The Seattle Times' Danny Westneat says he wants to convince us that illegal immigrants are something other than "derelicts sucking up tax money", so he tells us the story of Zenaida Lopez, who crossed the border illegally with her then husband:
After arriving in Seattle, the couple had two children. Her husband began beating her, hitting her in the face on multiple occasions, according to family-court records. Twice she was hospitalized.We further learn that her two children attend public school, that Lopez "baby-sits for cash" (but presumably doesn't pay taxes) and "gets public assistance for her housing". And this column still leaves me wondering: whatever happened to Lopez' battering, deadbeat, absentee-dad illegal immigrant ex-husband? You have to wonder whether Danny Westneat genuinely wants to convince his readers that illegal immigrants don't "suck up tax money", or whether he simply failed to see the irony that his best example of the ideal illegal immigrant is someone who consumes all kinds of social services but pays little taxes. Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at April 02, 2006 10:31 AM | Email ThisThough she knew almost no English, she left him and fled to a battered-women's shelter in Issaquah.
I mean, if I was being beaten by my spouse, and the only way I could get away is by, say, by jumping a turnstyle to get on a train, I'd do it. What's more, I'd encourage others to do the same thing.
This seems like an incredibly poor way to make your point.
Posted by: Cliff on April 2, 2006 10:59 AMWhich laws are acceptable to break? Who decides? Is it always, "the ends justify the means?" What if I were to rob a bank and then live an exceptional life afterwards - would that be acceptable? I just did it to make my life better.... Yes, an extreme example, but again, who decides?
Posted by: SouthernRoots on April 2, 2006 11:35 AMLook, there's a big difference between sympathizing with individual 'illegals' and suggesting that there is no problem with illegal immigration when it amounts to millions per year.
Liberals are nuts if they simply say 'OK, open the borders and let'em all in.' Sadly, that's what they seem to be saying. (And btw I'm a liberal, so I am speaking to my own.) OK, we allow the illegals already here to stay. So doesn't that simply encourage more illegal immigration UNLESS we do something drastic like a fence? (Even assuming that would work.)
There IS a problem and sympathy for individuals like Zenaid doesn't make it go away.
Posted by: Raw Data Complex on April 2, 2006 11:43 AMAs the liberals are so fond of saying, there is no excuse for domestic violence. Not even illegal immigration.
Posted by: Doug Timpe on April 2, 2006 12:03 PMYeah, he's in the only paper in town, so maybe it matters, but he's also so silly as to not worry about his logic.
That said, look for Patty, Goldy and other dimbulbs to parrot his line...
yipes
Posted by: righton on April 2, 2006 12:24 PM
Liberals like Westneat are constantly trying to to relieve everyone from the negative consequences of one's personal illegal behavior. We don't accept that. If SHE and her abusive husband should be excused for coming here, why shouldn't EVERYONE be excused for everything illegal that they do, regardless of what it is? All we have to do is claim victimhood in some area of our lives and everything is automatically excused. That results in total chaos and nobody having to live by any rules.
At the very least, I hope her abusive husband gets deported. But somehow I don't see much hope for that.
Posted by: Misty on April 2, 2006 01:38 PMMy spouse is a green card holder as well... Basically, when I explain to her (she's from Central Asia and speaks Russian) the deal with these illegals, she says things I can't repeat in polite company...
Also, my question for mexico: How do you live right next door to the richest country in the world and have a third world economy? I mean seriously.
I'll tell you how: corruption. And the only thing that ever stops corruption is if the government fears the people. Precisely the reason the 2nd amendment is so important. I live in a country now where it's illegal to own a handgun if you aren't in the government or pay a hefty bribe under the table. To buy a long gun (shotgun, rifle) requires permission from three different government people, which translates into : bribes, bribes, bribes. Yeah, this country, as small as it is, has the distinction of making it onto the UN's top ten most corrupt basically every year I've been here....
This woman has 2 kids who are US citizens, right? She can go back to Mexico and apply for an immigrant visa to support her 2 kids... I forget the specifics (I spent many many hours on the INS/CIS/whatever it's called now's website)...
Posted by: Aaron on April 2, 2006 01:52 PMThat's not only the ideal illegal immigrant, but also the ideal legal immigrant, and the ideal citizen for Westneat and the rest of his lib buddies -- let government do everything for you and the evil rich people will pay for it all.
Posted by: MES on April 2, 2006 02:38 PMPosted by Aaron at April 2, 2006 01:52 PM
Really? Sharkansky's blogging software won't support Cyrillic text? You can type stuff in Russian just fine on Horse's Ass.
By the same token, how is it that there can be so many liberal democrats in a country where opportunity, liberty, and abundance abound?
If there is a way to screw things up, most people will figure out how. Mexico is an example of the type of corruption that exists in most places around the world and what our country would become if liberals had their way.
Your point is well taken as is Katomar's.
Posted by: Amused by liberals on April 2, 2006 05:30 PMNow we want to give PRIORITY in our immigration system to people who used illegal self-help (sneaking accross the border without a visa and without using legal entry stations) to get here, having been working illegally, and probably using fake documents in order to work illegally? GIVE ME A BREAK!
There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people on a WAITING LIST for legal immigration. Not just folks like Aaron's wife, who had the absolute right to come here, but merely had long paperwork processing times. But folks who really do have to WAIT, like relatives of U.S. citizens (brothers, sisters, etc.) who often have to wait many years at home before a immigration quota number comes up for them.
They say there are 10 to 12 million people illegally in the United States. If we want to have another 10 to 12 million legal residents, I have a modest proposal. Make all the people living here illegally leave. They can go back home and compete for those 10 to 12 million legal places in the USA, along with everyone else in the world, without either advantage awarded or penalty imposed for the time they have spent here illegally.
Posted by: Richard Pope on April 2, 2006 05:33 PMPosted by George at April 2, 2006 03:45 PM
Probably. The children are eligible as U.S. citizens to get TANF, food stamps, public housing, and Medicaid, among other things. You have a three person household -- the illegal mother and the two citizen children. The mother's reported income of zero ensures the maximum benefit for these programs. The benefits are then figured for a two person household, instead of a three person household, since the mother is ineligible. The TANF welfare benefit and food stamp allotment for two people is not that much less than it would be for three people.
Posted by: Richard Pope on April 2, 2006 05:37 PMВашей жене можно писать здесь по русски то, что ей хочется
Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on April 2, 2006 05:52 PMObviously, we can't kick 5 to 10 million people out of the country outright. Logisically it would be very difficult. And they'd probably sneak right back in given our lax border. Even if we build a big fence, there are still going to be a lot of illegals, they will come on small boats in the ports on the West Coast.
On the other hand, we are losing a lot of tax revenue and providing a lot of services for nothing in return. If we keep it up, many government programs will go bankrupt.
I think we need to sensibly enforce existing laws, and get those who have been here a long time to start paying up, or leave the country.
It's a tricky problem, but Westneat style pleas to the sympathy of a woman whose being beaten are exactly like Social Security advocates parading old people who would be in trouble without their monthly check. It's easy to do, makes for emotion laced writing that will sell, doesn't require much journalistic skill, and ultimately is completely useless in terms of confronting the issue at hand. Sounds like the Lamestream Media to me.
Posted by: Jeff B. on April 2, 2006 06:07 PMComing from a cynical position - the status of the Senate Bill - big business greed is favored to win out- with a soft guest worker program which is amnesty, because the actions politicians we elect would show that it is more important to have their pockets lined by big business and immigration lobbyists than to be doing what they are constitutionally sworn in to do - protect and defend the constitution of the United States of America. They are sure as hell not serving us - What they are doing is clearly unconstitutional.
Posted by: KS on April 2, 2006 06:23 PMCompelling story of bureaucratic inefficiency. If you had been a citizen of almost any other Western country, it probably wouldn't have even taken a week.
But I am curious. Civil war broke out in 1991. You were born in the USA. You were married to your husband for 20 years (as of 1991, or as of now)? What possessed you to leave the USA and move to Communist Yugoslavia in 1971 (or even in 1986)?
Posted by: Richard Pope on April 2, 2006 06:55 PMOur immigration laws have been tweaked numerous times over the decades... We had so many people coming in from a couple of specific countries (Mexico and China) That we had to place caps on how many were allowed to migrate from any specific country. Mexican immigrants alone could eat up the entire US immigration allotment every year! This would not allow anyone from other countries to become citizens!
Since Mexico (the country) seems to be in a state of corruption and economic disarray - causing the enormous population exodus into our borders, then it's time to address Mexico as a nation who is threatening our national security, economy and public interests! I say give the 12 million illegals here the opportunity to join a military unit that will go into Mexico and clean it up! We can send our forces and maybe even hire the Blackwater boys as backup. If Mexico needs a spanking so their people can have opportunity there without oppression - and they can quit fleeing to our country - why not? We do it for other countries....Mexico would be easy! They're in our back yard.
Then perhaps we could go back to a fair and expedient system of immigration that isn't clogged down with applications from one country. Heck! Mexico - if cleaned up - could also implement an immigration program that can help alleviate some of our congestion!
Why is it the liberals only talk about wanting to give the illegals amnesty here so they can clean their toilets, babysit their kids and work their gardens at slave wages? Instead of recognizing the problems of Mexico that is causing their people to immigrate here? The liberals want slaves! They don't want to fix Mexico's problem, restore dignity to those people and make them a good neighbor....They want slaves work for slave wages and eat up our taxes in social services - and eventually bring on the economic ruin of our nation.... Liberals are communists - Hellbent on destroying our nation.
There needs to be a Mexican dream for their people - just as there is an American dream here.
Posted by: Deborah on April 2, 2006 07:14 PMI feel sorry for them because they are frequently targets of criminals. This poor woman was probably abused in Mexico too.
I do find it very interesting that all of the focus seems to be on Mexican illegals. I would bet that there are Thousands of Chinese illegals here on the West Coast............
Posted by: sgmmac on April 2, 2006 09:46 PMAlso, which union will the illegal aliens be forced to join once they become "guest workers"? The "cheap labor" will be gone, but the dems will be happy.
Posted by: Dengle on April 2, 2006 11:18 PMThe places we stopped at for food/drinks in Makedonia and Montenegro always charged us twice the posted price! Probably figured that no one could make out the Cyrillic letters on the official price list and that westerners could afford to pay double in any event.
But in Croatia, we never got overcharged for anything. Always the price on the official price list. Were the people nicer, or did they figure they had to charge the posted price, since we could obviously read Latin letters?
Anyway, our tour group spent two nights in Dubrovnik, so I got to see just about everything there was in Dubrovnik, from all the things in the old city, to the island right off shore, to the hill overlooking the city up the gondola lift, to the beaches, and a good chunk of the night life.
Looks like you left just in time. I remember following the news accounts starting in 1991 with the civil war, and how the Serbians really pounded the hell out of the city with their artillery before they finally stopped fighting with Croatia after a few years.
Posted by: Richard Pope on April 2, 2006 11:29 PMI read what you wrote, I started to add up all of the benefits, and it blew me away…
I used average benefits paid out in Tacoma; it may be different for Seattle…
Housing $8,000 per year, Food Stamps $5,000 per year, Food Banks $5,000 per year, Utilities Program $2,000 per year, Phone Program $900 per year, Educate her TWO children $24,000 per year, School Meals Program (TWO children) $1,500 per year, Transit Passes $800 per year. A grand total of…. $47,200 in taxpayer funds, this does not include the administrative costs. If she also worked “babysitting” for cash 20 hours a week @ $5.00 per hour that works out to an additional $5,200 per year…for a GRAND TOTAL of $52,200 per year in effective income!!! The average household income for working Tacoma family is around $36,000 per year. Even if you take out the cost of education it leaves, $28,200 add in her $5,200 income and its $33,400.
I left out Medicaid but the average paid in Tacoma is over $15,000 per person per year for all services. There is no way to break out information without filling a P.D.C. request.
If we use average costs an ILLEGAL ALIEN living in Tacoma with two children we could be paying out as much as $97,000 per year in benefits paid for by the taxpayers.
If her husband were in jail, the court cost would average out to $17,000 and jail costs at the county level would be $26,000 per year.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/146109_tuition30.html
You can see the vote yourself at the following website.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1079&year=2003
But then again why hold Republicans responsible for their liberal votes.
Posted by: Conservative, Not Republican on April 3, 2006 04:36 PMhttp://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1079&year=2003
EHB 1079
House vote on Final Passage
2/21/2003
Yeas: 75 Nays: 20 Absent: 0 Excused: 3
Voting Yea: Representatives Alexander, Bailey, Berkey, Blake, Buck, Cairnes, Carrell, Chandler, Chase, Clibborn, Cody, Conway, Cooper, Cox, Darneille, DeBolt, Delvin, Dickerson, Dunshee, Edwards, Eickmeyer, Ericksen, Flannigan, Fromhold, Gombosky, Grant, Haigh, Hankins, Hatfield, Hudgins, Hunt, Hunter, Jarrett, Kagi, Kenney, Kessler, Kirby, Lantz, Linville, Lovick, Mastin, McCoy, McDermott, McIntire, McMorris, Miloscia, Moeller, Morrell, Morris, Murray, Newhouse, Nixon, O'Brien, Pettigrew, Priest, Roach, Rockefeller, Romero, Ruderman, Santos, Schoesler, Schual-Berke, Sehlin, Shabro, Simpson, G., Skinner, Sommers, H., Sullivan, Talcott, Tom, Upthegrove, Veloria, Wood, Woods, and Mr. Speaker.
Voting Nay: Representatives Ahern, Anderson, Armstrong, Benson, Boldt, Bush, Campbell, Clements, Condotta, Crouse, Hinkle, Holmquist, Kristiansen, McDonald, McMahan, Orcutt, Pearson, Pflug, Schindler, and Wallace.
Absent:
Excused: Representatives Mielke, Quall, and Sump
Senate vote on 3rd Reading & Final Passage as Amended by the Senate
4/8/2003
Yeas: 48 Nays: 0 Absent: 0 Excused: 1
Voting Yea: Senators Benton, Brandland, Brown, Carlson, Deccio, Doumit, Eide, Esser, Fairley, Finkbeiner, Franklin, Fraser, Hale, Hargrove, Haugen, Hewitt, Honeyford, Horn, Jacobsen, Johnson, Kastama, Keiser, Kline, Kohl-Welles, McAuliffe, McCaslin, Morton, Mulliken, Oke, Parlette, Poulsen, Prentice, Rasmussen, Reardon, Regala, Roach, Rossi, Schmidt, Sheahan, Sheldon, B., Sheldon, T., Shin, Spanel, Swecker, Thibaudeau, West, Winsley, and Zarelli.
Voting Nay:
Absent:
Excused: Senator Stevens.
Overall illegals have it nice. And they are causing corruption at all levels of government(Those hidding and protecting illegals). They transfer wealth out of the country. SOme illegal rent an appartment for 10 or more people to sleep. Save money and send it South.
Posted by: David Anfinrud on April 3, 2006 04:52 PMThe motion was 2003-0402 passed on September 8th 2003 and McKenna did vote in the affirmative.
Check it out for yourself. Just search by motion number.
http://mkcclegisearch.metrokc.gov/legistarweb
And the organization that the motion was speaking out in favor here you can find out about at the following web sites.
http://www.iwfr.org
And their local web page.
http://www.seattle-iwfr.org/index.php
When I read arguements that bring up (for example) facts of violent behavior or tax evasion I think it is inappropriate & can be viewed as racist - simply because facts like these are part of a samplings of any people group particularly poor & uneducated ones.
Our legislators are wrestling with a situation that has no simple solution. WE as a people have allowed migrant workers from Mexico into our country for over a century. We have relied on and do rely on their contribution
To stop the inertia of their presence by suddenly making policy that goes against the grain of what has been allowed for decades is not feasable unless we wish to enlist an army of sadistic skinheads to impliment that policy.
Such "policy enforcement" would devistate our economy far more than 9-11 or the bursting of the dotcom bubble. It would also sicken most Americans.
The only "illegal aliens" you know.
1. Have Social Security taken out of their checks (Against what obviously illegally obtained Number?)
2. Work Hard and Honest (how honest were they in obtaining false documents to gat a job in this country?)
3. Fund a private health car plan with their employer. (The employer who has illegally hired an illegal alien by your own admission)
4. Have Valid WA State Drivers license ( which is why WA state residences will have to get passports to travel internationally and on air transport under the REAL ID act passed by Congress, WA ST. gives Licenses out to ILLEGAL ALIENS).
5. Owns cars and have insurance. (Insurance as required by state law? Why follow that one and not the others?)
6. Do not Commit Crimes. (Them being here IS a crime, by your own admission. Using a fake SS# is a Crime, Working without the proper visa IS A CRIME).
As to your other comments, well, "enlisting an army of SADISTIC SKINHEADS to impliment that policy" speaks volumes about where you are mentally.
Violent behavior? Where was MS13 started? TACOMA? What percentage of our prision population Federal, State and local, is Illegal aliens?
You can view whatever you like as "racist" but you are obviously willing to divest the United States of any vestige of sovereignty for the sake of supporting uncontrolled Mexican migration.
Posted by: Huh? on April 8, 2006 01:38 PMmost people in the world work hard--so what; however, how do YOU react to someone cutting YOU off in line? or in traffic? how do YOU feel about someone UNINVITED in YOUR backyard? taking your water or garden things? probably pizzed? or angry? well, join us normal folk in America and tell that 'noble hard-working humanity' to GET IN LINE like everyone else! breaking the law is not a test of citizenship in any country; it actually shows CONTEMPT for the law;