May 31, 2006
A chance to be heard on vote-by-mail

According to the King County Council website, a public hearing has been scheduled on the vote-by-mail ordinance, to be held during next Monday's Full Committee meeting.

However you feel about vote-by-mail, this is a good opportunity to make known any concerns or thoughts you have about the ordinance.

Posted by Jonathan Bechtle at May 31, 2006 10:15 AM | Email This
Comments
1. I hope as many as possible of you folks who live in King County will attend and make your voices heard. This will affect statewide election integrity, not just King County, so even though some of us can't be heard, i.e. from Pierce County, I hope you will speak for us!

Posted by: katomar on May 31, 2006 09:42 AM
2. 100 people who would rather not testify themselves need to go down on Monday and sign up to testify. Then give your 2-3 minutes to someone (preferably Stefan) to present the evidence he has uncovered that makes it so very clear that all-mail voting would be - and has already been - a disaster.

Democrat councilmembers won't listen or care, but the press will be there and the presentation of some facts may make approval difficult.

Just because it's convenient, does not justify compromising our elections process. Saving money is not a justification either. The goal of any system is to prevent the illegal and invalid vote from cancelling out the valid and legal vote.

Posted by: MJC on May 31, 2006 10:26 AM
3. When I clicked on the link and looked around the county website, I thought I'd be going to the 9:30 COW meeting. But when I talked to Larry Phillips' office I was told that the public meeting will be at 1:30, on the 10th floor of the KC Courthouse. Citizens will be given 3 minutes to speak, but if there are lots of requests that may be reduced. Tomorrow the agenda should be posted online, so we can find out where the election issues will be on the schedule.

Posted by: Alan on May 31, 2006 11:14 AM
4. 1 Is there a time and place (street address and room) of this meeting?
2 I clicked on two (2) links and saw nothing
3 Since most of us have to work on Monday what is the best way to contact the nine (9) council members
a hand written letter
b email
c phone call
d other
e call radio shows - KUOW, KVI, KTTH, KPLU, KIRO
4 Since the mail vote appears to be a done deal
is any group preparing a class action lawsuit and temporary restraining to file Monday afternoon June 5th?
5 If so, what is the mailing address to send a contribution
6 The system was broken in the 2000 US Senate Race, the 2002 Monorail Campaign, and the 2004 Governor Race
7 Even though the statewide voter database purged 50,000 voters on the 1st or 2nd Friday of May, the SWVB is still as buggy as Access 1.0 was
8 Mr Logan and Mr Sims have had 33 months to fix the system, and it is still broken

Posted by: Green Lake Mark on May 31, 2006 11:15 AM
5. Can I assume that you will all be there in support of all poll voting? Because otherwise I don't understand what the hell you want. If it's okay for 60-70% of the ballots to be absentee as they currently are, why is it not okay for ALL of them to be? And if it's NOT okay for all of them to be, why is it okay for ANY of them to be? Please explain.

Posted by: exelizabeth on May 31, 2006 12:41 PM
6. OK Conservatives - the ONLY way to defeat and free ourselves from KING RON and his CORRUPT COUNTY is this...

From: "John Hearing"
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 9:26 PM
Subject: I-932 Update and meeting

Hi folks,

Down to a little over month and petitions are trickling in, but we're still hopeful. Please start sending in petitions if you have them full or nearly so; If you don't have a petition and would like one, please download one from the I-932 website www.countychoice.org or email us and we'll get one to you.

We're having a "howgozit" meeting tomorrow evening, May 31st, at 7:00 pm at the IHOP in Issaquah. If you would like to come ask questions, get petitions or brochures, or just help keep the juices flowing, come join us.

King County is continuing their lack of support for rural and suburban residents, as you have seen in the news, which makes I-932 more important than ever. They recently appointed a new "Rural Ombudsman" to listen to our problems--of course he's from Utah, doesn't have an connections with rural concerns, and, in effect, has no power to anything other than "feel our pain". Also, the Times reported today the the County fees for land use are among the highest in the nation.... Not to mention they charge you for the time it takes them to drive from Seattle to the unincorporated areas... If you want to change things, I-932 is our best chance to
create a government that will listen to us.

Thanks for your support and keep those signatures coming...

Sincerely, John

Please, please PLEASE, if you can't go to the meeting, at least get a petition and GET IT SIGNED!

Posted by: Cheryl on May 31, 2006 01:07 PM
7. Elizabeth:
You really don't get it, do you? It is NOT okay for 60% to 70% to be absentee or mail-in ballots. It leaves the system wide open to fraud. Witness the recent purging of the voter rolls of over 50,000 registrations! The system is broken and needs to be fixed, and compiling the problem by making it 100% mail in voting is not the solution.

Posted by: katomar on May 31, 2006 01:20 PM
8. Vote by mail is good for everyone.

Repubicans everywhere like it --

Democrats everywhere like it...

People everywhere like it.

Only blue folks in red states and red people in blue states complain....

Let it happen! Stop the madness!

Posted by: LovinUSA on May 31, 2006 01:26 PM
9. Sign your ballot

Give it to your local Union Boss to fill out.

It is already happening so why won't this make it happen more?

Posted by: Ted on May 31, 2006 01:41 PM
10. No, I don't get it, because you haven't explained it. Do you want us to go to ALL POLL VOTING? I haven't heard a peep from you guys about this, but this is the logical demand you should be making if you oppose all mail voting.

Posted by: exelizabeth on May 31, 2006 02:16 PM
11. Personally, if I had my druthers, I would require that anyone seeking to cast a means other than by poll appearance would have to sign and seal their ballot in the presence of a notary public who would be required to provide that particular service for free as a condition of licensure.

Going to all-mail voting to solve election problems is like disconnecting the dashbord lights on a car to solve automotive problems. It may make the problems invisible, but will do nothing to correct them; to the contrary, it make the problems more insidious and harder to diagnose.

Posted by: supercat on May 31, 2006 03:00 PM
12. 1 Given the problems we have had since 2000, I feel we should return to poll voting with temporary absentee voting only permitted if you are out of town, a student, etc
2 Permanent absentee will still be allowed but only in extremely limited exceptions
3 The traditional method works in the vast majority of other states, and they have no where the volume of problems we have encountered the last five (5) years
4 The alleged cost savings just are not there

Posted by: Green Lake Mark on May 31, 2006 03:18 PM
13. I prefer going to the polls on election day and I don't think all-mail voting is such a panacea. On the other hand, I think most of the problems Shark has identified are imaginary or greatly exaggerated. That being said, this change is being made without a lot of public input. If you feel that strongly about the issue, how about an intiative on this? Call Tim Eymann. Let the people decide.

Posted by: wayne on May 31, 2006 03:23 PM
14. No, I don't get it, because you haven't explained it. Do you want us to go to ALL POLL VOTING?

YES! Except for those who physically can't make it to the polls. Obtaining an absentee ballot should require enough special effort to make it more of a hassle that simply going to the polls such that only those who legitimately couldn't make it would bother.

Posted by: RBW on May 31, 2006 03:24 PM
15. //On the other hand, I think most of the problems Shark has identified are imaginary or greatly exaggerated.//

Three questions:

1. Are there any reasonably-intelligent people who would like to vote more than once?

2. Would all-mail voting provide any effective means of preventing reasonably-intelligent but dishonest people from voting more than once?

3. Under all-mail voting, would a reasonably-intelligent person voting more than once have any reason to fear getting caught?

I don't think any reasonable person could answer "no" to number 1. If there are people who want to cheat, some effective means of preventing or discouraging cheating will be a prerequisite to running a fair election. What such means exist with all-mail ballots?

Suppose I decide to register myself to an out-of-state address, marking my address as a city park and signing the registration form with an "X" (filling in random squiggles in the "Witnesses" spot). How could anyone prove that I don't really live at that park or, if they did, how could they prove that I personally had anything whatsoever to do with that registration form?

Even if I were "caught", prosecution would be basically impossible because there would be no way to prove that I had done anything. Anyone could have filled in the registration with my name; if the existence of a bogus registration were proof of malfeasance, anyone could frame anyone else.

Given that there are people who would like to cheat, what reason is there to believe that none of them in fact do so?

Posted by: supercat on May 31, 2006 04:14 PM
16. exelizabeth wrote:

"No, I don't get it, because you haven't explained it."

e., I'm assuming you're new to the site, as this topic has been the subject of many previous posts.

Short response: Current situation (60-70% mail ballots) is bad. Proposed 100% VBM (vote by mail) is much worse, as option to vote in-person is eliminated.

Longer response: Policies and procedures adopted by KC Elections under Logan have greatly increased a), the odds of a given mail ballot being mishandled; and b), the opportunities for vote fraud in general, and VBM fraud in particular. Thus, elimination of VBM would indeed be preferred, but is not the option currently under consideration. Hence, maintaining the status quo is the lesser of two evils.

For further information, search this site using "mail ballot", "VBM", "absentee voting", etc.

Posted by: ewaggin on May 31, 2006 04:21 PM
17. All poll voting yes.

Hand audited paper ballots with publicly owned source code yes.

60% voting by mail. No.

Forced vote by mail and Diebold TSX touchscreens. Hell no!

Partisan bickering will not solve the election problems.

Posted by: Gentry Lange on May 31, 2006 07:25 PM
18. Some of you need to get a life, others of you need to run for office and get out from behind your computers and take a stand and make a difference.

Some of you seem like the "village idiot" harmless but annoying and at times cunning.

Joe b

Posted by: joeb on June 21, 2006 11:58 AM
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