King County Executive Ron Sims and Councilwoman Julia Patterson have an op-ed in today's P-I whining about a supposed lack of funds for bus service
Our buses are often full, people throughout the county want more and we lack the funds to expand service ... All we need to do is step up and identify new ways to pay for the added rides to get people out of their cars and onto buses so we can all win[Emphasis added]. Not that the solution should be much of a surprise to anybody, but this morning's Seattle Times has a no-nonsense op-ed telling Patterson and Sims what they surely already know: Even though "Grandiose rail schemes do little to reduce congestion", the voracious Sound Transit takes resources away from the parts of transportation system, such as buses, that actually do some good. And Sims and Patterson should understand this better than almost anybody else. They are two of the biggest and most mindless cheerleaders for the Sound Transit boondoggle. Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at February 21, 2006 09:08 AM | Email This
I also agree that bus service is more flexible than tight routed rail.
But, "often full". Yes, during commute times, but at other times, I see all these "often full" buses disguised as empty buses.
I see an insatiable thirst from the metrosexuals for our tax dollars for too many projects to relieve congestion.
I will first support getting jobs where people work. Then I will go with reducing all these multibillion dollar fixes- road-bus-rail- that no one can reach consensus on.
Posted by: swatter on February 21, 2006 09:24 AMI can see it now--if we concerned taxpayers would just ok a small tax, then we would not only get a whole six more buses, but also lots of ugly public art, the pleasure of paying for "research" trips to Singapore, Hawaii, and Las Vegas, and the civic pride of subsidizing whatever multimillionaire is having trouble with his money losing sports franchise. Gosh, how can we possibly pass up such a deal?
Posted by: Burdabee on February 21, 2006 09:33 AMCrap in, crap out.
Next time, vote REPUBLICAN!
Posted by: A Watchdog on February 21, 2006 09:44 AMThey're about lucrative economic opportunities for politicians, friends of politicians, and other wealthy moochers in the business of public transportation scams.
Posted by: ken on February 21, 2006 09:48 AMThere really is nothing wrong with a long, long term rail strategy. I would be all for a 100 year plan to put rail into the Sound region in a carefully and financially reasonable way.
But instead what we have are these "bet the farm" short term rail fantasies, where the serviced areas are anything but the major lines that would actually generate real ridership.
One of these days, rail is going to become the third rail of Puget Sound politics and it's going to cost a lot of Democrats like Sims and Patterson their seats.
Not long before even Joe Democrats gets fed up with yet another rail fantasy.
Posted by: Jeff B. on February 21, 2006 10:27 AMBus.
Walk to bus stop 5 min
Bus to transit center 10 min
Wait for transfer to CT 8 min
Bus 21 min
Walk to Office 20 min
Total 65 min
Difference
53 minutes one way.
Total cost of driving fuel, maintenance etc according to tax tables $3.45
Cost of bus fare $1.25
Difference saving $2.20
Time loss value $17.92 - $2.20
I lose $22.80 in real value (my time) if I take the bus one way.
Or it would cost me $45.60 to take the bus everyday.
Tell me again how taking the bus is GOOD!
I suspect many commuters make the same calculations and come up with similar results.
Like the PI today the only way to move commuters is to raise gas taxes and artificially skew the equations.
Posted by: JCM on February 21, 2006 10:32 AMWell, start by FIRING Sims' limo driver and force Sims to ride the bus that he claims to love. Isn't that obvious?
Posted by: Misty on February 21, 2006 10:33 AMAnother One Rides The Bus
by Al Yankovic
Lyrics:
Ridin' in a bus down the boulevard
And the place was pretty packed
Couldn't find a seat so I had to stand
With the perverts in the back
It was smellin' like a locker room
There was junk all over the floor
We're already packed in like sardines
But we're stoppin' to pick up more
Look out
Another one rides the bus
Another one rides the bus
And another comes on
And another comes on
Another one rides the bus
Hey
He's gonna sit by you
Another one rides the bus
There's a suitcase pokin' me in the ribs
There's an elbow in my ear
There's a smelly old bum standin' next to me
Hasn't showered in a year
Well, I think I'm missin' a contact lens
I think my wallet's gone
And I think this bus is stoppin' again
To let a couple more freaks get on
Look out
Another one rides the bus
Another one rides the bus
And another comes on
And another comes on
Another one rides the bus
Hey
He's gonna sit by you
Another one rides the bus
Yeah
Another one rides the bus
Another one rides the bus, ow
Another one rides the bus, hey, hey
Another one rides the bus, hey
The window doesn't open, and the fan is broke
And my face is turnin' blue
I haven't been in a crowd like this
Since I went to see The Who
Well, I should've got off a couple miles ago
But I couldn't get to the door
There isn't any room for me to breathe
Now we're gonna pick up more, yeah
Another one rides the bus
Another one rides the bus
And another comes on
And another comes on
Another one rides the bus
Hey
He's gonna sit by you
Another one rides the bus
This here is funny sh*t, I don't care who y'ar!!
Posted by: Mr. Cynical on February 21, 2006 10:34 AMYour analogy is not only off base, it is ludicrous.
Find a copy of Sound Move and you will see that
Sounder Service was never supposed to run all day, it
was to operate during the peak commute hours only. The
Light Rail, on the other hand, was to run all day and
provide a connection to downtown from the Tacoma Dome
Station, which it does. How can you justify running
the Express Bus service on exactly this same route
when there are whole communities in Pierce County with
no service? Oh, that's right, you don't need to
justify it. As long as the "downtown business owners"
are kept happy, that's all that counts to the powers
that be around here. So what if service hours that
could provide service where there is none are wasted
on a service that is 100% redundant while other
residents have no service. I understand, you have no
intention of seeing to it that the taxpayers dollars
are not wasted.
DAN
--- John Ladenburg wrote:
> Under that logic, we would stop Sounder service to
> Seattle since we have redundant service with Express
> Bus. We are creating a multi-modal transportation
> system which gives users different options. All
> over the world this has proven to be the best
> transportation system. I realize it's all new to
> Washington State since no one has ever attempted
> this here, but it is really quite common and
> accepted elsewhere.
>
> >>> 10/08/03
> 08:06AM >>>
> Are you out of your mind, or do you just not care to
> provide as much service to as many residents as
> possible with the resources available? Why else
> would
> anyone advocate operating two services, one of which
> is REDUNDANT when other areas of the County have NO
> SERVICE. Rest assured this issue does not affect me
> personally, the service to my home is adequate,
> however this is the exception and not the rule when
> you look at the County as a whole. Perhaps you can
> explain to me, just exactly what do you see as your
> role on the ST Board if not to look after the
> interest
> of the residents' of Pierce County's interests first
> and the interests of the residents of the region
> second and not pandering to the King County
> Executive.
>
> DAN
> --- John Ladenburg wrote:
> > You seemed to be referring to a news article, one
> > which I have not read, so I cannot comment on
> Sim's
> > statements. On the local issue, we are keeping
> the
> > service in place to monitor it's use during the
> > early phase of light rail service. There may be a
> > desire to have both. We will continue to look at
> > ridership and will discontinue if the route is not
> > cost effective.
> >
> > >>> 10/07/03
> > 01:47PM >>>
> > What I am referring to is the King County
> Executive
> > stating that future planned increases in Sounder
> > service could be scaled back if funding falls
> short
> > for Light Rail from downtown Seattle to Tukwila.
> It
> > appears to me that you have no intention of
> opposing
> > that stance.
> >
> > On another note, you are on the board of Sound
> > Transit, are you not? WHY IS SOUND TRANSIT RUNNING
> > REDUNDANT EXPRESS SERVICE TO 9th & COMMERCE , WHEN
> > THE
> > LIGHT RAIL ALREADY SERVES IT? This impresses me as
> > further evidence that ST has no intention of
> > spending
> > the public's money wisely. Furthermore since we
> have
> > the Light Rail "up and running" why continue tying
> > up
> > traffic and tearing up the roads in downtown
> Tacoma
> > by
> > operating bus service that duplicates the rail
> > service.
> >
> > DAN
Let's see if you can give me a straight answer. Does
the City of Tacoma support Sound Transit operating
Express Bus service that duplicates Light Rail? Light
Rail is "up and running" so why continue running
Express Buses to 10th & Commerce while other parts of
the City are either un-served or are under served. The
answer I get is that people like choices, well let's
see riders to 10th & Commerce get multiple choices
regarding public transportation and people in other
areas get the choice of walking or staying home. Some
Choice!!!! Wouldn't those service hours (4500+) be
better used providing service where there isn't any or
augmenting service to an area that is under served?
Cancel every bus line that does not manage to at least pay for the drive and maintenance on the bus. Immediately.
There. Billions saved.
Next problem?
Posted by: Al on February 21, 2006 10:56 AMMust not let us peons have freedom, that's to dangerous.
They tax me to pay for the bus, then tax my time to the tune of $11,000 a year if I do.
And they wonder why I am so cranky about transit!
They've watched way too many sci-fi movies with all those wonderful people mover utopias. Add to that a Stalinist mindset of "if we command it, it will be so," and you get the current bunch of transit loons running the joint.
Driving my full size pickup to work every day is cheaper than transit. Add to that the ability to run errands, change my schedule, respond to family stuff is incalculable.
Posted by: JCM on February 21, 2006 11:52 AMI saw nothing in the article that hinted at the possibility of raising the fares paid by riders as a way to increase revenue.
Is it conclusively presumed that riders shouldn't pay any significant part of the cost of operating the buses on which they ride?
Posted by: Micajah on February 21, 2006 12:37 PMTime loss value $17.92 - $2.20
I lose $22.80 in real value (my time) if I take the bus one way. Or it would cost me $45.60 to take the bus everyday. Tell me again how taking the bus is GOOD!
You're just being selfish!
The Seattle School Board and the City Council have a joint meeting this Friday morning that I plan to attend. I am going to sign up to speak to them about the plan for high school students to take Metro to school instead of yellow buses (thereby allowing high school to possibly start later and saving the District a lot of money....)
Tell me westello, how is the scheme that you propose different from, say, Walmart's scheme to offload its worker healthcare benefits to state governments? If providing transportation to students is among the responsibilities of school districts in Washington State, then they all need to pay the full cost of providing that service. For Seattle Schools to get a free ride, or a reduced ride, because they live in the well-served zone, would be just fine if Metro was financed solely by Seattle taxpayers and bus riders. But metro is a county-wide system, funded by all of us. It is not fair for Seattle to exercize this option without it also being an option for the rest of the school districts.
Posted by: huckleberry on February 21, 2006 12:48 PMWe do run for the customers, that is why the train must leave on time,
which it did. If we had held the train, and then run a half hour late,
we would have gotten hundreds of responses like yours.
John W. Ladenburg
Pierce County Executive
930 Tacoma Ave S.
Tacoma, WA 98402
253-798-6602
>>> 2/14/2006 11:42 AM >>>
The response is about what I expected, the first rule
of bureaucracies is that the bureaucracy is run by and
for the benefit of the bureaucracy. In this case, the
normal people of the public don't matter.
The fact that Sounder riders were not notified in time
to make the decision whether to get off the Sounder
and to drive to work instead would only matter if it
had been an inconvenient to someone high enough in the
bureaucracy.
As for your response, it is more or less a
'non-response,' and was meant to deflect from the
issue at hand which is; Had riders been informed of
this situation prior to the second Sounder leaving the
Tacoma station they would have been afforded the
opportunity to have gotten off the train and driven to
work. Wasn't it?
--- John Ladenburg wrote:
> Sounder Trains run on time 98% of the time. Driving
> the Freeway is like
> lotto, you never win. I apologize if it appears
> that the second train
> should not have left the station, but often times
> the decision on
> whether we can continue to use the tracks is made by
> the fire
> department, not us. Further, we have little control
> over the place
> where fires start. If they have not told us that
> the tracks are not to
> be used, then the train must leave on time. This
> being the case, I
> don't see any negligence here. Now, when you drive
> the freeway and some
> idiot up ahead creates an accident and stops all
> traffic, have you been
> successful in getting your wages back from him? If
> not, I suspect you
> face the same here. On behalf of Sound Transit, I
> deny your claim.
>
> John W. Ladenburg
> Pierce County Executive
> 930 Tacoma Ave S.
> Tacoma, WA 98402
> 253-798-6602
>
> >>> 12/30/2005
> 8:43 AM >>>
> I am contacting you in your capacity as the person
> in
> charge of Sound Transit.
>
> This morning December 30, 2005 I boarded the Sounder
> in Tacoma at approximately 6:10 and sat and read my
> paper until 6:20 when the train pulled out of the
> Tacoma station on time. Within minutes of the train
> leaving Tacoma Station the conductor's voice came
> over
> the loudspeaker system announcing that the tracks
> were
> blocked due to a fire in Sumner and that the train
> would be delayed for an unknown period of time.
> Sound
> Transit knew of this situation by 5:57, my coworker
> who boards the first sounder in Puyallup was
> informed
> of the situation and to expect a delay of
> undetermined
> length, possibly hours.
>
> Had I been informed of this situation prior to the
> second Sounder leaving the Tacoma station I would
> have
> simply gotten off the train and driven to work in
> Renton. I was not given this option and therefore
> will
> suffer a loss of two hours wages. Either I will have
> to use some of my vacation or comp time or will have
> to make the time up.
>
> My base pay rate is $28.32 however since my comp
> time
> and other time in excess of forty hours per week
> rate
> is 1.5 times my base rate I am making a claim for
> two
> hours time at $42.48 per hour. Please remit a check
> in
> the amount of $84.96 made payable to John D Hasty to
> reimburse me for my time loss due to Sound Transit's
> incompetence in this matter.
>
> I have contacted Sound Transit Customer Service at
> the
> toll free number on the card the conductor gave me
> prior to forwarding this request to you After being
> repeatedly transferred from one person to another
> who
> said that they were not responsible for handling
> this
> and did not know who was, decided that it would be
> best to send the claim directly to you and let you
> decide who is responsible for handling it.
Yep, more time to do what I want to do.
I want those two hours a day for myself.
I do not want a hidden tax of $11,000 a year.
I'll drive my gas guzzling full size pickup until gas is $20 bucks a gallon at this exchange rate.
I'll pollute, consume, to my selfish heart's content.
The extra time I spend with the kids feels better than saving the earth for them.
Yep! I am a cold hearted, conservative, earth pillaging, whale killin', tree choppin', strip minin', acid rain producin' b*st*rd.
You nailed me huck, see ya on the bus.
/sarc off
Posted by: JCM on February 21, 2006 01:01 PMTrust the words of those who know - light rail does not reduce congestion. According to the Oregon Department of Transportation's own report the Portland light rail did little but take some bus riders off of buses and on to the light rail. Car traffic was not reduced, in fact car traffic has increased while air pollution has systematically been reduced and continues to decrease as technologies get better. Light rail is, in every single circumstance across the country, ALWAYS over budget by at least 50%. Here in the Portland area it was even higher than that.
These facts can be gained from the Oregon Transportation Institute's website, http://www.hevanet.com/oti/. On this site there is ample factual information to get the word out for the Seattle area.
I think people get wrapped up in the "feel-good" idea of a rail system. Unfortunately, in the Western states we are not set up for mass transit. In NY City you can go to the barber, the butcher shop, veggie stand, coffee shop, bakery, etc., all within a block's walking distance. It's unrealistic to expect people to take a train to the grocery store or to take your children to soccer practice. People out here simply won't do it, no matter how hard anyone tries to "get them out of their car and into mass transit."
Forget the light rail - it's billions of dollars right down the toilet.
Posted by: Camas Mom on February 21, 2006 02:24 PM(I'm not bitter or anything....lol)
Posted by: Camas Mom on February 21, 2006 02:33 PMSucker! (what Ron Sims says to you under his breath)
I tend to agree with you. Especially for KC project like the light rail, transit etc...
There is Statewide infrastructure in Seattle, like the port, I5, rail yards and so on. That the entire state should shoulder some of the bill on.
That said Seattle claims everything that it does is Statewide benefit. (seawall anyone?)
Part of the solution is getting honest politicians (is that an oxymoron) to be able to tell the difference between Statewide and KC.
Absolutely no one in Camas should be paying for bums to ride the bus for free in Seattle.
Posted by: JCM on February 21, 2006 03:58 PMAn intersting sidelight, is the vast majority of people who ride light rail DRIVE TO THE STATION. Not much congestion or pollution reduction there folks!
Posted by: RJK on February 21, 2006 04:13 PMOr I wonder if they could guarantee that the arrival time back to that day care center would be as planned, or they could pay the $$$ per minute that it costs if you are late getting to your daycare center to pick up the kids. And then of course wait outside until the kids had their coats on and all their belongings picked up and ready to go.
The Preacher in King County doesn't have a clue how most of the working family's days are organized.
He has a Limo that takes him everywhere anytime he wants to go, so that he can preach to us how we should take the bus!
Posted by: GS on February 21, 2006 05:16 PMOn the Metro Bus system, the student would pay $1.00 per boarding and the taxpayers pay $2.28 in subsidy to pay for operating costs. On Sound Transit the student would pay $1.00 and the taxpayer would kick in $2.58 per boarding. What about the children that can't pay the $10.00 a week extra that the parents will have to kick in!!!
If you have two kids taking the non “Yellow Bus,” it will cost an additional $900.00 per year to the family budget and do you think that the School Board is going to give any money they save back to the taxpayers!
GET REAL WESTELLO
Posted by: tacoma phlash on February 21, 2006 07:47 PMIn fact...just about EVERY project designed and presented by Liberal's - for the sake of some misguided ideal of density, enviromentalism, socialism, etc...is ALWAYS incredibly expensive to the taxpayers, is never well designed, is never on time, is never on budget, and is always, at some point, rejected by the public - yet allowed to continue due to suspiciously "anticipated" legal loopholes written into the original contracts.... As if they - the Liberal Democrats KNEW the public would challenge them eventually when the projects fail or begin to suck more taxes than what was originally promised!
In King County - every Liberal Democrat project has been condemned by the citizens - yet they continue...(with the exception of the Monorail..but who knows? it may be resurrected...)
The problem now - is that the public no longer has a vote on anything! Our elections are now more deceptive than they were in 2004! If Ron Sims is successful in forcing us to vote by mail...our votes will never by counted again - in the manner they were cast. Election outcomes will never again be authentic or honest. I don't believe we have any integrity in our state, county or city elections in the state of Washington right now. But I believe it can and will get worse...
You are right on... the Tacoma Link now cost the taxpayer $6.10 for every boarding in operating expence and now they want to expand the service at a cost of $32,000 PER INCH!!!
JDH and I have repeatedly told all of you out there that John “Chambers Creek” Ladenburg is a bigger "Nut Case" than Ron “Tax to the Max” Sims ever dreamed of being!!!
Hold onto your wallets folks, the spending is just starting!!!
living in Tacoma, as I assume you do, how would you know? You don't. Your numbers are impossibly off for yellow bus service.
Idiot!
Posted by: westello on February 21, 2006 07:59 PMIt is relatively simple to figure out…first you look up what a school district pays for bus service…then you divide that number by the number of boarding’s and there you have it, the cost per boarding!!!
MORONIC CEREBRALLY CHALLENGED, ALTERNATIVELY SCHOOLED, UNIQUELY FORTUNED INDIVIDUAL ON AN ALTERNATIVE CAREER PATH!!!
"A WALK THROUGH THE OCEAN OF YOUR SOUL WILL BARELY GET MY FEET WET!!!"
Posted by: tacoma phlash on February 21, 2006 08:41 PMThey tried to force all of us to ride the bus (the company was located in a new building, and the powers that be had required the builders to not put in enough parking, so as to force people to ride the bus). I was given a bus pass as a "benefit."
It would take anywhere between 40 to 70 minutes to walk or drive to the park and ride (located only about a mile away), find a parking spot (if applicable), take the bus and to actually arrive at the stop downtown and walk to my building. The way home across 520 would be much worse due to the lack of an HOV lane. That would take up to 90 minutes, during which time I would get to enjoy insane people, awful BO, the lack of air conditioning, and a total inability to move. Often, I'd get to stand, trying to hold a bag or backpack with tons of books and a laptop in it. Not fun, either on the way home or attempting to walk to the park and ride in the morning.
As someone else previously said, the actual cost of taking the bus was enormous. Losing 1.5 or 2 hours of my day would equate to about $100 to $150 in lost income (after taxes). More importantly, it would place innumerable restrictions on my ability to commit to any kind of responsibility or activity after work or to enjoy my evenings. I'm single, and the loss of 2 hours per day in that situation was bad enough. I can't even imagine what it would be like trying to make it to activities for children or a spouse.
Much of the same principles apply to car-pooling. It's fine if you work with some people at a big company and everyone leaves when the bell rings at 5:00. I don't know anyone who actually works like that. I have to be ready to attend functions, take care of errands after work, and so on.
Finally (I'm trying to fit all this in one comment -- sorry) -- I'm shocked at all of the stupid buses that drive around empty on the Eastside. I know that the buses really are full during busy commute times on certain routes. I literally almost never see a bus with more than 2 or 3 people on it, however. Can't we just admit that the whole thing is a subsidy for people who can't afford cars/insurance, and/or people who think the buses help with pollution? When I see the empty or sparsely occupied buses spewing out tons of black exhaust and slowing down and/or endangering several cars, I have to wonder what kinds of effects they really have. It's too bad all the research as to their effects seems to be performed by members of the Sierra Club or other left-wing sorts.
Crap like Sims' editorial is a great indicator of how screwed up things are in this county.
Posted by: Matt on February 22, 2006 02:19 AM"the voracious Sound Transit takes resources away from the parts of transportation system, such as buses, that actually do some good."
No it doesn't, Stefan. You are flat-out wrong here. In fact, just the opposite is true. Sound Transit took over some of the most expensive long-haul routes from Metro, Pierce Transit, and Community Transit, allowing those cash-strapped agencies to focus on local service with better fairbox return ratios. And why are you always bashing Sound Transit when most of the service they provide is bus service? I don't get it.
This notion that the RTA takes resources away from Metro is also completely wrong, and you know it. Those were two completely different votes of the people, and even if the region was dumb enough to listen to all the anti-transit rantings over here at SP, and decide to mothball the light rail project, it wouldn't even be legally possible to transfer what ever pittance is left over to Metro bus service. Two separate votes of the people. Get it?
Similarly, the reason people like Patterson and Sims support light rail is because it will eventually free up tens of thousands of riders each day who currently sit on I-5 in the most congested parts of the city, and Metro will be able to provide more feeder and east-west neighborhood service (which people have been calling for for years), as well as more service on congested corridors like Aurora. In fact, that's why you see so much support from bus agencies for light rail, and that's the way it works all over the rest of the world. What makes you guys think Seattle is some sort of special case?
One of the reasons conservative cities like Phoenix and Salt Lake support light rail is because the operating subsidy for a train set with one driver and 400-800 people is a LOT lower than a bus with 20 people on it stuck in traffic. Trains also attract more new riders, and - as such - remove more cars from the road.
If you guys really took a look at the facts behind these decisions (and got out of this endless knee-jerk reaction mode) you may see things differently.
But, then again, it seems SP always seems to be on the flip side of most - if not every - popularly supported project or vote in this city, county and region. Maybe that's why you now seem to pretend to support bus transit? Because public polling shows less affinity for buses, and more for rail - and buses are less likely to be supported in a future tax hike? Could that be it?
Posted by: WeNeedRoadsAndTransit on February 22, 2006 11:14 AMHow simple minded can one person be? Read my earlier post moron and you will see that the powers that be have NO INTENTION of doing this and these are not my words they are COPIED from my email exchanges with ST's own John Ladenburg.
Posted by: JDH on February 22, 2006 04:04 PMAnd, Mr. Hasty (very appropriate name!) you may want to try and focus on the actual issue we were discussing (you know, my quote you cited). We were talking about Link light rail freeing up bus hours in Seattle, Tukwila and SeaTac. Not the Tacoma street car.
Posted by: WeNeedRoadsAndTransit on February 23, 2006 01:34 AM