As those who live in the Seattle area know, and as others may know, six young people were murdered yesterday, after an all night party in the Seattle Capitol Hill neighborhood. As always, there is no shortage of theories about the underlying causes for the murders. Some automatically blamed the availability of guns, others the "Goth" culture, still others drugs and alcohol, and so one.
In my opinion, it is far too soon for us to say any more about this tragedy than these two things: We are terribly sorry about this tragedy, and we extend our sympathy to the families. And this shows, once again that it is now harder to raise children, in many ways, than it once was. (One of those at the party was just fifteen years old.) Other conclusions will have to wait until we know more.
Cross posted at Jim MIller on Politics.
Posted by Jim Miller at March 26, 2006 10:11 AM | Email ThisA tragedy is an earthquake, flood, Ebola, etc.
This is a deranged individual gone berserk.
Just like 9-11, which conservatives acknowledged wasn't a tragedy but a despicable act of terrorism.
Bush, et. al. argued extensively to distinguish tragedy and people-based actions. He's right. It applies here too.
Posted by: Lovinusa on March 26, 2006 12:09 PMNo he had to be a coward about it and take the life of others just like the 9-11 episode of the now seize the left in denial!
Maybe they didn't get a pacifier when they were all infants! Oh lets coddle them some more!
Posted by: dcat on March 26, 2006 12:19 PMThe Tacoma Mall incident simply wasn't lethal enough to have traction for those that would like us all in padded rooms so we cannot hurt ourselves or anyone else.
What was responsible?
Drugs/alcohol?
Guns?
Raves?
Goth culture?
Bad parenting?
Mental disorder?
Vitamin deficiency?
Who cares? I certainly don't. I'm sorry people died, most certainly, but they are gone now, and hysterics and the politics of banning things combined with a lot of political manuevering disguised as teary eyed concern are just a stomach turning waste of time, energy, money, and attention to real issues.
The object here is not to produce a post mortem inquiry report, to establish cause-effect, or to make you safe.
The obejct will be to either get elected, or to make some op-ed page writers feel good about themselves
Posted by: Steve Ramsey on March 26, 2006 12:36 PMThis is almost as bad as the previous Seattle police chief, Norm Stamper, who is in favor of legalizing all, as in all, drugs. Make ya wonder if he had that opinion while he was the top law enforcement officer for the largest city in the state. Given mind altering drugs that were present at this teens/twenty somethings party on Capitol Hill -- maybe there is more than one smoking gun in this connection...
Posted by: freedom on March 26, 2006 03:49 PMThe only difference between this nut's shotgun and mine is the grip. Somewhat easier to handle, but both are equally lethal. Banning shotguns with pistol grips does nothing, other than make the shotgun look less nasty. But hey, as long as it looks nicer and makes me feel better, that's all that matters, right? But that's all that matters to the anti-gun types, isn't it?
Oh, and freedom, the chief's gun wasn't department issue, it was his personal handgun. Seattle, I believe, issues Glocks in .40 cal. The one that was stolen was a Glock 26, a 9mm. In any event, I know it wasn't one the department issued him. But of course, we the people shouldn't be allowed to have our own handguns.
Posted by: Mike H on March 26, 2006 04:05 PMThanks for that background. All the more reason for the Chief to be held accountable -- for his own personal weapon that we now know is only for "hunting people."
Personally, I like my USP H&K 9mm. The pistol grip shotguns were banned during the Clinton years, but as we know the ban expired thanks to the GOP control. The Benelli M-1, is an excellent weapon, especially for home defense -- and for opening locked appliances.
None of these were present in this incident. The style of grip on the shotgun used is not illegal. Reports indicate it was not a sawed-off shotgun. A sawed-off shotgun is illegal precisely because of its concealability (making it ideal for criminal purposes)and its increased lethality in close range.
A number of commenters are already turning this into a political issue and extremely inappropriate humor has wormed its ugly way into these comments. This is a mistake and makes this website look bad. Be assured, your comments will be appearing in the Stranger and Seattle Weekly's upcoming issues and be attributed to Sound Politics, "the conservative Seattle blog." There is nothing -- absolutely nothing -- worthy of humor or sardonic jeers in this event. It is an evil, murderous and sad tragedy for our city. Please be prudent in how you react to it. May I also note briefly that these oblivious references to "goth" culture as a possible cause may as well have been uttered by Sargeant Stadenko. I live a few blocks from the scene of the crime. This particular group of kids were about as "goth" as the Bush twins. They were just more or less regular kids, into various genres of electronic dance music, and into each other. As in young, and alive, and even in love. Indeed, more or less regular except for one young man. This incident isn't about anything except one young man perpetrating an evil act. We may never know why he did it. But it was despicable. And as for the families of the dead victims, their lives will never be the same.
Posted by: A Neighbor on March 26, 2006 05:11 PMWell said, A Neighbor. You are precisely correct and it is helpful to read your truthful words.
http://oncrime.blogspot.com/2006/03/shooting-in-seattle.html
Posted by: a on March 26, 2006 06:33 PMWell, I suppose to a pack of urbanite dimwits that seems like a lot, but when you do a lot of shooting, nobody thinks much of a ammunition quantities that only reach 3 digits. Even here in neo-socialist anti-gun Seattle I know numerous people that have many firearms and tens of thousands loaded rounds. Oddly enough in the minds of our hyper-liberalite majority, non of them have had any problems with the law.
I also grew up in Montana - having three or four DOZEN pistols, rifles, shotguns, and black powder guns in a home was common, along with several hundred rounds of ammo (minimum) for each caliber and associated hunting gear.
Posted by: H Moul on March 26, 2006 07:39 PMSome loser from Montana moves here for four years, has several guns, and decides to murder local kids cause he's fat, stupid, inbred, angry, cant get laid, can't fit in, cowardly, uneducated, and above all owned guns.
Taking away his guns would have still left you with all the other things he was, but it would have also helped him kill fewer people maybe.
Its too bad he was such a coward he took the cowards way out.
It is really annoying that you Republicans are only worried about your public image over a tragedy like this. It would have been much more impressive to read here some leadership like qualities like compassion for the victims or maybe tougher gun laws to weed out the incompetent and illegal gun owners out there -- so that those of you that obey the law with your firearms aren't painted with the same brush as these low class criminals like Kyle Huff.
But you're rather engage in another round of "play the victim attacked by the liberals." And try and turn the issue into how you think all gun owners will now be under attack.
If Republicans only concern in a massacre of innocent kids is how it will look for gun owners rights, you all are very much not the type we want leading anything. I'll remember this crap when I vote, definitely.
Posted by: DaveD on March 26, 2006 09:40 PMAhh, the paranoid delusional far right / far left wingers. We need more of these fine citizens around, H Moul. They make the neighborhood MUCH safer!
-Police chief Gil Kerlikowski is making gun control noises in the aftermath of this. He's using the CeaseFire Washington stock phrases such as "no hunting purpose other than hunting humans"-
Pray tell, Chunkstyle, are there people who hunt animals with Assault Rifles? Do they like their deer "chunky" instead of smooth? Polling proves that even most gun owners exhibit common sense when it comes to regulating firearms designed to kill humans only. That common sense doesn't see much light of day at Sound Paranoid Politics.
And why is the NRA always so concerned with protecting the Second Amendment rights of potential terrorists?
Posted by: GarySea on March 26, 2006 09:43 PMWhen you look at who is behind the endless string of tragedies (fairly unique to the USA), and see how many "law abiding citizens" commit crimes of passion against family and loved ones - it's pretty clear that the conservatives' obsession with contrasting the "good guys" with the "bad guys" is pretty futile when it comes to gun violence.
Posted by: GarySea on March 26, 2006 09:49 PMIt's that simple.
Posted by: Hindu on March 26, 2006 09:51 PMThe perp sounds like somebody who had an unhealthy obsession with guns for some time now:
"Kyle Huff was charged with felony criminal mischief in 2000 in Whitefish for shooting a fiberglass statue of a moose that had been part of an art exhibit. He used two weapons in the shooting: a shotgun and a 45-caliber weapon, according to Det. Roger Bergstrom of the Whitefish Police Department. "
Posted by: GarySea on March 26, 2006 09:55 PMSeveral of the articles have referenced the extreme youth of some of the participants, notably young teenage girls, at all night events hosted by young men in their mid to late twenties. One of the victims was a fifteen year old girl.
The association of such young girls with men five to ten years their elders is not good and if it is being facilitated by all-age dances then our tolerance for such events should be re-examined.
Posted by: barchester on March 26, 2006 10:09 PMThe ill-named 'assault weapon' ban has thankfully been allowed to expire. Fully automatic weapons have been illegal since the 30's for civilians. 'Assault weapon' is a generic term used by hoplophobes for anything that looks scary. It is irrelevant if anyone at all uses one for hunting or not. My point was that by trotting out recognizable stock phrases of CeaseFire Washington, the good chief was himself politicizing the issue.
Firearms can be misused to tragic ends and unfortunately that is what happened in this case. They are tools, neutral themselves, but able to be put to use for good or ill by humans. Of course, the humans should be held responsible for whatever choices they make.
Gun control in general is a quixotic goal, usually adopted by starry-eyed idealists or murderous tyrants. There are already over 20,000 laws regarding use and possession of firearms, adding more 'common sense' gun laws is not going to stop a determined or deranged person from committing a crime. Criminals, by definition, already do not have much respect for the rule of law as it is; why would they obey the next law passed?
As to the myth of the responsible gun owner, I am just such a creature, so it is true in at least my instance. I know many others who have never committed a crime with their firearms either. As it stands at the time of this posting, my gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.
If you really want to get on causes of mortality, you should get on the bandwagon to ban 5-gallon buckets. More children die annually in those than in firearm deaths (I'm not going to count 18- and 19- year old gangbangers as 'children', btw).
Posted by: chunkstyle on March 26, 2006 10:10 PMAll I can say is that if the EVIL REPUGNICANS had not killed off Clinton's "MIDNIGHT BASKETBALL" initiative, these fine young people might have had something better to do that would have KEPT THEM OUT OF TROUBLE.
Posted by: RiceRocket on March 26, 2006 10:18 PMThe more I read about the shooter (and the profiles of people like him) - the more I get the impression that his victims could have been goths at a party - or kids at McDonalds - or people attending church...His fuse was lit before he even moved to this state.
His victims likely did nothing to cause this - and very likely could not have seen it coming.
Thank God there are so few of these walking "timebombs" in the world... Thank God we still have the right to bear arms against them.
My prayers go out to the families of all involved.
Posted by: Deborah on March 26, 2006 10:52 PMhttp://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=26056067
Posted by: a on March 26, 2006 11:21 PMhttp://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=26056067
Posted by: a on March 26, 2006 11:21 PMWhere are the parents of those young teens that are out until the next morning? What are they thinking when they allow their kids to be out at all hours with little or no supervision or curfews?
The parents need a reality check.
Posted by: Clean House on March 26, 2006 11:24 PMUnconfirmed report: Capitol Hill shooting claims another life
Posted by TOM FRANCIS at 02:33 AM
It won’t be official until the Harborview Medical Center confirms, but several sources close to the case told The Stranger that another person shot in the Capitol Hill rampage has died of his wounds. His name is Jason Travers, according to those sources. This would bring the number of dead to eight, including the shooter, now widely identified as Kyle Huff. One more survivor appears to still be at Harborview Medical Center, listed in serious condition.
During his press conference Saturday, Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske said that the shooter made a single statement during his rampage, but he refused to disclose it. Now, sources are telling The Stranger that Huff announced to his victims, “I have enough caps for all of you fools,” while he sprayed shotgun fire around the home.
----
Check the following web page for more information
http://oncrime.blogspot.com/2006/03/shooting-in-seattle.html
And here is the web page of one of the victims
http://www.myspace.com/sushiismyname
Posted by: a on March 27, 2006 06:46 AMhttp://deacon808.livejournal.com
Here is an interesting post from Jan. 12th, 2006.
Lately, I've become acutely aware that I should have been doing all this stuff like two or three years ago.
But, hey, its never too late to start.
Im seriously transitioning once again. Chris ver 3.0 should be fully developed and all the bugs worked out soon. Im beta testing 2.2 right now. Expect to see final product on shelves by the end of the year.
Wish me luck.
Posted by: a on March 27, 2006 06:51 AMAnd why is the NRA always so concerned with protecting the Second Amendment rights of potential terrorists?
Posted by GarySea at March 26, 2006 09:43 PM
GarySea you forgot IED's they are cheaper to make and create more damage. They now use them in Iraq on a daily bases instead of guns to get their numbers up on the front page of the papers.
Any five year old can make one and also be use in any city in the world. So when are we going to ban house-hold items.
I'm sure DoubleD meant to say:
"It is really annoying that you Republicans are only worried about protecting the Constitution and specifically the 2nd Amendment..."
about conservatives....conservatives generally believe in good values and morals, raising your kids up right and that means not allowing them to attend raves, or have their dts out at all hours or have their sons out at all hours...and I do understand that some of these "young' people were not really that "young"...we believe in strict schools and the church of your choice and respect and manners and in general, socially responsible behaviour....
Seattle relishes its drug culture.. it relishes its crazed music scene... it relishes and even encourages people on the far end of normalcy.....this murderer had a history of drug use and yet, its not that or his hanging out with the ravers or the "get ready to eat brains" crowd but its the stupid gun he used...
...as if a scabre wielding madman would be easier to take.
maybe beheadings will become the next big thing, and our leftist commrades will be at ease at least its not that terrible gun....
Posted by: lee on March 27, 2006 11:58 AMLet me provide you another perspective. First, as has been mentioned, so-called "assault" rifles are no more dangerous than your average hunting rifle. Unless the "assault" rifle is somehow modified to become fully automatic, which is illegal already, there is no more danger from an average person using them.
I can do more damage to a deer or moose with a single .30-.06 Springfield cartridge. That said, hunting is not the only activity which those of us who own different types of rifles and guns like to do. Some, like me, just like to go to the shooting range and target practice. I like shooting an AR-15 at the range, same as I like shooting a .270 or a 9mm. The range, accuracy and power I get with a .270 or .30-06 is better than what I get with a .223 "assault" rifle, however the latter is a little easier on my shoulder.
And why is the NRA always so concerned with protecting the Second Amendment rights of potential terrorists?
Same reason the ACLU is concerned about the free speech and privacy rights of potential terrorists.
Posted by: Palouse on March 27, 2006 12:21 PMHow come we just can't leave it all be?
The the ravers rave. The the gun ownwers own their guns.
There is NO law except that which exists in the heart of every man and woman. Therefore, no LAW, no REGULATION, and no amount of hand wringing is going to prevent such sociopathic incidents in the future.
You want absolute safety in life?
You will NEVER attain it, and in the course of seeking it, you will extinguish that which makes life enjoyable. You can preach all you want. You can join an anti this group, or a ban that group, ot the latest 'mothers agaist whatever'. But you are not doing anybody any good in the end.
Our jails are packed, the war on dope continues apace, gun owners have to over-react to avoid being pilloried, the rave community is seriously worried that thier fun might be impeded, and a whole host of laws are on the books right down to smokers being cast out 25 feet from the rest of civilization, as if that arbitrary distance is going to be acceptable eventually.
I can hear the trilling of the do-gooders now.
Posted by: Steve Ramsey on March 27, 2006 02:20 PMIn 2003 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,136 gun deaths in the U.S:
16,907 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths),
11,920 homicides (40% of all U.S gun deaths),
730 unintentional shootings (2% of all U.S gun deaths),
347 from legal intervention and 232 from undetermined intent (2% of all U.S gun deaths combined).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2006.
There are an estimated 200 million guns in private hands in the US.
It is also estimated that 2.5 million gun defenses occur each year. That is stopping a crime with the display or use of a gun.
One death for every 6637 guns.
One crime stopped for every 80 guns.
For every gun death 83 crimes are stopped.
In 2003 there where an estimated 204 million cars in the US.
In 2003 there where 38,477 traffic fatalities.
One death for every 5302 cars.
Cars carry us 2.9 Trillion miles every year.
For every 100 million miles traveled there are 1.5 deaths.
Cars are a great benefit to society.
Cars kill us.
Guns are a great benefit to society
Guns kills us.
Cars are a privilege.
Guns are a right.
It was one Kyle Aaron Huff who decided to commit an evil heinous act. Murder violates the most fundamental society taboos (before anyone brings up execution and war, there is a difference between murder and legally sanctioned killing), the taking of another human life.
It wasn't the gun. Guns are a right.
It wasn't hunting.
It wasn't the car he drove to commit his crime. Freedom to move about is a right.
It wasn't the Rave. Freedom of Assembly is a right.
It wasn't being from Montana. Just how do you blame a place?
There may be many factors. With most things there is a series of events that lead to the crime. We don't blame the victims for being there, we shouldn't blame the gun, the car, Montana or the party.
We can examine those things, but never forget who pulled the trigger.
Kyle Aaron Huff killed those people. The why will forever remain a mystery, forever gone when Huff choose not to face a cop or his acts.
Posted by: JCM on March 27, 2006 03:55 PMYou summed it up quite nicely!
Posted by: Deborah on March 27, 2006 05:41 PMIt seems to me that some very serious questions need to be asked of the homeowners if they are sponsoring or permitting parties where children are mixing with adults not their parents and beer and drugs are present. The murders are sad and unexplainable, but they have also, coincidentally, overturned a rock with some very disturbing stuff crawling around underneath.
Posted by: barchester on March 27, 2006 07:32 PMThe people who allowed/hosted this party at their home should be arrested for allowing this, but in leftist Seattle, they may get probation or a similar slap on the wrist. As for the murderer, he was unstable and it seemed like it was premeditated. He killed himself, which spared society of having to pay for his incarceration, etc. This unfortunate event serves as a warning about having Raves like this one. The only message I acknowledge about gun control is with two hands - Washington Cease Fire was out of line to prostitute themselves before TV cameras just hours after the event.
Posted by: KS on March 27, 2006 08:35 PMIf parents want to be stupid, they are going to be stupid. Permissive parents is a larger cultural issue.
Stupidity on the part of parents is not license for another to take advantage of a child.
Don't that distract us from the murderer:
Kyle Huff.
Posted by: JCM on March 28, 2006 07:17 AMI can tell you voted for George Bush, all right...
This incident is a Rorschach test for Puget Sound. Those inside the asylum limits are screaming "GUNS!!!" while those outside are wondering what the he!! is going on, is Seattle finally certifiable?
Posted by: South County on March 28, 2006 08:19 AM