August 31, 2006
Do bicycle sales need stronger regulations?
Seattle Times: "Police say woman killed by bus was "bumped" by bicyclist"
A man arrested in connection with the death of a woman run over by a bus in downtown Seattle Wednesday night apparently "bumped" her while he was riding his bicycle, said police spokeswoman Debra Brown.
Meanwhile, hundreds of these deadly weapons
are being sold everyday over the Internet, without background checks or a mandatory waiting period.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at August 31, 2006
07:53 PM | Email This
1. Tacky, Stefan
2. With so many of the people riding these things wobbling around in traffic, generally ignorning traffic laws and generally impeding the flow of traffic it sure couldn't hurt.
They are dangerous and costing everyone else time, safety, wear and tear on their vehicles and not to mention gas, something needs to be done to get them off the roads.
Drive your car like so many of these bicyclist ride and you'll have fines, possibly arrest and most likely higher insurance costs.
They use the same roads as does everyone who pays for them without doing so. The only gas that is saved by these people is their own, the rest of us pay more by having to avoid and compensate for them.
Don't bother, I've heard all the arguments about how wonderful they are, but I deal with them daily on the roads.
Yes, very tired of dangerous, arrogant and smug without a cause people who ride bikes.
Yes, there are some who are responsible, I just don't see enough of them to make me feel any better.
3. "Bike" Control NOW!
:-)
4. I DEMAND a 5-day waiting list on bicycles!
Bicyclists on the streets of Seattle are freaking sociopaths. Arrogant, taking up the whole frigging road, riding in the middle at ten MPH when they are required BY LAW to stay the hell to the right UNLESS turning to the left.
But that may be the explanation- they're ALWAYS turning left.
Typical liberal "I'm more important than you are" arrogance. They ought to be dope-slapped. They certainly don't deserve more protection than they already have. I hope they find the guy who did this and run his balls (or her breasts)through the spokes.
5. How about annual license fees? How about manadatory insurance so the taxpayers don't have to pay for uninsured cyclists? How about a special tax on bicycle tires to offset the cost of bike lane maintenance and construction? What do you bet that the individual arrested in the case (who has since been released on personal recognizance because the judge didn't believe he was a flight risk) doesn't have insurance? Arresting officers also stated that they believed the suspect to have been intoxicated at the time of the accident. Drunk bicycling laws anyone?
6. Why are bicycles allowed on sidewalks anyway? In Seattle they are all over the place on the streets, highways, and sidewalks. Pedestrians have to dodge them and woe to a car that gets in their way.
7. I work two blocks down Third Ave. from where this accident happend. I was in the area yesterday when the police basically shut down the area for several hours.
I think Seattle actually does need stricter laws on bicyclists--either they stay in the road and keep the hell off the side-walks--or they get banned from downtown.
I can't tell you how many near accidents have almost taken place because bikers don't watch for cars, and cars don't watch for bikers. Now pedestrians are becoming a concern--but shouldn't it be the bikers who get the rap?
8. It's definitely the bikes killing people. Let's get these things out from under citizens now. When's the anti-bike march?
9. It is no different than a car running down a pedestrian in a crosswalk situation. An Individual has every right to walk on a sidewalk without being hit by a bike.
It is no different
10. You guys aren't getting the big picture. The metros want us all to ride the bus or ride bicycles.
So, instead of banning bikes (or regulating them), they would prefer to ban cars (if they had the choice, anyways- except for their own).
11. The City of Seattle code states that bicylists must yield to pedestrians. Yet we see all the time pedestrians jumping out of the way of these maniacs on bikes on city streets. If on sidewalks they should be walking their bikes NOT RIDING.
QUESTION: If there isn't enforcement of the "yield" code provision in this fatality WHEN WILL IT EVER BE ENFORCED?
12. When I drive in Seattle I am always going faster than the speed limit and most of you do too. We break the law problaly 90% of the time for speeding violations (when we are not in traffic jams)so we can't JUST blame cyclists. Most are obeying the laws. Those bikes aren't what is causing traffic flow problems and you know it. I don't think pedestrians should be on the same roads as cars or bikes. Seattle should license cell phones--- not drivers or bikers--- pedestrians and drivers like me use them all the time while walking or driving and create a hazard to all of us. Not looking and gabbing away at chit chat...I love to speed, call my friends and eat fries while driving through our city. Some times I can't even turn on the wipers or make a signal for a lane change because I have a CD to put in, a hot tall coffee in my lap, some fries that need ketchup buried deep in my McDs sack, and it is hard to read my cell phone contact numbers when it is overcast let alone light my cigarette. How do you expect me to concentrate on the speedometer OR cyclists OR pedestrians?
13. It ain't the bikes, it's the morons on the bikes. Twice in the last month I nearly hit a bike in Seattle: First time bikers blew through a red light right in downtown, if I didn't drive in downtown like I expect pedestrians and bikes to behave like suicidal idiots I would have nailed them. Second time bike blew the red and turned into my lane in going in the same direction, of course I honked, which prompted this ijit to beat on side of my van and yell a string of profanities.
As long as they follow the rules I give 'em a break. Otherwise...
14. Bicycles don't kill people, people kill people. Is that not the point?
While it may be your bumper that actually does the life ending crunch in most cases. Seeing things from both ends of the viewpoint as a rider and a driver I understand many of the arguments made above (and those made by cyclists).
What we do know is that #1 irrelevant of what you drive, it should be done responsibly. "For those who commit the crime...", well you know the rest.
Last thing we need is folks in cars vigilantly "stopping" cyclists from breaking the law with 5000lbs hunks of metal (or 8,000lbs in my case).
15. I'm just teaching my kids (10 and 13) the 'rules of the road' when it comes to riding a bicycle:
- Ride on the right-side of the road whenever it's possible (and safe to do so)
- Obey all of the traffic signs, rules, and laws that apply to motorized traffic
- Use hand signals to indicate turns, look over your shoulder, and never take your eyes off the road. Be aware where everyone is.
- Don't ever EXPECT that _anyone_else_ will follow the rules, laws, etc.
- Ride on the sidewalk ONLY if there are no pedestrians, otherwise WALK IT
- Pedestrians ALWAYS have the right-of-way, on AND OFF the sidewalk
- Ride with enough caution for yourself AND all of the other drivers
- If they hit someone (car, person, etc.), my kid's know that I will hold THEM (the children) responsible
Okay, my kids are scared to death to ride on the road - and they should be - but they do it, and they do it safely (I also PRACTICE what I preach).
I believe that bicyclist should be charged and ticketed much more frequently than they are - they should be held accountable to the same laws as automobiles (including intoxicated riding).
In the same breath, there are way to many arrogant motorized vehicle drivers out there that feel they own the road. Just the other day, I got yelled at by a driver passing me, shouting a string of obsenities that turned the air blue, because we were on a narrow road and he had to slow down to wait for oncoming traffic before he could pass me safely (I'd love to see the big guy say the same things to me face-to-face, away from the safety of his speeding van). Car drivers need to be made aware that THEY NEED TO SHARE THE ROAD with bicyclist. See Rex Karr's post #12.
16. THose dangerous bicycles exist for one reason and one reason only - to knock people into moving busses. We need bicycle control now! Call Jim McDermott - this happened in HIS district!
17. I must say that I get much more attitiude and arrogance from bicyclists. I live along the Mercer Slough and there is a good sized bicycle lane. There seems to be a fairly large quantity of cyclists that feel theat their calibre of riding (based on their gear) are above riding in the bike lane and insist on riding in the car lane. When you give them a wide birth they give you the upturned fist or the bird. I'm sure the bulk of these are Seattle folks that came accross the I-90 bridge to take it to the rich east siders.
18. When I was a young lad... you had to buy a $5.00 license for your bike and the money went to pay for Bike Training and Recovery by police of stoles bikes.
Now we have SPANDEX CLAD, GREEN, and SAVE OUR PLANET TERRORIST on our streets demanding special Bike Lanes and Trails everywhere. They drive in the roadway, block traffic, and cause mayhem.
Why don't we pass a law that makes bike riders get a Bicycle License ($25.00 every 5 years) and a ($5.00) License Plate fee that they need to renew every year, like the rest of us? These funds could pay for the Bicycle Lanes, Paths, and keep obstructionist, obtuse, niggardly, intemperate, rapacious Urban Gorilla Bikers out of our roadways!
If they do not like it... let them move to France or China...where they can peddle their ass's to their harts content!!!
19. Remember the old feminist slogan - "A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle".
Woman = fish, man = bicycle. There you have it - men and bicycles are homicidal instruments of the patriachal hegemonistic capitalistic war mongering class. Bush pushed her. Or RoveCheneyRumsfeld. Or the Israelis. Arms are for hugging. Visualize World Jihad.
20. Phlash,
You're generalizing (and spelling) with the same quality that liberals label conservatives as "baby killers" and "anti-environment". Aside from illustrating emotive irrationalism, you're missing the point. It is not the category or method of transportation/recreation a person uses, it is ONLY the persons who have "obtuse, niggardly, intemperate, rapacious"- attitudes that deserve judgment. No matter it is in a gasoline powered ride or a carbohydrate powered ride.
P.S. One biker on the side or another SUV in the center of the road, take your pick.
21. It's not just the cyclists on the roads that are a problem, but the cyclists on the trails are just as obnoxious and dangerous to pedestrians. I regularly walk the Samamish Slough Trail in the Woodinville area. There is no dispute that pedestrians have the right-of-way and there is a posted 15 mph speed limit. However, a majority of the cyclists ignore the speed limit and expect the pedestrians to get out of their way. The "on your left" statement they routinely say is more of a command to move out of their way than a courtesy to warn of their approach. And the problem is most pedestrains do move out of the way. I don't. I am always on the right side of the trail anyway and I hold my ground when a cyclist calls out to me. On several occasions cyclists have said some smart remark to me as they passed by, clearly communicating their dismay that I did not move out of their way.
I think the most dangerous place for my 2-year old right now is on that trail. If she happens to get away from me and steps in front of one of those speeding cyclists, the outcome is not going to be pretty.
I've been very tempted to have a t-shirt printed up that states on the back: "Share the Trail - Pedestrians Have Right Away" as a take-off of the "Share the Road" signs I routinely see. Will the cyclists get the message? Probably not. Until the cyclists change their attitude (highly unlikely), the only solution is to separate the pedestrians from the cyclists. There is plenty of land available along the Samamish Slough trail to put down a parallel paved trail and the cyclists should be the ones to pay for it. That way they can speed to their hearts' content and the pedestrians can safely walk on the trail without worrying about being run over by some rude and obnoxious cyclist.
22. Stefan,
Looks like next time you might have to put a special asterisk with sarcasm and/or allegory noted, as clearly many people here did not get it. ;-)
23. (Pssst...LMK...you might want to make your T-shirt read correctly by changing the inscription to "Share the Trail - Pedestrians Have Right Of Way." Otherwise you'll get cyclists trying to run you down AND insulting your grammar!) ;-)
24. I'm always convinced that I must be the only conservative riding on the Gilligan Trail or the Sammamish River Trail. Most cyclists pay no attention to pedestrians, children, or animals. I slow to a crawl, particularly around small children. I once saw an elderly man run down by a cyclist as he struggled towards home with a bag of groceries. The cyclist didn't even stop. I know I'm being general but seeing this kind of behavior on a routine basis further convinces me that liberals are some of the most selfish, impolite people anywhere.
25. Steve-
Funny, funny stuff.
Old guys wearing spandex = terrorism.
26. When bikes are outlawed...Only outlaws will ride bikes!
But seriously... The only thing worse than a lot of these bikers attitudes is their clothes... They seem to think that if they dress like Lance that we should shut down the streets and give them a ticker tape parade... Another pet peeve is having to pass the same one 3 or more times in heavy traffic as they slip through and run the stops...
On another note I had the good fortune of personally meeting the "Shark" last Monday night as we both exercised our kid(s) at a local park.
It's kind of nice to see the other side (outside the blog) of people like him. It makes this whole experience here a lot more real.
Whether I agree with any of you or not, I do enjoy reading the exchange of ideas and of course, the occasional bit of humor!
27. I must say that I was shocked to see that cyclists were permitted on the sidewalks in downtown when I moved here from NYC. In most sensible cities, cyclists must dismount on the sidewalk. The only public land where they may ride is on the street or on designated bike paths (which hardly exist in NYC but are plentiful here).
It is a real problem, and it's past time for Seattle to recognize that mounted cyclists do not belong on the sidewalk.
I won't get into the five-minute-hate dogpile on cyclists in general - I have commuted by bike before (not on the sidewalk) and in general I am in favor of fewer cars on the road, particularly when it's by individual choice rather than government mandate.
28. LMK, I have had similar experiences in the Sammamish trail near Bothell. On one excursion a few months agao, I was walking with my kids and out of about 25 bicyclists that passed us from behind, only about 10% even said, "on your left".
Yet, bike riders complain about how cars treat them in this same manner....
I've also had occasion to be upset with bike riders that, when they have an official bike lane, tend to ride on the outside edge of the white line separating the car lane from the bike lane.
29. There are times when I have to put on the pedestrian mantle of Mr. Walker (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Mania).
The last time I was almost hit by a car was when my friend Mark and I were walking home from elementary school in White Center. Had to jump out of the way of an old white Dodge Dart barreling down the sidewalk at 4th and 102nd.
I've been almost hit several times by bike riders over the past few years. The latest was a week ago crossing Alaska Way going to Red Robin on the waterfront. Biker blew through a red light going about 20-25 mph and almost hit myself, an elderly lady and her daughter at a crosswalk. Didn't even slow down to apologize.
Similar incidents have occured in the U-District, Capitol Hill and Downtown.
Granted, not every motorist is a bad driver and "most" bike riders obey the laws of the road. The difference I see is that police will cite motorists for traffic infractions. I've never seen a bike rider ticketed.
30. As the spaces for travel become more congested/busy, sharing courteously, efficiently, and with relative safety requires some increased level of shared understanding, education and enforcement of what is appropriate behavior... whether the travel is done by bike, foot or motor vehicle and whether on road or trail.
Roads have rules of behavior established largely by law and somewhat by the local culture. All who travel on public facilities, including bicyclists, must be educated, encouraged and/or forced through threat of penalty to adhere to the rules.
I'm for strict, even automated dedetction and penalty for those who flout our shared rules of behavior.
I use a bicycle for much of my transportation by choice. I also own and use motor vehicles. I bike like I drive - legally. I want everyone else to do the same.
Roads are for people not only for people in cars.
31. The main perps are the bicycle messengers hopped up on crank, and I don't mean the mechanical kind. My Metro bus driver says it's only a matter of time before she squashes one. Blame it on their pushers: lawyers serving papers to each other.
32. I am unalterably opposed to the indiscriminate running down of cyclers - I only target the ones that need it ;'}
33. The comment by Patrick just BEGS a response. He says that Seattle needs stricter laws on bicyclists or that perhaps bikes should be banned from downtown. All of this because he has seen many "near accidents" because "nikes don't want for cars and cars don't watch for bikers."
So here are my questions Patrick: Why ban the bikes? Why not ban the cars? Since when has someone on a bike killed someone in a car? The reverse happens every day all over the world.
34. David (33) - Why not ban the cars? - because the gasoline taxes and car tab excise taxes pay for the dang roads, that's why.
When bike owners start paying road taxes they can lobby the legislature to ban cars from the streets. Until then, everyone should follow the rules of the road, use common courtesy and remember - physics determines the outcome in a collision between a 3000 lb. object and a 200 lb. object.
35. Liberals and enviromentalists wackos want us to junk our SUVs and ride bicycles why dont they try peddling up the side of mount crumpet and ride down real fast with a real big tree right in front of them
36. I'm ok with sharing the road with bicyclists. The operative word here is "share." That means they have to be respectful of me too. To share is reciprocal.
Bicyclers must obey the same rules as cars.
That means:
No passing on the right, at stoplights, stop signs or anywhere. You wait in line like the rest of us or get off and walk.
If you are holding up traffic by more than 5 cars you must pull over and let them pass.
In other words, If you are going to act like a car then ACT LIKE A CAR and if not, then get off your bike and walk.
Arthur, if you really SHARE the road like you say you do then good on ya. I too have kids and teach them to be safe and smart. But, if that guy that turned the air blue was in a black van, then it was me and you were NOT sharing the road, you were aggressively hogging it for no other reason than to be an ass. Still want that face-to-face? Contact me here :D I can oblige.
37. I'm ok with sharing the road with bicyclists. The operative word here is "share." That means they have to be respectful of me too. To share is reciprocal.
Bicyclers must obey the same rules as cars.
That means:
No passing on the right, at stoplights, stop signs or anywhere. You wait in line like the rest of us or get off and walk.
If you are holding up traffic by more than 5 cars you must pull over and let them pass.
In other words, If you are going to act like a car then ACT LIKE A CAR and if not, then get off your bike and walk.
Arthur, if you really SHARE the road like you say you do then good on ya. I too have kids and teach them to be safe and smart. But, if that guy that turned the air blue was in a black van, then it was me and you were NOT sharing the road, you were aggressively hogging it for no other reason than to be an ass. Still want that face-to-face? Contact me here :D I can oblige.
38. Bycyclist's on streets need to learn the rules of the road!! I walk a trail in my area and have noticed that the bycyclists that ride it are usually much more considerate.