Obama made fun of Palin's job as mayor a few days ago, cracking that he has more people on his campaign staff than she had in her town as mayor. And now he is feigning offense about her cracks about him being a community organizer (which, contrary to the lies of the left, were not attacks on community organizers, any more than Obama was attacking majors of small towns).
Then he says it's not a big deal, after spending several minutes complaining about. Riiiight.
If Obama can't handle this, how could he handle it when a foreign dictator comes into his backyard and calls him a devil?
And then he complained, as Biden did, that the Republicans presented "not one idea" in their two nights of convention, again adding it's not a big deal, they can do what they want with their convention time.
I think along with being the most inexperienced Presidential candidate in 68 years, in terms of experience in state executive, federal executive, or federal legislative office, he may also be the most passive-aggressive.
Cross-posted on <pudge/*>.
Posted by pudge at September 04, 2008 01:28 PM | Email ThisI still don't know a thing about any of the significant legislation he was supposedly responsible for. The ones he first started telling turns out to be fabrications and embellishments. Legend in his own mind type of thing.
How come we haven't heard about any polls during the convention like we did with the Dems?
Conventions are for 'red meat', Obama. They are meant to energize the party. Yours fell kind of flat, but you don't have Fred, Mitt, Huck and most of all Rudy, sitting in the wings.
Don't anyone tell Obama he isn't running against Sarah.
Posted by: swatter on September 4, 2008 01:44 PMExpect to see McCain present his ideas tonight to the country. Hopefully, he takes a few more jabs at Obama while he's at it. If his speech is anywhere near as good as Palin's, he'll get a good boost in the polls.
Posted by: Palouse on September 4, 2008 02:13 PMThe thin skinned Obama we can expect to see from here on out is the Obama that was never properly vetted by the press. He's been given the red carpet treatment by mostly everyone that can't see through his snake oil salespitch. He speaks to change but came out of the notorious Chicago political machine that embodies the word "Corruption". Did he change Chicago politics in anyway? No. He went along to get along and he's done a very smooth job of it. The problem with that kind of rung climbing is the land mines you leave behind that you used as assets to get there, but come back to haunt you when you finally reach for the golden ring.
Posted by: Rick D. on September 4, 2008 02:16 PMLet's start out with the source of your info, since you hit me so hard the other day. Where's the link, buddy?
OBTW, Obama does have more staff on his campaign, which has well-managed for 18 months. McCain almost blew his chances last year in his management of his campaign. Obama also manages a Senate office staff. I don't have the number, but I do plan to look it up. The bottom line, however, is when you compare their most recent managerial experience Obama's running of his campaign has been head and shoulders over McCain.
As far as the community organizer bit, yeah, its red meat for the party faithful, and that is all it is. It seems to me that on Monday, the Republicans weren't jeering community organizing, but instead doing some of it themselves. Does this mean they are jeering themselves.
Let me ask you this, can you manage a large scale community project? Could your darling Sarah Palin? You want evidence. Look up the results Obama achieved in his Project Vote work. Not only did it bring in thousands of new voters, it also helped Carol Mosely Brown get elected, and most likely swung Illinois to Clinton, which I believe a swing the other way wouldn't have gotten Clinton elected. His work on the behalf of steel workers out of work should be commended and not derided by the Repulicans. Would you rather have them stay out of work on welfare and unemployment, or find new wage-earning jobs that contribute to society?
Finally, the biggest factor of why Republicans don't get the community organizing bit is they don't get how change happens. You, Swatter, Palin, McCain, and the Republicans all are operating from a Hillary-like mindset that change happens from the top down. Change happens from the bottom up. Until the masses rise up, it doesn't matter what words leaders will speak. Obama has demonstrated this principle in this election. Against all odds and a far more formitable candidate than John McCain and Sarah Palin, he started at the bottom and worked his way up. He wasn't given much of a chance at the start mainly because Hillary had all the money sources secured. Well, two million, let me repeat, two million contributors later, grass-roots organizations in all 50 states, an on-line network that allows for fast, flexible, and grass-roots action later, Obama has demonstrated a new approach to politics that starts from the bottom up.
John McCain, well he is recycling the same old playbook of partisan attacks, and making the election not about addressing the issues that need to be addressed but about whose more Patriotic and denigrating the hundreds and thousands of volunteers who throughout the country work thousands, if not millions, of hours making our communities better, without government involvement. In allowing his convention to degrade into bashing of community organizers, he has put down the whole country of volunteers who work endlessly to make their communities better place. Oh yah, you will say that McCain himself didn't say this, well the buck stops with him. It is his nomination and convention, if he can't even manage the story line, how is he supposed to manage the nation?
Posted by: tc on September 4, 2008 02:21 PMWhat a shining example of accomplishment.
As to his managing a campaign, get involved with a large one and tell me if the candidate really runs it. There's campaign managers, (plural buddy) communications directors and media spokespersons etc,etc. The person campaigning usually spend their time with their speech, learning tidbits about the next city or something about the 57 states they're visiting.
A far cry from making tough decisions and facing adversaries like Sean Hannity, which he CAN'T seem to do.
Also your little comment about change happening from bottom up as opposed to top down...cut it out. You're making us laugh so hard we think we paid admission to a comedy show.
Dims are the perfect example of taxation, regulation, strangulation of American spirit.
His "experience" running his campaign? Well, considering he's TIED with McCain, then at best he's got no more "experience" than McCain and Palin.
Obama's Senate staff size? 64, about the size of Palin's city staff in Wasilla and a LOT smaller than the size of State employment in Alaska.
Face it, he's got zilch in terms of executive experience. Being one of 27 directors for a small-time NPO with just 11 staff doesn't cut it.
And the biggest problem with Obama? Not only lack of experience, but NO consistency in his positions. Just take his ever-shifting "always consistently held" position on Iraq.
Heck, how about the latest statement from the man:
“It is unacceptable for Iran to possess a nuclear weapon, it would be a game changer,” Obama said. “It’s sufficient to say I would not take military action off the table and that I will never hesitate to use our military force in order to protect the homeland and the United States’ interests.” - Barack "change my mind daily but I never change my position" Obama
The same man who last year called the surge a failure and refused to even allow that it COULD work.
The simple fact that Obama has to run AGAINST the Vice Presidential candidate shows his absolute lack of depth. He can't even address John McCain, rather he has to talk about the bottom of the ticket. Why? Because he's completely overshadowed by the integrity, experience, and consistency of John McCain.
Go ahead and tout Obama's "community organizer" background. His ties to ACORN. His lack of actual real experience with a "buck stops here" position. He's not even an empty suit - an empty running jacket is a better analogy.
So how about showing something tangible beyond "community organizer". There's a few THOUSAND of those in Washington State alone. How about something more than having a Senate staff - which every single Senator, and every single Representative, and - SURPRISE - every single GOVERNOR has. Nothing standout about that.
What issue has he championed other than murdering babies?
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 4, 2008 02:36 PMNot at all. It's Obama that is digging down to get votes.
Let's start out with the source of your info, since you hit me so hard the other day. Where's the link, buddy?
As to the dig at her being mayor of Wasilla, it's all over, including here.
As to what he said today, I have no link: I should have mentioned, I heard him saying it live on MSNBC. Not online, though I am sure it will be at some point.
OBTW, Obama does have more staff on his campaign ...
I don't care. The point is he was, obviously, saying something negative about Palin's experience as a mayor of a small town, in the context of a run for VP.
And Palin did the exact same about Obama's experience as a community organizer, in the context of a run for President.
She can handle it, and he can't.
Let me ask you this, can you manage a large scale community project?
Again, this is not about who can or can't manage what, this is about rhetoric: Obama's own rhetoric was used against him, and he can't handle it. And I don't know why you're bringing me into it. I wouldn't want a position of managing people. Who cares whether I could/couldn't/have/haven't done it? I know I don't care, why do you?
Finally, the biggest factor of why Republicans don't get the community organizing bit ...
False premise. They get it quite well. You have no evidence to the contrary.
You, Swatter, Palin, McCain, and the Republicans all are operating from a Hillary-like mindset that change happens from the top down.
Yes, that is why I do everything myself as chair of the 39th GOP instead of trying to organize grassroots volunteers. Oh wait, I spend much of my time organizing grassroots volunteers! Huh!
Obama has demonstrated a new approach to politics that starts from the bottom up.
No, he has not. This is an extremely OLD approach to politics.
John McCain, well he is recycling the same old playbook of partisan attacks
He has done no type of attacks Obama hasn't done. Obama, in fact, has done far MORE of those kinds of attacks this year.
and making the election not about addressing the issues that need to be addressed but about whose more Patriotic
Nope, McCain has not spent more time on patriotism, nor less time on issues, than Obama. You are completely full of it, tc.
and denigrating the hundreds and thousands of volunteers who throughout the country work thousands, if not millions, of hours making our communities better, without government involvement
You're a liar. There was no such denigration. I completely defy you to show it.
In allowing his convention to degrade into bashing of community organizers, he has put down the whole country of volunteers who work endlessly to make their communities better place. Oh yah, you will say that McCain himself didn't say this, well the buck stops with him. It is his nomination and convention, if he can't even manage the story line, how is he supposed to manage the nation?
No, I completely defy you to show that ANYONE AT ALL in the convention program attacked denigrated community organizers.
It never happened. You're lying.
I still don't know what a community organizer does.
Simple. Ask Darcy Burner. Apparently she's a community organizer or leader or agitator or something like that...
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 4, 2008 02:41 PMI can't wait until Obama finally has to face BILL O'REILLY one on one in an unscripted environment TONIGHT!
I hope O'Reilly has the guts to announce what, if any, pre-conditions there were for the interview. Specifically, I want to know if the Fluff and Stuff campaign demanded the questions ahead of time.
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on September 4, 2008 02:53 PMHaha, I notice Plain hasn't even faced the press yet. What's wrong, the GOP scared of letting the Palin bubble burst?
Speaking of facing adversaries when was the last time McCain went on Air America? (A: Never, so much for Straight Talk Express)
Something smells fishy in the GOP camp, they now have your own celebrity candidate...yet she can't seem to take even the slightest level of scrutiny without crying foul...sounds to me like the GOP has got something to hide.
The fact is you cannot show me where she mocked community organizing. "You know she did it" is a copout by the scared and the weak.
Posted by: pudge on September 4, 2008 02:59 PMNow, if she has not given interviews a week from now, then you can talk. Until then, don't make yourself look so dumb.
And, of course, you are just lying that she cannot take scrutiny. She has not in the slightest way bristled at any criticism so far, except for condemning lies about her family.
See, I actually showed Obama can't take a simple jab (worse, a carbon copy of a jab he made first). You actually haven't any evidence that she can't. You're lying.
As to Air America: is that still on the air? Seriously?
Posted by: pudge on September 4, 2008 03:03 PMOh good grief.
She hasn't even been on the trail a WEEK!
Celebrity candidate?
Oh good grief.
Most NORMAL hard-working Americans not interested in politics 24/7 heard of her before last week. AND, you sanctrimonious twit, having nothing liberals and a snob press pile on your 17 yr old daughter does not a celebrity make.
It does however, endear her family to the rest of America that NOW knows her, against such blatant asses.
I would imagine any thinking candidate would want to use his time well. Why would they waste it on the 16 listeners of 'Air America'?
Puhlease! That's like excoriating her for not dropping in on the Tuesday Drunks Liberal fest!
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on September 4, 2008 03:05 PMUmmm yeah, what issues is McCain running on? Seems all his ad's are spent trashing Obama rather than displaying his own policy positions. Every time he's asked to clarify something by the Media it's 'how dare you criticize a war hero'.
GOP is running on empty, they need to trash Obama cause the economy is in a recession and people vote with their wallets. John McCain admitted to the WSJ that he's "not so good with economics" which seems to me a glaring problem.
I think that the telling points are that when Biden was announced as Veep, the GOP laughed. When McCain announced Palin, the Demorats went immediately on the attack, not even stopping short of trying to humiliate a 17 year-old girl.
But liberals are always better at beating up soft targets. Letterman being a pretty good example last night. Shameful.
Sarahcudda is on the hunt. Be afraid Demorats . . . be very afraid.
If you are going to lie about Palin being unwilling to take questions before the press, then why should I care what you have to say?
Cato:
Ummm yeah, what issues is McCain running on?
Smaller government, lower taxes, more energy production, better protection of the homeland, better prosecution of the war in Iraq and on "terror," etc.
Seems all his ad's are spent trashing Obama rather than displaying his own policy positions.
First, ads are not everything. Duh. Second, no, he has many ads about his policies.
Every time he's asked to clarify something by the Media it's 'how dare you criticize a war hero'.
You're lying.
The Left is very strange.
Nice try. Utterly useless, but hey you tried. {/sarcasm}
Dude, Where's My Recession?
August 28, 2008
So how terribly inconvenient is it that the Commerce Department reported today that the economy grew at a revised 3.3 percent in the second quarter.Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on September 4, 2008 03:16 PM
McCain's positions? I mean it's not like you can't find a list somewhere. There's this thing called the "Internet", maybe you've heard of it?
And the economy in a recession? You're not just a blatant liar, you're a certifiable idiot. And I use the term sincerely and accurately. I defy you to find the word recession ANYWHERE on that page you linked. It doesn't exist! Idiot in the extreme! This is too funny...
Cato, you're the perfect example of the Slavery Party. All huff and puff, no substance. You even need to make up facts and statements which are DISPROVEN BY YOUR OWN REFERENCES to even bring up a discarded, tired talking point.
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 4, 2008 03:17 PMOnly one has taken an oath of office with a solemn vow to uphold the laws and the constitution.
It is the difference between a sheriff and a boy scout, between a surgeon and guy with a first aid kit, between the US Army and UN peacekeepers.
I understand this, I suspect readers of this blog understand this, and I am beginning to believe that many many Americans now understand this.
This is why the attacks on Palin may now rise to levels we have not yet seen. She is a deadly threat to the left.
I don't think these attacks will succeed? Would you taunt a momma grizzly?!
Just imagine how he would react if the left turned on him ala Bush, with all the references to "domestic terrorist", "terrorist in chief," or the BFEE?
Most references I've seen about the real Messiah center on the things that he's done on our behalf, not his immaculate nomination.
Posted by: scott158 on September 4, 2008 03:23 PMAs for understanding of economics, I wonder if Obama could explain the Laffer curve in detail without a scripted response. Probably not, because his tax plan completely ignores it.
Posted by: Palouse on September 4, 2008 03:24 PMSuck it up "all fiction supports..."
Posted by: PC on September 4, 2008 03:24 PMAnd of course the Obamassiah still does not agree the surge was the right thing.
And I love this quote from the "oh so eloquent" Obama:
"I've always reserved the right, uh, to say---let's say that ethnic, uh, ethnic fighting broke out once again---I've reserved the right to say---I don't--I'm not going to stand idly by if genocide is occurring. I'm not going to stand idly by if vital United States interests are at stake. Um, so in that sense yes, I retain the flexibility anyone who in the job of commander in chief is constantly reassessing facts, risks, and so forth." - Barack Obama
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 4, 2008 03:28 PMobfusCATOr is nervously looking around to see if there's another piece of spaghetti that might stick to the wall!
Should we mention that McCain/Palin have already gotten a convention bounce... BEFORE the convention is over?
Should we mention Fluff and Stuffs vanishing money advantage?
nah, I'm not sure of his health insurance status... I would hate to cause taxpayers be forced to fund his stroke recuperation!
Straight-shooters, Saracudda's and Moose, oh my!
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on September 4, 2008 03:29 PMI know how to use 'The Google' unlike certain GOP candidates. We're talking about middle America here who only sees ad's and conventions. The McCain ad's just trash Obama all the time...hardly a word about the candidate himself. Seems to me the GOP had their chance for the last 12 years and they blew it. It seems most people are much worse off economically than they were eight years ago. Time to go back to what worked. =)
Cato, you're the perfect example of the Slavery Party.
And McCain/Palin is the perfect ticket for the Hypocrisy Party. What better than a tired old RINO white guy (with the nickname 'Sen. Flipper' because he changes his positions so much) and an inexperienced tax raiser who rallies against Washington insiders while sharing the ticket with the ultimate Washington insider.
Seriously, you guys crack me up with this stuff. How can you even look at yourself in the mirror without thinking..."OMG, where did we go wrong".
Wait for it...
obfusCATOr is nervously looking around to see if there's another piece of spaghetti that might stick to the wall!
LMAO!
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on September 4, 2008 03:34 PMI slightly disagree. But traditional measurements, it is not a recession. However, economies are complex, and you could have significant contraction in many parts of the economy that constitute recession even with an increase in GDP.
That said, I don't think we're in a recession, or have been in one, and no major economic organization has said otherwise, including NBER.
Hmmm, if that doesn't say recession I don't know what does.
Commerce Department reported today that the economy grew at a revised 3.3 percent in the second quarter.
Yeah, notice how the stock market tanked today on the slowing economy and massive surge in jobless numbers.
Here's a quote for you:
According to the Fed's "beige book," released yesterday, business conditions were "weak," "soft," or "subdued" across most of the country.
Get with reality Ragnar, you can only live in denial for so long.
Posted by: Cato on September 4, 2008 03:40 PMThat is one of the first ads I remember seeing from McCain. I could provide more, of course, but you said there were none, so I only need one to show you're wrong.
Why should he go on a disreputable station that steals money from childrens charities and was founded by a money launderer?
Posted by: pbj on September 4, 2008 03:43 PM"OMG, where did we go wrong".
Get used to that phrase. You and the Democrats will be saying it come November 5th.
Posted by: Palouse on September 4, 2008 03:43 PMThose are the most true words you've ever spoken here.
Got one put out in the last two months or so that doesn't mention Obama in it? Maybe one that has actual items that McCain wants to implement? Doubt it.
You and the Democrats will be saying it come November 5th.
Haha, not with Ol' Sen. Flip Flop heading the ticket. Notice all the empty seats around the stadium last night? =P
Got one put out in the last two months or so that doesn't mention Obama in it? Maybe one that has actual items that McCain wants to implement? Doubt it.
Probably, but I already proved you wrong. I am uninterested in your goalpost-shifting.
Could it be that one of Obama's mentors was a PINKO and a PEDOPHILE?
Then Cato making sure that everyone knows he's either the typically delusional liberal or a pathological liar (I repeat myself) whines the following: "GOP is running on empty, they need to trash Obama cause the economy is in a recession and people vote with their wallets"...
Get ready for a dose of Bush Derangement Syndrome from cato...
Bush Has a Good Economic Record...
BTW if Obama is good at running a campaign then why does it seem they are running out of money?
Um. Let us review what you wrote.
... if Palin won't take questions before the Press - how could she handle a dictator?
The obvious construction of your question is that she won't do it not just in the last week because she's busy, but that she actually has some fundamental problem taking questions from the press.
And that's an obvious lie, first because she has MANY times taken questions from the national press before, and second because you have no counterevidence. Being busy is not evidence that she won't take questions, only that she hasn't.
So, you're lying.
U.S. output has expanded faster than in most advanced economies since 2000. The IMF reports that real U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) grew at an average annual rate of 2.2% over the period 2001-2008 (including its forecast for the current year). President Bush will leave to his successor an economy 19% larger than the one he inherited from President Clinton. This U.S. expansion compares with 14% by France, 13% by Japan and just 8% by Italy and Germany over the same period.
The U.S. unemployment rate averaged 4.7% from 2001-2007. This compares with a 5.2% average rate during President Clinton's term of office, and is well below the euro zone average of 8.3% since 2000.
The evidence shows that much of the Democratic Party's criticism of President Bush's economic record is wide of the mark. True, the economic slowdown now affecting most advanced countries will likely result in rising unemployment over the coming months. But thanks to sensible policies pursued by the Bush administration (not always with adequate support from a Democratic-controlled Congress), the U.S. economy is sufficiently flexible to keep unemployment below the 7.7% peak reached in the last postrecession year of 1992.
The main risk is that, if elected, Barack Obama will pursue a "social justice" strategy. This would encompass higher taxes on entrepreneurs, savers and investors, more direct government intervention in the economy, and protectionist policies (including revoking existing trade agreements) aimed at safeguarding the jobs of his union backers in "old" industries and public services. If so, the pain is likely to be more widespread and prolonged.
Hmmm, since she was nominated last night don't you think (a hard concept for you I'm sure) that the fact that she's given two speeches is more than enough?
Palin does have responsibilities after all...
I'm wondering if the libtards are starting to feel buyer's remorse...
Posted by: juandos on September 4, 2008 04:03 PMYou still trying to make that stick? Won't work. Not with Obama already flipping on the surge, off shore drilling, public financing, etc, etc, etc.
Posted by: Palouse on September 4, 2008 04:10 PMsame subject, stating that Barack didn't have a piece of legislation to his name. This is out-and-out, bald faced lie.
Of course, Pudge won't call her on it, yet he would be jumping all over it if Obama had made the statement.
Well, let's take a look at Barack's Illinois State Senate experience.
Years in State Senate: 8
90th GA - Bills Obama Sponsor/Co-Sponsor
Total bills sponsor/co-sponsor:
House bills = 46 (18 signed into law -- last col)
Senate bills = 63 (16 signed into law)
Senate bills (Obama Prime sponsor - name first) = 31 (3 signed into law)
91st General Assembly
Total bills sponsored/cosponsored:
House bills = 52 (19 signed into law)
Senate bills = 107 (24 signed into law)
Senate bills (Obama lead) = 36 (3 signed into law)
93rd General Assembly
Total bills sponsored/cosponsored:
House bills = 83 (39 signed into law)
Senate bills = 100 (33 signed into law)
Senate bills (Obama Lead) = 45 (2 signed into law)
93rd General Assembly (Obama's listing is on pages 368-380)
House bills = 80 (51 signed into law)
House Bills (Chief, Alt Chief, or Co-Sponsor) = 68 (45 signed into law)
Senate bills = 242 (198 signed into law)
Senate Bills (Chief, or Chief Co-Sponsor) = 198 (74 signed into law)
Note: I didn't go into the HB's for Obama's first three sessions to determine if he was an Chief, Alt Chief Co-Sponsor
on the House bills.
Final totals for Bills with Obama's name on the bill:
House Bills: 261 (127 passed into law)
Senate Bills: 512 (271 passed into law)
Senate Bills where Obama was Chief or Chief Co-sponsor: 310 (82 signed into law)
I haven't had a chance to do the same totals for Obama's four years in the Senate.
One side note: One can see by the numbers that Seniority plays greatly in who is lead on bills. By Obama's fourth
session, one can see where seniority allows him to be prime on a lot more legislation.
Now what was Palin saying that there was no legislation to Obama's name. The above is just his record in Illinois,
which is, I believe, top five in population for the Country.
Posted by: tc on September 4, 2008 04:21 PMAs an aside here, me thinks the duo of Obama/Biden ought to be changed to mirror their "experiences". They ought to be known as Done Nothing/Nothing Done.
Posted by: barrackslawyer on September 4, 2008 04:26 PMYou're lying. AGAIN.
Here is what she ACTUALLY said: "... this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or even a reform, not even in the state senate."
So tc, you'd have to show that any of those bills were a. major and b. *written by* Obama.
I know how to use 'The Google' unlike certain GOP candidates. We're talking about middle America here who only sees ad's and conventions
I see. In addition to clinging to their religion and their guns, middle America is too slack-jawed to actually research positions. Well thanks for that further stereotyping!
The McCain ad's just trash Obama all the time
Because he's worth trashing. So tell me what wonderful policy Obama's ads put forth? Other than hope and change and hope for change and change to get hope?
Seems to me the GOP had their chance for the last 12 years and they blew it
Hmmm... Twelve years ago President Clinton was in the White House. In 2001 the Senate was tied. And since 2006 the Slavery Party has controlled the House and Senate. That means 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005. Four out of 12. So the last "12 years of failures" are 2/3rds the responsibility of the Slavers!
What has Obama done in the last two years to change things? What bill has he introduced? What bill has he sponsored or even co-sponsored (other than the "clean up the Senate" where he was one of 49 co-sponsors)?
It seems most people are much worse off economically than they were eight years ago.
By every independent measure - employment, personal income, personal wealth, available disposable income - people are better in ALL economic classifications, bottom to top. It's only in the talking points of the Slavers that the economy is worse. Because that's their mantra - Republicans bad, slavers good.
Time to go back to what worked
It's what you marxist, fascist Slavers are doing!
What better than a tired old RINO white guy
Great - so you can NO LONGER tie McCain to President Bush, since obviously you don't think McCain is conservative or a "real Republican". So he really is a maverick and reaches across the aisle.
an inexperienced tax raiser who rallies against Washington insiders while sharing the ticket with the ultimate Washington insider
I'm sorry, did you just describe Obama, who's supposed to bring a new approach and change to Washington, picking the second longest serving Senator to be his VP?
And he continued to drool out in post 35:
Hmmm, if that doesn't say recession I don't know what does.
It's pretty clear you don't know. Historically it's two or more consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth. Considering we still haven't had ONE, your call for "recession" is essentially a lie. But what's new from a Slaver's lips?
Oh, and about the "crashing US economy"? Take a look at the dollar versus the Euro (it's gaining), the dollar versus the GBP (gaining), the price of oil (still falling), gold/silver/platinum (falling). All of which point to a STRENGTHENING US dollar. Which directly indicates a STRENGTHENING US economy.
Learn something about economics first - it'll save you a lot of embarrassment later!
PBJ at 39 posted:
Why should he go on a disreputable station that steals money from childrens charities and was founded by a money launderer?
Well, if the Slavers can't kill them after they're born, maybe they can steal money from their charities later on...
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 4, 2008 04:45 PMWhat do you think of the war zone called Chicago? After all, there were twice as many murders in Chicago as soldier died in Iraq this summer.
The streets of Chicago are more dangerous than the streets of Baghdad. Is this what a community organizer does?
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 4, 2008 04:54 PMAnyone can get their name on a bill. Big deal. It's the tough ones you have to fight for to get passed that mean something. However, I prefer executive experience for the head CEO of the country myself.
Notice Obama had to go on O'Reilly? Feeling the heat? It was kind of what David Brooks had to say about Obama. He had face to face with the One and liked the guy and got the feeling the guy understood what he had to say. Until, that is, he realized the people at the Nation said the same thing about the same issues. Then he realized the guy is a 'come on, can't we all get along' type of guy. Same thing at the O'Reilly meeting.
Posted by: swatter on September 4, 2008 05:13 PMYou really are proof that a mind is a terrible thing to waste. Palin said:
"While I was at it, I got rid of a few things in the governor's office that I didn't believe our citizens should have to pay for. That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay."
What is wrong? She listed it on eBay. Minimum bid wasn't made, so it was sold through a private broker. But her literal and implied words were fully, 100% correct.
Only in the drug-addled Slaver minds did she lie about this. You have to make up your own alternate reality to come to that conclusion.
To paraphrase Dean Wormer:
Democrat, stoned, and stupid is no way to go through life, son
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 4, 2008 05:27 PMPalin did not sell any jet on eBay.
No one in here, nor in the campaign, said she did. Nice straw man!
swatter:
Back to calling everyone you disagree with a 'liar' again?
swatter, if you are talking about me, you are spreading lies. I have NEVER done that. Ever. And you know it. I am actually pointing out actual lies.
It's astonishing to me that anyone gives a damn about me calling actual lies by what they are, and are apparently less concerned with the lies being told. It's rare that anyone even ATTEMPTS to show that I am incorrectly calling something a lie, because I reserve that word for when it's accurate.
That I use it a lot is less a reflection on me than the people it is used toward.
If you or anyone disagrees, fine, go over my use of the word and show how it's been used incorrectly. I won't hold my breath.
Well tc you're right of course and I see you that you are long on lots of bills but pretty poor on what they'll cost the taxpayer...
Here's a bill with Obama's name on it: Obama, Hagel, Cantwell, Smith Hail Committee Passage of the Global Poverty Act
So what's this bit of legislative nonsense going to cost us?
Consider the words of one Edward Cline: "Congress is proposing, in Barack Obama's Global Poverty Act (S.2433, based on H.R. 1302, passed by the House September 25, 2007), that Americans be delivered into a state of indentured servitude as laborers for the United Nations. Perhaps "indentured servitude" is too kind a term, for as horrendous a condition as it is, there is usually a time limit to such servitude. Slavery would be the more accurate term in this instance, for what Congress is considering is servitude by Americans in perpetuity, in exchange for nothing but the privilege of laboring to "save" the world without thanks or reward, of filling the alleged needs of others, of performing unlimited "community service" for the offense of merely existing.
The not-so-peculiar and odd thing about H.R. 1302 was that it passed the House by voice vote. This is a stratagem adopted by legislators who fear that a bill is so outrageous that it is better that no record be kept of those who endorsed it. S.2433 was passed from the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in the same manner - by voice vote, without public hearings, to protect the identities of the guilty. It will probably be introduced to the Senate for a similar, anonymous voice vote -- by Harry Reid"
So tc does legislation like that make your chest swell with pride?
Posted by: juandos on September 4, 2008 05:30 PMIndignation over the sting of truth is the defense of the indefensible.
Describes the Slavery Party to a "T".
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 4, 2008 05:33 PMHaha, goal-post-shifitng? Come on Pudge, answer the question. The last 2 months have been noithing but Obama smear ad's. Not a single policy ad by John McCain. Sure makes it look like McCain doesn't have a platform to stand on. I wouldn't doubt it in the least, economy is failing and middle-America is going to hold the GOP responsible.
Now Pudge, you really should be working to stop the party form shifting into the hands of the American Evangelical wing, it scares off the moderate independents and dooms the party.
he's a leftist OhDrama supporter. You give him far too much credit... because, in fact, he IS that stupid.
Posted by: Hinton on September 4, 2008 05:38 PMHaha, goal-post-shifitng?
Yes, that is what it is called when you make one statement, and then arbitrarily modify that statement when it is shown your statement was incorrect.
Come on Pudge, answer the question.
No. I am not even going to look. If I find one, then you'll just say, "fine, but they didn't talk about policy in the convention." And then I'll find a quote, and then you'll say, "fine, but they didn't talk about policy here, or there."
It's a waste of time, and it proves nothing, since McCain HAS been talking about policy, at least as much as Obama (well, OK, maybe until last Thursday, but McCain has yet to speak at HIS convention).
Now Pudge, you really should be working to stop the party form shifting into the hands of the American Evangelical wing
Someone who understood the GOP would never say that, and as you don't understand the GOP, your opinion is irrelevant. Someone who understood the GOP recognizes that the evaneglical wing has been important for a long time but has never been in control, and never could be, because the GOP has too many varied factions. The neocons are not evangelicals are not business owners. You can't have one faction running things.
Now, how many people were wounded in Iraq from gunfire vs Chicago...I think that would be a better comparison. People don't travel in armored Humvee's with machine gun mounts and full body armor when traveling in Chicago...maybe they should start. Or maybe they should do something about the number of guns in the hands of criminals. Of course the recent Supreme Court decision pretty much ended any chance of fixing that.
Haha, Juandos is touting out conspiracy theories.
Now maybe someone in the Hypocrisy Party can explain why Bristol Palin's BF has not been charged with statutory rape? The laws in Alaska are quite clear about 18 years having sex with minors. They're clearly not married, he should be locked up.
Seems like the party is touting 'Law & Order' and 'Family Values' but willing to look the other way when it affects one of thier own...fun times in the Hypocrisy Party.
Like, for example, Bidens 5 deferments? Man... you people lost your minds (what little you have left) over Cheney's deferments.
Since you're a card-carrying member of the fringe-left wing, one can only wonder why you chose to affiliate yourself with the "Hypocrisy Party" that you so staunchly defend.
Posted by: Hinton on September 4, 2008 05:53 PMHere's a commercial on energy policy.
Another commercial telling McCain's energy policy and contrasting against the Obama and Slavery Party position.
Another pure McCain position ad. No mention of the Slavery Party or Obama.
One on tolerance and diversity (concepts foreign to you Slavery Party comrades).
Democrats supporting McCain for his experience and independence. No attacks there.
An ad with other Democrats attacking Obama. Not John McCain.
Oh, and to show his class watch this commercial.
So suck down your hate and own your lie. McCain's had several ads out clarifying his positions. In the last two months, four months, and six months.
Obama? Empty platitudes of hope and change. Apparently with change being selecting the second longest serving Senator as his running mate, and hope that you won't be bankrupted by his policies!
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 4, 2008 05:55 PMPudge: And Palin did the exact same about Obama's experience as a community organizer, in the context of a run for President.
Palin's experience pales. All she wants to bring up is Obama's community organizer days (pre-Harvard). She doesn't mention his Editor of Harvard Law Review. She doesn't mention his very successful Project Vote organization. She dosn't mention his eight years as a State Senator in one of the top most populous states in the nation. She doesn't count his four years in the US Senate. Obama has not only experience, but also educational background. Further, Obama has been involved in key legislation, like the Nuclear Non-prolifiation Bill, where he worked with Chuck Hagel. His work on the Illinois Bill regarding the taping of Police interrogations has been widely recognized for his ability to resolve a very difficult issue.
Pudge: She can handle it, and he can't.
Like she handled Troopergate. Like threatening the town's librarian with firing because she wouldn't censor books in the library. Like when coming in as mayor making current heads resign because they supported her opponent. Like running Ted Stevens 527. Like being for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it. Got to love the picture of her in Ketchikan with the Nowhere USA t-shirt on.
Pudge: Again, this is not about who can or can't manage what, this is about rhetoric: ...
Changing the subject and failing to answer the question. It isn't about rhetoric. It is about who has the best ideas to solve the issues facing Americans. Of course, the Republicans don't want to address the issues. They just want to have four more years of partisan bickering. The know that they don't have any new ideas. It is all the same old ideas that have gave us the past eight years. Tax cuts for the rich and for the oil industry, while making the Middle Class pay taxes on Health care premiums that were previously not taxed.
Pudge: False premise. They get it quite well. You have no evidence to the contrary.
Your evidence is what? Obama has two million donor base. Obama has grassroot organizations established in all fifty states. The evidence is clear from the campaign. Bottom-up works. If it didn't, then you would have seen Hillary at the top of the Democratic ticket.
Pudge: Yes, that is why I do everything myself as chair of the 39th GOP instead of trying to organize grassroots volunteers. Oh wait, I spend much of my time organizing grassroots volunteers! Huh!
That would make you a despised community organizer. Thanks for validating my point.
Pudge: No, he has not. This is an extremely OLD approach to politics.
His two million donor base, grass-roots, fast reacting local organizations in all fifty states prove your statement wrong. Further, it was Obama who stated Palin's family should be left out of the discussion. Biden is blasting the media because he also feels they are being sexist in their Palin coverage. You just don't like it when Obama attacks McCain's positions, or lack of positions on the issue. You want to change the subject and make it about personalities. Get back to the issues Pudge.
Pudge: He has done no type of attacks Obama hasn't done. Obama, in fact, has done far MORE of those kinds of attacks this year.
This is blantanly false. Take for example, McCain's lie that Obama wants to raise your taxes (directing the comment at an audience of middle class voters). This if false. I have documented this in my response to Ragnar in another post. Now, if McCain was talking to his rich donors, it would be a true statement, but it isn't true to the audience he was directing the comments. Palin's speech last night was filled with so many lies, I lost count. She is speaking for the McCain campaign and thus speaking for John McCain, himself. She repeated the tax lie. She lied about his legislative record. She lied about his background. She slandered all community volunteers, just two days after the Republicans, themsleves performed the very same actions. An aside, you talk about Obama being the same. Obama on Monday activated is donor base to give to the Red Cross.
Pudge: Nope, McCain has not spent more time on patriotism, nor less time on issues, than Obama. You are completely full of it, tc.
You are right. McCain has spent in ordinate amount of time attacking Obama's patriotism. McCian's words were that Obama puts winning the election over the benefit of the country. Flat out lie. It can be demonstrated by Obama's regular visits to Walter Reed (non-publicized). You know better than this Pudge. You actually went to Obama's web site and read his Blueprint for change and his positions on the issues. Just because someone disagrees with one's politics doesn't make them unpatriotic. McCain wants to continue the Bush practice of you either for my policy or you are unpatriotic. Disagreement in a free society is necessary. We are a free nation. We are free to speak our minds. We are also free to disagree with our leaders. We aren't China. You disagree with our governor on numerous issues. This doesn't make you unpatriotic. John McCain doesn't have the market on patriotism cornered.
Pudge: You're a liar. There was no such denigration. I completely defy you to show it.
Uh. Can you say last nights talks by Rudy and Palin? They openly mocked community organizers.
No, I completely defy you to show that ANYONE AT ALL in the convention program attacked denigrated community organizers.
Pudge: It never happened. You're lying.
Just rewatch last night. It most certainly did.
No, I would say I was wrong. You should know me better than that. If I am proven wrong I will admit it.
McCain HAS been talking about policy, at least as much as Obama
I haven't seem him talk about anything except his VP choice and telling the media to bugger off when they attempt to vet her.
Someone who understood the GOP would never say that, and as you don't understand the GOP, your opinion is irrelevant.
Irrelevant? Doubt it.
GOP recognizes that the evaneglical wing has been important for a long time but has never been in control, and never could be
Until now....picking Plain was a clear sign of cow-towing to the Evangical wing. He was telling the truth eight years ago, now he's sharing the ticket with them. Shame too, Ol' Sen. Flip-Flop was such a good candidate 8 years ago...I even voted for him in the primary.
Now, how many people were wounded in Iraq from gunfire vs Chicago...
Cato, you really need to learn to use that "Google" thing. Thirty nine wounded, in addition to the 65 killed. In Chicago, it was 245 wounded.
People don't travel in armored Humvee's with machine gun mounts and full body armor when traveling in Chicago...maybe they should start.
On that we can agree. The murder and gun violence is what happens when you have a community organizer trying to run things!
Now maybe someone in the Hypocrisy Party can explain why Bristol Palin's BF has not been charged with statutory rape? The laws in Alaska are quite clear about 18 years having sex with minors. They're clearly not married, he should be locked up.
Again, you need to learn about this thing called The Google. Maybe you can actually educate yourself about a few things rather than simply regurgitating the bald-faced lies of the Slavery Party. And then you'd learn that statutory rape only applies if the minor is 16 or younger, NOT 17.
Cato, face it. You have no facts, you make stuff up, you are a political hack through and through. A Slaver, a fascist, a marxist, and a liar. With the bogus reference about a "recession" that didn't even contain that word, you're a proven idiot (and that truly is the correct word). And with your obvious inability to use Google, ignorant and unwilling to learn, too.
Facts must really scare you!
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 4, 2008 06:06 PMAs far as "major," I will be glad to go through (I hadn't had the chance to). First, though, given your wanting to parse words ala Bill Clinton, you need to come up with what "major" means. Does it mean a bill that changes state law? Does it include bills that authorize state funds? What does "major" mean to you?
Posted by: tc on September 4, 2008 06:08 PMIf this is the type of leadership that he's exhibited towards his constituents in Illinois for the past 3 years, what makes him think he'd provide any better representation to the American people?
Normally, leaders improve over time, but it appears the Jr. Senator has bucked that trend by regressing nearly every quarter during his time in the U.S. Senate.
Barack Obama missed 301 of 1282 roll call votes (23%) since Jan 6, 2005. Will the American electorate settle for a 77% attendance from its CEO? and when asked yes or no....hundreds of times he meekly said "present".
Barack Obama by the numbers:
Time Period/Number of Votes/ Missed Votes Percent
2005-Q1 / 81/ 0 /0%
2005-Q2 /89 /6 /6.7%
2005-Q3 /76 /1 /1.3%
2005-Q4 /119/ 1 /0.8%
2006-Q1 /83 0 /0%
2006-Q2 /107/ 2 /1.9%
2006-Q3 /73 /1/1.4%
2006-Q4 /16 /0/ 0%
2007-Q1 /126 3/2.4%
2007-Q2 /112 /20/ 17.9%
2007-Q3 /119 /67 /56.3%
2007-Q4 /85 /76 /89.4%
2008-Q1 /85 /31 /36.5%
2008-Q2 /77 /65 /84.4%
2008-Q3 /34 /28 /82.4%
*source:http://www.govtrack.us/congress/person.xpd?id=400629&tab=votes
I've heard of diminishing rate on returns, but this would make anyone wonder if the Jr. Senator of Illinois can even remember what the Capitol rotunda looks like.
Palin stated the line last night. Her words were that she sold the jet on EBay.
Once again you are a flat out liar, and easily proved as such:
Sarah Palin's Speech: That luxury jet was over the top. I put it on eBay.
Source: The International Herald Tribune, the Global edition of the New York Times.
Admit your lie. Own your lie. For it is plain as day. Dodge it, deny it and you prove yourself to be nothing more than a lying partisan with no morals, no intellect, no center.
Liar, liar, liar.
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 4, 2008 06:22 PMtc once again, lies...The desperation is setting in for camp Obama.
p.s. The portion you're interested in is at 1:20
Couple things come to mind here cato, do you know the time line of how this pregnancy worked out? I mean the boy could've been 17 at the time...
The second thing that comes to mind is how do you know what the law in Alaska is and how it may or may not apply to Palin daughter and boy friend?
So do you feel all better now that you've again shown us what you don't know cato?
Yet as I read further down it seems that cato is bound and determined to make everyone understand that he's either a liar or has his head buried in the MSM narrative: "I haven't seem him talk about anything except his VP choice and telling the media to bugger off when they attempt to vet her"...
So which is it cato are you lying or are you depending on the Seattle PI for your less than credible information?
BTW I personally am less than impressed with manchurian candidate's supposed energy program and on top of that a visit to his site will show one and all that manchurian candidate like the androgynous neo-marxist that cato is so heavily invested in believe in the junk science of human induced global weather change...
Posted by: juandos on September 4, 2008 06:34 PMFrom now on you will be known as total crackpot.
Posted by: pbj on September 4, 2008 09:22 PMall as synonyms
Posted by: jimmie-howya-doin on September 4, 2008 10:06 PMThe choice of clear - style (Obambam/Biden) vs. substance (McCain/Palin). This a dangerous and volatile time and the intelligence and future of Americans will be measured by the result.
I, like Cato, do apologize when I am mistaken. It is something many here could learn to also do.
Posted by: tc on September 4, 2008 10:21 PMIf Obama was not mocking small-town public officials, then Palin was not mocking community organizers. Unless you care to bring out their words and show how they were different, you cannot win this case.
If you want to talk non-government experience, fine, yes, Obama was Harvard Law Review. I am far more impressed by being mother to five children than Harvard Law Review. What school you went to or what degree you have means absolutely nothing to me, because I know many people with advanced degrees from the best schools, so I know better. Please don't waste our time with such trivialities.
And yes, he did community organizing. She was on the PTA. He was a state senator. She was mayor. He was Senator. She was governor. How again does her experience "pale"? Oh right: Harvard Law Review! Harvard Law Review! Harvard Law Review!
Like she handled Troopergate.
She did nothing wrong.
Like threatening the town's librarian with firing because she wouldn't censor books in the library.
Which books?
Like when coming in as mayor making current heads resign because they supported her opponent.
Why would anyone have a problem with that?
Like running Ted Stevens 527.
You say that like it is a bad thing. Why?
Like being for the Bridge to Nowhere before she was against it.
So? She changed her mind as circumstances changed. Good for her.
Changing the subject and failing to answer the question.
Ummmmm. The "question" I didn't answer was a textbook ad hominem argumentum fallacy. Of course I didn't answer it, it's irrelevant. What the hell is wrong with you?
Of course, the Republicans don't want to address the issues. They just want to have four more years of partisan bickering.
Um. So who brought up "troopergate" and "Ted Stevens 527" etc.? You're so completely full of crap.
Whatever, I am giving up on you. I note for the record that you refused to give a single example of anyone denigrating community organizers, and I hereby *plonk* you.
No, I would say I was wrong. You should know me better than that. If I am proven wrong I will admit it.
Um. Then I must have missed you saying you were wrong when you said "Seems all his ad's are spent trashing Obama rather than displaying his own policy positions," and when you said the economy was in a "recession."
So no, I DO know you too well to think you would admit you were wrong. Instead you shift the goalposts and try again.
You are joining tc. *plonk*
I was going to immedialtey ignore you, but one more comment, to prove that you are nothing more than a damned liar who doesn't care one whit for facts that don't support you and is perfectly willing to make up anything he wishes at any time.
YOU ARE A DAMNED LIAR, and this will be my last post to you.
Palin stated the line last night. Her words were that she sold the jet on EBay.
No, she did not. Go away.
You are forever bitbucketed.
Shoo.
I will leave you with the real "truth" about your wonder woman Sarah Palin. If McCain campaign had done its due diligence they may have found out what they are in for.
Letter from Wasilla resident that has known Sarah and her family for years and what she actually did while mayor and governor.
Posted by: tc on September 4, 2008 10:44 PMIt is a simple fact. If I state I agree with you, I am not a liar. If I disagree with you, I am a liar. Are you really that shallow that you can't take disagreement? Are you really stating you are never wrong?
Posted by: tc on September 4, 2008 10:49 PMThe lady admitted that she and Palin haven't gotten along in 12 years since she was one of the 100 or so people opposed to the "book ban" at the library. Yet, she doesn't even disclose what book(s) that Palin was seeking to get banned...Huster,Penthouse,Catcher in the Rye,Old man and the Sea? Hello? Context matters and since she didn't disclose what books they were, this is likely a non starter. Librarians here have fought to have the use of the library computers availabe for pedophiles to d/l kiddie porn while some mother has her child trying to find a copy of "thomas the tank engine" in the next aisle over. Context matters.
I think this lady is probably just a jealous housewife who's interested in everyone elses business and most likely laments that she has missed out on the life that Sarah Palin and her family currently enjoy. Sour grapes.
Posted by: Rick D. on September 5, 2008 06:35 AMWell, if you have followed my posts in the past, I have never been for pro-choice. I have stated several times that I feel, at a minimum, third semester abortions are against the law as it stands today. There doesn't need to be a change in the law with regards to this matter. For example, the current WA state law puts the bar at viability.
I have also stated my opposition to life beginning at the moment of conception, which I used to believe to be the case. However, I found myself as I did further and further reading on this subject, this election cycle, I found I couldn't come up with a theological, nor non-theological argument to adequately defend this position. One of the key issues I have is the arguments fail when it comes to identical twins. I also consider the recent argument I seen with regards to US Citizen rights an interesting consideration. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it has given me pause to come up with an explanation adquate enough to shoot it down.
I have stated three positions, in the past, that I find the closet to being solid enough to argue. There is no question in my mind that once the frontal cortex of the brain has formed, you have all the elements present that make us unique, self aware human beings. This can be argued from both a scientific standpoint, as Carl Sagan did in his essay, and from a theological standpoint, since it has been shown that this is the center of the brain where our "religious thought" occurs.
I also can see from a theological standpoint that a position of no artificial interference to the natural process being a valid position. In policy terms, this would be no contraceptives, no vasectomies, no hystorectomies, etc., let alone abortions.
Finally, the position, I lean the closet to at this moment is life beginning at moment of implatation of the blastocyst into the uterus. At this point, you no longer have the issue of identical twins to deal with. They are two unique fetuses at this point. You have the appearence of blood around this point (either from the mother, or within the fetus itself). Blood is very much symbolic throughout the Bible with regards to life. It also allows for contraceptives, and it doesn't make artificial insemination and what to do with fertilized embryo's issue a question mark.
I don't disagree with your assesment of the letter writer. I put it out there as a point of reference. She named herself in her letter, so it would be easy for follow-up on the content of her letter. There are facts she brings out that clarify or explain the twon better. For example, she states that the town has a city administrator, who does the day-to-day management of the city. This is a common structure for a city of this size. My own city where I live, which is similar size, has the same organizational structure. It has an elected mayor who runs council meetings and is the face of the city at public events, and a city manager that runs the business of the city.
Posted by: tc on September 5, 2008 07:02 AMYou linked us to a letter written by a busybody nemesis of Palin's and we're supposed to swallow all of her angst as if it were "actually" true? That on its face is ridiculous. If I'm to poll 5,000 people who know you tc, am I to believe the 15% that thought you were a cad or the 85% that viewed you pretty favorably? Answer: the law of averages.
When i referenced choice I didn't directly mean the abortion topic, but the choice whether or not to keep your pregnancy to yourself for awhile. Can you imagine the questions that pregnant women feel for 9 months? blah, blah, you're getting bigger, hey, is it kicking yet,blah,blah...so she decided to go through only 2 months of blustery rather than 9. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.
What business is it of the letter writer?
That letter is garbage in/garbage out and shouldn't be held up as some kind of evidenciary incrimination of Palin.
Posted by: Rick D. on September 5, 2008 09:17 AMhttp://www.nypost.com/seven/09052008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/the_organizer_joke_127550.htm
Posted by: peter on September 5, 2008 09:39 PMhttp://www.nypost.com/seven/09052008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/the_organizer_joke_127550.htm
Posted by: peter on September 5, 2008 09:40 PM