November 26, 2006
Boondoggle expansion predicted

"Light rail system expansion predicted"

The nation's top transportation official visits the Puget Sound region on Monday, and a prediction is she'll announce another move to extend the region's light rail system north to the University of Washington.
..
Sound Transit Board Chairman John Ladenburg said he believes [Secretary of Transportation Mary] Peters will announce that her agency is recommending congressional approval of as much as $750 million in federal cash toward the $1.7 billion cost of the extension.
(This is presumably accurate insider "speculation") The responsible thing would have been to wait until the first piece of light rail is at least operational for a while to get a better sense of the cost/benefit trade-offs before recommending spending more money to expand the thing.

This is the sort of incontinence that leaves us small-government fiscal conservatives dyspeptic about the Congress and the Bush administration.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at November 26, 2006 07:45 PM | Email This
Comments
1. So, that'll bump up the cost of this colossal waste of money from the fraudulent $2.2 billion for 21 miles to an even more fraudulent $5.7 billion for 14 miles plus the extension... right?

Posted by: Hinton (Former Seattleite) on November 26, 2006 08:54 PM
2. Sure the light rail project will become a boondoggle but what about that pyramid that our big fat pharaoh, I mean tunnel that our big fat mayor wants to build as a legacy to himself? It will cost several time more than $1.7 billion at a bare minimum.

While the mayor dreams of grandiose projects the streets of Seattle are crumbling back to their natural state.

Posted by: Bill K. on November 26, 2006 09:02 PM
3. Bus service from Tukwila to Seattle to UW is currently great. And after all this money is spent, I still won't be able to get from Renton to Bellevue Community College, by bus or by train.

Posted by: Seabecker on November 26, 2006 09:11 PM
4. Ladenburg is an old school pork barreler who loves to see his name in the paper with dollar signs next to it. Which might explain a lot.

I'm a big fan of rail transit, but for it to work it need to be a network not just one train and it needs to NOT have to stop at every freaking stop light.

Posted by: me on November 26, 2006 10:07 PM
5. Repeat after me:

Light rail is good.
Cars are bad.
Light rail is good.
Cars are bad.

Would you like some more kool-aid?

I happened along a drilling crew few years ago doing test cores in the UW area for the rail project. They were very entertained by the idea of a tunnel. At the depths proposed the layer was sand and gravel, wet sand and gravel. The worst possible stuff for tunneling. So expect cost overruns when they "run" into this unexpected problem.

Posted by: JCM on November 26, 2006 10:53 PM
6. What a total crock. The Rs deserve to sit it out for awhile, if they're going to do this kind of junk.

Posted by: Misty on November 27, 2006 12:01 AM
7. my internet news says Boston is suing re: the Big Dig--

perfect timing for Nickels--will he be asked about it by a brave press corps intern in Seattle? (hearing crickets....)

Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on November 27, 2006 07:36 AM
8. Let's start a pool on what day they will trot out "ridership on Tacoma Link Light Rail far exceeds projections" as a selling point. These people think they are operating in the pre-information age when none of the msm would call them on this obvious canard. Their projected numbers were for a service that had a fare box cost to riders, good God if the price of admission to the Rolls Royce drivers club went to zero $ the number of Rolls Royce drivers would "exceed projections" as well.

Posted by: JDH on November 27, 2006 08:10 AM
9. We need to discuss who is running for some of these positions in King County Dec 2nd so that we can intelligently decide who should take the reigns of the Local GOP.

Reganites, Evanites, Log Cabin? I wish there was a more complete discussion of what is going to happen on December 2nd and who will be behind the players we will see.

Posted by: Sean on November 27, 2006 08:50 AM
10. For some reason I had an image of someone saying "would you like a free pony?" All it needs is some hay and water. Yep. Even free ponies have unexpected costs like the vet, the groomer, the equipment, the stall, etc. I wish Sec Peters would also say "here's what we're giving you, and here's what you're on the hook for, do you still want it?"

I also wish she'd say "your region has lots of big projects. The feds can give you $750MM. How do you want to allocate it: 520 (bus lanes), park and ride structures, support for vanpools, funding to get toll roads up and running, rail running along existing tracks, or light rail on completely new tracks and tunnels?"

But I guess that's not how DC works, unfortunately.

Posted by: Stuart Jenner on November 27, 2006 09:00 AM
11. This is the sort of incontinence that leaves us small-government fiscal conservatives dyspeptic about the Congress and the Bush administration.

We have a little misplaced blame here. I hope and pray for smaller, more efficient and responsible government every day of my life. Fat bloated unresponsive government has been around a lot longer than Bush and the present congress.

Posted by: G Jiggy on November 27, 2006 09:44 AM
12. If you look at the projects close, you will find that this system will cost $32,000 per INCH to build! Then we need to operate and maintain the system!

Right now, the Tacoma Link cost the taxpayers $ 5.70 for each BOARDING (using Sound Transit's own numbers) just to operate, and is operating at 33% capacity (again using Sound transit's numbers). This does not include the "FREE" parking that cost the taxpayers $ 12.00 per space per day!!

Compared to Sound Transit Buses, Where taxpayers only subsidize rider at $ 2.35 per boarding!!!

The Sounder Train subsidizes each rider to the tune of...are you ready for this...$32,500 per rider per year!!!! John Ladenburg tells us the answer is more trains...hey John why not just buy every Sounder Train rider a new CADILLAC...just like Judge Andersons!!!

Posted by: Pacific Grove Phlash on November 27, 2006 09:47 AM
13. Ladenburg is all about Ladenburg and not a whole lot more.

Just last week, the Tacoma News Tribune ran a front page story about a con artist named Hillary Walls. It turns out that the reason why it was a front page story, is that one of Walls' victims was John Ladenburg's secretary.

My father-in-law was scammed in Gig Harbor recently, but he's not a Ladenburg crony, so the perp who scammed him didn't get front page coverage from the Tribune.

Ladenburg is just another tax and spend liberal government bureaucrat who likes to play Monopoly, complete with the toy trains, using our money. All we can expect is more waste and a transit system that will take at least 50 more years before it is even remotely useable or economically sound.

Posted by: Jeff B. on November 27, 2006 10:19 AM
14. The worst thing is that the multi-billion dollar RTID that's coming next year is probably going to include A LOT of money for Sound Transit, and we do not have a choice in the matter - it's all or nothing. It's probably going to pass because people want something done about the major projects, and then the government can say that "the people" wanted whatever toy train that Sound Transit builds because it's all part of the same package.

Posted by: Palouse on November 27, 2006 10:25 AM
15. Just learn to Say and Vote NO.

Posted by: George on November 27, 2006 10:43 AM
16. Next step in expanding mass transit? Easy answer, add a carpool lane....
That is always the answer.
"that giant sucking sound we hear is the money pit known as sound transit"

Posted by: Right Stuff on November 27, 2006 10:51 AM
17. If only it were that easy George.

State lawmakers last session required both the highway and Sound Transit measures to pass together, or they both fail. Supporters of the two packages want permission from the Legislature to combine them into one ballot measure, arguing in part that the move would avoid voter confusion and increase the odds of approval next year.

Rep. Jeff Morris, D-Mount Vernon, said that if voters end up rejecting the three-county proposal, the Legislature is more likely to take action on its own, given the larger Democratic majorities.

Why even bother voting on it? The Democratic super-majority will just pass it anyway.

Posted by: Palouse on November 27, 2006 10:57 AM
18. -This is the sort of incontinence that leaves us small-government fiscal conservatives dyspeptic about the Congress and the Bush administration.-

This grant comes from the Federal Transit Administration. If we don't get the money, some other red state like AZ, TX or Utah will get it. But Seattle's project rated higher than all the rest because of the incredible decrease in travel time compared to buses light rail will afford, and because of the 70,000 riders a day who will use it. Regular pork has no strings or performance attached. At least these light rail systems have to compete using a neutral set of criteria.

-At the depths proposed the layer was sand and gravel, wet sand and gravel. The worst possible stuff for tunneling. So expect cost overruns when they "run" into this unexpected problem.-

Nothing like a casual conversation with a crew collecting core samples to fully understand geo-engineering. Fact is, JCM, ST will be boring through the same glacial till they are successfully boring through under Beacon Hill. The tunnel to the UW is only 3x the length of the Beacon Hill bore. Not to mention the fact Eropeans have bored through the Alps, and the Japanese have bored under the sea. 3 miles using improved tunnel boring technology really isn't a big deal. Unless, of course, you detest the light rail transit which will be operating in that tunnel, and the 13 minute trip its passengers will be enjoying.

-I'm a big fan of rail transit, but for it to work it need to be a network not just one train and it needs to NOT have to stop at every freaking stop light. -

Me: ther are no stoplights under ground, and there are only two stations on the UW line. On the first line, which is over half complete, ST says trains will have priority along MLK Blvd. This won't cause much disruption in auto flow, because (thanks to Lake Washington and Beacon Hill) there isn't much cross-traffic.

-the multi-billion dollar RTID that's coming next year is probably going to include A LOT of money for Sound Transit, and we do not have a choice in the matter - it's all or nothing. It's probably going to pass because people want something done about the major projects, and then the government can say that "the people" wanted whatever toy train that Sound Transit builds because it's all part of the same package. -

Sorry, Palouse. Recent WSDOT and ST surveys show the public actually has a higher preference for transit than roads in the urban areas of Puget Sound.
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/accountability/publicopinion/Documents/SurveyAugust2006.pdf

http://www.soundtransit.org/Documents/pdf/st2/ST_2006_Annual_Survey_Memo.pdf


The last time Shark weighed in on this subject, he claimed he had a stronger preference for buses. But that statement turned out to be a very thinly veiled smokescreen, given his contempt for the recently passed Transit Now bus inititiative. Election results show strong support for transit in many suburbs - far away from us commies in Seattle.

Posted by: WeNeedRoadsAndTransit on November 28, 2006 12:37 AM
19. The Transit Now initiative will fail to meet expectations, just as badly as the previous bus initiative did. None of the promised increases in service have come to pass and that was for 2 tenths instead of one. At the end of the RTID, ST and Transit Now projects all we will be left with is a very large report full of excuses of why they didn't work.

Posted by: Huh? on November 28, 2006 07:31 AM
20. Make NO MISTAKE it is a REPUBLICAN appointed beaureaucrat that is funneling YOU hard earned dollars down this rat hole. As I said before, the only way to make the numbers look even somewhat acceptable is to make the fare-box go away. Take a look at what happens when the fare-box is implimented.

Rail Runner Ridership Tails Off (NM-Richardson's Railroad)
The Albuquerque Journal ^ | November 25, 2006 | Lloyd Jojola

Ridership on the state's Rail Runner Express declined after introductory fares were instituted Nov. 1-- although those overseeing the service say the drop was less than they anticipated.

During the initial 3 1/2-month, free-use period, the train was averaging about 1,500 riders a day, said Lawrence Rael, Mid-Region Council of Governments executive director.

"We're now between 800 and 1,200 a day, depending on the day of the week," he said earlier this week. Some 5,124 people rode the train the work week of Oct. 30; 4,024 the following work week. (Nov. 7 was Election Day and Nov. 10 was a holiday); and 5,135 the week of Nov. 13, according to figures provided by Rael.

Noting the short length of the corridor the train serves-- it operates between Downtown and Bernalillo, for now-- Rael said project officials are "quite pleased with that level of ridership."

"We thought we were going to be a lot less than 500," he said. "We thought maybe it would be even in the 400 or 300 range, which is not unusual in that it's a very short corridor."

Posted by: JDH on November 28, 2006 08:14 AM
21. Oh guess what else they don't tell you...????...??? When they report "Some 5,124 people rode the train the week..." what they are actually doing is counting a round trip rider as TWO riders. This is a technique which is taught in the Urban Planning curriculem at the University of Washington and practically every other Urban Planning Dept these days is designed to manipulate the public and is patently dishonest.

Posted by: JDH on November 28, 2006 08:19 AM
22. I have come to accept this project, not as a transportation project, because it is not. Rather, I simply realize that this is a public works project, which it is.

This rail will fail for several reasons. First, it does not take people from where they live to where they work. Second, due to the route (which currently enjoys great bus service), the only riders will be those who already take the bus. A few busses may be displaced, but very few cars. Third, very few rail stations have an assocaited parking lot. Fourth, surface street level trains are a recipe for failure. They are slow and accident prone.

Posted by: Seabecker on November 28, 2006 11:25 AM
23. LOL--small government fiscal conservatives! None left...

Posted by: stop already on November 28, 2006 03:59 PM
24. Yes, they count a light rail round trip rider as two riders.

But in road projects, they also count a round trip as two cars for any given road, tunnel or bridge.

Posted by: JBK on December 3, 2006 09:18 AM
Post a comment
Name:


Email Address:


URL:


Comments:


Remember info?