale investigation. It is not too late for an FBI investigation of the 2004 election - it needs to be done and don't take NO for an answer ! Those who don't want an investigation - its clear that they are left-leaning kool aid drinking creeps, who I would not trust any farther than they could be thrown - no wonder the morality of urban culture is going down the sh***er.
Posted by: KS on November 10, 2005 07:56 PMKeep up the great work, Stefan. You're the new and improved Tim Eyman upgrade we've been looking for all these years.
Hey Srogers, way to use the word "scrupulously". Doof.
I also believe that we need to have public transportation to transport those people that 'want' to use that type of transportation. I believe that it is a good thing. I also believe that it is more important that we take care of the population in providing a better plan to handle the NEEDS of the people of this and other counties. This NEED is for more road capacity and better integration of any public transportation system to this road capacity.
I believe that home owners own their land. They can do with it as they see fit. (Yes Zoning laws do come into affect, just the CAO un-constitutional). I don't believe in paving under all that is green, but know that to be "progressive" one must embrace both industry and the environment.
(A side note) Those that live next to 520, think Eminent Domain. You're land is now the states. That stinks, but it is what is going to be best for the State, not just the county.
Also, until I can run....I will be looking to get an initiative on the ballot to stop Prevailing Wage for state/county/city contracts. This, and bunk environmental law suits, are killing the tax payer, our economy and country. Also, state tax on materials needed for state projects is gone. This is double dipping.
So wow, we may have to stop giving money to the "homeless". The "homeless" are not what we need to help. We need to help those that have had a problem and need a helping hand. Not those that want to be "taken care of". Socialism doesn't help, giving people the tools to succeed does. Those that don't want to succeed, they can die. I believe that is "Darwinism”….oh how does that play with the liberal mindset.
Please keep me in mind as I begin to gather my team to challenge the corruption, I will be un-popular to the elite media. They love to say what is best for the ‘surfs’ in society, as long as they can live their champagne and caviar dreams. Ron allows corruption though Ron "believes" that he is correct and doing what is best for HIS citizens. He doesn’t know it is wrong. (Another side note) many people throughout time have thought the same. However, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and even Robert Byrd (US Senator) thought they were correct in their views. I'm not saying Ron is like them, but that his beliefs will kill the state we love.
Thanks for you support.
I also read where the Republicans intend to go ahead with 1600 mail box voter challenges....
I don't think Lori Sotelo has anything to worry about....She has 1600 pieces of solid evidence that more than assures probable cause to serve these challenges. The 150 voters who were served in error will just have to accept her apology.
If those 150 voters want to have a beef with anyone - it should be with King County elections for creating the probable cause in the first place...by accepting registrations from mail box voters....
Posted by: Deborah on November 11, 2005 01:49 AMMaybe the guys worked at a mailbox place and they were simply carrying the daily outgoing mail over to the post office?
That would be the good explanation,
the bad explanation would be that they were stuffing the ballot box with fake absentees
I find it strange that MSM media is only reporting less than 200 bothered to fix their addresses.......
Posted by: sgmmac on November 11, 2005 07:45 AMYou argue that Vance “antagonized the electorate,” when in fact the electorate is so thoroughly prejudiced against common sense by the MSM and the power of state and local government that such antagonism is negligible at best. If Paul Barendt had done precisely the same thing no "antagonized conservative electorate" would matter. Further, the fact that Vance told the truth as soon as he knew it should matter more than anything else. No matter how much you spin this issue, no one will ever be able to overcome the ignorance and gullibility of an electorate that would buy into the lies told them during this campaign, or the misplaced nature of their mock outrage. You seem to share in it.
Quit pretending that you know better than anyone else, you clearly don’t. You conflate the rise and fall of the Roman Empire with what “plagues every Latin American nation” by saying that they both suffered from an inability to compromise. Neither is true. The Roman Empire failed partly because Roman pacifists allowed the empire to be over-run by the barbarians, and largely because it lacked a unified sustaining principle (a constitutional framework) of laws binding its citizens together. In place of such a unifying code the empire depended upon benevolent leaders, and such leaders ceased to arise. Failures in Latin American nations are mostly attributable to socialist communism. Such governments suffer from the ultimate of compromise gone berserk, where consensus matters more than fundamental rights. These communist influences are decreasing but still alive and well as exhibited recently in Brazil. Compromise had little or nothing to do with either situation, and your version of “common sense” rings hollow.
Danny is right about compromise, and its relationship to true convictions. Once again, I don’t know what books (if any) you are reading about history, but you don’t know much about history. The Civil War was not fought because of an inability to compromise. Quite to the contrary, it was fought despite compromises that finally strained beyond the necessity to sustain fundamental convictions. The abject failure of a large group of people (the South) to accept the truth—that slavery is evil--could no longer sustain continuing compromises of fundamental human rights. The South’s withering economic failures were due to a rigid inflexibility, and Lincoln was correct to force the issue without further compromise.
You say that, ”People who know that they might not have all the answers are also willing to listen to others, and that's where compromise is made, peace begins, and progress is made on all sides.” Fine, nice sentiment. The Democrats are completely wrong on nearly all issues, and if you think otherwise, compromise with them. In the mean time it doesn’t take much common sense to recognize the difference between Vance telling the truth when it hurts, and the Democrats openly lying and justifying rank idiocy whenever. Then you say that challenging illegitimate registrations three days before the election, as a matter of election tactics, is a massive blunder. Sometimes tactics must surrender to integrity.
By the way, what if Chris Vance stayed quiet as you suggest, and the friggin’ Democrats found the mistake? Wise up.
You seem to forget that Dino Rossi won the 2004 Gubernatorial election with Chris Vance and Lori Sotelo in place. I grant that you are correct in saying that Lori Sotelo blew it big and those in the party made big mistakes, but Chris Vance did the right thing and winning elections at all cost is a liberal Democrat imperative, not a conservative one.
Perhaps the Republicans knew that they would take some political heat for trying to clean up the elections, but went ahead and did their duty anyway.
Do you have some suggestions on how to find and correct all of the election problems in a more politically beneficial way please elaborate.
By the way, why aren't any King County Democrats doing anything to clean up King County election problems? The silence for this political party gives them a large black eye in my opinion. I will support any party that wlll vigorously support trustworthy elections. The Democrat party hasn't done a thing to improve the elections. In fact, seem to be taking action to make things much worse.
The Republicans and others for clean elections need to keep pressing forward and get the FBI in here to investigate and use whatever means they can to get this on the FBI radar screen.
OR press on with the formation of Cascade County and diminish the power of King County. Its time has come !
Posted by: KS on November 12, 2005 01:01 PM"Address where you get your mail"
"Address where you live"
missing on form:
address where you get free food, schooling and medical care on someone else's dime without working;
address where your free-handout-industry advocate lives;
address where you can sponsor and house more illegal aliens;
address where the fool (law-abiding taxpayer-benefactor) lives who tolerates all this mess!
Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on November 13, 2005 08:49 AM