July 02, 2007
Summer Travel Got you Down?
If you're like me, you harbor a deep dislike of the old-school airline carriers. A hatred so intense it might just border on the irrational. Mostly I think it comes down to the fact they generally suck, though perhaps that's not a strictly clinical opinion.
Alaska? Good. Southwest? Pretty good. Frontier? No complaints. JetBlue? I hear good things.
United? [Bleep] You.
American? Ditto.
US Airways? Double [Bleep] You.
Delta? Well, read this post from blogger Dean Barnett.
It's a long post, but really worth the read. Especially if you try and picture the scenes as described with Dean Barnett employing is thick as "chowdah" Boston accent in which he takes such pride. The dripping sarcasm is absolutely delicious.
Now, air travel is not expected to be very fun this summer. So happy campers, steel yourself for the pain to come if you're traveling the not-so-friendly skies.
On the plus side, even a bad trip probably won't be as maddening as Barnett's...emphasis on "probably."
**Note: I did not even include America West in the airlines listed above. I believe there is a specific circle of hell set aside for certain persons in the company's employment. The multiple tales I've heard of enraged customers are enough to induce thumb sucking, including one that resulted in the most mild-mannered woman I've ever met threatening an America West employee with bodily harm for total failure to get her from Phoenix to Seattle faster than she could have rented a car and drove. Needless to say, they're on my personal "Do Not Fly" list.
Posted by Eric Earling at July 02, 2007
09:48 PM | Email This
1. I'll echo Eric's ''good'' and ''pretty good'' for Alaska and Southwest. Back when I used to do business travel 3-4 times a year I would usually go with one of those two carriers; if they went where I needed to go.
WRT ''good things'' about JetBlue:
Here is a noteworthy BAD thing, at least as far as I'm concerned:
Check out
http://www.yearlykosconvention.org/
You will see JetBlue listed as a major sponsor of the radical left-wing ''Yearly KOS'' convention, right up there next to moveon.org. That alone is enough to put them on my black list.
2. I retired from the US Dept of Defense in February. As a project manager, I was required to travel an average of once a month during the last 15 years of my employment. I empathize with Mr. Barnett but add that he hasn't seen anything until he has flown on lower than cheap rate government tickets. The airlines (yes, Delta is among the worst) treat you like human waste. Delta left me stranded in Salt Lake City without an explanation, offer of assistance or apology. I've had more flights cancelled than you can count and even more missed connections, usually as a result of mechanical problems with aircraft. And never, not once, was I offered a meal voucher, future free ticket or upgrade for my inconvenience. Seldom have I found an airline employee who actually gave a rip about their customers. Business travelers, the airlines' bread and butter, know what I'm talking about. And I haven't even brought up "cattle car" seating, howling kids, idiot tourists and horrible airports (DFW, O'Hare, and Atlanta, to name a few). If I ever, ever choose to fly ANYwhere again, someone please shoot me, as a bullet is more merciful than being subject to commercial air travel.
3. Yep. It's all a conspiracy. If they'd just fly the dang airplanes with bad parts, everybody would make their connections. Maybe. Maybe even alive.
Anybody worrying about a flight because of a mechanical issue on the airplane is an absolute genius.
Then anybody worrying about getting sh*t and incompetent treatment is another genius. The airlines have chopped everybody's wages to sh*t and ya get what ya pay for.
4. Ever do Cathay, the Chinese airline. It seemed the stews had a disdain for the Gringo on my overseas flight. Not enough to complain, but enough to see what blacks go through in our country.
The seats in this asian airline were built for the average asian- five foot five and 130 pounds- for a comfortable ride.
5. Pax @ 3:
And I'll bet my 1st class upgrade that the "chopped" wages are a Bush Chimpanzee/Karl Rove conspiracy........
As for maintenance, I'd prefer the airline perform such with the plane in the hangar, not at the flight line with a full load of passengers.
And there's NO excuse for poor service or rudeness to a paying customer, even if you hate your employer.
6. If you ever fly SAS from Sea-Tac to Europe, you'll wonder how any other airline could possibly stay in business. Terrific service, great food, good legroom and a very clean plane. What's more, the ticket costs the same as if you flew American or Delta. SAS proves airline travel can be a good experience when you fly with a quality company that actually cares about their customers.
7. Late 60s- $700 roundtrip Seattle to New York on standby. Today, SeaTac to Seoul or Hong Kong-$1000.
I can't believe the cheap prices.
8. [Bleep] you, Ditto and Double [Bleep] you? Are you serious? Wow, a person of a thousand words and evidently no knowledge about the industry...even the simplest knowledge. You see, jackass,
America West and US Airways have been merged for over a year.
9. Chewy - my humble apologies for forgetting that two airlines I try to avoid flying at all costs have merged together into one airline I'll definitely avoid flying at all costs. I also forgot Continental too (which I have little or no opinion about), so shoot me.
10. In the 60s, United was the cat's meow for airflight.
11. Spouse travels extensively... in Australia at the moment.
Over the years has TRAVELED over 5 MILLION miles on NORTHWEST AIRLINES alone. Obviously a family favorite.... not sure we'll ever use all the free tickets we've banked, but with all those traveled miles under our belt we have some pretty nice automatic first class perks when we do and free travel is nice with a family of five.
Not thinking, the dear one booked Hawaiian Air for Australia but the passport renewal didn't arrive in time for the flight. What a nightmare dealing with Hawaiian customer service...who is in North Dakota... their helpful suggestion was that dear one should have taken the flight to Honolulu and waited there for the passport to arrive. ... Um... won't be booking Hawaiian again...especially after thunking our heads in realization that NWA flies there.
When we lived east, we were and still are very fond of US Air when NWA wasn't available.
12. Have had good experience with British Airways. Not too fond of Delta (the stewards were either snarling at each other or else having gabfests at the back of the plane instead of assisting passengers). So far Northwest is the only airline that has "misplaced" our baggage, but otherwise OK. United was great years ago and now just charges premium price from mediocre/crappy service. Haven't had problems with US Air yet, but we only do nonstop flights with them. I would put American dead last on my list. And I agree with saltherring--ideally maintenance should be done before loading up the plane.
13. Northwest and United are by far the worst when it comes to making you feel like your business matters. Lost luggage, being lied to by customer service, baggage claim takes 3 times longer than other airlines, cancelled flights - they suck the big one.
14. In 20+ years of flying NWA millions of miles dear ones luggage was lost exactly ONCE... and it was delivered to the house the next day.
15. Now their (NWA) KLM partner...absolutely horrendous: rude entirely up and down the employee line.
16. I like Alaska Air...good prices and service. They were one of the first to go to electronic and web check-in which I absolutely LOVE. I check-in at home before my flight and go to the super fast baggage check line for those with boarding passes, which is even faster than the electronic check-in lines.
Will never fly Southwest again due to some bad experiences with the non-assigned seating. Just don't like it.
17. On my last trip to Europe - United lost my luggage both coming and going. It took 3 days to get it after I arrived in London, and 2 days after I got home.
18. Even the best of them are little more than flying cattle cars, it takes a lot to get me to even consider flying.
19. Even the European carriers haven't figured out international travel. Al Italia lost our luggage. Didn't get it for four days. Learned our lesson with that - take enough clothes for a few days in a carry on.
20. take enough clothes for a few days in a carry on...
LOL... just leave your shampoo at home... God knows you might be a mile-high hair washing threat!
21. The positive comment on SAS reminded me:
The best long flights I ever had were on Quantas, RT to Australia and New Zealand. That was a few years ago, but I've heard good things about them from others since then.
22. I'm no spokesman for the airlines, but my experience has been very different from what I'm seeing on this post. For the past 7 years, I have travelled every Mon AM and Thurs PM, excepting vacation and holiday times. In 20 months of weekly commuting between Seattle and Ft Lauderdale on Delta (through Houston then Atlanta), I got stranded exactly twice, once due to air traffic delays in Atlanta and the other because the Ft L airport had a Fedex plane stuck on the runway. Other than that I've flown mostly Alaska up and down the west coast and Southwest between Tucson and San Diego for 6 months. I've never been stranded by them - never. I've arrived home a little late occasionally, that's it. The only other timnes I got stranded was flying Northwest and got stuck in Minneapolis and flying Delta and got stuck in Salt Lake. With the exception of Northwest, I've always found ticket agents and gate people helpful. Not always warm and fuzzy, but what can you expect of someone trying to handle large groups of less-than-considerate people?
23. Hi! Please consider posting the best Mohammad's cartoon ever. See it here http://samsonblinded.org/blog/a-cartoon-for-a-cartoon.htm
24. Up until last year I usually flew at least 50,000 miles per year and often over 100,000. At one time or another I've been an elite flyer with Continental, United, American, Delta, and Alaska. But since I've switched programs so often, I've flown on the above airlines as a non-elite too.
I think of the mainline carriers Continental is the best followed closely by Alaska. After that, they are about the same. American may be a little bit ahead of the others. Northwest seems to have improved a bit. I am flying Delta for the first time in almost 10 years next week and I'll have better opinion about them. Being a west coast boy, I've never flown US Air unless you count PSA which they swallowed about 20 years ago. It's been awhile since I flew United, but they weren't that bad. I dropped them because it was too hard to get an upgrade even as a 1K elite flyer.
Of international carriers, KLM to Europe is the best. Never been to Asia, so I can't comment.
25. I flew US Airways on transcontinentals whenever I could, not because of service but because one of their hubs, Pittsburgh, is the best in the US. Chicago O'Hare (United, American), Dallas Ft. Worth (United, American), Atlanta & Cincinnati (Delta), Denver (United), Newark, Cleveland (Continental), Detroit & Minneapolis (Northwest) all suck, as does US Airways hub at Philly. Pittsburgh is a medium sized airport with an excellent mall that (by law) allows no price gouging. The airport has sufficient runways so there's seldom a long wait for takeoff or landing. Ever try to get out of Detroit or Chicago after a weather delay? The bad news is that US Airways has discontinued its daily flights from SeaTac to Pittsburgh, leaving Philly (Yeeechh) and Charlotte (OK). What a shame. I'm glad I no longer have to fly across the US once a month. My condolences to those who do.
26. I gave up about $40k a year in salary when I stopped traveling around the time we started a family. Worth every penny.
27. Lately Alaska as a Gold MVP Alaska is not doing that great for me
28. "Not thinking, the dear one booked Hawaiian Air for Australia but the passport renewal didn't arrive in time for the flight. What a nightmare dealing with Hawaiian customer service...who is in North Dakota... their helpful suggestion was that dear one should have taken the flight to Honolulu and waited there for the passport to arrive. ... Um... won't be booking Hawaiian again...especially after thunking our heads in realization that NWA flies there."
I know a lot about HAL, DH being one of the pilots. If you were planning to go to Australia from Seattle, (or anywhere on the mainland) you have to go to HNL first. And you have to layover at least one night because the flights into HNL from the mainland mostly don't get there before the flights to Sydney leave. That being said, they have a wonderful customer service record from most of the people who fly them, and it's not their fault that your passports weren't ordered in time for the planned vacation.
But the airlines are like a lot of other companies, the CEO's are taking a lot of money to try and make ends meet. The pilots and other work groups are asked about every 2 years to take a cut in pay, to work harder in the process and threatened with yet another bankruptcy if they don't. In the meantime, the managers and VIPS reward themselves for it grandly.
If you have a problem with an airline, please go right to the top and suggest that they continue to pay their employees top dollar, that they not outsource departments that formerly were good ones and that they (the VIPS) consider a cut in pay as well.
29. Yes, we know dear one had to travel to Hawaii to get to Sydney... been there, done that, many times.
No it is not a vacation.
No, it is not HAL's fault the passport renewal took 14+ weeks, nor is it their fault that the State Dept said on THURSDAY it would arrive Fed Ex on the following MONDAY in time for the TUESDAY HAL flight, when in fact the FedEx containing the passport did not arrive until WEDNESDAY. My passport, which was not tracked down and expedited for travel finally arrived this past Monday... I sent mine in for renewal a week before dear ones and it arrived a week after dear ones. Had we not called the state department... 4x... dear one would still be waiting.
What is their fault is that the dimwits they have in customer service are
1. not even employees but a third party arbitor;
2. the particular dimwit dear one spoke with didn't know WHO her supervisor was... or if she even had one;
3. barely spoke English;
4. was totally clueless about the widely reported problems people are having getting their passports in a timely manner, nor the fact that the State Dept is actually refunding the $60 fee many of us paid for expedited service because they cannot fulfill their end of the obligation;
5. was totally unble to make a coherant suggestion besides that dear one should have caught the flight to Honolulu and waited for the passport there (see me roll my eyes)...even though the State Dept was Expressing it here... and to recite that it would be a $200 fee EACH leg of the flight to change the reservation.
NOW, dear one did suffer through the mess at the airport and went straight to the ticket counter here at SeaTac, spoke with the ladies there who rolled their eyes at "customer service" and speedily, pleasantly and FEE FREE changed the tickets, because they indeed pay attention to the news and have had many passengers with the very same passport delay problems.
One would think that when a company hires out "customer service" they would be damned sure the people representing them know exactly what service they are in and how to provide it.
30. BTW I am under scrutiny at the Moonbat! blog site. I guess the Big Horses Putoon didn't like me finding that which was previously said by the IDIOTS put out in front of the latest IDIOTS!
31. Like it or not Jimmy Carter began this ugly era in air travel. Alfred Khan deregulated airlines which allowed the likes of Frank Lorenzo(CO),Wolf(UA)et al to take control and pilfer the major carriers in control of our skies. Next time you wait 50 mins. for your checked bag consider this, the CEO of NW forced a strike to abrogate emp. pensions while HE will receive $960,000.00 yr. at age 62. Meantime Abdul passes through security unchecked to service the AC you or your family will travel on.
32. Believe me, the HAL employees know all too well the problems with the "new" customer service. I think they are in the Phillipines. Employees get the royal runaround from that department also.
Which is why I suggested you complain directly to Mark Dunkerly, the CEO.
33. Well as an airline employee since '76 the only people I blame for the shabby airlines are the passengers...
People wanted cheap, they got cheap...
Cheap brought with it, its pal incompetent management beecause an incompetent person is cheaper to employ...
34. juandos at 33: How right you are! When I can get a seat (rare these days) as a "non-rev" and sit next to a passenger who has a positive space seat, who hasn't bothered to bathe in a month and whose full fare ticket (however it was purchased) cost less than my "non-rev" space available one, and who is most likely wearing their pajamas while I must dress according to a dress code, you know the system is just wrong.
People want cheap, and that's what they got. The problem is that in order for the VIP's to continue to get their big bucks, the essential ones, (pilots, flight attendants, mechanics) take it in the shorts, over and over and over again.
35. And another thing - after 6 yrs of tightened security, how hard do you think it would be for infrequent travellers to understand the rules. I don't expect them to 'get it' the way a weekly traveller does, but a little common sense would go a long way. Monday the woman in front of me in the security line had two full beverage bottles, a tub of some liquidy food, etc etc in her carry-on and was suprised when they made her go back and dump it. If we could just make all those people go away ......... air travel would be a breeze :-)
36. #35 snowbird:
It's the curse of the human race to be 50% afflicted with absolute friggen morons. They truly drag down the rest of us in EVERY aspect of life. I wonder why we don't eliminate them.
37. I gave up about $40k a year in salary when I stopped traveling around the time we started a family. Worth every penny.
And you still call yourself a conservative...most people here would call that being lazy.
Taking a pay cut to spend time with your family...looks like the terrorists have already won!
38. It was probably alot more than $40k, when you factor in reimbursements for meals, internet and wireless communication. After doing it for many years, it was an easy choice. My son just made the decision more expedient. Coming home to him every night is worth so much more. Plus, I think I added years to my life in terms of stress reduction from no longer having to fly in and out of here every week.
39. Here's the funny thing, airlines give out all these free miles and upgrades which entice business travelers to book money wasting trips where technology makes communicating miles apart possible.
If businesses would just cut back on travel, they would save shareholders money, make the airlines really happy to see leisure travelers (who apply more scrutiny to their airline choices), and possibly reduce the prices and cattle car pack. Of course market forces will be at play for the last two bennies.
I know coworkers that brag about all the miles they collect as well as the free seat, hotel, and rent a car upgrades. They book trips to see one employee for a 'team building' event. The travel becomes a drug they just can't get enough of.
Would like feedback from the biz travelers that mention all their traveling. Do/did you feel it's a "must have" where you're actually going somewhere to touch and repair something (e.g. technician, dr, etc.)? Or is/was the travel mainly for conferences and meetings where you could use netmeeting or some other technology to communicate and see powerpoint slides?
40. Well Anthony, I think the lack of responses from the well traveled business class pretty much answers your question. It's a perk not too many want to talk openly about. I know folks who "have" to fly to Hawaii on business and they make it sound like it's the most painful thing they have to do.
41. It's been several years since I traveled every week, but for the most part, it was the client that wanted us onsite for projects. They preferred to have us in meetings in person and interacting with their project team members rather than working remote. I preferred working remote, so I would have rather not flown there every week.
There were team meetings and conferences that we traveled to, but that was paid for by our consulting company, not the client. We never had one in Hawaii. Best location was probably San Diego or Vegas.