January 03, 2006
Law and Order, Seattle-style

Here in Seattle, they choose not to enforce laws against illegal immigration, corrupt police officers or vote-rigging. They occasionally try to enforce the laws against property crimes, but such crimes nevertheless increased 11% here last year [p. 12].

But don't let all of this apparent lawlessness worry you. Law enforcement is a matter of setting priorities and managing the most serious risks to public safety. And Seattle's top priority is to maintain law and order in its trash cans.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at January 03, 2006 09:37 AM | Email This
Comments
1. This story amazes me. People get the govt they deserve, and Seattle deserves this piece of nonsense.

Studies I have seen say that, except for newspaper, recycling actually uses more resources than producing from new.

But why let a few facts get in the way of a really feel good environmental movement?

Posted by: Janet S on January 3, 2006 09:54 AM
2. God help Seattle if we seperate our plastic and glass improperly...oh the moral horror.

Pity seperating legal and illegal voters is not a priority....

Posted by: Karl on January 3, 2006 10:00 AM
3. It's a job creation program, I tell you! Without this law, how else can you create such a job as "garbage inspectors"?

Posted by: C. Oh on January 3, 2006 10:16 AM
4. In Thurston County residential garbage rate payers are charged a recycle fee on their bill whether they do or do not recycle. If King County also bills its rate payers this way, why not just increase the fee? Or, reduce recyclable / disposable materials. There was a time when milk was found mostly in glass bottles; writing pens were refillable; hardly any junk mail to contend with; diapers were not made of paper; etc. Seems the poor resident is expected to deal with a problem over which they have little control at its source. While the disposition of materials consumed is a serious matter for the quality of life in Puget Sound, we agree with the comment that King County residence get the government they deserve. A higher quality society can be voted in as easily as taking out the garbage.

Posted by: Tacoma Blizzard on January 3, 2006 10:25 AM
5. As always, it's "follow the money". This is being enforced because there is a nice fine attached to it. I believe I heard it was $50? You're right, Karl. Separating illegal and legal votes is absolutely not a priority. Here in Pierce County, they charge more if you do not recycle. However, they also insist on going through all kinds of contortions to achieve compliance, like washing all cans and containers and removing labels, only plastic containers with bases larger than the openings, no lids,no glass, and the list goes on and on. Elderly folks are having a lot of trouble trying to keep it straight, and will eventually be fined for non-compliance. Like almost everything else in the world of regulations, it's a money scam.

Posted by: katomar on January 3, 2006 10:42 AM
6. This issue has always amazed me. Seattle can save $2 million per year by doing this. Wow. Am I supposed to be impressed?
How many people in Seattle are forced by this law to spend how many minutes per week making sure they comply? And that makes how many hours per year? Does that come out to more or less than $0.50 per man-hour? What the lawmakers have (again) failed to consider is the lost productivity of many many citizens.
For the city to invest only $2 million to retain all that productivity is a bargain.

Posted by: Chuck on January 3, 2006 10:49 AM
7. The funny thing is that 1/2 or more of the stuff you recycle gets put in the landfill anyway. They can't find uses for all those recyclables.

Posted by: swatter on January 3, 2006 10:57 AM
8. Next, they will be coming after Stefan and his new three-headed shower head.

After all, Stefan, fish are more important than you are.

Posted by: swatter on January 3, 2006 11:17 AM
9. This is further evidence that there should NEVER be an unemployment problem in the Puget Sound. Need a job? Set up a manual sorting facility. Seattlites can pay an extra $5.00 a month to have somebody else sort their garbage. Who cares if it efficient, it's Seattle.

Posted by: Roscoe on January 3, 2006 11:32 AM
10. Imagine that - your house is robbed, so you call the police, and they show up and arrest you because you have a Coke can in your garbage.

Posted by: BananaLand on January 3, 2006 11:35 AM
11. Stefan, failing to recycle is a gateway crime - we see it all the time. First the offender throws a few aluminum cans in the garbage, next thing you know they're setting up a meth lab or goingon a multi-state killing spree.

You only have to look at history to see that some of the world's most heinous individuals were non-recyclers. Stalin never sorted his trash. Genghis Kahn not only failed to recycle, but was a litterbug as well.

Besides, this new focus on curbside eco-terrorists gives SPD a good variety of motivational tools to encourage its officers to work harder. Put in 110% and you'll be rewarded with a spot on the lap dance law compliance team, screw up and you'll be tossing cans in the U-District and writing tickets for every single Pabst Blue Ribbon that lands in the garbage.

Of course, I think its only a matter of time before Jim McDermott is able to uncover that the recycling program is merely a ruse to let President Bush spy on everyone's garbage contents...

Posted by: Kevin on January 3, 2006 11:36 AM
12. It was disappointing to me to realize that too many important laws go unenforced here. and public officials get away with discouraging amounts of not-so-good stuff. We can only hope that changes.

Posted by: Michele on January 3, 2006 11:42 AM
13. Talk about a slippery slope here. Garbage collection is a utility service similar to power, water and sewer, is it not?

Just how big of a leap is it for these same authority figures to mandate use of alternative energy sources before they turn off the lights for non-compliance?

Unreal.
"Recycle or we won't pick up your garbage until you do."
And you think we've got an illegal dumping problem now? Just wait.

Posted by: jimg on January 3, 2006 12:05 PM
14. If a (real) crime happens at your home, when you call the police tell them someone broke into your house and put recyclable containers in your trash. They will be right over!

Posted by: fred on January 3, 2006 12:06 PM
15. And how will they know that you are not recycling unless they manually search your garbage. Forgive me here, old age creeping in, however I thought a search warrant was required to search one's house, vehicle, garbage, etc.

I don't live in King Co., however I have always put my garbage in the tall kitchen bags and when half-two thirds full then place it in a large black trash bag (tied)and then put it in my can. And I repeat that process thru out the week. Does that mean the garbage police will be untying my bags to see if I am complying with the law?

Posted by: Janet on January 3, 2006 12:08 PM
16. Whether or not recycling should be a high priority or not, Stefan, it's not like the city is about to start sending police officers around to inspect people's garbage and issue tickets.

There's really no need to mingle completely separate city departments and governments in order to make your point about liberals in Seattle, is there?

Posted by: Mickymse on January 3, 2006 12:28 PM
17. Failing to recycle is a gateway crime...to owning a burning barrel.

Posted by: Andy on January 3, 2006 12:29 PM
18. You don't need a warrant to search through trash once it has been thrown onto the curb, if you have discarded it, then it is not protected by the 4th amendment.

How will they enforce this law at apartment complexes if one person puts recyclables in the bin, but the other 30 people living there do not?

Posted by: Jason Woodruff on January 3, 2006 12:44 PM
19. I have a question, If an individual Seattle homeowner disposes of a cigar butt in the trash will the trash police cite them for disposing of Hazardous waste improperly? What would be the alternative disposal method? Burning perhaps?

Posted by: Roscoe on January 3, 2006 12:47 PM
20. Jason - actually you do need a search warrant. It does not belong to the city until it is in the truck. This is actually fortunate for the city, as if it were not your property, they could not fine you unless they saw you mix the two types of trash.

Posted by: fred on January 3, 2006 01:00 PM
21. fred, on Law and Order they said it was their trash when it was placed on City property for pickup.

Who do we believe? The writers on Law and Order or yourself who probably has the real answer.

Posted by: swatter on January 3, 2006 01:33 PM
22. Say the P-I Editors: "The power of the law is now on the side of right and recycling. A little pain could lead to a lot of gain."

So beady-eyed inspectors now snoop in our outgoing garbage, hoping to find recyclables. When they do, said garbage will be summarily dumped back on the senders until they learn their lesson - that they must conform to uber-mandated recycling behavior, regardless of their own wishes. How quickly the lefties jettison the concept of the right to choose.

But it can be worse - what ever happened to the right to privacy? We've been deluged by cries of alarm from the media about Federal monitoring of international phone calls from Al Quaeda sorts, as if our civil rights are irretrievably lost thereby. But City monitoring of our garbage is OK? If it is thought that failing to meet an arbitrary quota of 60 percent recycling exceeds the importance of failing to prevent attacks murdering thousands of innocent civilians, we need some less highly educated - and more practical - individuals among our media elites.

Posted by: Hank Bradley on January 3, 2006 02:07 PM
23. I'm sitting here at the Starbucks in Ballard watching the city employed parking meter pay station helpers take one of their 12 breaks a day sitting at the tables outside of Starbucks smoking in violation of the new ordinance. You would think for $15.00 an hour they might get vertical once and awhile and obey the law. Wait a minute, laws are only for non government employees. I forgot.

Posted by: swassociates on January 3, 2006 02:32 PM
24. Swatter,

I thought there was some USSC decision (I think under Nixon) that threw out a decision against someone because the FBI went through their trash before the city picked it up. They were then required to let the truck pick it up and search the truck.

If it is the city's property at the curb, who will the city fine? If it is their property they would have to fine themselves. If it isn't a felony (which presumably it is not???) law enforcement would have to witness the "crime of placing recyclables into government property" being committed before they can ticket/fine. As trash is usually placed into the containers inside, they could never witness it.

It would also be interesting how they would prove you put it in there as opposed to someone else when it was sitting out on the public curb, but that is a different issue....

Posted by: fred on January 3, 2006 02:48 PM
25. We havien't seen anything yet.
Wait until these liberals really get the tax and spend revenue machine turning.

Just as Mick says, "There's really no need to mingle completely separate city departments and governments in order to make your point about liberals in Seattle, is there?" Under the liberal mandate, soon all departments will be equally busy spreading the misery and liberal stupidity.

Lazy a$$ liberals will be dumping garbage everywhere, parks, rural areas, conservative neighbors' yards, you name it, and the city/county/state governments will respond with more fines, penalties, and restrictions. Liberal city dwellers will bitch and moan because their rent is increased to cover the fines, and then demand rent control. With a little help from the MSM and propaganda paid for with our tax $ they can make a reeeel mess.

Just like a local version of what Bill Clinton said when elected in 91, "Let me show you what government can do." And then there was 9/11.

Sort-of like a snake eating itself . . . liberalism is truly a mental disease.

Posted by: Amused by liberals on January 3, 2006 02:59 PM
26. Does the law talk about apartments? The last time I lived in an apartment the dumpsters were community dumpsters, so what happens when there is recyclables in the community dumpster? Does the apartment owner/management get fined?
How is it fair for the apartment owner/manager to pay the fine for their tenants dumping recyclables in the community dumpster?

Posted by: JustSumGuy on January 3, 2006 03:42 PM
27. So does this mean that the information solen from Michael Steele's trash by the Charles Schumer staffers will get off because they were simply looking for recyclable violations instead of sensitive financial records? What if a Seattlite has thier ID stolen after an inspection of trash? Who will inspect the inspectors? I realize this is actually a full employment act for Evergreen State grads, but it seems to be a little over the top.

Posted by: Oscar in the Can on January 3, 2006 03:47 PM
28. May I suggest you visit the recycling center in South Seattle some time (if they'll let you) and watch what really goes on at the other end. I would estimate about 10% of the carefully-sorted waste actually makes it into a recycling stream; the remainder is $hit canned along with regular garbage. The paper sorting line is particularly amusing; think Lucy and Ethel wrapping chocolates...

Posted by: Organization Man on January 3, 2006 04:39 PM
29. Stunning watching liberalism at work.

When the viaduct pancakes, lets make it a community recycling project!!! Oh Joy!!

Motto of the muddled: If it doesnt work, lets do more of it.

IE: public school busing, recycling, San Fran gun control, govt intervention in health care, light rail, apartments for homeless alkys......why we could just go on and on, just like the never ending Mad Hatter's Tea Party....

Liberalism is truly a mental disorder, disconnected from fact, reality and history.

Posted by: THS on January 3, 2006 04:54 PM
30. There's a saying, "Expect what you inspect." I'm afraid Seattle is on its way to becoming a well organized trash can!

Posted by: Fed Up on January 3, 2006 06:32 PM
31. From Janet S. - "Studies I have seen say that, except for newspaper, recycling actually uses more resources than producing from new."

Link us please, I've actaully seen recycling businesses that are profitable without any grants or governmental funding.


From Swatter - "The funny thing is that 1/2 or more of the stuff you recycle gets put in the landfill anyway. They can't find uses for all those recyclables."

I call bullshit, spouting off does not make what you say true. There are always buyers for recycled paper, glass, plastics, and metals. If you are referring to the statistic that 5-15% of materials that people attempt to recycle are not recyclable (due to contamination or from TFA plastic food trays, plastic cups, stained pizza boxes and aluminum foil), then please learn how to make an appropriate point.


From BananaLand - "Imagine that - your house is robbed, so you call the police, and they show up and arrest you because you have a Coke can in your garbage."

It's disappointing that Stephan alluded to this in his post, however, please recognise that the enforcement is not done by the police. Comparing this to "setting priorities and managing the most serious risks to public safety" is rediculous.


From Janet - " have always put my garbage in the tall kitchen bags and when half-two thirds full then place it in a large black trash bag (tied)and then put it in my can. And I repeat that process thru out the week. Does that mean the garbage police will be untying my bags to see if I am complying with the law?"

RTFA Guys,
"They won't open bags, but if they can tell just by looking into the can that there's more than 10 percent that could've been recycled". I could actually throw all of my recycling in with my garbage and be in compliance since I doubt I reach 10%.


From TFA - "The real gap in local recycling lies with commercial properties and businesses. About 30 percent of that garbage is paper."

My security training has taught me that not only is this a waste, but this is also a major vulnerability. A good deal of corporate espionage is done via TRASHINT (trash intelligence) and is entirely legal. From this perspective local businesses should make it a policy to collect all paper waste and have it shreaded and recycled.

Posted by: Grog on January 3, 2006 06:40 PM
32. Well, come on. Think about it. One must show respect for all those Gentle PC Toilet Seat Liners that invariably end up there.

Posted by: ERNurse on January 3, 2006 07:19 PM
33. Yes, liberalism is a disease that results in a total disconnect from reality. More of the same is always the answer. This blind adherence to the failed policies of the past is most likely the result of brain damage from smoking crack.

Did you hear that ex-DC Mayor Marion Barry was robbed at gunpoint? (Though it may sound like a joke, I assure you it's true.) This occurred in DC, which has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. And Hizzonr's solution? More gun control laws!

Liberal idiots (oops, need to turn on the redundant redundancy checker) - and they're not even useful - can't form a coherent argument. For example, they'll scream, cry, pout, and otherwise throw a tantrum when accusing President Bush of ordering legal wiretaps against foreign agents (but did you hear a peep from the same demented crowd when President Clinton ordered a warrant less search of a US citizen's HOME? I didn't think so). Their main argument goes something like this: because our founding fathers established the legislative branch in Article I of the Constitution the legislative branch has supremacy over the executive branch (established in Article II). But of course the judicial branch (Article III) has supremacy whenever it usurps the constitutional power of the legislative and executive branches to make laws consistent to the liberal's worldview.

But when it comes to gun control, the liberals wet themselves over the idea of banning guns, in violation of the 2nd Amendment, throughout the country, at which time the entire populace will spontaneously burst out in song, the words to John Lennon's "Imagine" filling the air. Why, even those nasty conservatives will be able to sing, for a miracle will occur and their cold little hearts will be filled with love for their fellow defenseless sheep, and the words to "Imagine" will be known to all. But I digress.

So, in the Constitution, the order of the articles matters, except when it doesn't. The same applies to the Bill of Rights. The 1st Amendment is of paramount importance, that's why it's first; except that liberals can suppress and censor conservative and religious speech because it fits their sense of "fairness." The 4th Amendment is inviolate, unless a democrat authorizes a warrant less search of a US citizen's home, and "unreasonable searches and seizures" means any search and seizure of the phone conversations of a non-US citizen plotting to kill thousands of innocent women and children (oops, I forgot, they're not innocents, they're evil, greedy, capitalistic imperialists). Then there's the 5th Amendment where "public use" means giving your property - your home, your castle - to another private party.

So in the liberal's fantasy world, 1 comes before 2, and 2 before 3, except when 3 comes before 1, and 2 comes before 1 when a democrat is in the White House. Furthermore, 1 comes before 2, which always comes after 4, and 5 goes to the end of the line after 10 (which doesn't exist when a democrat is in the White House), and it all depends on what the meaning of the word "is" is.

That's why one should never argue with a liberal. First, you'll never win; they change the rules to fit their sense of fairness. Second, even though you'll never win, they'll never win either due to their lack of ability to formulate a coherent argument. The frustration that brings will cause the liberal to get flustered and start to bluster, at which point they'll "prove" their intellectual superiority by calling their opponents names and throwing food. At least we can take comfort in the fact that we won't actually be hit with projectile food products thrown by liberals. They throw like girls.

Posted by: LockedandLoaded on January 3, 2006 08:08 PM
34. LockedandLoaded, very well-put. It echoes my oft-repeated sentiment, that attempting to reason with a liberal is like polishing a turd.

Posted by: ERNurse on January 3, 2006 09:14 PM
35. Turd polishing - the McDermott agenda. Moonbat city ! Politically correct pukes! Now you see why King County must be split into Seattle and non-Seattle portions, so this leftist-wing nut mental disorder can be contained. We need Cascade County ASAP !

Posted by: KS on January 3, 2006 09:21 PM
36. The Mayor and the Seattle City Council are forgetting their place in the political hierarchy.

They are not our masters, we are their masters and when the hired help get uppity we can their fat asses.

We did not elect the Mayor and the members of the City Council to have them tells us to pick through the trash. That is their job. We pay them good money and it is about time we got something in return from them besides bitching and snooty lectures about recycling.

And when they're finishing sorting the trash they should do something about the goddamn potholes that are cropping up all over the place.

On second thought screw the recycling and fix the potholes.

Posted by: Bill K. on January 3, 2006 10:10 PM
37. Lots of name changes in the comment section?

grog, just what the heck were you complaining about? No, I am not going to start using my Sears catalog as toilet paper.

I am also a recycler, but come on, this law is ridiculous. And did you also read organization man? Common knowledge and a ton of news articles stating that there is no demand for the reclyclables does not require quotes or clicks to web pages. Just contact your local garbage collector.

Posted by: swatter on January 4, 2006 07:49 AM
38. I'm not complaining, read again. I'm correcting the mistakes that others have made, since people don't analyse the facts before posting, let along RTFA.

You don't need to worry about your stupid sears catalog, throw it out, no one will do anything to you (as long as your can isn't 10% full of sears catalogs).

If your recycling company can't find a buyer for the materials they have collected, they need to learn to market them.

Are you telling me that there are no businesses that have a need for paper, plastics, metals, and glass?

Posted by: grog on January 4, 2006 03:18 PM
39. No grog, but the retailers (recyclers) can't keep up with the demand as it is. So why the law?

Posted by: swatter on January 5, 2006 07:40 AM
40. Now here I thought Seattle liberals were strongly pro-choice. Except when it comes to garbage and smoking I guess.

I don't live in Seattle, but I recycle anyway. That is my choice.

Posted by: Palouse on January 6, 2006 07:56 AM
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