November 17, 2005
Challenged Voter

The first of the hearings on the challenged mail box voters was held this afternoon. I was only able to stay for a little while , but I did catch the first part of the hearing on this voter:

Teri Carpenter (nee Tod Carpenter), who claims residence at the Mail Box & Shipping Center, 16149 NE Redmond Way Box 205, Redmond.
Ms. Carpenter, who appears to be a good 6' tall, stated convincingly that she does not actually live in her mail box, but that it has been a convenient place to receive her mail as she has moved around a lot in the last few years. She testified that she currently resides in a recreational vehicle in a recreational park in Carnation. In spite of her testimony that she lives in a different city from the mail box where she is registered, the Democrats' lawyer argued that the registration challenge should be tossed out on the grounds that the challenger did not provide the voter's address.

The P-I's report on the challenge hearing is headlined "Few voters show up to plead case". It's conceivable that not all of the no-shows are real people.

King County Elections was handing out a "fact sheet" titled "Cleaning the Voter Roles". I'll know they're more serious about cleaning the voter rolls when they at least learn how to spell it.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at November 17, 2005 11:13 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Hah! So the Dems were trying to pull the 'ol "So what if she didn't provide the required information! Forget the facts! It doesn't matter" (pounds table..)

Posted by: Misty on November 17, 2005 11:46 PM
2. No, they're using the Chicago patented "You haven't proven that the person you claim doesn't really exist lives anywhere outside the district." method.

It's a direct take off from the election challenge of "You didn't prove how all these non-existant voters voted." method.

Posted by: Ryan on November 18, 2005 12:02 AM
3. ...the Democrats' lawyer argued that the registration challenge should be tossed out on the grounds that the challenger did not provide the voter's address.

Ummm... hello... she's registered at a mailbox. What more do the Republicans need in order to show a violation of the law? Who cares what her current address is... at over 6', it's not inside the mailbox she's registered at.

Posted by: Mike H on November 18, 2005 12:11 AM
4. I LIVE IN N.E. TACOMA BUT DO ALL OF MY SHOPPING IN FEDERAL WAY. TODAY WHILE AT THE POST OFFICE GETTING STAMPS, THE CLERK TOLD ME THAT THEY NOW HAVE LARGE MAIL BOX'S AVAILIBLE & DO I STILL NEED ONE. I WAS TOLD TO FILL OUT THE FORMS,A CHANGE OF ADDRESS, ECT. AND...OH YES...FILL OUT A NEW VOTER REG. WITH THE MAIL BOX ADDRESS!!!! I TOLD HIM THAT I DO NOT EVEN LIVE IN KING COUNTY. HE JUST SAID...OH WELL.

Posted by: TACOMA PHLASH on November 18, 2005 12:32 AM
5. I love the "Cleaning the Voter Roles" "Fact sheet", where KCE essentially admits it did a REALLY crummy job before '05 of having clean voter rolls---they effectively admit that at least 100,000 names on the voter rolls were problematic (and we know that's not all). Hmmmm, 100,000. That's waaaay more than the margin of 'victory' in '04, isn't it????? Waaaaaay waaaaay more. Lots of opportunity for fraud there, wasn't there?

Posted by: Misty on November 18, 2005 12:37 AM
6. if they clean the voter rolls, then you might be able to prove fraud. So long as there are problematic voter regisrations, the buck is passed to those voters. You really don't think that King County Elections should be expected to fix a problem that serves their purpose do you?
(Sarcasm mine)

Posted by: Jim L on November 18, 2005 12:52 AM
7. I stayed somewhat longer than Stefan. He missed the histrionics of the evening when a voter whose challenge had been withdrawn was allowed to speak. Flanked by democrat attorney Kevin Hamilton, the voter complained that his “life had been turned upside down” by the challenge and that his vote didn’t count even though the challenge had been withdrawn because by the time the vote was counted all of the races had been decided! Mr. Hamilton then gave his legal opinion that the homeless should be allowed to declare a mailbox or storage unit as their abode. Asked why the voter and Mr. Hamilton were allowed to testify before the Canvassing Board, Mr. Logan explained that the board was in recess so this wasn’t actually testimony. The republican attorney, Diane Tebelius apologized for the mistaken challenge and explained that his vote really was counted.

The Canvassing Board is delaying its decisions on the challenges. They didn’t say what standard they will use but the questioning indicates that it may be impossible to meet. Some of the questions were argumentative. The challenger, Lori Sotelo, was able to find the evident true residence for some of the challenged voters. When she described how an address was obtained she was asked if she had visited those places to verify that the voter actually lived there. Or she was asked how she knew that it was the same person. The democrats are arguing that it is not sufficient to show that a voter can’t possibly maintain an abode in a mailbox – the challenger must provide absolute proof of where the person actually resides. If the Canvassing Board adopts this standard then I expect a rush of new mailbox registrations since Logan argues that he is not obligated to check the validity of residential addresses.

A number of challenged voters submitted their actual addresses prior to the hearings but apparently not in time for the election deadline. One of these voted where I served as provisional ballot judge. His registration address was near Swedish Hospital but he was told to vote on Beacon Hill. I found out tonight the reason – he had submitted a late change of address. It is a mystery why hearings are being held for these voters and Ms. Sotelo has to go through the wringer when the voters have already admitted that there registrations were improper.

According to King County, 126 voters changed their addresses before the challenges were filed, 116 changed their addresses before the election deadline, 76 were duplicates, and 140 had been withdrawn before the election. That left 1400+ challenged voters. Of these, only 216 have been identified as actually voting. That’s a turnout of about 15% for this category of voter while the overall King County turnout was close to 50%. Despite all the cries that the republicans are disenfranchising voters it appears that most disenfranchised themselves (if they existed at all).

Posted by: Bob Edelman on November 18, 2005 01:20 AM
8. Is this challenged voter a SHE-MAN???

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 18, 2005 03:25 AM
9. It is a mystery why hearings are being held for these voters and Ms. Sotelo has to go through the wringer when the voters have already admitted that there registrations were improper.

I don't see that it's a mystery at all. Ms. Sotelo is being used to send a message...we run things, and you'd better not forget it.


I suppose it's time to get to work on making Logan's position elected. That may be the only way to remove one of the most aggressively stupid "public servants" it's been my misfortune to pay salary to.

Posted by: South County on November 18, 2005 05:34 AM
10. Stefan,

I hope the "euthanized" post is a fake one. While I personally don't know any one that is a "she-man," as you call them, that kind of comment is out of line. The GOP doesn't advocate the euthanizing of Far Lefties and that is a much bigger societal problem than being confused about your gender.

If we're going to show that the GOP is really the "big tent" party that puts ideas ahead of ideology, these kinds of comments have to stop.

Posted by: Mark on November 18, 2005 06:21 AM
11. Mark,
The last entry from "Stefan" was our daily imposter, not the real Stefan.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on November 18, 2005 06:26 AM
12. "In spite of her testimony that she lives in a different city from the mail box where she is registered, the Democrats' lawyer argued that the registration challenge should be tossed out...."

If this challenge fails, I think it's time for conservatives and Republicans from heavily Republican districts around the state to start registering in King County so we can interfere in their elections.

I mean, you may say that we shouldn't break the law just because Democrats and their scumbag lawyers break the law, and this is true. But if this challenge fails, it means that the legal requirement to register where one actually lives no longer exists. The law has to be the same for everyone, and if Democrats are allowed to do something, then it is permissible for Republicans as well.

Tacoma Phlash: If the clerk merely meant that you should fill out a registration form to change your *mailing* address, that's OK. You can get your mail wherever you want, as long as your physical address is where you actually live.

Posted by: ScottM on November 18, 2005 06:59 AM
13. Dear Imposter "Stefan",

If you are going to "pose" as stefan, at least use the real Stefan's Email Address.

Get a life, and grow up!!!!

Posted by: Chris on November 18, 2005 06:59 AM
14. On one hand, registering your residence at a mailbox is clearly illegal. On the other hand, to challenge it, you must provide the actual address of where the voter resides.

We are faced with the law of unintended (to be generous) consequences.

I would think that the first criteria in assessing a challenge to a voter registration is that it is a legal registration to begin with.

If the residence address was in fact a valid living place, then I can see (partly) the need to prove where they do live.

Per the law, for "nontraditional" addresses, their adobe address should be a government building, not a private mailbox.

Ms Carpenters "residence" is in Redmond, but by her testimony, her "abode" is actually out in Carnation. This would have an effect on which ballot she was given, which is the basis for the residence law.

King County has become the test case to see what hope the PEOPLE have of getting clean, legal voting ROLLS. If we can't clean up King County......

Posted by: SouthernRoots on November 18, 2005 07:18 AM
15. The emergence of imposters on SP is a sure sign of desperation. I liken them to car bombers in the middle east.

Posted by: Organization Man on November 18, 2005 07:29 AM
16. In reading all the posts, and the Democrats succeed in nullifying the challenges based on the Rep. not having personal knowledge of the registered voters "abode" address. I could then pick a valid address in KC, and include my mailing address in Lewis County, and be legit to vote in KC.

At the same time, I could still vote in Lewis County, because KC Elections will not "Check" my registration for accuracy. I can Disenfranchise Myself LOL !!!!!

I say let the registrations begin!!!!!!!

Posted by: Chris on November 18, 2005 07:29 AM
17. I like the way you are following this election stuff even though I don't really understand it. I do understand one thing: leave innocent people alone and respect their privancy.

Posted by: thor on November 18, 2005 07:44 AM
18. Gotta love this from the bottom of the Seattle Times article:

"The elections office screens and sets aside registrations with addresses that use "P.O. Box" or "PMB" but doesn't examine street addresses voters provide to make certain they are residences. It used to, but Logan has said he ended the practice because "I was uncomfortable with the arbitrary nature of that and our authority to do it.""

Logan is uncomfortable with the arbitrary nature of it?!!? But he's perfectly comfortable with ever-changing standards for judging voter intent?!!?

This is getting to be surreal!!!!

Posted by: Scott in Carnation on November 18, 2005 07:49 AM
19. Chris: I think I want to vote in the Seattle races and against Jim McDermott, so I think I'll change my registration from Carnation to a mailbox on Capital Hill. That seems to be perfectly OK by the Democrats and King County Elections..........

Posted by: Scott in Carnation on November 18, 2005 07:51 AM
20. Thor, it boils down to one simple concept: follow the law or eliminate the law. The law has requirements for voter registrations. If we are not going to require people to follow them, why have them? Your voter registration is not private information, only the way you voted. Further, if someone lives in Carnation, but votes on Redmond races, they are disenfranchising a Redmond voter!

You would be amazed at what is public information. Ever check out the the parcel viewer and iMap on the King County website? Do some digging there and then come tell me you're concerned about people's privacy when it comes to their voter registration information..........

Posted by: Scott in Carnation on November 18, 2005 07:56 AM
21. More Tomfoolery!!

Posted by: Laurie on November 18, 2005 08:19 AM
22. My. Cynical

Is that a five o'clock shadow 'she' has got under her make-up? Or something like that

Posted by: JDH on November 18, 2005 08:19 AM
23. Mr. Cynical,
Kinda looks lika a five-o'clock shadow 'she' is sporting under 'her' make-up. Or something like that

Posted by: JDH on November 18, 2005 08:21 AM
24. King Co. elections could learn a lot from their peers in Fairfax Co., Virginia. From the 11/9 Washington Post:

Former special prosecutor Ken Starr may have bailed on the Beltway for the sun and surf of Malibu, where he's dean of the Pepperdine law school . . . but he left his electoral heart in the Old Dominion.

Starr showed up with his wife at a Fairfax County polling site Sunday to vote early as an absentee but was turned away when his name was not found on the rolls. Officials say the former Bill Clinton nemesis lost his Virginia registration by responding affirmatively to a change-of-address query earlier this year. Records show that Starr has not yet registered to vote in California, more than a year after moving there.

Posted by: Steven Donegal on November 18, 2005 08:51 AM
25. Mark sez:
"While I personally don't know any one that is a "she-man," as you call them, that kind of comment is out of line. The GOP doesn't advocate the euthanizing of Far Lefties and that is a much bigger societal problem than being confused about your gender. If we're going to show that the GOP is really the "big tent" party that puts ideas ahead of ideology, these kinds of comments have to stop."
Mark--
Perhaps you are just the right guy to cultivate the amazingly fertile grounds of the "SHE-MAN WING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY".
PS---Don't invite me to any of your fund-raisers!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 18, 2005 09:21 AM
26. Tacoma,

This is probably a stretch, but giving the PO the benefit of the doubt...

He is a fed employee and may not know the WA election laws. Also, saying to fill out a voter registration could be the mailing address portion, not the place of residence - given you just got a new mailing address.

I find it curious that the fed employees would even be involved in pushing voter registration.

Posted by: fred on November 18, 2005 09:30 AM
27. These actions are a colossal blunder and will mint far more legal Democrat voters than unlawful voters they will stop.

Every page of publicity for this is another nail in the coffin of the state Republican party. So, chortle away, if you must, as the Republican base continues to dwindle. The Republicans will be left with a hard core group of supporters that cannot elect anyone, and people of substance will think twice before running under its banner or giving to its candidates.

Congratulations.

Posted by: Swifter on November 18, 2005 09:33 AM
28. Mark--
As you scour Belltown and the Freemount District in your admirable effort to build a massive SHE-MAN wing of the Republican Party.....don't be discouraged too quickly when you have virtually zero success. Perhaps you can expand your Rainbow of Tolerance and Diversity in an equally futile effort to capture the HE-WOMEN!!
Mark, I wish you the very best in your efforts.
PS---While I won't be contributing financially, I wouldn't mind seeing one of your brochures!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 18, 2005 09:46 AM
29. I think it would be great if Teri were able to be assisted in registering correctly, and being able to vote in the next election. You may be surprised how many six foot ladies (and five foot ones, too)are conservative in their political lives. I admire Teri for showing up, and for showing an interest in voting.

Legitimate cleaning up the voting process needs to allow for correction of errors, as well as purging of errors. Both exist. Try to stay focused on that, not gender issues, which have no legitimate place in this discussion.

Posted by: duhh on November 18, 2005 09:48 AM
30. Swifter - Your premise for that is...?

If I follow your logic - the more corrupt the Ds are shown to be, the more support they will get. This will make people run from the people that are factually showing the corruption? Is that the gist of it?

You sure seem to have a loww opinion of the electorate here - which may or may not be warranted.

Posted by: fred on November 18, 2005 09:48 AM
31. Exactly what I sensed, that these people would not show up at that hearing and hardly any of them showed up to vote in the last election. Because if they were fraduantly registered, they would be committing a crime showing up at either. So lets run the list against the latest data base we have from the county and see how many bothered to show up last election.

This is not unlike the libs or the Seattle Press to not discuss how many of these names are found to be registered illegally, they would rather focus on the other side of the argument.

Posted by: GS on November 18, 2005 09:49 AM
32. Has a challenge been made against Ron Sims' nephew registering to vote in Seattle (at his uncle's address) while he was living in New York? Will Dean Logan "...be uncomfortable with the arbitrary nature of that"?

Posted by: John425 on November 18, 2005 09:49 AM
33. I will also remind everyone, that Judge Bridges agreed that King County Elections were flawed, and he recommended that the people clean it up. I commend people like Sharkansky who keep this alive until the database is flushed of illegal voter registrations.

Posted by: GS on November 18, 2005 10:09 AM
34. I love it. In order to prove that a registration is invalid, (according to the whacky world of KCE) the challenger has to hunt the person down and find their residential address. So, if the registrant doesn't exist, or doesn't want to be found, the registration stands! Har.

The Republicans should just make up a home address for all these PO box dwellers, then. Why not, if they're imaginary people? Here's one they can use:

11 Apollo Landing
Moonbat Colony, Luna

Posted by: starboardhelm on November 18, 2005 10:13 AM
35. Cynical re: "SHE-MAN wing of the GOP -

While I won't be contributing financially, I wouldn't mind seeing one of your brochures!

So, you're saying you are a closet fan of "she-men?"

I hope this was a fake "Cynical" post. Why would you attack me? I have no interest in either promoting or discouraging a "she-man" wing of the GOP. I'm just saying it is stupid to kick out an otherwise supportive Republican just because they prefer skirts to pants. What is your feeling on Scotish Republicans in kilts?

Posted by: Mark on November 18, 2005 10:20 AM
36. I'm sure destroying the Republic will make you very proud, Swifter. Never again will you have to win a free election in order to impose your will on the people.

Posted by: ScottM on November 18, 2005 10:20 AM
37. I am saddened by the shoddy procedures my fellow republicans have used in this effort. We hold oursevles to be the party of fairness and just -- yet the proceedings are showing that we haven't held ourselves to those high standards.

To read the accounts of wrongly accused voters is the opposite of what our founding fathers, and our heroic republican leaders over time, have set out for us.

Stefan...with your intent on honest and fair elections (correct!), I expect you to call it as it is.

Please help restore integrity to the project and effort by calling upon our local leaders who have erred to admit it and move on.

Posted by: Kip German on November 18, 2005 10:23 AM
38. If we're on a Catch-22 on challenging, then go a different route!

Directly accuse the voter of violations of the law.

That is _NOT_ the same as 'challenging the voter', the challenge is to remove them from the rolls. (Or get their information updated apparently).

Posted by: Al on November 18, 2005 10:23 AM
39. starboardhelm...good points.

Democrat lawyers, don't ya just want to strangle them? Burden of proof should be on the voter to prove residency. If my registration was challenged, I would be happy to prove residency and citizenship...but to have lawyers or investigators snooping around looking for me...ick! Smells like big brother and black helicopters.

Posted by: dl on November 18, 2005 10:34 AM
40. DL...that's kind of backwards. The big brothers are the ones who say lawful folks have to be brought in to prove their legality.

Posted by: Kip German on November 18, 2005 10:37 AM
41. The goofing on Ms Carpenter is out of line.

While her registration was illegal, she is a voter and took the time to defend her vote.

That is as commendable as Stefan's crusade to get elections cleaned up.

I wish the rest of the state took their right to vote as seriously.

Posted by: Andy on November 18, 2005 11:02 AM
42. KCE should be helping mis-registered people to register properly -- not aiding and abeting oblivious or malicious voters in registering improperly as they are doing.

The Republicans might have been better off sending notices directly to all the mailing and "residential" addresses on their list informing those voters of their impending challenge; 1) to allow the oblivious ones to correct their registrations, and 2) to show critics that they gave the malicious ones a chance to show their faces.

Posted by: starboardhelm on November 18, 2005 11:03 AM
43. Dishonest claptrap from the PI. Check out the caption:

Teri Carpenter of Carnation addresses GOP lawyers challenging her right to vote during a King County elections canvassing board hearing in Seattle Thursday.

Nobody's challenging her frigging right to vote. The GOP is challenging her registration. Can't those dishonest liars at the PI do even rudimentary fact checking? Oh, wait...

Posted by: Steve_dog on November 18, 2005 11:17 AM
44. The goal is to have clean voter rolls. The challenge isn't about the voters but about their registrations. Fix the registration - make them conform to the law - and it's done.

Of the 1400 or so left on this list), how many of the letters were returned as undeliverable?

What has happened to the voter registrations of the 7302 ballots that were returned by USPS as undeliverable in the Sept. primary? Have they been placed inactive or cancelled? Is there any overlap between those and this list of 1400?


Dean Logan insists that he must take registrations at "face value" - if they look complete.

However, there is language in the law that seems to be against this approach:

" RCW 29A.08.110
Auditor's procedure. (Effective until January 1, 2006.)

(1) On receipt of an application for voter registration under this chapter, the county auditor shall review the application to determine whether the information supplied is complete. An application that contains the applicant's name, complete valid residence address,, date of birth, and signature attesting to the truth of the information provided on the application is complete."

Why would the legislature add "complete valid" before residence address if they did not intend for the auditor to confirm the addresses as valid?

Posted by: SouthernRoots on November 18, 2005 11:20 AM
45. How many government employees are necessary to ensure 100% clean and accurate voter rolls?

Posted by: Kip German on November 18, 2005 11:30 AM
46. 1) Dean Logan and Ron Sims should be held responsible for the duplicate voters and inelligible voters on the election roll
2) Stefan has already identified a large number of potential duplicate voters. Stefan should not have to do this. Dean Logan should have a competent County employee(s) identify potential duplicate voters and do the necessary followup.
3) Dean Logan should have identified the improperly registered voters. Although the Republicans made some errors, there are still 90+% questionable registrations.
4) The Democrat attorney is just a shit weasel for Paul Berendt, Washington State Democrat Chair. Expecting the challenger to identify the inidvidual's true voting address is absurd.
5) I don't care if Teri or Tod Carpenter is a she male or transvestite. She/he needs to be properly registered where she/he lives.
6) Another shit weasel is Michael McGinn of the Sierra Club and a Paul Berendt bitch. McGinn used his position as Chair of the Washington Sierra Club to endorse only Democrat partisians.
7) Mcginn's about as much an environmentalist as I'm a vegan

Posted by: Disgusted Voter on November 18, 2005 11:31 AM
47. Cynical is simply annoyed because he knows -- from first hand experience -- that this person has gone ahead and gotten nipped and tucked.

Posted by: TF on November 18, 2005 11:33 AM
48. I should have read the King Co fact sheet first.

It was alleged last year that a guide put out by King County told some people exactly how they could get away with illegal voting (provisional ballots into the Accuvotes).

In this fact sheet, they appear to do it again - when you register at a mail box, DO NOT put PO Box or PMB on your registration card, these are apparently the only flags KCE uses to determine if the address is residential or not.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on November 18, 2005 11:39 AM
49. Mark (Disgusted):

How can we get Stefan elected? He'd clean this stuff up! Actually, would you run? You have the right attitude...the one desperately needed. Would you run? Let's get the bums out and the good guys in!

Posted by: Kip German on November 18, 2005 11:40 AM
50. Good idea, Starboard. I am disgusted with the sloppy fact checking that Chris Vance and crew did before sending in the 2000 challenges. There should not have been even ONE error in the challenge. Two hundred totally checked and verified bogus addresses would have been better than the 2000 thousand, opps! no, make that 1800, or, ummm, is is it 1587, or oh, sorry, we'll just check in later. How stupid can you get?!!

I am so sick of stupid Republican tactics which allow the party of corruption to gain a foothold and marginalize the truth. Not only do Ron Sims and Dean Logan need to go, but Chris Vance needs to go, too. His leadership (?) has too many critical errors to be further endorsed. Time for a change there, too.

Posted by: duhh on November 18, 2005 11:52 AM
51. Disgusted Voter says:

"5) I don't care if Teri or Tod Carpenter is a she male or transvestite. She/he needs to be properly registered where she/he lives."

The pertinent point.

Posted by: TF on November 18, 2005 11:54 AM
52. I agree with duhh's post.Gop does need a change in leadership my? is when will this happen?!The Dems are bad enough do we really need to help their cause too!!

Posted by: Laurie on November 18, 2005 01:00 PM
53. Kip German says:

How many government employees are necessary to ensure 100% clean and accurate voter rolls?

This is kind of an irrelevant question. It would be foolish to assume that we could ever have 100% clean and accurate voter rolls. Probably not even 99.98% or even 99.8%. However, KCE's own flyer says 18,000 duplicate registrations were merged (presumably, that means 18,000 duplicated registrations were removed) and that 8,900 deceased voters were removed and that 73,000 inactive voters were put on inactive status. That adds up to just shy of 100,000 improperly registered voters, and presumably 67,000 improperly mailed absentee ballots. There are about a million voters in King County. Nearly 10% of those voters were dubious. How many employees does it take to do better than 90%?

Posted by: huckleberry on November 18, 2005 01:44 PM
54. FRED...YOU MAY BE RIGHT THAT A FEDERAL EMPLOYEE MAY NOT KNOW THE RULES BUT THE WAY HE SAID IT...IT MAKES ME WONDER?

NO I DID NOT GET THE P.O. BOX.

Posted by: TACOMA PHLASH on November 18, 2005 02:36 PM
55. You guys are unbelievable. The idea is that all citizens of this country should be able to vote and it should be made as easy as possible. The only regulations necessary are to make sure nobody votes more than once. That's it. Anything to make it more difficult for a legal citizen to vote is unconstitutional. It doesn't matter whether they can afford a house or a place to live in, or can read or what their sex is or what their religion. If they are a citizen they deserve to be able to vote without Republicans trying to make it more difficult.

Posted by: David T. on November 18, 2005 02:52 PM
56. Window dressing! Froth! Fulmination!

Challenges to voters! PAH!

It doesn't matter a hill a of beans with out real election reform.

The voters of KC spoke, reelected Sims, and rubber stamped Logan's running of KCE. 54% of those who voted like living knee deep in ......

KC Republicans get some illegal voters kick off the rolls. SO WHAT! To get back they register at two more times at mail boxes under three names and four genders. Then get three friends to do the same.

KC Republicans are into street theatrics.

WHO HOOO! Look at us we are doing something to reform the elections process.

BULL PUCKEY gag

Real meaningful election reform starts with:

Purge the voter rolls. Throw the whole thing out, tabla rossa.

Everyone registers, prince or pauper, everyone re-registers. If they don't like it they don't value their franchise so &%$# them.

THE LAW will be followed, citizenship, residency, no exceptions.

King Co. Assessor has all the GIS info for the county, lots, addresses, buildings the whole shebang. Cross deck data to KCE and verify addresses. Bad address send the registrant a notice with a deadline if they don't respond, drop the registration.

It's not rocket science. It's a database with 2 million records and 2 dozen fields to each record. As databases go it's a trivial little database.

Election reform starts with clean registration roles.

Right now everyone claiming they can make silk purses out of sows' ears.

KC Republicans need to stand up for real election reform. Challenging these voters is worrying about a ding in the paint when the engine is seized.

Posted by: JCM on November 18, 2005 03:08 PM
57. David T, what is unbelievable is that you totally miss the point. The right of LEGAL citizens to vote is diluted when NON-LEGAL votes are cast. One minus one equals zero. The entire thrust is to allow the legal votes to count, and make it more difficult for non-citizen, non-living, non-person, and duplicate votes to count. Perhaps if you were to take the talking points off your refrigerator door and actually think about it, you would not get so upset with Republicans trying to protect YOUR vote.

Posted by: duhh on November 18, 2005 03:16 PM
58. It seems those in the Dementocrat arm of the party just don't get that illegal voting is theft. No voters are disenfranchised when people follow the law, but plenty of voters are when the law is flaunted or ignored.

The laws are there to protect our vote from theft.

There's a guy who laughs at my attempts to play golf. He watches me toss my ball out of a muddy ditch, or out of a sandtrap that I've dug a foxhole in, and says, "I don't know *what* game you're playing, but it sure ain't golf."

The rules define the game.

Posted by: starboardhelm on November 18, 2005 03:51 PM
59. Posted by David T. at November 18, 2005 02:52 PM --
The only regulations necessary are to make sure nobody votes more than once.

So, would it be all right for thousands of people who oppose your favorite candidate to ride in from out of town or even from out of state on the day of the election and cast just one ballot apiece against your guy?

I think you wouldn't like that idea. Neither did the people who adopted our state's constitution, which requires residence in the "state, county and precinct" for at least 30 days before the election, and requires the legislature to enact laws setting up a registration system--and compliance with that system before one is eligible to cast a ballot. See Article VI, sections 1 and 7.

The challenges made by the GOP are intended to overcome Logan's refusal to comply with the registration laws. Ironically, what the Dems claim has a grain of truth to it: The challenge statute focuses on people who "no longer" maintain a residence where they were registered to vote; but most of the challenged people never did have a residence at the address they gave. Logan was required by law to reject applications to register which didn't state the "complete valid residence address." He refused to try to determine whether the addresses could be "valid," and here we are -- going through this drill to try to clean up the mess Logan and these would-be voters made.

Posted by: Micajah on November 18, 2005 04:17 PM
60. David T is a kool-aid drinker.

Karl Rove should go to prison.
GWB should be impeached.
And Logan is 'da man wid the good home schoolin' who bring home 'da votes.

If he couldn't copy and paste from moveon or horses patioo he couldn't post.

Posted by: JCM on November 18, 2005 04:28 PM
61. "It doesn't matter whether they can afford a house or a place to live in, or can read or what their sex is or what their religion. If they are a citizen they deserve to be able to vote without Republicans trying to make it more difficult."

There will always be requirements beyond citizenship to allow one to cast a ballot. By your logic, I should be allowed to vote in your elections, even though I am 2500 miles away. I am a "citizen", so I should be allowed to vote. Send me a ballot and sign me up for a mailbox. I guess my underage child should also be allowed to vote. He's a citizen, too. Send me an extra ballot for him while you're at it. And don't none of you 'Rats try to stop me, because I'm a citizen, and I should be allowed to vote, without any of you 'Rats making it more difficult.

Posted by: Interested Observer on November 18, 2005 05:02 PM
62. I.O.

You are missing the point. The citizenship-only criterion applies only if you are voting for Democrats. Supporters of all other parties need to satisfy the other voter qualifications.

Who want a Republican voting in Seattle, anyway. It just sounds stupid, don't it?!

Posted by: huckleberry on November 18, 2005 06:16 PM
63. Micajah sez:
" Logan was required by law to reject applications to register which didn't state the "complete valid residence address." He refused to try to determine whether the addresses could be "valid," and here we are -- going through this drill to try to clean up the mess Logan and these would-be voters made."
Micajah, you have nailed the bottom-line here.
All Logan can say now is "I guess it depends upon what your definition of VALID is".
Keep beating the VALID ADDRESS drum. It more than implies Logan MUST do some sort of VALIDITY CHECK, doesn't it??

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 18, 2005 06:45 PM
64. Stefan, Cynical, and JDH:

First, Stefan, if you want to make fun of syntax, the proper term would be "ne," not "nee."

More importantly, your crudely winking frat boy post ("Ms. Carpenter, who appears to be a good 6' tall...") and the equally crass responses of Cynical and JDH underscore your real motives. This is clearly more about voter intimidation and supression than your disingenuous claims of "fraud."

At the hearing the GOP attorney pointedly and repeatedly alluded to personal matters about Ms. Carpenter which were utterly immaterial to the factual questions being considered at the hearing. Stefan amplifies the injury with his leering insinuations.

Do politics always trump decency? Do you have no consideration for privacy or personal dignity? How many people are you willing to drag, and through how deep of mud, to "clean up" the voting rolls? According to your lights it appears that the homeless or otherwise itinerant, crime victims seeking anonymity, sailors who lack a permanent abode and many others should be disenfranchised.

The only parallel I can think for such a monomaniacal crusade in recent history (setting aside Joe McCarthy) is Kenneth Starr, who spent tens of millions of dollars to get -- what? The fact that GWB's approval ratings are lower than Clinton's at the height of impeachment should tell you something: Dirty tricks work for only so long, as McCarthy, Nixon, and the rest of the GOP rogues' gallery belatedly learned.


Posted by: bartelby on November 18, 2005 07:15 PM
65. bartleby--
Take your civility mumbo-jumbo and stick it up your a$$!!!
You complain about meanness and then proceed to be mean with your ramblings about Ken Starr, Nixon, McCarthy and the kitchen sink.
Practice what you preach CLOWN!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 18, 2005 08:00 PM
66. I merely asked if Ms. Carpenter was a SHE-MAN??
It was disclosed that SHE/HE was a stand-up comedian. Don't you think HE/SHE showed up merely to promote HIS/HER act???
I'm not very well-versed in the lingo of political correctness.
I suppose I could have asked if Ms. Carpenter was Gender-confused...
Would that make you feel better Bartleby??
You LEFTIST PINEADED CLOWNS beat everything, you know that?!!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 18, 2005 08:04 PM
67. Golly, Cynical, your first line sez it all: "Take your civility mumbo-jumbo and stick it up your a$$!!!"

One is reminded of a sad ass schoolyard bully. I hope you enjoy wielding your flaccid taunts over us lesser souls who lack the delicate skills of SPEAKING IN CAPITAL LETTERS and EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!

Is this the verbal equivalent of driving a Hummer to make up for one's more personal, shall we say, insufficiencies?

Posted by: bartelby on November 18, 2005 09:25 PM
68. Cyncial may drive a verbal Hummer, but Bartlesboob also needs a verbal whack up side the head with a 2 X 4 to knock some sense into his/her comments. I suggest he/she also read "Do as I say" so he/she can see the caliber of clowns and dufuses those leftist icons are shown to be and he/she is sounding just like one of them (i.e. Michael Moore, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean and Al Franken just to name some).

On the other side, there is no excuse for sloppiness in elections, but the Repubs better get signed affadavits if they want these charges they are pressing to stick otherwise they may well come off looking foolish again. Remember Judge Bridges ?

Posted by: KS on November 18, 2005 10:13 PM
69. But let's get back to the topic, which is voter intimidation.

The techniques displayed in the GOP's voter challenges are eerily similar to tactics used in the Jim Crow era and beyond. In fairness, the GOP does not historically have a monopoly on such shenanigans. They were perfected by racist Southern Democrats. But just as the Republicans are no longer the party of Lincoln, redneck "Dixiecrats" like Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms moved from the D to the R column decades ago, and sadly dragged an ample bag of dirty tricks along.

The reason these techniques work (and therefore get repeated) is that they work under the radar. They target non-sexy populations with little voice and involve rather abstruse technical challenges.

In fairness, I should say that SS's work to promote transparency and accountability on the part of King County and other election officials is admirable and worthwhile. KCRE obviously has many problems, and as with any government agency, the more oversight they get the better.

The GOP's current challenges, however, are clearly a meat cleaver approach to problems more
suited to a scalpel.

The good news is found in the wisdom of the electorate. Like Newtie's feckless efforts to impeach Bill Clinton and the GOP's costly, disastrous and humiliating efforts to challenge the 2004 election, I trust that truth and justice will out yet again.

Posted by: bartelby on November 18, 2005 10:21 PM
70. bartleCLOWN:
I have seen what happens when folks get sucked into a discussion with CLOWNS about how things are said. Something tells me you are pertually offended by anyone who strongly disagrees with you.
So go ahead bartleCLOWN...set the "high bar" for civility. It seems you have already failed though....you are worse than what you claim to abhor! One need just look at your past 20 or so posts to see your civility ruse is merely a sham to try and stifle outrage with your CLOWNISHNESS.
Am I being a bully????
The real question is...are you a CLOWN?!!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 18, 2005 10:23 PM
71. Cynical:

I don't believe I am "pertually [sic] offended" by disagreement; quite the contrary. I quite relish genuine intellectual debate, as opposed to slinging insults, in capital letters or otherwise. If you have a coherent thought to contribute, please do so. Thanks for sharing!

Posted by: bartelby on November 18, 2005 10:37 PM
72. Bartleby--
Is this the type of comments you are encouraging?
" Your wink n’ nod racism fools no one, so why don’t you get it off your chest and tell us. We’re all here for you, lil’ fella. Do share, please…

Comment by bartelby— 9/18/05 @ 12:05 am"
Hard to take your lecture on ethics very seriously when you hurl RACIST allegations at the drop of a hat.
Go ahead & play your pompous little "I'm so Civil" game....no one here buys it ya CLOWN!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 19, 2005 10:11 AM
73. "The only parallel I can think for such a monomaniacal crusade in recent history (setting aside Joe McCarthy)"

Funny you should mention McCarthy....
The Democrats of today, with their serious socialist and communist leanings, are proving that McCarthy was truly on to something! He must be turning in his grave knowing that the communists have infiltrated a major political party.....

How ironic that a liberal democrat troll mention McCarthy....! Is he haunting you?

Posted by: Deborah on November 20, 2005 12:56 AM
74. Cynical sez:
"Hard to take your lecture on ethics very seriously when you hurl RACIST allegations at the drop of a hat."

No, those aren't allegations; I'm merely citing history. Here's just a sample from an article in today's P-I:

"Partisan efforts to limit voter participation are an established feature of the American political landscape. And they are not the exclusive province of any one party: It was white Democrats who spearheaded the systematic exclusion of black Southerners from the polls for most of the century after the Civil War, employing techniques that ranged from literacy tests to murder. The reaction to those practices produced the federal Voting Rights Act in 1965.

"But in the past 40 years, Republican attempts to disenfranchise voters have generated the lion's share of controversy. Generally called "ballot security" programs, they have involved confrontations with voters at the polls on election day, uniformed guards at polling places, posters warning of the criminal penalties for illegal voting and challenges to voter registrations.

"Ironically, in light of Southern political history up to the 1960s, the GOP voter purges have been criticized for zeroing in on black voters and other minorities, a constituency that has proved solidly Democratic since Republicans reversed the racial dynamic of politics in the '60s by their courtship of Southern white voters.

"A GOP ballot-security program in 1981 in New Jersey prompted a federal lawsuit by the Democrats, who claimed harassment of black and Hispanic voters violated the U.S. Constitution and the Voting Rights Act. The result was a consent decree in which the Republican National Committee agreed not to target districts with large minority populations in any efforts that might discourage eligible voters.

"That decree was modified after the 1986 U.S. Senate race in Louisiana, in which the Republicans mailed non-forwardable letters to 350,000 voters in districts that voted at least 75 percent Democratic in the 1984 presidential election -- which in practice meant predominantly black districts. When 30,000 of the letters came back, the GOP moved to challenge the affected registrations based on unreported changes of address.

"Voters sued to stop the purges, and the legal wrangling turned up a memo from an RNC staffer expressing optimism that the ballot security program "could keep the black vote down considerably." The disclosure galvanized black voters, and the Democrat won the election. In the 1986 modification to the federal consent decree, the RNC forswore future use of direct-mail address-change strategies."

Posted by: bartelby on November 21, 2005 12:23 PM
75. bartlebyCLOWN--
You are quoting an "article in the P-I" as your source???!!
You've gotta be kidding me!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on November 21, 2005 01:28 PM
76. Cynical:

Irrespective of the source, the lawsuits and the consent decree are a matter of public record. Can you deny or refute this?

Posted by: bartelby on November 22, 2005 06:44 PM
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