AP: "House votes to delay math, science WASL requirement"
The Washington state House passed a measure Sunday to delay the requirement that students pass the math and science portions of Washington's high-stakes high-school graduation test.This effort to eliminate standards for math and science instruction may well be a deliberate move to manufacture more liberals who are so lacking in rudimentary analytical skills that they can't possibly understand or effectively question what government is doing. Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at April 22, 2007 04:51 PM | Email ThisThe bill would delay the math and science requirement to the class of 2013.
The House passed the measure 56-41.
Do they at least teach evolution in Seattle's science classes?
Posted by: David Mathews on April 22, 2007 04:51 PMI knew that when you left me and travelled across the country (making me the only authentic bicoastal entity in America) that it could only be a problem to me here.
How's the weather in Seattle?
Tou should know how difficult it is for me to have one toe in the Gulf of Mexico and the other toe in the Pacific ocean, the body on Earth and the soul in Heaven.
But I am not the sort of person who would demand my ego return. If there is work to be done in Seattle, my ego will get that work done.
Posted by: David Mathews on April 22, 2007 05:15 PMWe agree:
"This effort to eliminate standards for math and science instruction may well be a deliberate move to manufacture more liberals who are so lacking in rudimentary analytical skills that they can't possibly understand or effectively question what government is doing."
I have been saying this for months, speciafically as it relates to low-income children and children of color. We have always been the canary in the mineshaft. Our schools were dumbed down long before dumming down education went mainstream. Our families were destroyed by secular progresive policies which encouraged out of wedlock
births and dependency. Although, I wouldn't wish this turn of events on anyone, welcome to the very sad party.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2003674945_sundaymath22.html
When I pulled my kids out of the school system to begin homeschooling 8 years ago, I was thrilled to discover Saxon Math - which the article mentions - as a linear, traditional math curriculum. There are no pictures, no cute stories, nothing fuzzy at all - just classical proven formulas and lots of practice! And lo and behold...my sophomore took the PSAT last year and scored in the 95th percentile for 10th graders! Sadly, for many kids in our society the old axiom will prove true -"People who know math take money away from people who don't know math!"
Posted by: suzihomemaker on April 22, 2007 05:46 PMI agree with you as well. Part of the reason that low-income communities and low-income communities of color are suffering is because of economic issues which stem from capital formation and familiarity with the capitalist economic system and how that works. I am not going to debate whether capitalism is evil, that is what we have and all should be particpants. Without a solid education and grounding in the basics, the low-income are trapped and their votes are mined by those who want to keep them dumb and dependable.
Posted by: WVH on April 22, 2007 06:00 PMWhile I don't believe there is a "giant conspiracy" to keep sectors of the electorate ignorant and easily managed, I do believe that there are those who prefer to keep them mired in poverty so as to keep their own grip on power! It is truly sad, as many wonderful kids are given up on, rather than encouraged to reach their true potential. What do you see as a solution within the low-income communities? I fear we have lost a generation to the politics of multicultural victimhood and I'm not sure how we turn it around!
Posted by: suzihomemaker on April 22, 2007 06:22 PMThe solution is competition in education. Until it is possible to hire and fire all staff by those who should be held accountable, then nothing will change. Those that have the resources either time or money are moving their kids out of public school. Kids that are left behind are harder to educate and have more issues.
There is not a giant conspiracy in the sense that there is a giant blueprint to dumb down schools. What there is the inevitable result of a monopoly situation which is made worse by pols who owe their loyalty to special interests who provide $$$ for their election campaigns, rather than kids. Some of the pols are well meaning, but they often are tied to status quo ideology and have a real ideological resistence to competition in education. As long as there is no true competition in education, then public schools will continue to decline. Most pols will continue to request more dollars which go to the groups that support them and the kids left behind get further behind.
What is the name of that president that has not completed one complete sentence since taking office without stuttering. "Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice, don't get fooled again", and far, far worse.
Your Fuhrer ran every single business he ever had into bankruptcy, even with all his daddy's and granddaddy's connections. Think about it.
If daddy didn't get him his deal with the Rangers, he would be in a shelter, on welfare.
He has done a worse job running our country, than he did all those bankrupt businesses. When talking about Bush the business man, don't even mention the insider trading of the Harkin Energy stock. When yer daddy appoints the SEC chief, it is a lot harder to get investigated right?
Your hero Bush is by far the most ignorant president our country has ever had. Others agree.
http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=4515
Ask yourself. Why is it that US college students are overwhelmingly Democrats? Scientists?
I am far more worried about lack of education dummying down kids to be good loyal blind Republicons, than Demcorats. A thinking person would never listen to Rush, or Hannity repeat lie, after lie, after lie, and stay tuned.
The reality based community is allergic to liars. Even O'Riley said Rush should not be used as a source of information. Now that is telling it straight. He does get some things right occasionally.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that GOP control of our government has been a true disaster, and we may never recover our rightful place in the world.
I blame retarded lemming Republicons for far more problems in America, than the everyone should have a chance to get a good education, and get ahead Democrats. Sorry Stefan. If your main priority is to make sure drug companies do not have to compete, and to try to get the inheritance tax lifted, along with the 5 tax cuts that overwhelmingly helped the well off, what do you expect? A level playing field. Yeah right....
Posted by: Facts on April 22, 2007 09:30 PMStefan is able to answer for himself, let me give you the persepctive of an educator who focus in low-income kids, particularly those of color.
1. "Ask yourself. Why is it that US college students are overwhelmingly Democrats? Scientists?"
a. Do you have stats for this?
b. Ward Churchill is an example of many in academia. First, secular progressives tend to hire other secular progressives and then there is the tenure system which rewards those who go along to get along. A lawsuit is being prepared as we speak against the University of North Carolina. There are expected to be more. David Horowitz has written about the lack of ideological diversity on campus. You support diversity, don't you?
2."I blame retarded lemming Republicons for far more problems in America, than the everyone should have a chance to get a good education"
I am stunned by this statement. Are you not in favor of every child receiving a good basic education, no matter their circumstance? The NEA and WEA are in favor of that and they are hardly pubbie or rightwing. If you don't believe me, go to the NEA site and check the issues they support.
A good basic education is neither dem or pubbie. Hopefully, the result of the education is the ability to cite actual facts, critical thinking and research skills which will allow a person to cut through the crap put out by both parties. If you think there are problems now, iliteracy will make it worse. That is why third world countries with iliteracy rates of 30-40% are third world.
I'm sure the dems are glad you are on their team, I have never heard any one dis children receiving a basic education before.
Posted by: WVH on April 22, 2007 09:45 PMThe sun came out and I am agreeable. I agree with everything you say. Regarding the teaching certificate, that is one of the foundations of the education monopoly. Hess and others propose doing away with the current system and instituting the following:
1. Graduation from an accredidated four year college.
2. Test of knowledge in the subject area the teacher will be teaching.
3. Rigorous background check.
No doubt Gates would do fine in the subject area test.
The education monopoly has to be broken.
PC@17 - You obviously don't know what the word "theory" means in a scientific context. Before spreading more misinformation, try looking it up in any dictionary, wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory), or any basic science book.
Posted by: Bruce on April 22, 2007 11:29 PMThey'll continue to crank out thousands of so-called graduates that will CONTINUE to need remedial reading, writing, science and math classes before they can even begin their community college classes.
Yeah... the children of this state have been well served by the lackeys of the WEA... AKA democrats in government.
Posted by: Hinton on April 23, 2007 12:26 AMThey'll continue to crank out thousands of so-called graduates that will CONTINUE to need remedial reading, writing, science and math classes before they can even begin their community college classes.
Yeah... the children of this state have been well served by the lackeys of the WEA... AKA democrats in government.
Posted by: Hinton on April 23, 2007 12:26 AMLet's not forget our Victory in Iraq.
Here is an example of pure Orwellian language from the military:
'Gated Communities' For the War-Ravaged
You should read that article carefully in order to gain to true appreciation of the horror which is George W. Bush's Iraq.
Posted by: David Mathews on April 23, 2007 05:07 AM"Families and Education win in Olympia"
intentional misuse of language is darn Orwellian...how in the world did Education win when they ripped the WASL apart..
Posted by: righton on April 23, 2007 06:25 AMGo to another thread this is not about global warming, Islamofacists or any of your other lame ideas.
The education monopoly is perpetuated because more and more of the parents needed to make successful schools are exiting. Then there is the teacher supply problem. Many quality candidates do not go into education and a great number of good teachers get frustrated and leave after a few years. It is more difficult to be a teacher because more and more children are coming to school not ready to learn and parents do not back teachers in discipline. I didn't follow the ultimate outcome, but there was a case out of Michigan. A high school kid called the principal a ho in the lunchroom in front of hundreds of kids. She kicked his butt out of school. The parents lawyered up with the ACLU and sued because it was free speech.
Also, our "leaders" are supporting the worst elements of our culture. Hillary went to a fundraiser at a hip fundraiser:
From Clinton, Hip-Hop Hypocrisy
By Colbert I. King
Saturday, April 21, 2007; Page A17
Put me in the camp of those who implore Sen. Hillary Clinton to give it back -- "it" being the reported $800,000 that's sitting in her presidential campaign coffers thanks to a fundraiser hosted in her honor March 31 in the Pinecrest, Fla., home of a huge Clinton fan who refers to himself as Timbaland.
In response to my questions, Clinton campaign spokesman Blake Zeff said in an e-mail this week that it cost $1,000 just to get into Timbaland's fundraiser, that about 200 guests were on hand and that the senator was accompanied by former president Bill Clinton.
You would not be reading about Clinton or about Timbaland -- who entered this vale of tears 36 years ago in Norfolk under the name Timothy Mosley -- were it not for the fact that he is a well-heeled hip-hop producer and noted performer of the kind of misogynistic and denigrating lyrics that informed Don Imus's derogatory comments about the Rutgers women's basketball team.
Mrs. Clinton, you may recall, took umbrage at Imus's remarks, branding them "small-minded bigotry and coarse sexism." His words, she said in an e-mail to supporters, "showed a disregard for basic decency and were disrespectful and degrading to African Americans and women everywhere."
Good for her, I say, except it must be asked why she was down in Florida making nice to -- and pocketing big bucks from -- a rapper whose obscenity-laced lyrics praise violence, perpetuate racist stereotypes and demean black women" This rapper's lyrics are disgusting.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/20/AR2007042001589.html?referrer=emailarticle
These are some of the elements influencing kids.
So, should this "leader", Hillary give back the money? She called for the ouster of Imus.
The education monopoly exists because the same groups that are outraged when monopolies exist in the private sector and demand that they are broken up, protect and want to soldify the education monopoly. This monopoly has to be broken up and competition introduced to improve education.
This is a black/white issue. There is no reason to delay the WASL and its ramifications for failure. The future will be the same as today. Get rid of it.
When I was growing up in the 50s, the minimum education the schools required the kids to take was the 8th grade. Why are we trying to graduate kids who can't read or write from high school? Let them be.
Posted by: swatter on April 23, 2007 06:59 AMEveryone is focused on the WASL, which is good, but slipping by everyone is the dropout rate and numbers of kids who don't graduate in a timely manner. There is a real time bomb in education.
I maintain that our lawyer gov and the lawyers in OSPI had to delay the WASL because they were looking at some huge legal liability. They were probably scared that a parent or group of parents would sue for the defective education their children are receiving. Kids are not being educated to the standard to pass any rigorous test which demonstrates a basic understanding of education needed to exist in modern society. The WASL is simply a test and it may have flaws, but many kids just can't pass any test, even one that is designed better. The WASL is probably dead and those graduating from public schools will probably be at a disadvantage in the future as most urban public schools decline. There will still be some schools in the burbs and some rural areas that will be OK, but by and large our public schools are on the decline.
What's that giant sucking sound? Small businesses leaving this state!
Oh and Stefan, can we ban DM from this blog - he's rarely on topic, he's not from this area and he's an idiot. Thanks.
Posted by: Jeffro on April 23, 2007 07:22 AMRegarding keeping kids in school past the 8th grade, the question is now being looked at in England. Generally, students there that are not university bound leave school around 16. There is some thought to keeping them longer because:
1. The maturity level of a 16 YOA, what does one
do with them? Work opportunity? Community
College? Trade School? Hanging on a street
corner?
2. The skill level necessary to exist in a global
economy.
We seem to be attracting the worst aspects of Europe. Most parents who can afford it, aren't sending their children to urban public schools.
That is the European model. A government education there generally dooms a child to failure.
Keeping kids who can't read a comic book after the eighth grade and make them go to high school makes the environment worse for those that want to learn.
That was 30 years ago; it is worse now.
Hang around street corners? They do that already since they skip class anyways. I think the kids should concentrate on work skills they can do without reading a manual. One of the kids we got to know is an absolute gem as a menial worker, small engine repair specialist or mechanic. A good mechanic can make a ton of money these days. Yet, the poor guy won't graduate from high school. School is meaningless because he can't read.
And WVH, our society has changed so much that the pure menial jobs are hard to find due to the computer and extra complexities in our society.
But, I still say if you aren't going to enforce the WASL today, then get rid of it. Nothing will change.
Posted by: swatter on April 23, 2007 08:10 AM
I saw the Boeing pier yesterday. It's complete!
The only thing it doesn't have is cranes. 0-:
And they way it's built. I don't think it's good for anything else.
"In common usage, people often use the word theory to signify a conjecture, an opinion, or a speculation. In this usage, a theory is not necessarily based on facts; in other words, it is not required to be consistent with true descriptions of reality."
In the days when school meant something, theory was what you tried to prove using science.
So the schools teach "Evolution Theory"
Hopefully, I won't have to make it that simple for you again Bruce.
Posted by: PC on April 23, 2007 08:42 AMFor two weeks this spring, my son had late arrival (2 hours late) because sophomores were taking the WASL. When the test is being given, the school administration tries to limit the attendance to those who are taking it. I am not sure if this is to minimize distractions or because of use-of-space considerations. Why not just make every junior take the SAT (as many do already) and use that as the standard?
Posted by: Peggy U on April 23, 2007 08:54 AMSo in the effort to kill America, they have decided to do it from within, relying on the useful idiots that have always been there; the intellectually lazy, the arrogant, the power hungry. They knew that we could not be stopped militarily, even the Soviet Union in its prime didn't want to tangle with us. We had to be defeated from within. The socialist planners have long had a plan to do just that. I read it back in the early 1970's. We had to be more interested in sports and entertainment than in preserving our freedom. It could be wrested from us while we were not looking, our attention would be directed elsewhere. There were something like 10 points on the list.
The ruining of our education system, the dumbing down of our kids plays into their hands.
I agree with Jeffro, it's time for Matthews to go. He has nothing to offer for discussion, he is impervious to logic, is tedious to read because he says nothin new, and frankly he is an enemy of freedom loving people. The same is true of the poster calling himself facts. They are only a whisker away from being traitors.
BTW Facts;
I'm no Bush neo-con lover. I think the Iraq war was a bad idea. You are more akin to Hitler than anyone to the right of center. NATIONAL SOCIALISTS or NAZI. If you're calling people from the right socialists, you are an incredibly ignorant person.
1. The WASL is simply one test. There would
be similar problems with the SAT. The problem is the education is so crummy that a rigorous test of knowledge is what kids can't pass. School is teaching them squat. That is the problem, not a test or test program.
2. The next big issue is graduation and drop out stats. Do schools make their stats look better by carrying kids on the books that they know have dropped out? Remember $$ follow the kid. Our public education system is a ticking time bomb on so many fronts. Meanwhile, the pols in charge pour more money into a failing system which rewards their supporter vase.
Posted by: WVH on April 23, 2007 09:09 AMWashington State is setting the (low) standard.
but hey--we get 2 days of native American studies & can rattle off many salmon & critter ledgends.(still dont understand how that skirts the religion & spiritual separation of state & schools issues)
but anyway, being a story shaman will get you a great job in chemical engineering & advanced science. charter schools & vouchers NOW!
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on April 23, 2007 10:22 AMFortunately, much of this will end when Dino Rossi becomes our next governor.
lack motivation to pursue education and fail
Posted by: Paddy on April 23, 2007 10:28 AMHey dude what's up? Thanks for feeding me. Now I am bigger than Al Gore's carbon footprint. It was really cool of you to add to me by using the petroleum based product like the plastic keyboard on which you type your drivel. You do a real good job of ignoring me just like Al Gore ignores HIS carbon footprint. Frankly we are tired of you ignoring us. We love you! After all, without you and AL, how else could we bake the planet???
Posted by: David Mathews Carbon Footprint on April 23, 2007 10:30 AM"Stafan, you are kidding right? The word ignorant pretty much describes the average Republicon voter. And they are having to be more ignorant daily to believe in their current leadership. Pretty soon you will need a straight jacket to call yourself a true Republicon.
What is the name of that president that has not completed one complete sentence since taking office without stuttering. "Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice, don't get fooled again", and far, far worse.
Your Fuhrer ran every single business he ever had into bankruptcy, even with all his daddy's and granddaddy's connections. Think about it.
If daddy didn't get him his deal with the Rangers, he would be in a shelter, on welfare.
He has done a worse job running our country, than he did all those bankrupt businesses. When talking about Bush the business man, don't even mention the insider trading of the Harkin Energy stock. When yer daddy appoints the SEC chief, it is a lot harder to get investigated right?
Your hero Bush is by far the most ignorant president our country has ever had. Others agree.
http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=4515
Ask yourself. Why is it that US college students are overwhelmingly Democrats? Scientists?
I am far more worried about lack of education dummying down kids to be good loyal blind Republicons, than Demcorats. A thinking person would never listen to Rush, or Hannity repeat lie, after lie, after lie, and stay tuned.
The reality based community is allergic to liars. Even O'Riley said Rush should not be used as a source of information. Now that is telling it straight. He does get some things right occasionally.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that GOP control of our government has been a true disaster, and we may never recover our rightful place in the world.
I blame retarded lemming Republicons for far more problems in America, than the everyone should have a chance to get a good education, and get ahead Democrats. Sorry Stefan. If your main priority is to make sure drug companies do not have to compete, and to try to get the inheritance tax lifted, along with the 5 tax cuts that overwhelmingly helped the well off, what do you expect? A level playing field. Yeah right...."
I highlighted just some of your errors. Actually your use of "Demcorats" is probably just your well educated reclassification of the the liberal party is a new family of rodentia order.
You call yourself "Facts" but have yet to post a single one. I suggest you preface it with "Lack of" in future posts for sake of accuracy. Maybe we will give you a pass this time for not naming yourself educated.
Posted by: pbj on April 23, 2007 10:41 AMThe Governor and Legislature have overtly institutionalized the bigotry of low expectations by eliminating math and science standards with which to measure under-performing students through 2013. Their focus is on the poor, many of whom do not understand that social advancement is dependent upon an good education. This is racism at its worst because a majority of the underclass are minorities. Without standards, goals and incentives, those in the economic underclass are doomed to remain poor.
Fortunately, much of this will end when Dino Rossi becomes our next governor.
Posted by: Paddy on April 23, 2007 11:02 AMIn science (emphasis mine), a theory is a mathematical description, a logical explanation, a verified hypothesis, or a proven model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the current theory of gravitation.
This is the foundation of the scientific method, which is hopefully taught in our schools and tested on the WASL....
Posted by: Bruce on April 23, 2007 11:06 AMAnd you say "wiki uses the term 'mathematical'". Yes, it does, in the phrase "a mathematical description, a logical explanation, a verified hypothesis, or a proven model". The word "or" means one of these.
Not only would you fail the WASL in science, but also in reading comprehension. Sheesh.
Posted by: Bruce on April 23, 2007 01:11 PMAt least until such time as our state legislators decide to pull their heads out of thier asses and demand some accountability from both teachers and the students alike.
Posted by: Ed on April 23, 2007 07:44 PMThe point is not the test, but giving a sufficient number of students a basic education so that whatever test is taken, they have a reasonable chance. Otherwise, we are giving money to test developers to tell us that kids can't pass a test. The SAT has been around a while, but there are some problems with that as well. It would, however, be cheaper to find out the the public schools are not educating most children.
George:
Family upbringing is a large part of the equation, but not all. Where is the Math, a group whose members post here often, does good work on math curriculum. Another part of the equation is expectations for student success as well. Marva Collins and other have demonstrated that even throwaway children can achieve given a strong school and a strong school curriculum.
Posted by: WVH on April 23, 2007 09:30 PMWhich count is this? How far are we behind?
Posted by: gs on April 23, 2007 09:58 PMvoting ballots will soon look like the McDonald's food picture menu. third world, here we slide!
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on April 24, 2007 10:01 AM