If you live in Washington state, you certainly do. We voters were told, again and again that, if we voted to repeal the gas tax slipped through the legislature, then the Alaskan Way Viaduct in Seattle would fall down, and so would the 520 bridge across Lake Washington. When that didn't seem to move enough voters, the opponents of the initiative began to claim that projects paid for by the gas tax would reduce congestion — a claim they had not made at the beginning of the campaign.
Yesterday, the Seattle Times, which opposed the initiative, published this matter-of-fact article on what the Washington Department of Transportation plans to do with the new gas tax money. Do they plan to begin work immediately on these hazardous structures? No.
The defeat of Initiative 912 unlocks an $8.5 billion tax package and clears the way for hundreds of transportation projects around the state. But don't expect work to start soon on the Alaskan Way Viaduct or other multibillion-dollar projects in the Seattle area.
The state and city are still arguing over whether to rebuild the viaduct or replace it with a tunnel.
. . .
With $2 billion dedicated to it, the viaduct is the biggest project funded by the gas tax. The state has said that if the city can't come up with another $1 billion for the tunnel, it will proceed with rebuilding the viaduct.State Transportation Secretary Doug MacDonald said he hasn't given the city a deadline to raise the extra money, but a chunk may come Friday when the Port of Seattle Commission is expected to consider whether to contribute $200 million to the tunnel.
A cynic — and I try not to be one — would have to conclude that Secretary MacDonald does not think repair or replacement of the viaduct is urgent.
What project is first on the list? The article answers that question, too.
The first project to be completed with the new tax money is an $800,000 bicycle lane on Potato Hill Bridge crossing Interstate 90 in Moses Lake.
Which should do wonders for congestion in this area. (A digression on bicycle lanes: I like to ride a bicycle for exercise and sometimes use the bicycle lanes in this area. But I think we could serve bicycle riders far better if we built these lanes separate from the highways, where possible.)
Editorial writers often bemoan the cynicism of the voters. Sometimes, as this article demonstrates, that cynicism is all too warranted.
Cross posted at Jim Miller on Politics.
(I'm not the only one who noticed these points. So did letter writer Jim Hardtke.)
Posted by Jim Miller at November 11, 2005 02:14 PM | Email ThisWhile the situation is unclear as to the real risk of the viaduct, I don't think anyone (outside of Carlson, maybe) can honestly say that it won't fail if/when we have another earthquake. Of course, that could be 2 months from now or 20 years from now.
However, if nothing gets done about it and we DO have an earthquake and it DOES fail, I am sure the authors of this board will be first in line to scream about why nothing was done. It is a lose-lose situation for the state.
The viaduct is a STATE highway. So if the city can't pull together the funding for a tunnel, then tough. The rebuilding/replacement needs to proceed ASAP.
While there may be no stated deadline, I think when the state is ready to move, they are going to move with or without the city.
Posted by: Eric on November 11, 2005 02:25 PMScare tactics....The Sky is falling....The Sky is falling...
So where's the Beef DOT?
Posted by: GS on November 11, 2005 02:29 PMGet over it.
Posted by: Smoking in the Boys' Room on November 11, 2005 02:52 PMYep, that's your tax dollars at work! [/sarcasm]
Posted by: Darth Dogbert on November 11, 2005 02:59 PMDoes anyone really beleive that the state will start work on the 520 bridge or the viaduct without yet another gas tax increase?
Posted by: Eirik on November 11, 2005 03:01 PMUrban voters handed them a very nice ball point pen.
Exactly what motivation does the legislature have to solve ANY problem w/out raising taxes?
Bend over Washington...here comes another round of a democrat controlled legislature in 2006.
Posted by: Andy on November 11, 2005 03:09 PMThey'll be back.
Posted by: JCM on November 11, 2005 03:09 PMThe question is whether or not the public will allow it (remember, were talking about Seattle voters).
Personally, I don't care one whit what Le Mayor wants for the waterfront...as long as the rest of the state does not have to for it (beyond repairing the viaduct).
For the record, I ride bicycles A LOT. A bike lane over the Potato Hill Bridge makes me puke.
Posted by: Shaun on November 11, 2005 03:59 PMGregoire and the MSM claim STATEWIDE SUPPORT????????
Bullsh**!!
Plus there was an incredible amount of Republican Business interest support on defeating I-912 out of desperation to do SOMETHING! These folks will NEVER vote for Gregoire in 2008. NEVER!!! And when the folks STATEWIDE (incl KingCo) see that nothing improves the next 3 years….that this is a bait-and-switch list of projects…..and it is clear that this 9-1/2 cents was a drop in the bucket and they want much, much more……GREGOIRE WILL PLUMMET!!!!!!!!!!!
The anti-912 folks & Gregoire OVERPROMISED!!!! And will be held accountable in 2008.
Levees in New Orleans (Newly elected official - 'We can wait. The levees won't fail on my watch')
Viaduct in Seattle (Newly Elected Fraudoire - 'Gee, I don't know what to do...Hmm..What color should the replacement for the viaduct be?'
The decision should have been an easy opportunity evaluation with business case and presented to the public as part of the election. But our officials are so lame that I doubt they even know how to spell business case let alone build one.
Posted by: timman on November 11, 2005 06:03 PMAS for the tunnel - Nickels is gonna get his way. There isn't anyone challenging him and as far as getting money goes, the $4 billion estimate is at least 2.5 times below the actual cost, so he'll take the $2 billion and get started, then leave it to someone else to find the money to finish it.
Seattle and King County deserve what they vote for - bad government. It's too bad though that the rest of the state needs to suffer as a result.
Posted by: BananaLand (aka Iguana) on November 11, 2005 06:10 PMSo where's the Beef DOT?
I apologize for asking the obvious, but what kind of bicycle lane costs $800,000? Is there such an overwhelming need for a bicyle lane that cyclists are consistently lined up, waiting for hours on end just to cross this bridge because there is no bicyle lane?
Does anyone really beleive that the state will start work on the 520 bridge or the viaduct without yet another gas tax increase?
This wasn't about the projects- it was whether or not the legislature could start writing blank checks using human shields while crying that the sky is falling.
First of all, anyone who thinks that a tunnel to replace the viaduct can be done with merely $3 billion is certifiably nuts. But the leadership all know that.
This is just the beginning. This tax was never intended to relieve traffic congestion. My guess is that within a few years, things will be worse as part of a grand design to force people onto mass transit.
AS for the tunnel - Nickels is gonna get his way. There isn't anyone challenging him and as far as getting money goes, the $4 billion estimate is at least 2.5 times below the actual cost, so he'll take the $2 billion and get started, then leave it to someone else to find the money to finish it.
I have just one word for those who bought the anti-912 line...CHUMPS!!!!!
Thank you for yet again, summing up my opinion on this entire mess. Mr. Cynical, if I were drinking milk, it'd come out my nose!
Regards,
Shaun
All you can do now is hold WSDOT, Gregoire and the anti-912 crowd to their campaign rhetoric.
Did any of you see any improvement in traffic congestion TODAY???!
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?
I didn't. It appears it is worse!!
DAY 1----The 9-1/2 Cent GasTax Watch for improving traffic congestion. FAILURE!!!
WSDOT will be so forced to show some improvement that I'll bet they eventually open the HOV Lanes!!! And use that to take credit for shorter commute time!
Seattle LEFTIST PINHEADS==Lenin's USEFUL IDIOTS===CLOWNS!
Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 11, 2005 09:23 PMOH REALLY??
Leftists have a humorous, demented way of making issues that are very straight forward, abstruse and convoluted. I stand by every strident word I ever said in support of I-912, and this issue will manifest more and more liberal foolishness as time goes on. Several commentators during the recent campaign said that the 9.5 cent gas tax revenues--by law--can only be spent on transportation or transportation related projects. Oh really?? You mean the law that established the gas tax hike for emergency purposes? Come on, tell me that you’re kidding. Audits will show by this time next year (or there about) that huge chunks of the funds will be spent on projects that are neither remotely transportation nor transportation related projects. This is because those of us citizens who bought into the shallow rationale and outright lies told in opposition to I-912 are also friggin’ dumb enough to openly allow them to lie about anything else. A majority of our citizens will willingly let their money be spent for any specie of silliness Gregoire wants to fund because they TRUST her. Wow, how heart-warming indeed.
GET OVER IT
One knee-jerk liberal moron earlier in this thread said, "You lost. Get over it." I got over attempting to tease reason out of the liberal mindset a long while ago, it isn't possible, but our state (esp. King County) will not get over this for a very, very long time, and every time traffic clogs it will be another reminder that our fellow liberal citizens are too stupid to get the NOT subtle hint. As they continue to ignore real problems in favor of covering up their mismanagement and political payoffs, we will see more and more corruption, high taxes, and urban decay. None of this problem is going to improve, only worsen before we find the will to change.
APPEALS TO FEAR
Almost no real perspective has ever been provided by any responsible parties about natural disasters. As for earthquakes and associated collateral natural disasters, there is simply no such thing as a man-made earthquake-proof structure. The talk about earthquakes collapsing the Alaskan Way Viaduct is irresponsible at best for the simple reason that no matter what is ever built, it will not survive a magnitude 9 or better earthquake and the collateral disasters attendant to it. No matter what structure is put in its place, it will fail potentially causing loss of life. Such a magnitude event is widely expected by expert geologists in our area and more people will die in the Sumner, Auburn, Kent valley areas from lahars than the Alaskan Way system could ever hope to carry let alone kill.
Many, many more people will die in high rises and other structures in the downtown area. Many hill side structures will slide onto others killing their occupants. Liquefaction, floods, power outages, traffic accidents, and numerous other things are more serious in terms of loss of life than the Alaskan Way Viaduct. This is not to say do nothing; rather it says, think about the problem rationally, and solve it accordingly. We can do some things to ameliorate the damage of natural disasters but we can never prevent loss of life or property damage on a huge scale. Had it passed, I-912 would have had no affect whatsoever on any decisions about the Alaskan Way Viaduct. Nothing substantial other than fear-talk is being done today, and nothing will be done until more lies are told and more taxes are levied. Even then the priority will not be safety, but civic pride. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar and/or a fool, and the current rationale of fear based decision making is for fools and liars.
RANK HYPOCRICY
We shouldn’t be motivated by fear anyway, but by a thoughtful appreciation of practical realities. Our transportation problems stem from liberal schemes of social engineering that ignore facts and purport to solve problems backwards from fears of a hypothetical Malthusian apocalypse that is completely unfounded. It calls for over-emphasis on mass transit in areas where population densities cannot support them and it ignores real problems in favor of "Emergency Projects" like bicycle lanes in Moses Lake. In his campaign, Sims strolled purposefully through a bucolic rural setting (presumably the proposed I-605 corridor) while declaring that he (unlike David Irons) would not pave over King County with new traffic lanes while he is King County Executive, and yet his own well established RTA plans (loosely associated with the 9.5 cent gas tax) call for building new traffic lanes by paving over areas along-side I-405. Most absurdly, SIMS DELIBERATELY NEGLECTS TO REVEAL THAT THESE NEW LANES, TRANSIT RAMPS, AND PARK AND RIDE FACILITIES (HE SAYS HE ISN’T GOING TO PAVE OVER THE COUNTY WITH) WILL SERVICE TRANSIT LANES ONLY.
How naive can our public possibly get? The sky is the limit because our citizens told Sims and Gregoire et al that there are enough friggin’ idiots in our area that will buy whatever fear driven mendacious crap they hand us.
Until we have a real disaster or terrorist attack in this area nothing will change because liberals are not attuned to reason but emotional appeals to fear, death and suffering. You cannot reason with someone like this because they do not operate out of reason. We live amongst liberal nitwits with small brains so get used to it. Their own leaders know that they can be easily exploited so what is to stop them now? Not all of those who voted down I-912 are lost souls; some just didn't pay close enough attention to the facts, and bought into the hysterical liberal Democrat lie machine. There is always hope that after they get another sustained object lesson from the liberal leadership, they will wise up. There is no hope for the rest of them. Unfortunately, we must go along for the ride with bozos for awhile longer.
Amusing indeed.
I am no longer "Amused by liberals" but thoroughly DISGUSTED BY LIBERALS
Posted by: Cheryl on November 12, 2005 12:16 PMBut there's got to be good candidates. Simply being anti-gas tax - an issue, like it or not, which just failed with the state's voters - isn't enough. (And make sure those close races in the King Co. crescent get counted properly.)
Misty,
I hope we don't have a terrorist attack here for much the same reasons, but doesn't this seem like a likely target? Al Quaida hates liberals more intensely than anyone else, the greater Seattle area is over-run with liberals, yet this fact is entirely lost on them. The paradox seems mildly amusing in a dark sort of way.
Cheryl,
I am disgusted as well, but it is more fun and healthier to be amused. Possibly reconsider?
Thanks.
I forgot where I read it, but Seattle isn't a high priority target for Al Quida. They're more concerned about the bergs back east... primarily NY, Boston, and D.C. as they have more Jews per capita. Apparently they give priority to cities with higher concentrations of Jews, and there aren't enough Jews in the Seattle area to make it a priority for them
Posted by: Mike H on November 12, 2005 03:25 PMYou are probably correct. Nevertheless, I can't help but speculate. The very nature of the rational and logical disconnect amounting to political indolence that motivated many of our fellow citizens to vote down I-912 is what makes them (and us) vulnerable to any problems necessitating clear thinking and preparedness. Vigilance is incompatible with sloth.
It seems to me that because N.Y., Boston, and D.C. are explicitly thought to be such prime targets, they might in fact be less preferred by terrorists simply because they are more alert, and would be more difficult to attack. Our local government agencies are complacent about emergency situations and preparedness, our civilian population lacks a mature appreciation of any type of serious emergent threat, combined with an ideological disposition unsuited to watchfulness, and our leadership is drunk with raw power, corruption, and narcissism.
We actually have leftist organizations in the city of Seattle that are providing aid to Al Quaida and other terrorist organizations along with a liberal climate that is acquiescent to their perceived ideals if not ardently supportive of them. I would be surprised if we are not very much on the list for attack by Al Quaida and others, just as I would be very surprised if Houston or Dallas-Fort Worth ever gets attacked. I could sure be wrong though, and I hope I am.
Thanks for the comments.
I believe that it is all part of the master plan.
Seattle's mayor wanted the monorail, but he had to let it go to get his tunnel!
He was given an ultimatium by Gregoire and he was told that Seattle voters would be asked to vote by 2006 for another 9.5 cent tax to fund the rest of the emergency projects among other mass transit things.
Posted by: sgmmac on November 12, 2005 07:47 PMI trust and believe every word that Christine Gregoire and Ron Sims say. Dean Logan is the best elections guy we've ever had! We haven't lost a single important race yet under his supervision. What's with all your gloom and doom? Things could be worse. You could be in charge! Why don't you RIGHTARDS ask the president to come to WA to endorse your candidates?
Posted by: Harry Poon on November 12, 2005 10:07 PMThere have been numerous studies conducted on the efficiency and safety of "bike paths." It turns out that the so-called bike paths that are separate from traffic are actually multimodal paths (Seattle calls them "Shared Use"), and with a bicycle accident rate usually an order of magnitude greater (yes, 10x) that of an on-street bike path. The problem is that they are overrun with walkers, runners, rollerbladers, dogs, children, and such (Plus irregular pavement, lack of maintenance, poor drainage, and multiple road and driveway crossings with stop signs). Additionally, they usually loop around so that you end up traveling a greater distance than on the road. I have been on separate bike paths where it would take me twice as long to get somewhere than riding on the adjacent street. These separate "bike paths" are nice for a leisurely summer afternoon in the park, but questionable as a transportation alternative. This is transportation money, not parks money. However, it looks better in the media when the bigwigs show up and show a new ribbon of asphalt, rather than some lines painted on a road.
There are more details in the book "Effective Cycling," by John Forester
As for the "bicycle overpass" in Moses Lake, I am not surprised that a bridge over Interstate 90 costs a little under $1M. I also expect that it is primarily a pedestrian overpass, but is labeled as a bicycle overpass to get matching Federal funds under TEA-LU (previously TEA-21). I too doubt Moses Lake needs a bicycle overpass there, but they may need a pedestrian overpass. Everyone is getting distracted by the word "bicycle," when it is just a funding mode.
As for why this project is first in line? Probably because its design is already completed. The Viaduct replacement is still a political football between the tunnel and new viaduct – no decision yet, so don't expect them to put a spade into the dirt soon.
You may have it right there, but how insane is that?
How soon will the big ol' haywagon (WA state) just upset, go belly up?
Arnold is battling mightily down there in CA but it's a losing battle. CA is -- for all intents and purposes -- bankrupt. WA is going right down that same road.
Us taxpayers aren't going to carry the load forever. We're already plotting and planning. We're gonna be gone. And the poor suckers down in Liberal City are going to be stuck with what they've created.
Posted by: Rick on November 13, 2005 01:59 AMhttp://apnews.myway.com/article/20051113/D8DR8Q4G0.html
Calif. May Build Tunnel in Quake Region
Nov 12, 7:46 PM (ET)
By GILLIAN FLACCUS
ALISO VIEJO, Calif. (AP) - Traffic is so bad along the eastern rim of Los Angeles' suburban ring that regional planners are considering the once unthinkable - an 11-mile tunnel through a mountain range in earthquake country.
Critics question the logic of building a multibillion-dollar project in a region so prone to earthquakes that an alternate proposal for a double-decker highway was deemed too dangerous. The tunnel would begin barely a mile from a fault that produced a 6.0-magnitude earthquake about a century ago.
So why is the mayor wanting to build a tunnel?
Posted by: timman on November 13, 2005 08:25 AMI've always wondered, exactly how do the users of bicycle lanes pay their fair share for the cost of bicycle lanes? It's not like they're paying tolls, tab fees, or gas tax.
I also expect that it is primarily a pedestrian overpass, but is labeled as a bicycle overpass to get matching Federal funds under TEA-LU (previously TEA-21). I too doubt Moses Lake needs a bicycle overpass there, but they may need a pedestrian overpass. Everyone is getting distracted by the word "bicycle," when it is just a funding mode.
So how is this different from lying?
Posted by: ItTakesAVillageToConveneAGrandJury on November 13, 2005 11:23 AMI-912 had 60% support several months before the election, and the left-wing propaganda successfuly took 12-15 points off that by the end. What it means is that no matter what, the left-wing media machine is all powerful in WA state and conservative ideas have no chance.
Posted by: doug on November 13, 2005 02:02 PMEven though I voted for it, a more focused campaign by the proponents would have helped I-912 do better, but one shortcoming of the pro I-912 campaign is that it emulated the Democrat party some - criticisms and bashing, but no solutions. Alternative solutions for funding and building these road projects - in the event the gas tax was repealed was something missing or not promoted enough in the campaign, especially in the aftermath of Katrina, which would have made people think more about I-912 before voting.
Posted by: KS on November 13, 2005 03:38 PMYou are correct about "big media" in the Puget Sound Region. Couple big media with Cliff's assertion of big business (big $$$$$), big labor (big mouths) and big government (big idiots) and you get big taxes. Get used to it Washington, Seattle's diving this boat.
Posted by: Saltherring on November 14, 2005 05:23 AMYou would be quite surprised at the answer.
If you fix the viaduct, it may be the only remaining structure. Disclaimer on this is that the newer buildings had to be built with newer earthquake standards and could possibly survive the "Earthquake of the Century".
Posted by: swatter on November 14, 2005 08:51 AMHow’s this for a new initiative. Before the legislature can use an emergency Claus on anything. They should first have to cut the state government across the board by 20 to 25%. If by freeing up this amount of money, it is not enough, then they can declare an emergency to proceed with obtaining the money needed for their pet projects.
SORRY. The viaduct was retrofitted, and it is safe. However, it is NOT possible to retrofit the Viaduct to make it earthquake-proof. There is no such thing as an earthquake-proof structure.
Swatter,
The seismic standards that many of the downtown high rises were built-to make them "more" resilient but not earthquake-proof.
People who use such terms, exhibit a lack of knowledge about earthquakes and their collateral effects. There are many types of earthquakes, and corresponding effects, some of which are predicted to occur in our area.
The viaduct or any usable transportation structure replacing it will not survive a subduction zone event like the one that happened in our area 5600 years ago. Experts say we will have another just like it. Who knows for sure? No one. What we do know for sure is that if the so-called "big-one" occurs, it will devastate everything in our area and kill many people.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on November 14, 2005 01:57 PMThe bicycle lane is to be added to the bridge because local people wanted it - and they're paying more in gas taxes for it than they're getting.
Posted by: Ben Schiendelman on November 16, 2005 01:06 PM