January 12, 2006
Election Reform Bills in Olympia

The vote-fraud-addicted Democrats in the Washington House of Representatives have proposed this bill to make voting easier for illegal immigrants who don't speak English: HB 2594 "Providing assistance to non-English speaking voters"

The Senate Republicans have proposed SB 6333 "Requiring photo identification at the polls" It makes sense, except for the part about getting to vote a provisional ballot if you don't have ID. The pro-fraud Democrats will undoubtedly object to the photo ID requirement, equating it with Mississippi ca. 1960 or some other over-the-top nonsense. Voting fraud advocates sued in federal court to stop Georgia's photo ID requirement, calling the $20 fee for state ID a "poll tax". If the $20 fee is too expensive for some, that is an argument for means-testing the ID fee, not for disallowing the requirement to show ID at the polls.

Senate Democrat bills SB 6362 "Modifying voter registration provisions" and SB 6134 "Allowing canvassing boards to issue notices of civil infractions" will also facilitate voting fraud by obstructing and deterring legitimate voter registration challenges.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at January 12, 2006 12:00 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Not all Foreign Language speaking people are illegal immigrants. Wouldn't you rather people read a ballot in the language that they understand best so that they know who they are voting for?

Posted by: Jason Woodruff on January 12, 2006 12:09 PM
2. Darn, Stefan!

Now all of my migrant apple pickers will be able to vote! What a bunch of horse-pucky! How's a conservative like me gonna keep my GOP cohorts in office if my little picker-oonies go and vote demacratic?

I say, if they cain't understand the ballot, they cain't vote...especially if it means more demacratic votes.

Posted by: rossi too on January 12, 2006 12:12 PM
3. Jason,

No. They should be able to read and understand the official language of the country in which they reside.

Question: Have you ever had difficulty in discerning the true meaning of certain initiatives on the ballot, having to read them several times in order to understand them? I have. How can we be sure that a Chinese or Spanish or Vietnamese or Russion translation of these conveyes the proper meaning? We can't and we shouldn't.

English is the official language of the United States. Washington is one of these United States. What's the debate?

Posted by: Larry on January 12, 2006 12:14 PM
4. Photo ID, hmmmmm. Will this be a fee based requirement? How will one get to the Department of Voter Photo and Registration? Will the Department of VP&R have a mobile unit similar to the library's? What if I am homeless and have no money, how do I pay? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh, wait. I forgot......

You RightWingNuts want to prevent every possible Democratic voter from getting to the polls. Homeless unemployed people will vote for Democrats and thereby be raiding your pockets for more handouts.

The standard is, and has been, a signature verification of identity. Placing more road blocks will only serve to disenfranchise even more voters, but that is your ultimate goal. What is next, a minimal education standard and a passing grade on an apptitude test? Perhaps we can require proof of employment and home ownership as requirements to vote. Then you will have the voter base that you RightWingNuts can live with. Give me a break.

Earth to RightWingNuts....come in?

Posted by: My Left Foot on January 12, 2006 12:19 PM
5. Actually Larry, you're mistaken. The US has no official language. That's the problem.

Posted by: Skor Grimm on January 12, 2006 12:20 PM
6. Thanky Jesus, thanky Lord!

Larry is on my side! If they cain't understand, they cain't vote!

Thanky too that 'ol indapendent/demacrat timmy sheldon is voting GOP agin this season. Mebby he'll stop all this homosetsual equality crapola too.

Posted by: rossi too on January 12, 2006 12:21 PM
7. English is NOT the official language of the United States, but this descendent of Yiddish-speaking immigrants thinks that it should be.

I did not say that all people who lack mastery of English are illegal immigrants, only that this bill would make it easier for illegal immigrants to vote. It would also make voting easier for legal immigrants who are ineligible to vote. Very, very few citizens do not have sufficient grasp of English to vote. This bill would only (a) facilitate voting by non-citizens, and (b) advance the spread of linguistic separatism, neither of which is healthy. This bill also discriminates in favor of the particular language minorities which happen to meet its odd and narrow criteria.

Better that the government not pick and choose among linguistic minorities for special favors. Any private organization that serves a particular ethnic community is free to publish a voters' guide in its language that helps its community understand the English ballot.

Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on January 12, 2006 12:21 PM
8. rossi too -

In Washington State, and also for federal elections, you need to be a US citizen to vote.

If you've have lived your entire life in the United States as a citizen, then you should already know English by the time you reach voting age.

If you are an immagrant who became a naturalized citizen, you needed to pass an English proficiancy test before you were sworn in.

Therefore, all people who are legal to vote should already know English, so why is this bill necessary?

Posted by: Mike H on January 12, 2006 12:22 PM
9. If I recall correctly, one of the requirements in order to become a US citizen is the ability to read and write English to a degree of proficiency. Since only US citizens ought to be voting, there should be no issue with respect to ballots being printed only in English.

After all, it's not like non-citizens will be voting, right?

Posted by: chunkstyle on January 12, 2006 12:27 PM
10. Is it not the case that one must be able to read, understand and speak English in order to become a US citizen?


And furthermore that one must be a US citizen in order to vote?


There are exemptions to the English requirements, but one must be over fifty, and have lived in the US for more than 15 to 20 years. In those cases, the individual must take the civics test with the aid of a translator, which they must provide themselves.


If they've lived in the country for over fifteen years, and haven't managed to pick up enough English to comprehend a ballot (I'm not going to get into the problem of understanding the candidate's positions), wouldn't it be sufficient to allow them to utilize their translator at what few polling places there are left?

If they're voting by mail, they can have the ballot translated for them in the comfort of their own home by whatever relative actually deals with the rest of the country for them. They could even have that relative fill out the ballot for them. Why not? It's not like there will be much difference. Their relative-translator could be telling them that one of the candidates is going to be handing out stacks of twenties after they win, and how would this non-English speaking voter know any different?


So what kind of assistance is legitimately needed?

Posted by: G Craff on January 12, 2006 12:31 PM
11. Skor,

Thanks for the correction. Where can I find that copy of the U.S. Constitution in German in the Library of Congress? ;)

I suppose if we decided to make English the official language of the U.S., we'd face a backlash from the same type of people that favor this bill - including My Left Foot and Rossi Too.

I stand by my comments, however. I don't believe that 'John Kerry' would be listed as anything other than 'John Kerry' in any language. But the requirement to precisely translate all the initiatives on the ballot into a number of different languages is too costly and too difficult to maintain.

Posted by: Larry on January 12, 2006 12:31 PM
12. Left Foot:
Photo I.D.? Hmmmmm. Guess I'll go rent a video, or write/cash a check, or pay with a credit card somewhere, or even buy cold medicine. But I guess most voters don't do those sort of things, right?

Posted by: katomar on January 12, 2006 12:36 PM
13. How will one get to the Department of Voter Photo and Registration?

Take the bus.

Posted by: Mike H on January 12, 2006 12:37 PM
14. As someone who is a naturalized citizen, I can attest to you all that the English proficiency requirement to become US citizen is a joke. All one has to do is to review a known set of questions and answers in verbal format, and nothing more. That said, I contend that a fair percentage of naturalized citizens aren't proficient in English enough to read and understand a piece of legislation, candidate profile, etc.

Nonetheless, this is a bad legislation that will only help those who are willing to cheat.

Posted by: C. Oh on January 12, 2006 12:41 PM
15. Mike H....

Nice to know that my Costco card will qualify me to vote. And now you are adding that I have to have a credit card too. I did not think my credit score could disqualify me from voting. You RightWingNuts are tougher than I thought.

Not everyone has a credit card, a checking account or a membership at Costco. I realize the majority of voters are mainstream, but we can not leave behind those that are not.

Posted by: My Left Foot on January 12, 2006 12:43 PM
16. The bus costs money. Believe it or not, some folks lack bus fare. I know in the world of RightWingsNuts this kind of poverty does not exist or is due solely to a person's desire to live this way through their own purposeful actions. Again, EARTH TO RIGHTWINGNUTS.....Come in?

Posted by: My Left Foot on January 12, 2006 12:47 PM
17. katomar - the issue isn't whether or not most voters have state issued ID, the issue is whether it constitutes a poll tax for some. Do you mean to deny the homeless or others who cannot afford to spend an extra 20 bucks on state ID their right to vote? That would be a 20$ poll tax which is illegal. If state ID was made to be free (State issued ID, not driver's liscences) I might go along with an ID requirement, but it should be ruled unconstitutional as it stands.

Posted by: Patrick on January 12, 2006 12:50 PM
18. Mike H....

Nice to know that my Costco card will qualify me to vote. And now you are adding that I have to have a credit card too...

First off, get your facts straight... katomar said that, not me. Try actually reading what was written. Second, his point was that you have to have photo ID for to cash a check, use a credit card, or buy cold medicine, not that you can show a credit card to vote.

Please read what people actually wrote next time before you make yourself look like a fool...

Posted by: Mike H on January 12, 2006 12:50 PM
19. I agree with Larry.

Note the requirements for language assistance:

"(a)(i) More than three and three-fourths percent of the voting-age citizens in a county belong to a single language minority community and have limited English abilities; or (ii) More than seven thousand five hundred voting-age citizens in a county belong to a single language community and have limited English abilities;"

In any of the "single language minority" communities do we have an accurate count of how many are citizens and how many are immigrant (legal or otherwise)?

Does anyone really believe that the county governments are really going to separate the citizens from the non-citizens?

How does this law match up with the U.S. Citizenship an dImmigration Services requirements?

a period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States;
residence in a particular USCIS District prior to filing;
an ability to read, write, and speak English;
a knowledge and understanding of U.S. history and government;
good moral character;
attachment to the principles of the U.S. Constitution; and,
favorable disposition toward the United States.

There is an English exception:
What if I cannot meet the English or
civics requirements? Certain applicants,
because of age or disability, have different
English and civics requirements.
Age — There are three important
exemptions for testing based on age:
(a) If you are over 50 and have lived in
the United States as a Permanent
Resident for periods totaling at least
20 years, you do not have to take the
English test. You do have to take the
civics test in the language of your
choice;
(b) If you are over 55 and have lived in
the United States as a Permanent
Resident for periods totaling at least
15 years, you do not have to take the
English test. You do have to take the
civics test in the language of your
choice;

3.75% of voting age in a single language community.... So, based on the registered voters list from 2005, if Garfield County has just 57 people in the category, they must print bilingual ballots, hire bilingual staff and poll workers, etc. Doesn't sound like a very fiscally responsible bill either.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on January 12, 2006 12:51 PM
20. LeftNut--
How many people do not have some form of photo ID? I know NO ONE in that category. As far as your concern about "Cost of ID" how noble of you. That can be easily addressed. If you are so worried about any cost to underprivileged voters, why were you such an advocate of ALL-MAIL VOTING you KLOWN. Postage is now 39 cents. That's a cost to voters.

Stefan---
At some point, it would be helpful to Chronicle all the examples of unfair/illegal voting practices you have uncovered and post it somewhere PERMANENTLY so all of us can e-mail it to our friends on the RIGHT and the LEFT. I know it is a pretty big project, but I have over 200 names on my e-mail list....and many of them have as many or more names. Associations can e-mail members etc. I have seen how a well chronicled e-mail can circulate. It's amazing.....and worth a try. I would send a copy to every media outlet in the State.....that would be a great list to circulate too!
All you can do is what is in your control....right?

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on January 12, 2006 12:54 PM
21. The bus costs money.

I knew someone was going to say that...

If you can't afford bus fare, then you couldn't afford to go to the library or elections department to pick up the voter registration form. You also couldn't afford a computer or internet service to download the registration form (or the paper to print it on).

If that is the case, you have far bigger and more pressing problems you need to be worrying about than whether or not you can get a photo ID to vote.

Posted by: Mike H on January 12, 2006 12:58 PM
22. Thank you, Mike H. for clarifying my point. Another point is, has anyone ever determined just how much of the homeless population does not have photo ID of some sort? Most of them have not been homeless and poverty stricken from birth to the age of voting. We have to assume they had some sort of life before their present unfortunate circumstances. If the fee for photo ID is a problem, and the State of Washington desires to have these folks vote, which is admirable, then perhaps they could waive the fee for photo ID? Just a thought...

Posted by: katomar on January 12, 2006 01:00 PM
23. Larry:
As has been stated, there is no official language of the United States. And no, I have never not understood any of the ballot initiatives, or other measures on a ballot. I take the time to read a voter's pamphlet way ahead of time and decide exactly which way I want to vote prior to going to the ballot. I read the entire text of the initiatives.
I agree that there needs to be some way to only allow legal voters to vote, such as asking citizenship, or requiring ID, but having multiple languages is not a bad thing.
Some english proficiency should be required, for example being able to dial 911 and get emergency help to your house, but if people are more comfortable voting in spanish, as voting is so important to do correctly, I don't have a problem with that.

Posted by: Jason Woodruff on January 12, 2006 01:03 PM
24. If state photo ID is an issue - give it to those that can show financial burden for FREE. Probably 99% of the voting age citizens have valid photo ID.

Not that it matters with all mail voting....

I wonder, how much would it cost to replace polling places with certified handwriting experts?

Posted by: SouthernRoots on January 12, 2006 01:03 PM
25. There is no reason that voting should not require Photo ID. The left can go to h**l if they try to protest by making a case from something taken totally out of context. The Republicans need to call bull***t on them at that point and make a big issue of it and hopefully they have the cajones to do that.

Renting a video at Blockbuster Video and Hollywood Video typically does. This is such horse-pucky. English is not our official language yet - so sorry no grounds for disqualifying it.

Posted by: KS on January 12, 2006 01:04 PM
26. Cyniclown,

I am certain that you are sincere in your rantings. I am just as certain that you are wrong. You have a list of 200 email addresses? You know, just 10,000 more and you can sell your list. Make a little money. I am sure someone out there would buy a list of RightWingNut addresses fluffed up with the some lefty addresses that you have gotten from the HA site.

It does not matter how many folks don't have ID. You can't refuse someone their right to vote no matter how much you might want to. I know that world domination is on the RightWingNut agenda, but please, pull your head out. It is simply not going to happen. Lets meet back here in mid November when you are crying about losses in the Congress and still moaning about voter fraud and wishing Dino had not asked for all those recounts.

Posted by: My Left Foot on January 12, 2006 01:06 PM
27. Renting a video at Blockbuster Video and Hollywood Video typically does (require photo ID).

Posted by: KS on January 12, 2006 01:06 PM
28. Let's face it.

In Washington State, it is to the Republicans advantage to limit the number of voters.

Any proposal they put forward (e.g. this absolutely ridiculous photo one) will be seen for what it is...a blatant attempt to restrict rights.

Posted by: LovinUSA on January 12, 2006 01:10 PM
29. As Americans we have never beer required to carry "papers". Now you want to start. Here comes big brother. Reminds one of certain European countries in the 40's.

Posted by: My Left Foot on January 12, 2006 01:10 PM
30. MLF - B.S.

Ever drive? You're REQUIRED to have "papers"- driver's license, proof of insurance, registration.

Ever try to fly lately? You're REQUIRED to have photo ID.

Ever have a job? Social Security number.

These are only three examples of government REQUIRED "papers" you must have to do certain activities. If you aren't doing those activities, then you don't have to have the "papers" with you 24/7.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on January 12, 2006 01:16 PM
31. You can't refuse someone their right to vote no matter how much you might want to.

ALL rights carry with them responsabilities. If showing you are who you say you are in order to excercise that right is too burdensome a responability to require of people, then what a truly messed up world we live in...

Posted by: Mike H on January 12, 2006 01:17 PM
32. Why is there such a ruckus over proving who you say you are when you vote? We all have to prove we are who we say we are nearly every day of the year, carrying out some transaction or other. Why should voting be any less valid a reason? Unless, of course, some folks consider it desirable that a person who is NOT who they say they are wants to vote.

Posted by: katomar on January 12, 2006 01:19 PM
33. Jason Woodruff:

"I take the time to read a voter's pamphlet way ahead of time and decide exactly which way I want to vote prior to going to the ballot. I read the entire text of the initiatives."

So.....you read the voter's pamphlet in English, correct? Are you willing, as a taxpayer, to foot the bill to have the voter's pamphlet correctly and precisely translated into Spanish, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Indian, Russian, Polish, Czech, German, Gaellic, Dutch, Finnish, Swedish, Snohomish, Illiniwek, and any other yet-to-be-determined language? Are you willing to divert limited funds within our state Elections Commission in order to accomplish this? And how can we as English-speaking citizens be absolutely certain that these initiatives have been correctly translated when the various counties in our state cannot reconcile ballots tabulated to votes cast?

Otherwise, you just proved my point.

Posted by: Larry on January 12, 2006 01:21 PM
34. Ah Stefan.

I thought you had all this under control? Now they won't let Lori Sotelo file bogus challenges any more? What in the hell are they thinking?

This is an ugly day in Wershington state history...first the bi-linguals get to vote, then they want to take our right away to challenge voter registrations without proof.

Dammit!

at least we got the picture id requriement in there. i'll just show 'em my sam's club card and they'll let me vote agin.

Posted by: rossi too on January 12, 2006 01:22 PM
35. To be a citizen you need to be proficient in English.

Applicants for naturalization must be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language.

From Citizenship requirements.

To vote in Washington you need to be a citizen.

declare that the facts on this voter registration form are true. I am a citizen of the United States,...

From RCW 29A.08.230.

Ergo to vote you are required by law to speak English to vote.

Conversion the logical syllogism is that is illegal to support non-English voting.

Posted by: JCM on January 12, 2006 01:26 PM
36. SB 6362 is bad.

1. It requires a challenger to notify all political parties (by mailing copies of the challenge). If I have a beef with a neighbor, why is it my responsibility to notify ANY political party?

2. They are changing the definition of a non traditional address. Instead of registering at a public building near them:

A voter who lacks a traditional residential address will be registered and assigned to a precinct based on the location provided, and has the option of using the address of a county courthouse, city hall, or other public building near the area that the voter considers his or her residence.

I guess this makes mailboxes valid locations.

However, this bill does require someone with a traditional address to use that address in registration.

Unfortunately, the bill still requires that the challenger show the address of where the voter actually resides. As shown with the mailbox registrations, this is impossible. The law should have a provision to allow cancellation of a registration is it is proven that a person can not actually reside at the address listed as the residential address.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on January 12, 2006 01:48 PM
37. A U.S. citizen has the right to vote (unless it is taken away). If a citizen has the right to vote, the State has an obligation to provide that citizen with a meaningful opportunity to exercise that right. If a citizen is to have a meaningful opportunity to vote, he or she has to be able to read or understand the ballot. There is no english language proficiency or literacy requirement for voting. To fail to provide a translation of the ballot necessary to a sizeable portion of the population strikes me as a deliberate attempt by the State to prevent those people from voting.

The language proficiency required for citizenship is minimal -- small, simple words I believe is the standard. I think your beef is not with this bill, but with the administration of the citizenship program, that is, with the federal government.

As to the problem of non-citizens voting, how many non-citizens voted in 2004? My recollection of Stefan's postings on the issue is that he had found two out of nearly three million voters. I'm sure my recollection is dated, so please correct me if it is inaccurate, Stefan.

Posted by: Martin Brody on January 12, 2006 01:50 PM
38. Leftie. Don't know if you realize it, put postage costs money too in order to mail in the ballot. And how are these people going to get to a post-office to buy the stamp (poll tax?).

You are reading too many D talking points. I have not seen anyone on this site that wants to stop anyone voting, as long as they are legally allowed to. You (to use your language of "You RightWingNuts want to prevent every possible Democratic voter from getting to the polls. Homeless unemployed people will vote for Democrats and thereby be raiding your pockets for more handouts") LeftWingMoonbats want to prevent every possible Republican voter from having their vote count by making it as easy as possible for illegal voters to vote and cancel out the Rs vote.

Posted by: fred on January 12, 2006 01:55 PM
39. We all just KNEW the Dems would take this opportunity to make fraud easier, in the name of 'Election Reform'. Their 'reform' is a deception. A big, fat deception.

Posted by: misty on January 12, 2006 02:00 PM
40. rossi too: if said apple pickers aren't even citizens, WHY WOULD you want them to vote? You aren't making any sense.

Posted by: Misty on January 12, 2006 02:01 PM
41. Martin Brody,

"To fail to provide a translation of the ballot necessary to a sizeable portion of the population strikes me as a deliberate attempt by the State to prevent those people from voting."

You've got to be kidding me. Currently the voter's pamphlet is printed in English, Chinese, Spanish, Korean, and Russian. Are you willing to foot the bill as a taxpayer to have it translated into any, and possibly every, other language on the planet?

As a frequent traveler to Poland, I'm insulted that it isn't printed in Polish!! Seattle has a sizeable Polish population. We're discriminating against the Polish people and disenfranchising them! As a citizen of Ireland, I think the state is preventing Irish people from voting becuase the pamphlet is not printed in Gaelic! We're discriminating against Native Americans! Where are the pamphlets in Navaho and Iroquois??

Where do we draw the line? Why should we spend limited funds and resources to print in all these different languages when county elections commissions still cannot reconcile votes cast to ballots tabulated?

Posted by: Larry on January 12, 2006 02:06 PM
42. misty:

hell, i don't know if my apple pickers are citizens or not. i don't check the id's. i just know they'ze willin to work for a buck an hour. and when or if they get to vote, you just know they'd vote in some libral demacrat to get me to give 'em a raise!

Posted by: rossi too on January 12, 2006 02:09 PM
43. Larry, where do we draw the line?

Ssshhh! next thing you know, they'll want a GOP language version too, and then everyone will know what the hell we're talking about.

We can't let that cat out of the bag!

Posted by: rossi too on January 12, 2006 02:13 PM
44. Rossi and all of you,
Please tell me what your vision of a democratic utopia is? Does no-one vote or does everyone vote.
Does no-one have money or does everyone have the same amount?
Exactly what is your goal in allowing all these illegal votes to be counted? Are you saying that all citizens of earth have the right to vote for street improvements on my block.
I am being serious, help me to understand your position.

Posted by: dan on January 12, 2006 02:38 PM
45. I have to assume that no one commenting here on the issue of photo ID has actually read the text of the proposed law. If they had, they would know that it includes provisions for indigent persons to obtain a photo ID at reduced or no cost.

Before you attack a proposal, make sure you know what it says...!

Posted by: Patrick on January 12, 2006 02:51 PM
46. SouthernRoots,

"I wonder, how much would it cost to replace polling places with certified handwriting experts?"

Even if you were able to accomplish feat, it would only tell you who signed the envelope, not who filled out the ballot.

Posted by: RBW on January 12, 2006 02:59 PM
47. other Patrick @ 2:51,
I have read the text of the bill and I think the section you refer to is the portion beginning on line 6 of page 2 of the bill. If I am wrong and you aren't talking about the identicard being proposed, then please clarify. Line 11 and 12 point to fullfilling requirements set out in RCW 29A.44.205 which requires identification an "indigent person" (language in the bill) might not have, and which might cost money. do you disagree? I do have to admit that the bill will still allow such people to cast a provisional ballot, but how long untill the republican voter suppression effort tries to take that away?

Posted by: Patrick on January 12, 2006 03:15 PM
48. Here is a url for how Georgia is modifying its required voter photo ID.

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/georgia/entries/stories/0106/voter_id_bill_r.html

Posted by: Bob in SeaTac on January 12, 2006 03:24 PM
49. IMHO neither of these bills will accomplish much in the line of encouraging or preventing fraud, but they do serve to show the contrasting positions between how Liberals and Conservatives approach democracy. Liberals work for a system that encourages and facilitates participation in decision making and conservatives seek to limit participation. Which do you think is more in keeping with our traditional American democratic values?

Posted by: Claire on January 12, 2006 03:28 PM
50. Claire -
My take is that most liberals don't care about following the laws and most conservatives would like everyone to have a level playing field by following the law.

Which is in keeping with our traditional American Democratic values?

Posted by: dan on January 12, 2006 03:40 PM
51. Hey dan,

rossi too and all the others are just talking out of their arse. They don't actually take their talking/spewing points to their logical conclusion.

Posted by: Danny on January 12, 2006 03:42 PM
52. Patrick
There is no "republican voter suppression effort." That's spin, or it is ignorance, or it is a lie, or it is a paranoid, delusional conspiracy theory, depending on whether the person using the language is a politician, an ingnoramous, a socialist liar, or a delusional person suffering from mental illness.

The rest of us understand that the republicans are just trying to assure that illegal votes, cast by anyone belonging any or no party, do not cancel the votes of legal voters, regardless of party (or non-party) affiliation. We also understand that democrats benefit disproportionately from fraudulent or illegal voting in this state and therefore they are against real reform that would actually limit or eliminate it. Its just politics - and the democrats currently have the power to get away with it. Voting reforms crafted by democrats are therefore ineffective by design - the text of the bills under discussion here makes that obvious; it proves the point. That's the truth; it should be the end of the "argument," but the spinning, lying, witless commenting, and pathological ranting will continue - it always does.

Posted by: srogers on January 12, 2006 03:49 PM
53. danny,

I have to say that you're right because they won't respond to civil questions about their beliefs. Tells me they really don't know what to think, only what's fed to them.

Posted by: dan on January 12, 2006 03:55 PM
54. Liberals work for a system that encourages and facilitates participation in decision making and conservatives seek to limit participation.

Claire is absolutely correct.

Liberals work for a system that encourages everyone to participate... including the folks who aren't legally supposed to, even if it means they break the law by voting. Laws don't matter, as long as everyone (including non-citizens, folks registered in other jurisdictions, felons, etc.) get a say... and if they can say it two or three times, all the better. Conservatives work for a system that seeks to limit the participation of those aren't legally supposed to be participating in the first place.

Which do you think is more in keeping with our traditional American democratic values?

Posted by: Mike H on January 12, 2006 03:59 PM
55. Claire,

I have adjusted your quote so that it truly reflects reality:

Liberals work for a system that encourages and facilitates participation in decision making BY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT U.S. CITIZENS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE DEAD and conservatives seek to limit THE participation OF PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT U.S. CITIZENS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE DEAD.

Which is more in line with our traditional American democratic values?

Posted by: Larry on January 12, 2006 04:03 PM
56. SB 6134 is also a bad idea. It basically says that if you bring a challenge and the canvassing board rules against your challenge, they can fine you.

You may feel that you have the most compelling evidence and a great case and they just have to disagree with (or worse, ignore) your evidence and your are at risk for a violation.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on January 12, 2006 04:07 PM
57. Dad, you are disgracing the family name. To say this politely, "Just shutup, will you?"

trey

Posted by: roosi trey on January 12, 2006 04:08 PM
58. Correct - SB 6134 is a bad idea. Anything that gives more power to a half-a$$ed (as it is set up now)canvassing board only creates more corruption. Mike H & Larry - you got it right for what Claire is really saying. Patrick - I don't care how people get their photo ID, just as long as it is legitimate, so what's your problem ?

Posted by: KS on January 12, 2006 04:30 PM
59. A question for anyone, as I haven't read the fine print on the bill yet...

Let's say the "evil" Republicans get their way and succeed in their "oppression of the masses" with this bill (yes, I'm being sarcastic)... if one were to not have a valid ID when the vote, could they still vote with a provisional ballot?

If so, and no one is then being prevented from voting, what's the problem then?

Posted by: Mike H on January 12, 2006 04:38 PM
60. Can anyone tell us how many unofficial languages the Utopian Society of France supports in it's voting process?

Posted by: MrEdly on January 12, 2006 05:08 PM
61. There were voters disenfranchised in the 2004 election. Every voter in King County that ended up in that "no signature on file" fiasco were affected. The ones that were disenfranchised were the ones that the third party people gathering signature affidavits ignored after they discovered how they had voted. Doesn't matter - both sides did it.

From SB 6134:

"primarily considered the voter's political belief, political activity, or any characteristic protected by the law against discrimination under chapter 49.60 RCW; or (4) issued a challenge in bad faith or in an effort to intimidate, harass, or otherwise deter a properly registered voter from voting."

I think this form of wording should be used to ban the third party practice.

I think that any person that was contacted by the third party and was denied a chance to fix their signature issue has a valid claim to a civil rights violation.

I also think that no auditor should be allowed to turn over to third parties the responsibility of notifying voters of issues with their ballots.

Posted by: SouthernRoots on January 12, 2006 05:13 PM
62. CLUBFOOT
TRY THIS WHEN YOU GO ON YOUR NEXT VACATION AND YOU TELL THE POST OFFICE TO HOLD YOUR MAIL OR YOU CALL THE 1-800 NUMBER TO PLACE IT ON HOLD WHEN YOU GO TO PICK IT UP THEY REQUIRE PHOTO ID.SO FROM ALL THE EXCUSES YOU HAVE COME UP WITH ABOUT PHOTO ID.THERE ARE TWO OPTIONS FOR YOU DONT GO ON VACATION.OR HAVE PHOTO ID IF YOU WANT YOUR MAIL ITS THAT SIMPLE.AND LET ME SAY ALSO IF YOU ARE HOMELESS AND HAVE YOUR MAIL IN GENERAL DELIVERY NO PHOTO ID NO MAIL.

Posted by: AL on January 12, 2006 05:30 PM
63. Left Foot,
What you have a Fruedian Slip?
"Homeless unemployed people will vote for Democrats and thereby be raiding your pockets for more handouts."

Are you really admitting that the WA and/or Natl Democratic Party is really buying homeless people's votes with government handouts?
Is that not in itself vote fraud?

Posted by: Mike P on January 12, 2006 06:30 PM
64. i could believe all the rightwingnutburger protestations about, "all we want is honest elections" if i didn't have the recollection of a certain pussy sotelo of mercer island lying to the tune of 2,000 signatures that she had personal knowledge that these people did not live where they said they lived on their voter registrations.

and you know what: none of you nutburgers had any problems with that lie. the problem with you is that you are so convinced that you are right that , for you, the end justifies the means.

Posted by: clay shaw on January 12, 2006 06:31 PM
65. Larry: The voter's pamphlet already does have braille editions. We don't need to send a pamphlet in every language to everyone, just make them available. I personally believe that we should have to pay to get a paper copy, and leave a digital copy for free. Anyone can access the internet by using the public library.

29A.32.010
Printing and distribution
The secretary of state shall distribute the voters' pamphlet to each household in the state, to public libraries, and to any other locations he or she deems appropriate. The secretary of state shall also produce taped or Braille transcripts of the voters' pamphlet, publicize their availability, and mail without charge a copy to any person who requests one.


As for people fearing others being denied the right to vote without photo ID, I say BS. I am denied the right to carry a concealed weapon without carrying all sorts of papers, and that is a right guaranteed by one of those amendments in our Constitution.

Posted by: Jason Woodruff on January 12, 2006 06:34 PM
66. Loony Leftwing Foot: The current laws aren't enforced now so requiring ID is just a reasonable attempt to make sure only eligible voters mark ballots on election day. And the RCW provides ways for the "homeless" to become registered voters if they qualify. In case you haven't noticed, Lefty, even the folks selling the Spare Change paper now have photo ID. You must not get out much if you aren't aware of how many times one must provide proper identification. If you are truly concerned about the homeless not being able to afford proper ID, get off your duff and start a fund with your like minded liberal buddies to pay the fees. Of course being a typical liberal, you will think the fund is a good idea but that it should be funded by the taxpayers. Heaven forbid you actually step up to the plate and provide a solution to a problem.

The voter rolls in this state are a national disgrace. What we should do is start over by requiring every one to re-register with proof of citizenship and photo ID. As for your predictable hue and cry about the elderly and infirm not being able to get to the official places to re-register, that can be handled through senior centers and nursing homes. I've been down this road helping elderly relatives get the help they need to vote in a timely manner, so I don't want to hear any whining about not understanding the situation. Absentee voting should be limited. Maybe with fewer ballots the election clowns wouldn't have to take off their shoes to help them reconcile what comes in with what went out.

Posted by: Burdabee on January 12, 2006 06:48 PM
67. Hey clay,

Try being clever again. That last attempt fell way short. No star for you.

Posted by: Danny on January 12, 2006 06:50 PM
68. Clay Shaw, Claire, Mr. X and other spokespeople for the Democrat Party. With your lame protestations against accountibility for voters and other such nonsense, it is easy to see why the Democrat Party has gone to h**l at the national level - is in the minority and its only a matter of time before they become a minority party in this state - it is turning off decent human beings (maybe not human refuse).

Here's a concept; Stop hiding behind lieing, cheating because you think you'll get ahead, not holding voters or politicians accountable for anything and try a new approach by using honesty and integrity in your message and you'll get alot farther. Your party may be ahead right now, but the lead is melting away especially now with the Legislature in session.

Posted by: KS on January 12, 2006 07:01 PM
69. This is America! EVERYONE has a source of identification.

The liberal's who post to this site have ID. The homeless have ID to purchase their alcohol, cough medicines, cigarettes, etc.. My children were assigned Social security numbers at their birth! If you rent, purchase anything by check or credit card, purchase restricted items, etc...you have identification.

If you attend a public school - 7th grade or higher - you are given a student ID card!
If you've been arrested, hospitalized, sued...you've been identified! You are in the system somewhere.

Anyone who claims that poverty and/or some fantasy of "complete" privacy excludes them from an ID requirement in America - is probably in an extreme state of paranoia and wouldn't risk voting anyway! In those few isolated cases - they disenfranchise themselves!

The fact is - in this corrupt state of Washington - everyone who votes, must show valid identification! Period! We can't trust voters otherwise. Period. Does this remove the opportunity of fraud? No. It just lessens it. Unfortunately - our corrupt liberal legislature and our corrupt Ron Sims and King County elections department have found numerous ways to continue to commit fraud. They have purposely enacted several new systems (ie; All Mail voting, etc.) that will increase their abilities to create "voter intent" without audit and oversight.

Requiring ID and restricting illegal immigrant's from registering to vote are only the beginning of serious election reform.....We have a long way to go...and the state Democrats aren't going in our direction.

Posted by: Deborah on January 12, 2006 07:15 PM
70. Clay Shaw: Either you weren't at the hearings involving Ms. Sotelo or you slept through them. Or you believed the Dean Logan Spin Notes of the whole process. Stop relying exclusively on Airhead America radio and the local papers for your information. Of course I am not surprised at your reaction--why let facts get in the way of a good emotional outburst.

Posted by: Burdabee on January 12, 2006 07:50 PM
71. Requiring Photo ID to vote is a poll tax...........as much as having to put a stamp on your vote to mail it in is a poll tax.

Posted by: Marmstro on January 12, 2006 08:48 PM
72. I would be more in favor of slipping to the Dems side on this one if it weren't for the fact that the new paragraph 3 of Section 1 doesn't specify which census data will be used. In 1990, the census shifted to a dichotomous counting method where one count included everyone residing in the US and the second count was limited only to citizens. The issue of printing extra languages is almost strictly a cost issue, but if you were to use the total population numbers to determine which languages you should print you could conceivably print languages that only qualified because of non-citizens while denying the desired access to those who slipped just below 3.75% thanks to using the wrong demographic pools. This should be amended to reflect that the population percentages should be based on information contained in the most recent US Census counts of US citizens.

If that were corrected, I wouldn't have an issue with passing the language bill given the current political climate. I would also then support legislation creating an official language for government business as well. This idea that our culture was created by an amalgam of languages, histories and practices of immigrants does not extrapolate to the idea that we should never define national culture was. The immigrants who largely populated our country in the 19th and 20th century, including my grandparents, certainly never believed this nonsense that they should be cushioned from the perils of everyday life in such a way that it protects their right to nonassimilation.

The theory is, after all, that we're a melting pot. I never understood why the Dems seemed to want to change it to a state where every inclination to actually "melt" should be removed. That's a recipe for cultural fragmentation, not cultural evolution.

Posted by: Marc on January 12, 2006 08:51 PM
73. Some historical background:

Rules on voting have generally gotten much more permissive the Constitution was ratified. At that time, most (all?) states had property requirements and other restrictions on voting. So the idea that restrictions on voting are un-American can be held only by some one who knows little of our history.

And, after the end of Reconstruction, Southern Democrats imposed severe restrictions on voting to reduce the black vote. (The restrictions also reduced the voting by poor whites -- as may have been intended.)

Endemic fraud, especially in the cities, led many states to impose controls on voting, such as registration or mechanical voting machines. Most often, that fraud was committed by Democratic politicians -- sometimes against other Democrats.

So we have gone back and forth, trying to find the right balance between ease of voting and control of vote fraud. In my view -- and it is one held by many nonpartisan vote experts -- we have made vote fraud far too easy, and are getting more of it as a result. I think it certain that fraudulent votes gave Christine Gregoire her margin in 2004 and likely that fraudulent votes gave Maria Cantwell her margin in 2000.

I can understand why dishonest Democrats -- and there are a few -- would like that result, but I can't understand why any honest person, regardless of their party, would. And I will go a little farther: When I see people arguing against common sense checks on fraud such as photo identification, I wonder about their integrity.

There is an illuminating exception to the Democrats' desire to have as many as possible vote, the military. Some Democrats, notably in Florida in 2000, have made considerable efforts to reduce the military vote.

Posted by: Jim MIller on January 12, 2006 08:55 PM
74. Multi-lingual ballot questions:
Why do I have to show major i.d.’s to buy cold medicine but not to vote?
Why are ballots printed in 2,000 languages at my taxpaying expense, yet toilet paper labels are in English?
Why do people feel the need to not assimilate into a culture they CHOSE FREELY to be a part of?
Why do “needy” or “disenfranchised” bilingual voting people prefer non-English ballots, yet can count their U.S. Greenbacks with the eye & accuracy of a Vegas card dealer?

Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on January 12, 2006 09:03 PM
75. Congrats to Stefan for once again making a news report on Komo online about the new state voter database!

Posted by: sgmmac on January 12, 2006 09:31 PM
76. Stefan,

You said a mouth full! Of corse Defeatocrats will Object! What else is new!

It Just figures!

Stefan Sharkansky your blog is invited to: to the 25 year celebration of Reagan Presidency!

Posted by: dcat on January 12, 2006 10:24 PM
77. burdabee: everything you say is a projection of your own problems onto others. to quote pee-wee herman: "i know you are, but what am i?"

Posted by: clay shaw on January 12, 2006 10:30 PM
78. I've been in Wa three years now.

I personally registered to vote without providing ID, received three ballots in the 2004 election, and was not ask for ID at the polls in the 2005 election.

In KC, they just don't give a crap who you are, you can vote. more than once if you want. (i didn't)

I don't get how people can actually spin this as a good and noble thing.

Posted by: dave on January 12, 2006 10:39 PM
79. Left Foot and all your buddies.....

Why should we have to register to vote at all? Isn't that an obstruction to voting? You should be ranting that we shouldn't have to, we should be able to vote for any race/issue anywhere.

Do you believe that Canadians should be able to vote in our elections? If not, what are you going to propose to do to stop them?

Why should the government pay to have other languages printed up? Why don't groups like La Rasa or MoveOn.org pay to have them done? Wouldn't that be best? Also, shouldn't they help pay for those that can't pay for a photo id? Why don't you help?

Or even better, they can take the time to translate the voters pamplet into their language and learn it. THen they will learn english quicker and be able to vote.

Maybe you don't want people to not learn English and thus keep them from bettering themselves? Then you can be a racist that you are (those that always call out race, he's black, asian, Jew, etc. thus a racist. You see everyone by their race rather than who they are, thus a racist...like Kennedy, Feinstien, Gregoire, Sims) This isn't to say you want to string someone up or burn a cross, but you perpetuate a belief that minorities are victims and can't make it......that is incorrect in America and minorities that make it aren't stooges, they are Americans!

OK, let's try and make this State a great state once again by 1st making sure that only Washington Citizens are voting. If that then happens and the society keeps going down the toilet then so be it, but I don't think that will happen if we really have one legal vote for every legal voter.

Posted by: Dengle on January 12, 2006 11:11 PM
80. the people complaining about the $20 state i.d. ("1950's poll tax") card did so by calling on their $69.99 monthly cell phone while sipping their $3.50 daily fancy coffees; free school breakfasts & lunches, anyone?...jump on the disenfranchised bus;

Posted by: Jimmie-howya-doin on January 12, 2006 11:13 PM
81. I find it interesting that the state of California requires every person 16 years or older, to possess and carry a picture ID.
Not to vote but to walk the streets. If you do not have a drivers license, you get a picture ID from the dept. of motor vehichles. $10.00
Seems to me that if we had that requirement, it would serve as voter ID without being considered a poll tax.

Posted by: Jim L on January 12, 2006 11:18 PM
82. Here we go again...

Somebody either comes to our country or is born here, expecting to enjoy the full benefits of living here, yet they choose not to adopt the English language. How do you suppose that would go over if the average English speaking American moved to another country and refused to learn the native language?

Is it really too much to expect people who live in this country to learn how to read, write and speak English?

Posted by: Gary on January 12, 2006 11:42 PM
83. This article will probably be the most important thing you have read in a while. Learn it, know it, live it.

Ciy Journal Magazine: The Left's Campaign To Rein In Political Discourse


I hope that Stefan and others on this site pick up on the significance of this story, particularly as it relates to what went on during I-912 and Rep. Jay Inslee.

Fortunately, this is exactly why we should be excited about the timing of the Supreme Court turnover and the appointments of Roberts and soon, Alito. Liberals love to get their panties in a bunch about Roe v. Wade, which was clearly an unconstitutional decision. But compared to what the Soros/ MoveOn.org left has planned with regards to decimating the First Amendment, Roe v. Wade is small potatoes.

There is a reason why it is the "First" Ammedment.

Readers, please, click on the link and read the article above in its entirety, and SP bloggers, please make some posts on this topic.

Thanks, JB

Posted by: Jeff B. on January 13, 2006 12:25 AM
84. Jeff B--
Wow...thanks for sharing this. It is incredibly dangerous. So many of the LEFTIST PINHEADS are merely KLOWNS....but these efforts are dangerous. Isn't it amazing the paradox the ACLU finds itself in on this one. I know several ACLU members who are actually struggling philosophically with this...as they should be.
So the ARBITERS of FREE SPEECH and HATERS of the PATRIOT ACT have secret lives tearing down Free Speech?? Interesting.
The other thing these LEFTIST KLOWNS love to do is shut down opposing views by feigning personal offense and personal attacks. It's a classic LEFTIST tactic. Some are actually so programmed to respond to those who disagree with them in this way....they actually believe it!
When the KLOWNS accuse people of a personal attack, many pause & back off legitimate arguments. I prefer to insult the even more!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on January 13, 2006 06:23 AM
85. Jeff B--
Wow...thanks for sharing this. It is incredibly dangerous. So many of the LEFTIST PINHEADS are merely KLOWNS....but these efforts are dangerous. Isn't it amazing the paradox the ACLU finds itself in on this one. I know several ACLU members who are actually struggling philosophically with this...as they should be.
So the ARBITERS of FREE SPEECH and HATERS of the PATRIOT ACT have secret lives tearing down Free Speech?? Interesting.
The other thing these LEFTIST KLOWNS love to do is shut down opposing views by feigning personal offense and personal attacks. It's a classic LEFTIST tactic. Some are actually so programmed to respond to those who disagree with them in this way....they actually believe it!
When the KLOWNS accuse people of a personal attack, many pause & back off legitimate arguments. I prefer to insult them even more!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on January 13, 2006 06:23 AM
86. Jeff B--
Wow...thanks for sharing this. It is incredibly dangerous. So many of the LEFTIST PINHEADS are merely KLOWNS....but these efforts are dangerous. Isn't it amazing the paradox the ACLU finds itself in on this one. I know several ACLU members who are actually struggling philosophically with this...as they should be.
So the ARBITERS of FREE SPEECH and HATERS of the PATRIOT ACT have secret lives tearing down Free Speech?? Interesting.
The other thing these LEFTIST KLOWNS love to do is shut down opposing views by feigning personal offense and personal attacks. It's a classic LEFTIST tactic. Some are actually so programmed to respond to those who disagree with them in this way....they actually believe it!
When the KLOWNS accuse people of a personal attack, many pause & back off legitimate arguments. I prefer to insult them even more!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on January 13, 2006 06:23 AM
87. Most of these arguments are moot, people. At least here in Snohomish County. You see democrats are in charge now, and we will vote by mail. I.D.? Who needs that? Vote early..... and vote OFTEN!

Posted by: Bad Bob on January 13, 2006 07:57 AM
88. I don't know why some here are spending so much time harping on this when we could be be doing something about it. But do we press our Republican leaders to man up, spine up, and smack down this latest affront to our rights as American citizens?

Noooooooooooooooooooo.

There comes a time when talk should cease and action should begin. We spend more time whining about how the legislature is robbing us blind, and yet when the people you elected betray you by voting for the things they said they would oppose, we just go ahead and let them. What changes to the Republican party have we seen since the great betrayal of last session?

Zero. Nada. Zip-a-dee-doo-da.

Do you see the pattern? The most vocal whiners are the ones who support the RINOs simply because they are Republican, and "we just gotta have more Republicans in the legislature." Well, with republicans like the ones you guys support, who the heck needs Democrats?

But what do we do? We continue to back the same spineless dogs over and over again. How many times does one have to pee on the electric fence before arriving at the conclusion that it is not a good idea? It's one thing to have a sense of righteous indignation and dismay over key Republicans suddenly defecting during crucial votes. It's another to keep backing them, as is the case now with so many of the most vocal proponents of the party as it now exists.

It is no wonder that the Democrats at every level of government in this state regard Republicans as a bunch of patsies. Why shouldn't they? Our leaders continue to betray us, and we snivel for awhile and then just bend over and let them do it again.

But God forbid that we should expect our Republican leadership to reflect our core conservative values on the floor of the legislature. Noooooooooo. We are afraid that people won't like us and that we won't be allowed to play in the Olympia sandbox. We should just try to look and act as much like the opposition as we can so we can have reach that all-important d*mned goal of putting a bunch of R's in there. And then you wonder why they keep letting the opposition steamroll them. Here is a clue: because they ARE the opposition.

The WSRP is in desperate need of a RINO-Be-Gone enema. Until that happens, the party will continue to be the Democrats' band whore in this state.

Posted by: ERNurse on January 13, 2006 08:12 AM
89. dengle: alito doesn't think one-man-one-vote is constitutional.

you could look it up.

apparently, the people at diebold ( company motto: "all the democracy that fits into our narrow band of awarenes"


bad bob: we don't want diebold touch-screen machines used in snohomish county anymore. they are rigged to make republicans win. that may not be a problem (morally or otherwise), but it is for democrats. you are the liars and election cheats and that is changing in this state. the democrats should sue you for your unfounded allegations and outright lies.

jim miller is the worst. he pretends to centrism and reasonableness, but he's in reality just another blind ideologue -- or he's a lawyer for corporations.


Posted by: clay shaw on January 13, 2006 08:17 AM
90. Jeff, the article is smashing. I am not surprised. As regards the Alito confirmation and the turnover of SCOTUS, I would remind you of two words: States' rights. Even if SCOTUS reversed some of the outrageous rulings, state governments will continue to skirt the rulings for as long as they can. Don't expect immediate relief.

Second, we have seen how effective our calls for federal intervention in our corrupt election system have been. Funny- anyone else hear about a federal investigation? Nope. Neither have I.

Since the Democrats have essentially changed the form of govenment and elections in this state to favor them at every level, and since the federal government is showing a marked disinterest in our predicament, it stands to reason that if relief is going to come to this state, it is up to us to make it happen.

Anybody got any ideas? You sir; in the back row.

"Hey! Let's put more Republicans in the legislature! Oh, wait. They had as much to do with getting us into this crisis as the Democrats..."

We are on our own here. Nobody is going to help us out of this mess but ourselves. There are three choices for us: to lead, to follow, or to get the hell out of the way. My suggestion of options for the RINO supporters among us would be the latter two. You guys have made things bad enough in this state by supporting the traitors with whom we are currently afflicted. You are as much to blame for this mess as anyone else. You have done enough damage for a generation. With Republicans like you, who needs Democrats?

Posted by: ERNurse on January 13, 2006 08:29 AM
91. mlf said, "wishing Dino had not asked for all those recounts."

let me see, the first count is required by law. the first re-count is required by law. the second recount was requested by and paid for by the queen bitch and her band of thugs.

guess a pinhead can't let the facts get in the way of his talking points.

Posted by: Locked And Loaded on January 13, 2006 09:12 AM
92. "The WSRP is in desperate need of a RINO-Be-Gone enema. Until that happens, the party will continue to be the Democrats' band whore in this state.
Posted by ERNurse at January 13, 2006 08:12 AM"

Well, well said.
Now let's start with a F*CKING AGENDA!
Not some mamby-pamby, touchy-feely pander to the LEFTY's one but one that starts with the #1 Issue:

TRANSPORTATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How can the R's develop a contract with Washington without addressing specifically what we will do TO EASE CONGESTION!!!!!!!!!!!!
God, let's focus on real issues.
What will we do, how will we pay for it, HOW CAN WE BETTER UTILIZE EXISTING FUNDS!!! Savings, savings, savings. If we can't come up with a better plan than the current one, WHY IN THE HECK WOULD ANYONE VOTE FOR OUR CANDIDATE!!!!!!!
The next issue is EDUCATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ER Nurse....well said.
The problem is we have some very good R's in the Legislature and some Spineless, look-at-me types that water everything down. I know some electeds like DeBolt are trying hard to herd these cats. They would rather discuss hybrid cars and rapists. Things NO ONE would be against...avoiding the tough technical issues.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on January 13, 2006 09:31 AM
93. clay - Diebold rigs for republicans? Where is the proof of this? I've heard it before from the left, but just because you say something enough times doesn't make it so.

As for electronic voting machines, I do have hesitations about using them, security being one and audit trail the other, but they are more secure and have a better audit trail than mail.

As for Alito, where was that ruling that he made against the constitution? Please link. Maybe you made a mistake and where thinking about Chucky Schumer.

Also, I was thinking this morning....is Left Foot really Ted Kennedy? Both sound the same....rambling, incoherant and drunk.

Posted by: Dengle on January 13, 2006 09:47 AM
94. ERNurse,

Don't get me wrong. I am happy about the Supreme Court nominations, but I still belive we should be on the watch and aggressive is making sure that the suppression of political discourse goes no further.

We should start right here in WA with Rep. Jay Inslee.

As it gets closer to the election, we will make sure that the questions to Mr. Inslee get asked clearly and loudly in as many forums as possible to expose his ideas for what they are, suppression of the First Amendment.

And I suspect that we will even have the help of the left leaning bloggers on this one, as they too stand to be silenced if this kind of legislation goes forward.

Posted by: Jeff B. on January 13, 2006 10:17 AM
95. It isn't just Inslee. It's Finkbeiner. It's all the other Democrats who davertise themselves as Republicans, but that any human being with a functioning synapse would identify as Democrat- unless you happen to have drunk the WSRP RINO koolaid.

This isn't merely an 'electability' problem, as some here would insist. This is a cultural problem brought on by the people who have shipwrecked this party for the sake of 'electability.' Well, look where their 'electability' got us.

At what point are we going to flush the toilet on these 'electable' turds?

Posted by: ERNurse on January 13, 2006 06:09 PM
96. Correction to last post, par. 1: should read 'advertise.'

Posted by: ERNurse on January 13, 2006 06:12 PM
97. As we watch Washington State head into the abyss right behind California, you can thank the RINOs of our state like Finkbeiner.

For some unbelievable reason republicans here came to the conclusion that it was necessary to move to the left in order to be elected. Now we begin to see just how wrong they were.

Posted by: jaybo on January 13, 2006 11:29 PM
98. Don't be surprised in Finkbiener gets voted out in November.
A vast majority of the people are not in favor of this law. Especially, once the details are understood (the devil is in the details) - I'm sure that Stefan with expose them in due time. If they decide to strike some of the most detrimental details - that is an accomplishment of sorts, but don't think the leftists of the legislature will do that, because the Trial Lawyer and other gay lobbies would not like that and would not fund their reelection campaigns as well. I have heard this referred to as the Democrat Incumbent replacement bill.

There is actually a bright side, in that the Dems have been given enough rope and they fixing to hang themselves.

Posted by: KS on January 14, 2006 12:33 PM
99. I was referring to Gay rights protection act legislation in the above thread. As for the bills mentioned above - the Dems have been given enough rope and are salivating about using it so they can court the illegal vote. They believe that the MSM is covering adequately for them so they figure that they can get away with it unscathed.

An initiative to repeal this kind of crap would be fitting - in time for the November election will not help the Dem incumbent reelection campaign. The opposition needs to communicate this clearly to the voters, though - or the dumbing down phenomenon will occur.

Posted by: KS on January 14, 2006 12:41 PM
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