November 11, 2005
Let the Feast Begin

The voters killed the monorail three days ago, but rather than giving it a proper burial some city councilors want to feast on the carcass. The Seattle Times has the proper reaction: Monorail assets aren't for the taking.

To paraphrase Winston Churchill, the vote to kill the monorail was not the end, or even the beginning of the end. It was just the end of the beginning. Now comes the battle to reduce our car tab taxes back to their pre-monorail levels.

Posted by Andy MacDonald at November 11, 2005 09:41 AM | Email This
Comments
1. If there is one thing we all learned from the monorail it is that seattle politicians cannot be trusted with money.

I've not seen so much money wasted since the dot com bust.

You don't need million dollar consultants, high end offices and over priced computer systems to build a monorail.

The monorail IS the right solution for Seattle. The problem is the seattle snobocrates are not the right people to build it.

Posted by: vince on November 11, 2005 09:56 AM
2. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:02 AM
3. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:02 AM
4. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:02 AM
5. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
6. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
7. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
8. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
9. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
10. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
11. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
12. Beats a bond issue to buy the land, doesn't it? Lots of that property could be converted to a bike trail couldn't it?

Why sell it? Government does a better job of land developing than the private sector, doesn't it? Just talk to your local politician, especially the rude and arrogant ones.

Posted by: swatter on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
13. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
14. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
15. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
16. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
17. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
18. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
19. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
20. Hey I found a pony!

And I haven't wet my pants even one time today!

Posted by: Tim Goddard on November 11, 2005 10:03 AM
21. Beats a bond issue to buy the land, doesn't it? Lots of that property could be converted to a bike trail couldn't it?

Why sell it? Government does a better job of land developing than the private sector, doesn't it? Just talk to your local politician, especially the rude and arrogant ones.

Posted by: swatter on November 11, 2005 10:05 AM
22. Hopefully, with two board members elected expressly to shut the project down, the Seattle Silly Council will not be able to get their grubby hands on the assets.

The fact is, the only authority city government had over the monorail was in granting it the permits needed to construct. The monorail agency exists outside the city government and thus the Silly Council and the Mayor have no say over what they do with assets or debt.

Any attempt by them to hijack the assets or tax revenue should be met with massive law suites. These people need to be kept in their place, or they will take everything you have.

Posted by: BananaLand (aka Iguana) on November 11, 2005 10:31 AM
23. CLOWNstein and the other LEFTIST PINHEADS including the MSM are attempting EXACTLY the spin I expected from the CLOWNS.
Current SOS numbers show:
STATEWIDE(incl KingCo)===== I-912 is defeated by +91,835
KINGCO ===== I-912 is defeated by +110,325
Other Counties (combined)== I-912 PASSES by +18,490

Gregoire and the MSM claim STATEWIDE SUPPORT????????
Bullsh**!!
Plus there was an incredible amount of Republican Business interest support on defeating I-912 out of desperation to do SOMETHING! These folks will NEVER vote for Gregoire in 2008. NEVER!!! And when the folks STATEWIDE (incl KingCo) see that nothing improves the next 3 years….that this is a bait-and-switch list of projects…..and it is clear that this 9-1/2 cents was a drop in the bucket and they want much, much more……GREGOIRE WILL PLUMMET!!!!!!!!!!!
The anti-912 folks & Gregoire OVERPROMISED!!!! And will be held accountable in 2008.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 11, 2005 10:41 AM
24. What gets me is that when they resell the property, they will sell it for much more than what they paid for it, and about the price the people that had the land stolen from felt it was worth when it was stolen.

Posted by: swatter on November 11, 2005 10:43 AM
25. Gregoire DISAPPEARED on I-912 until the $3 million to defeat it worked it’s magic. What leadership specifically are the CLOWNS talking about??? The fear-mongering regarding the AWV which won’t start construction until 2009???? And then take 7-8 years????
I’ll bet it doesn’t start until 2011….the LEFTIST PINHEADS will spend years and billions arguing about the ridiculous TUNNEL of LOVE….that pads the pockets of Seattle’s elite developers like Paul Allen.
Watch the bait-and-switch….it’s coming.
Start the projects….the HUGE tax increases to finish them.
The only thing is, the next round of HUGE tax increases will be defeated. Then Gregoire will have half-finished projects to explain. It will be clear by November 2008 that Gregoire massively overpromised and mislead voters. She will be defeated by Rossi or McKenna.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 11, 2005 10:53 AM
26. I like the McKenna part

Posted by: swatter on November 11, 2005 11:10 AM
27. Look for Queen Christine to propose an income tax in the next 12 months, perhaps 6 months if she feels emboldened enough.

Posted by: swassociates on November 11, 2005 11:32 AM
28. I bet January.

A liberal, but one with some common sense (if that is possible, but I think he is more conservative) and I were talking about the next thing will be an income tax. He said he voted against 912 because if it wasn't defeated we would have an income tax and he is really opposed to one.

Since we had Carlson on and we had plenty of discussion at work, I let is go on the 912.

I said I was for an income tax if and only if the sales tax disappeared entirely. My big worry is that if you have an income tax and a tiny sales tax, the sales tax won't stay tiny for long, if you get my drift.

Posted by: swatter on November 11, 2005 11:55 AM
29. The Monorail head Ms. Hill was such a whinner!!Casting blame every wherelse but her!! thanks to the Nobles & Goldstien!!! we need to find a different GOP leader! so we can find more solid candidates!!

Posted by: Laurie on November 11, 2005 11:57 AM
30. Bananaland said;

"Any attempt by them to hijack the assets or tax revenue should be met with massive law suites. These people need to be kept in their place, or they will take everything you have. "

Since when have any Washington judges ruled in favor of the people over the liberal dem elites?

Posted by: Jeffro on November 11, 2005 01:16 PM
31. Regardless of what you think about the Monorail (which has been killed so no need to be threatened by it), doesn't it make sense for the city to try to retain hard to obtain right of ways and property, at least until it is determined there is no good use for it?

I realize that properties sold could reduce the debt, but should the city wish to buy that property back, assuming that is even possible, it would surely cost vastly more than it does now.

To just get rid of it in a fire sale would be shortsighted.

Posted by: Daniel K on November 11, 2005 01:17 PM
32. Never could understand why the price for the monorail was so high, other than incompetent leadership that is.
Wasn't most of it planned to go through publicly owned right of ways anyway. All we're talking about is concrete support beams with tracks laid on top and a train that runs along it for 14 miles.
For the prices I read which were mentioned, they could have built 22 Safeco fields; which if laid side-by-side stretch about two or three miles.
Good thing the folks in charge now weren't around when the Denny party landed in the 1850's. We'd still be having hearings and studies about whether to build our cabins out of ceder bark, fir logs or clam shells.

Posted by: Reporterward on November 11, 2005 01:33 PM
33. Daniel K.,

Nice post (seriously). But I disagree (shocked, I know). The property "taken" for the rail should be sold, absent an extant plan. Regardless, the private sector will be infinitely more effective and efficient at putting the land to use.

Posted by: Danny on November 11, 2005 01:55 PM
34. Danny - The private sector as a steward for the public good?

City properties are a huge asset that in the future would be impossible for a city to afford to buy.

I'm quite sure any number of buyers could find a way to put the land to use, I don't think that's in dispute.

Posted by: Daniel K on November 11, 2005 02:00 PM
35. Yes, Daniel K. The private sector as a steward of the public good. The private sector is singularly well-suited. The problem is this: You and I don't agree on what represents the public good. Mass transit, for instance, is a public good. Mass transit run by morons who don't know how to run a popsicle stand, much less a transit system is a public travesty.

Cuba and North Korea are examples of state-driven economies, versus market-driven economies. I'll take the U.S. and British economies over those any day.

Posted by: Danny on November 11, 2005 02:08 PM
36. Danny - So when we might again need property in the "stewardship" of the private sector, perhaps for mass transit, the private sector will give it up for the public good at a "it isn't important that we maximize profit on the sale" price?

Posted by: Daniel K on November 11, 2005 02:16 PM
37. If I owned one of those properties that was "taken," I would immediately file a lawsuit to force the Monorail Moonbats to sell me BACK my property at the exact same price that they paid when they did the "taking."

Posted by: sgmmac on November 11, 2005 02:59 PM
38. Real estate speculation ought not be the business of government. The property was purchased for a specific purpose. That purpose no longer exists. Sell the property and stick with the ligitimate functions of government (which Seattle manages to screw up anyway).

Posted by: Huey on November 11, 2005 05:05 PM
39. I was not entirely against an income tax while we in Washington were not accorded a federal tax deduction for our sales tax which, essentially, amounted to the same as other states' income tax.

Well, we have it now (although there is discussion about reoving it).

If we do go to an income tax, then two things must happen:

1. The sales tax goes away
2. The only way to raise the income tax is by a supermahority vote of the tax paying citizens.

Posted by: Rascal on November 11, 2005 06:20 PM
40. I was not entirely against an income tax while we in Washington were not accorded a federal tax deduction for our sales tax which, essentially, amounted to the same as other states' income tax.

Well, we have it now (although there is discussion about reoving it).

If we do go to an income tax, then two things must happen:

1. The sales tax goes away
2. The only way to raise the income tax is by a supermajority vote of the tax paying citizens.

Posted by: Rascal on November 11, 2005 06:20 PM
41. I was not entirely against an income tax while we in Washington were not accorded a federal tax deduction for our sales tax which, essentially, amounted to the same as other states' income tax.

Well, we have it now (although there is discussion about reoving it).

If we do go to an income tax, then two things must happen:

1. The sales tax goes away
2. The only way to raise the income tax is by a supermajority vote of the tax paying citizens.

Posted by: Rascal on November 11, 2005 06:20 PM
42. The monorail property must be sold to retire the debt and the monorail board must dissolve as soon as possible in order to fulfill the intent of the initiative. The MVET must be eliminated as soon as possible.

NO on any income tax under all circumstances. There is no bigger drag on a growing economy than an income tax. It's simple math and economics.

Posted by: Swifter on November 11, 2005 07:01 PM
43. If there is a demand for mass transit, Daniel K., the private sector will meet the demand. Empty buses prove that there is no real demand for mass transit...just a utopian dream.

Posted by: Danny on November 11, 2005 10:52 PM
44. How damn long should it take to dissolve the Monorail Project? No more than a month or two.

Sell the property it accumulated and then fire everyone still left on the project.


How damn much is this hideous money sucking monster still going to drain out of us before it is put down for good? The figures I have seen is the Monorail has something like $100 million in debts that would be offset by $60 million of property sales. So we're at least $40 million in the hole, and if the figure of $1 million collected from car tabs every month is correct, we wil be paying for this worthless, fugly turkey until sometime in 2009!

There's only one question left: Why aren't the members of the Monorail Board doing hard time at the Monroe Reformatory?

Posted by: Bill K. on November 11, 2005 11:28 PM
45. Anyone who chooses to live in Seattle deserves what he/she gets. Now, if you are actively trying to move out of there, you have my admiration.

Posted by: doug on November 13, 2005 02:44 PM
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