August 27, 2007
Seattle Times editorial editor admits: "We make stuff up"
Seattle Times editorial editor Jim Vesely responded to my inquiry about yesterday's editorial, asking for either the factual basis of this interpretation of Judge Bridge's ruling, or a retraction:
Much fuss has been made about how the elections director is not accountable to the public and how if the elections director had been directly accountable to the public in the 2004 governor's race, election mistakes would not have been made.
This is by now trumped up hooey, and a judge in a Republican county said as much after a lengthy trial on behalf of Republican Dino Rossi.
Vesely replied:
Of course Bridges never said anything about whether the elections director should be elected or appointed. Joni Balter made that up because it sounded good!
Okay, those weren't his exact words, but it represents
his e-mail more faithfully than his editorial represents Judge Bridge's ruling.
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at August 27, 2007
01:23 PM | Email This
1. Making such statements serves the paper's real purpose of promoting leftists causes.
The disingenuous email response is simply his way of saying he thinks his readers are too stupid to figure that out.
2. I'll have to unrespectfully disagree, there, Mr. Editor. And why did you have to mention 'Republican' county? And that certainly is a slap in the face of the judicial system.
If anything, Bridges went out of his way to cater to the Democrats. And what does that have to do with whether King County should elect or select an elections director?
4. "Trumped up hooey"?
Judge Bridges: "Secondly, I have been asked in closing argument to send a message. I'm going to decline that invitation. This Court is not in a position to fix the deficiencies in the election process that we heard about in this courtroom over the past nine days. However, the voters of this state are in a position to demand of their executive and legislative bodies that remedial measures be instituted immediately. And clearly, the evidence here suggests that the problems require more than just constructing new buildings and hiring more staff.
Mr. Logan in his testimony in court and, more particularly, in his deposition testimony referred to the culture he found when he assumed the responsibilities of the Director of Elections in King County. Almost anyone who works in state or local government knows exactly what this culture is. It's inertia. It's selfishness. It's taking our paycheck but not doing the work. It's not caring about either our fellow workers or the public we are supposed to serve. It's not taking responsibility. It's refusing to be held accountable. And so it is the voters who should send the message."
That is what I-25 is all about. Vesely and Balter missed that part of the ruling.
5. Wow just read about your flame war with a single mom. You must be so proud. Jerk.
6. Wow just read about your flame war with a single mom. You must be so proud. Jerk.
7. Folks on the left make up things all the time. It is part of their "by any means necessary" world view. Lenin would be so proud if these people.
8. Justin at #5 and #6. Classic liberal drivel. "Single mom" automatically equals "victim" in the liberal lexicon. I don't know the whole story Justin, and neither do you but because of your apparent political bent you happily jump to conclusions. Kind of reminds me of how liberals treated the infamous Duke Lacrosse case.
9. Um, she was a single mom. I could of said woman, but that was rather general, and people would know the story of shark and the single mom. It's not a political thing. I just think it was a rather coward move by a bully. No conclusions, read a couple of articals, and made a call. Shark is a dick. That does not make me liberal.
10. Um, she was a single mom. I could of said woman, but that was rather general, and people would know the story of shark and the single mom. It's not a political thing. I just think it was a rather coward move by a bully. No conclusions, read a couple of articals, and made a call. Shark is a dick. That does not make me liberal.
11. Um, she was a single mom. I could of said woman, but that was rather general, and people would know the story of shark and the single mom. It's not a political thing. I just think it was a rather coward move by a bully. No conclusions, read a couple of articals, and made a call. Shark is a dick. That does not make me liberal.
12. Um, she was a single mom. I could of said woman, but that was rather general, and people would know the story of shark and the single mom. It's not a political thing. I just think it was a rather coward move by a bully. No conclusions, read a couple of articals, and made a call. Shark is a dick. That does not make me liberal.
13. Um, she was a single mom. I could of said woman, but that was rather general, and people would know the story of shark and the single mom. It's not a political thing. I just think it was a rather coward move by a bully. No conclusions, read a couple of articals, and made a call. Shark is a dick. That does not make me liberal.
14. Um, she was a single mom. I could of said woman, but that was rather general, and people would know the story of shark and the single mom. It's not a political thing. I just think it was a rather coward move by a bully. No conclusions, read a couple of articals, and made a call. Shark is a dick. That does not make me liberal.
15. Um, she was a single mom. I could of said woman, but that was rather general, and people would know the story of shark and the single mom. It's not a political thing. I just think it was a rather coward move by a bully. No conclusions, read a couple of articals, and made a call. Shark is a dick. That does not make me liberal.
16. Um, she was a single mom. I could of said woman, but that was rather general, and people would know the story of shark and the single mom. It's not a political thing. I just think it was a rather coward move by a bully. No conclusions, read a couple of articals, and made a call. Shark is a dick. That does not make me liberal.
17. Yes, it does. It is by definition the very essence of being liberal. The 'liberal' and its big tent encompasses more than just your political bent, but suffice to say- you are liberal.
18. You are a liberal justin. Anyone who makes 8 repeated posts and calls someone a "dick" without referring to one single relevant fact is a liberal, or a progressive or whatever name you confused lefties choose to call yourselves this week. Conservatives don't act that way. It's not exactly hard to pick you guys out.
19. Frankly, Vesely lied. Flat-out. He goes for the editorial writers' cop-out that he was only expressing an "opinion," but that too is a lie: he was saying what Bridges said. It is not an opinion what Bridges said, either he said it, or he did not.
If there was some way to rationally interpret what Bridges said as such, then fine. But there isn't. Indeed, if anything, he implied the contrary, that an employee is more likely to be a part of the negative culture, as SouthernRoots noted.
And that Vesely won't concede his error makes me think his lie is evidence that he is a liar.
20. Whatever you need to call me sharky is still a bully, and yes a dick.
21. It all depends on what the meaning of "this" is.
When the Seattle Times editors said, "This is by now trumped up hooey," they were apparently referring to the suggestion by the proponents of the initiative that voters would correct the problem by holding elected offficials accountable -- starting with an elected director of elections, once such an office exists in King County.
Note how the Times followed the "hooey" comment with this: "The elections director currently is accountable to the county executive. Challenger David Irons tried to pin the foibles of the election on Ron Sims in the 2005 campaign for county executive. Voters didn't buy it."
You don't expect the Times to recall that the judge said it was up to the voters to correct the problem, did you? [Thanks, SouthernRoots, for finding that excerpt of the judge's statement for us.]
The best they can do is remember that no one has been held accountable by the voters so far. And, it is apparently the opinion of the Times editors that no one ever will be held accountable. (I wonder if their opinion assumes the outcome of elections will always favor the party in control of counting the ballots.)
22. Vessey is a damn liar.
23. "I just think it was a rather coward move by a bully."
The bully was the "single mom" (whose son makes threats to blow up schools by the way) picking on a 5 year old.
24. When people can't point to what someone did that is actually wrong, they resort to merely characterizing it, instead. Words like "bully" are good for this sort of dishonesty. Democrats also like to throw words around like "imperial" and "dictator" to achieve a similar effect.
25. Vesely lied, and subscriptions died.
26. Isn't if fun, pudge? Lefties like "justin" (who has the very interesting and probably made up e-mail of "bombthreat23"), never get that we are on to them. It's amazing how touchy they get about being labeled as liberals. How come we aren't equally as offended when we are called conservatives? Might be because we see no reason to disguise what we believe in.
27. Did nothing wrong? Really? You believe that, or can only follow what someone else tells you. Call me what every you need, I know that makes it easier for you. Shark is still a bully, and still a dick for doing this.
the emails real, try it. Maybe even do a google search and find out what it means.
28. justin....get your butt down to the bus stop or you'll be late to fling poo at the Secret Service!!
29. I tend to believe Justin, his intimate knowledge of dick is appreciated by those in the know on Capital Hill.
30. Editors gotta protect their pimp writers.
31. Really? a fag joke? that is the best you could muster? Wow. I mean..just...WOW.
32. Well, well, a new David Matthews wannabe surfaces.
Facts and reality are so inconvenient for the terminally left......
Time for your daily enema.....
33. SouthernRoots got it right. Doesn't the Times ever actually do any RESEARCH? Have they forgotten already? I am still fuming mad about the 04 election. King County corruption reversed the will of the people. What is this a Banana Republic? My son who had recently moved to Queen Anne Hill had to vote using a Provisional Ballot, (that is one of their intended uses) After the election he got a call asking to confirm that he had voted for Dino Rossi. When he said yes....the person on the other end of the call said "thank you" and hung up. Later we checked and found that his LEGAL vote was not counted. Just the admitted rigged votes from the ACORN group alone should have invalidated the results. We have an illegal trespassor in the Gov. mansion. And then Roberto Gonzales gets flack for firing Mckay? McKay DID NOT do his job. Has everyone gone mad? No one went to jail!!!
34. Your term Justin and your characterization, now go cry to someone who gives a damn what you think.
35. Justin's not nearly as interesting as he thinks he is.
36. Justin - what does being a single mom have to do with this issue? If someone spits on or kicks my kid, am I supposed to say, "Excuse me, what is your marital status? What is your income?" I was a single mom and that didn't give me a license to make up malicious lies about my employer's customers. I know it's a juicier story if you spin it as Big Bad Republican hits poor single mom, but how about Mom protects her kid from a vicious liar and incompetent employee? Can you even try to give the appearance of being fair or understanding that there are two sides to this story? If you can't, then you are the Jerk.
37. Irene you have been treated to an entry level course entitled "Liberalism 101". The course syllabus reads as follows: 1. Liberals don't care about the truth. 2.Liberals will lie without any evident guilt if they feel it will advance their political agenda. 3. Liberals will never admit that they are liberals. 4.Liberals support killing unborn children. 5. Liberals are not the nice caring people they want you to believe they are. 6. Liberalism attracts the kind of people that get their jollies telling everyone else how to live.
38. ..and they wonder why I don't subscribe to the Times.
39. Irene, stop trying to rationalize you and your kept man's brave crusade against this MIGHTY, ALL-POWERFUL financially strapped waitress. Your bratty crotchfruit, who no doubt will grow up to be as amoral and self-absorbed as you and your husband clearly are, was not traumatized in the least by this woman's secondhand online rant and never would have been, and you know it; you just got mad because the Internet saw you two for what you really are.
40. Crotchfruit! That is my new fav word.
No one was pickin on anyones kid. The statements were made that two awful parents let their rug rat run loose and then left a fer shit tip. This was a malicious attack, and just rude. Really really, rude. I don't care if you are a republican or a dem. That behavior is still just mean spirited. So have a nice life, I know you think you are better for all of this.
41. Whetther it is on the Editorial page or the news page, anything printed in that rag is quite likely to be made up or an uninformed opinion.
42. Anonymous poster "ihm" at #39 posts, "Your bratty crotchfruit".
The political left evidently has no standards. This is as sick as it gets.
Can you "progressives" possibly stoop any lower?
43. Vesley is an affable old man who jumped the shark back in the 80's. Don't be too hard on him--he just does what he's told.
44. comment 1: (famous scene of finger waving politician into TV:) "...I-did-not-have-untruths-with-that-editorial-board!..."
comment 2: "make things up" editorially?--maybe; but tanking circulation numbers of local papers like the Times tell the real truth; oh yea sure--it's the ad revenues, right?! (insert buzzer sound)
45. "It's inertia. It's selfishness. It's taking our paycheck but not doing the work. It's not caring about either our fellow workers or the public we are supposed to serve. It's not taking responsibility. It's refusing to be held accountable. And so it is the voters who should send the message."
That is what the MSM (Times & P-I included). They will do it as long as they can get away with it. The bar of integrity cannot go any lower. That is why we all need to take what they say with a grain of salt.
From all of this, it is time to move on after the 2004 election, but hopefully learn and apply what has been learned in 2008 and future elections. If we could do something about it - that would be different, but unless there is a recourse that I don't know about, chalk this up to consider the source (Vesley) and SOS (same old s**t).
46. it should read...That is what the MSM (Times & P-I included) typically does.
47. I'm with Stefan on this one. There is trumped-up hooey re the 2004 election, and it's Stefan's claims that there was fraud (i.e., deliberate errors favoring one side or the other). And that's been part of the sales pitch for I-25. But at other times I-25 has been pitched as combating incompetence, and Bridges supported that in his ruling, the opposite of what the editorial said.
48. First of all...Who is John Galt?
Second...Justin is clueless!
49. You think crotchfruit is bad, how bout womb maggot, snatch spawn, or sperm trophy. Fuck, they're just kids, not dieties. Shark had no problem digging up dirt on her kid. Why I bet sharks little angle once shit his own diaper. Wait till we find the evidence for that!
50. Justin, your filthy language is hurting my eyes but would make a good fit over at HA. I do hope you're contributing to the comments over there with others who have the same vocabulary. They are many.
51. Justin blurts...
Shark had no problem digging up dirt on her kid
Urr... Justin, he just quoted her own words, not Stefan's words. You are as credible as... well ... nobody. Duh!
52. Oddly enough, justin, I'm fairly certain there's treatment for your dick obsession. Seriously. And when I looked up the definition for the allegorical use of the word "dick," oddly enough, it was YOUR name that fit the definition! It just said "justin!" Imagine that!
That said, holding editors accountable for their words is always a good thing. Clearly, Vesely screwed the pooch with his self-professed exaggeration.
53. Hinton, that is about as mature as the rubber/glue reply. Why don't you try eating the corn out of my shit and give it another shot.
54. THIS IS A COMPLETE ASIDE; HOWEVER, I felt I MUST say something.
I have had the benefit of reading some ridiculous tripe in my life; but, nothing was more ridiculous than reading about the energy you and your family spent obliterating a WAITRESS because you didn't LIKE what she had to say about your behavior.
http://blatherwatch.blogs.com/talk_radio/2007/08/stefan-sharkans.html
I would think that someone in politics would allow for FREEDOM OF SPEECH and live with the fact that it is all together possible that you were, in fact, NOT the best customers in the world THAT DAY.
Shit happens.
Instead, you set out to utterly DESTROY the lives of a family because you felt your character and that of your family was "misrepresented"?
What an utter abuse of power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. All you managed to do was alert the WORLD to your behavior.
In the scope of things, how did it REALLY MATTER that you managed to offend a single-mother waitress in a Pizzeria? Did it make you feel better setting about to destroy her? Do you feel like a better person for having done that now?
My God man, we've all been customers somewhere where we might have been perceived as having been less than "well behaved".
Many, many, many people will write about/blog about things in their lives that aren't agreeable to the subjects of their blogs; however, that does not give you the RIGHT to bully someone into apologizing for their perspective or thoughts on an event BY DESTROYING THEIR LIVELIHOOD.
No one died and made you God of "good behavior" and if you look DEEP DOWN INSIDE, you would probably have to concede that perhaps, that day, you were NOT the best customers on the planet.
AT THIS POINT, you owe HER AN APOLOGY. She didn't DESTROY your life.
55. Justin your mom called, she wants her egg back.
56. "I would think that someone in politics would allow for FREEDOM OF SPEECH and live with the fact that it is all together possible that you were, in fact, NOT the best customers in the world THAT DAY."
Wow. How far off in moonbat land does one need to be to start reasoning like this? Yeah, JEN. I wake up every morning wondering how I can be the BEST CUSTOMER I can be. Because after all, it is all about the waitress isn't it?
Oh and never mind the FACT the waitress ADMITTED she made the whole thing up. Liberals never let little things like facts get in the way.
57. JEN, when you publicly call a parent a child beater without a shred of proof, you deserve everything that's coming to you. Or did you not know that's what that waitress wrote? Probably not, because you've only read one side of the story.
58. Apparently all this blog has room for is bashing liberals, as you seem to use this word quite liberally hahaha.
Anyway, back to the article they said it was an editorial. If you don't know what that is, please go find a dictionary and look it up, judging by the rest of your blog you'll be amazed at what the definition is.
59. chris: calling something an editorial is not license to state something as fact that, in fact, is false. He said, "Much fuss has been made about how the elections director is not accountable to the public and how if the elections director had been directly accountable to the public in the 2004 governor's race, election mistakes would not have been made.
"[A] judge ... said" that the idea that "the elections director had been directly accountable to the public in the 2004 governor's race, election mistakes would not have been made" was "trumped-up hooey" "after a lengthy trial on behalf of Republican Dino Rossi."
That is not an expression of an opinion, it is a statement of fact. And it is false. It's a lie, and a cop-out, to say that misrepresentation is acceptable because it is an opinion piece. Even opinion pieces should not misrepresent facts.
60. Jim Vesely's response to your very legitimate question is disappointing, and more than a little arrogant. I had a higher regard for him than that.