As usual, updates scroll chronologically from bottom to top.
11:03 PM - KOMO interviewed both candidates after the debate, Gregoire says she has "an amazing record of accomplishment."
Funny, you don't hear about that much on the campaign trail...especially from her ads.
10:51 PM - Coverage of the debate:
The P-I's Strange Bedfellows blog live-blogged the debate
Here's the initial AP story on the debate sparring.
Related: the AP had wire story features on Gregoire and Rossi out prior to the debate today.
10:13 PM - Follow-up thoughts on the debate itself:
Rossi won the first 10 minutes of the debate by a country mile. She was torn to bits in the discussion the discussion of the deficit, her record on spending, and his deflection of her George W. Bush talking points.
Gregoire is a much better policy wonk than politician. She has a detailed talking point for every issue...once she gets past her obligatory shot at George W. Bush Dino Rossi off on each topic.
I think if it was just low-information voters watching this debate then Gregoire might actually come out better. She has a pretty sounding answer for everything. But let's face it, 9 pm on a Saturday night means high-information voters are watching. Her rhetoric doesn't hold much water with anyone holding an even basic knowledge of how state government has performed in recent years.
That, and she's always on the attack. Always. And always gesturing vigorously with that clenched fist. A warm and fuzzy candidate this is not.
10:00 PM - Insta-grades:
Rossi A-. On message, just the dude you see on the campaign commercials. Drilled Gregoire on the deficit, change in Olympia, bi-partisan leadership. Didn't seem as consistently on message on some individual topic questions.
Gregoire B- She seem flustered by Rossi roughing her up on the budget deficit. But she's a dogged, energetic debater who sticks to her talking points (Bush!). She got her shots in on Rossi, but if you were looking for someone presenting a vision for Washington state then she's not your candidate. Rossi says the campaign is about change in Olympia. If you believe Gregoire, this is about Dino Rossi evidently being a paved version of George W. Bush. A weird way for an incumbent to run for re-election.
9:57 PM - Gregoire says she believes in "straight talk." Uh, has she looked at her own vacuous, misleading, and incorrect rhetoric on stem cells in both 2004 and 2008?
Then she closes with the fact that Dino Rossi hates kids, seniors, and everyone else...or something like that.
9:56 PM - Rossi closes noting that this election isn't about him changing the culture and direction of state government
9:53 PM - Gregoire says "people want buses, they want rapid transit." True. I like transit too. But long overdue suburban roads projects still need to be built (which is why Gregoire endorsed them last year). If mass transit doesn't work for you and you live in the suburbs, looks like Gregoire is telling you: tough.
9:50 PM - Gregoire says transportation shouldn't be just about the roads Rossi wants and she evidently no longer supports...talks about "alternatives." Um, that's nice. What are they Governor? As Rossi said, transit has always been a local issue. Are you proposing an increase in spending, getting the state into the transit business it isn't currently a part of?
Bizarre.
9:48 PM - Rossi spins a question about what he would ask John McCain into a discussion of Gregoire's budget deficit, working across party lines, and reform. Bulldog.
9:46 PM - stop punching your fist toward me while you speak Governor. I got your disingenuous point the first time...but thanks for the emphasis.
9:45 PM - Rossi points out that the nine major roads projects in his plan have all been endorsed by Gregoire...funny thing how she keeps complaining about those roads he's proposing. A pair of flip-flops for you, Governor?
9:44 PM - That's at least the third reference to dinorossi.com. Gregoire hasn't mentioned her website once.
9:43 PM - Gregoire is good at sticking to talking points and saying not nice things about Rossi. Talking about what she would do as Governor for another four years? Eh, not so much.
9:41 PM - Irony watch: Gregoire is upset that Rossi supposedly doesn't have a plan on crime. You mean like she doesn't have plans on anything that she's talking about on the campaign trail?
9:40 PM - Gregoire is shaking her head like a disappointed school marm while Rossi recounts her Administration's record on early release of felons and on unregistered sex offenders. Heh.
9:38 PM - Rossi calls Gregoire out for her "political ploy" in 2004 on stem cell research, citing the Tacoma News Tribune's reporting and editorializing in 2005. More here.
9:37 PM - that health care discussion was boring.
9:33 PM - Gregoire says she has a "reform plan" for education. Why doesn't she ever talk about it?
9:32 PM - why does Gregoire keep gesturing so vigorously with her fist when answering? Something about that seems a bit off.
9:31 PM - first question from a voter, African-American woman asking how education can be improved without raising taxes. Sweet.
9:30 PM - Gregoire says Rossi wants to "pave everything." Um, he supports roads projects - including those included in last year's failed Prop. 1 - that Gregoire herself voiced support for. Way to be disingenuous, Governor!
9:28 PM - we're almost half hour in, no question about stem cells yet. Could that be because it's a non-issue for an actual Governor?
9:26 PM - this debate was gotten very wonky while talking about energy.
Gregoire talking about global warming....Bush reference in 3, 2, 1...
9:24 PM - "nothing is going to change unless you change the people in Olympia..." I don't think some Democrats recognize how powerful that idea is among key portions of the electorate.
9:23 PM - "the incumbent comes from government"...she has "a narrow, Olympia-centric view of the world." Bet we'll see something like that in a contrast ad later in the coming weeks.
9:21 PM - Hey great, "we created 250,000 new jobs." Wonderful. Unemployment's still going up. Gas prices are high. And Gregoire doesn't have a plan she's talking about on the campaign trail for any major issue out there (the budget, transportation, education, the economy, etc., etc.)
9:20 PM - I'll give Gregoire credit, she stays on message on hammering Rossi at every chance she gets. Of course that's because as an incumbent she doesn't have record worth running on...
9:17 PM - Gee, I wonder why Rossi keeps raising the specter of the Viaduct? I mean, that hasn't left a bad taste in anyone's mouth has it?
9:15 PM - Gregoire sure makes a nice list of excuses on why transportation hasn't gotten any better on her watch.
Wait, she said we're making "progress" on our ferry system? Is she kidding?
9:13 PM - "She didn't say she wasn't going to raise taxes, she said now's not the time to talk about them."
Exactly. Visionary leadership this is not.
9:11 PM - Gregoire still claims there's a budget surplus. True. Right now. But as soon as the next biennial budget kicks in everyone knows there's a $3 billion budget deficit looming that the Legislature has to deal with come January.
Gregoire dodges a direct answer on whether or not she'll raise taxes. Subtle.
9:10 PM - Dino just annihilates her on her Bush references. Now he's wailing away on her massive spending hike as Governor. Starts talking about balancing the budget like families do.
She's bleeding...and it's not the red jacket she's wearing.
9:09 PM - Dan Lewis asks Gregoire a question about that massive deficit facing the state. Her answer: doesn't talk a lick about the deficit. Gets more Bush references in...both 43 and 41.
9:07 PM - First Bush reference, less than 30 seconds in to Gregoire's opening statement. Awesome.
Gregoire came out swinging. All contrast on "values"...nothing on actual issues the Governor will deal with.
Hey netrooters: she's talking about that Eyman property tax cap again!
9:05 PM - Dino leads off with the opening statement. Seems a bit nervous at first. Now he's hitting her right between the eyes on her bogus stem cell ads versus the deficit and all the other issues on voters minds.
9:03 PM - drinking game possibility: take a swig every time Gregoire says "Bush." Prediction: you'll be freaking hammered if you try it.
9:01 PM - Rossi's goal tonight: be the likable, reasonable sounding fellow you see in his TV ads...talking about the issues at the top of voters' minds. Gregoire's goal: don't be the cold-fish she came off as in 2004. Land lots of shots on Rossi? Why? Well, what else is her campaign about these days?
8:58 PM - what genius thought Saturday night was a good time for this?
UPDATE: a few live-blogging typos cleaned up for readability.
Posted by Eric Earling at September 20, 2008 08:58 PM | Email This
Now let's hear Rossi lie his way out of his foolhardy transportation plan - Rossi: It's either Toll Roads or Dirt Roads - either way he won't pay for it.
Sorry I'm won't be buying into a Rossi mortgage, last need we need is another real estate bust as governor.
Bill Clinton when he was vociferous about "I did not have sex with that woman"...
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 20, 2008 09:26 PMHe has gone out of his way to be specific, but has cute little stories. (real estate sales 101)
Rossi is running on the traditional GOP "Culture of Debt".
Posted by: Paul on September 20, 2008 09:28 PMHairy
Posted by: Hairy Buddah on September 20, 2008 09:35 PMLet's Re-Elect Rossi.
Posted by: Puget Sound on September 20, 2008 09:38 PMThat's right, Rossi is running on Obama's coat tails.
Posted by: Paul on September 20, 2008 09:40 PM
And ask her just why she cannot make a selection prior to the election? Afraid that she might tick off part of the population of Seattle?
Posted by: Gracious Street on September 20, 2008 09:42 PMNow Rossi just flat-out rejected any transportation but roads. Just stupid.
Rossi: Dirt Roads or Toll Roads
Posted by: Paul on September 20, 2008 09:46 PMIs anybody counting this?
Posted by: Gracious Street on September 20, 2008 09:49 PMIf you were a sucker for theses fabulous mortgages Wall Street has been selling because some slick-as-snot real estate salesman pitched it to you, then Rossi is your man.
Wonder how the lefty media is going to spin this....
Posted by: AP on September 20, 2008 09:52 PMI wonder who in Rossi's pool won the bet?
It is a stupid thing to do and insulting to us to even begin to try to tie Bush to the problems in this area. Then again, she is trying to shield her own faults by blaming him.
Posted by: Gracious Street on September 20, 2008 09:59 PMNowhere did I hear what I wanted to hear about decreased taxes, increased personal responsibility, and specific government programs that needed to be cut from our bloated state budget.
Pumping fist and all, Gregoire sounded more forceful and confident than Rossi. Yeah he was right on the issues, but he never nailed her in a way that was obvious to the casual voter. He still has my vote, but I don't think he helped himself tonight.
Hairy
Posted by: Hairy Buddah on September 20, 2008 10:00 PMHe ought to have been better prepared for the attack- she's got nothing to stand on- so much like Borat, she's got to kick sand everyone's eyes and distort facts.
Yeah it's early, but he's got to hit harder.
Come on - it took 3 freaking hours to drive from Bellevue to Olympia friday afternoon. I'd rather see some asphalt than Norm Dicks son appointed to a blue ribbon panel.
Posted by: Andy on September 20, 2008 10:03 PMKnocking Rossi on his transportation plan is disingenuous when she has said that she'll release her plan after the election.
"Now isn't the time to talk about taxes" doesn't equal no new taxes - it just means she won't talk about them until after the election.
Hitting Rossi for "his budget" just says that the Democratic legislature and Governor that signed the budget into law are idiots. That shoud go over well.
Some of the questions bothered me. Something like, "Give detailed plans on how do you plan to solve world hunger - you have 15 seconds" The responses didn't get far.
Posted by: SouthernRoots on September 20, 2008 10:03 PMGregoire sprinkled lies throughout the debate. On no fewer that four occasions did she mention that Rossi had no plan after he got through describing his plan - that insulted our intelligence. I commend Dino for keeping his cool and not calling the Governor a liar and being tactful in claiming what she said wasn't true, which he could have done on numerous occasions. He spun a few himself - as poiticians do, but only a small fraction of the lies that she came forth with.
Another lie from her (at least twice) embryonic stem cells are most important - No they aren't - Adult stem cells are and embryonic stem cells have yielded results few and far between. Dino missed an opportunity there, because she probably pulled the wool over people's eyes with that fabrication. He finished fairly strong and would say that he won this round.
Posted by: KS on September 20, 2008 10:06 PMI despise Gregoire far more than anyone else on this forum, and will vote for Rossi anyway, mostly for social and fiscal reasons, but he is going to be forced to deal with the corruption in Olympia.
Posted by: Don on September 20, 2008 10:06 PMEven McCain has been condemning 'Casino Economics' - obviously Rossi's only plan to pay exorbitant transportation pipedream plan.
Casinos have been enterprise success stories in our state, not if Rossi gets his hands in their pockets.
Sorry Rossi - hands off my casino.
I've heard Rossi wants to raise a smokers tax on casinos, because it the only place you can have a smoke and a beer at the same time.
Um. He isn't running any such ads. Where did you come up with such nonsense?
I've heard Rossi wants to raise a smokers tax on casinos
It's false. You probably heard it the same place you heard about his ads about Casino Chris that don't exist.
Posted by: pudge on September 20, 2008 10:12 PMThat is because she has nothing else to run on. Dino needs to be more aggressive next time and blow off her tactics and attack more. He was too nice, but still think he prevailed. He will have to deal with a Democrat majority that has corrupted state government and it will be tough to repair, but it will be a far sight better with him than her again. With her, the corruption will only get worse. Is it too much to ask voters to wake up to the fact that Olympia is badly broken ?
Posted by: KS on September 20, 2008 10:15 PMNo deny this. Can't have it both ways.
Biggest takeaway - no one really changed their opinions all that much. But Rossi has a spark started, and needs to push the "change" stance he represents.
Both Presidential candidates are candidates of "change". Rossi is also the candidate of change - Gregoire is a 40+ year State veteran. She IS part of the problem.
This came up in the after-debate "debate" here, and was the one thing that the Gregoire supporters simply had to cede and say "you're right".
Rossi needs to push this point: Obama AND McCain both can lay claim to being agents of change, either by their inexperience and few years in government (Obama) or their 20+ year history of being a maverick and outside the norm (McCain).
Rossi IS the candidate of change - he is fresh, lots of outside-Olympia experience, and has proven his abilities before. Gregiore is the ultimate Olympian insider, and represents everything that is wrong with the state.
You want change? Obama or McCain means you should also support Rossi.
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 20, 2008 10:21 PMPosted by: jk on September 20, 2008 10:21 PM
She must not have gotten the bHo/Joe talking points.
This debate was a joke. They both performed their rote commercial soundbites. Yawn. Half the time, neither even answered the question they were asked. Both got flustered, but Rossi covered his better. The chrissy queen got shrewish... you could tell because she became more excitable and her voice went faster and higher.
I liked that Rossi used specific references: only 48 sex offenders with ankle moniters, felons released under the bridge. Where the heck was the tribal money reference though?
Her Bush/BIAW mantra got tiresome. I suspect that was a play to her diehard lefty moonbats.
I notice she got a "choice" comment in. I would have loved to ask the question: "You both are Catholic, how do you account for the great chasm of differences between you when you each claim to honor obedience to the beliefs your Church so clearly demands."
I will say it's pretty clear they despise each other. I give Rossi points for FINALLY using her name in the closing arguement.
Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on September 20, 2008 10:24 PMI love that ad...and I think that they are right..do they drug test in Olympia?
Posted by: Gracious Street on September 20, 2008 10:25 PMWhat about the gas tax that you claimed Rossi would raise ? Still waiting for your answer.
Posted by: KS on September 20, 2008 10:25 PMI thought Rossi did a good job of pointing out her logic on our so-called surplus and explaining the "Olympia Cuts." But if I weren't already strongly a Rossi supporter, I don't know if I'd say he won the debate. It's hard to be objective because I dislike Gregoire so intensely.
Amyzzon, I understand about the voice thing.
Posted by: Paula on September 20, 2008 10:28 PMNow it fair to complain when someone passes up an opportunity not to raise taxes, but if you oppose it then you clearly in favor of raising taxes.
Raising taxes on tribal don't get passed on to its customers. That's raising taxes on me. Of course there's some bible thumpers out there who detest casinos, but the deal with the tribes was no new taxes - no new casinos.
So both RGA PAC and Rossi want to raise taxes on casinos. Same difference.
Posted by: Paul on September 20, 2008 10:31 PMAlso, the tribal casinos should pay their fair share. Why are they giving Gregoire all that $ and our state is the last one not getting $, even though we are facing a giant deficit?
It is pure corruption. We need to change the quarter century of one party rule in Olympia. We need change.
Posted by: AP on September 20, 2008 10:37 PMPaul - that's not what happened. The tribes contributed $650K to her campaign. Either that is a blatant lie or your memory is failing you. I tend to believe the former.
Posted by: KS on September 20, 2008 10:40 PMTo be blunt: you're an idiot. Rossi is NOT running those casino ads. Period. You're either a certifiable moron, or you're a proven liar - which is it?
What IS true is that, for a $650,000 campaign contribution, Gregiore gave up a $140 million income stream that the tribes - the ones who would pay the tax - volunteered. She turned down the revenue - even as she knows that there's a $3.2 billion deficit looming - so she could put a few hundred thousand into her re-election campaign.
So not only are you wrong on the source of the ad (no, it's NOT Rossi you buffoon) but completely ignore the central tenet of the ad: Gregoire took hundreds of thousands of dollars in payola to look the other way. That's called bribery or graft, but it's not called ethical.
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on September 20, 2008 10:41 PMOverall, I thought he seemed tentative, though he did improve over the course of the debate. For me, that's better than fist pumping harridan, but it might not be for everyone.
Posted by: Paula on September 20, 2008 10:51 PMSounds like 'didn't raise taxes'.
The WA bldg lobby is buying the Rossi campaign so he can 'turn down the revenue' from them. What's the difference.
and the tribes 'volunteered' to pay more taxes ...
yea right.
They must think people are really so stupid they cannot think for themselves. George Bush didn't raise ut gas taxes to the highest in the nation under the pretense that the Viaduct would fall down if we didn't raise them and then turn around and spend the money somewhere else!
Gregoire is a liar. This Democrat is voting Rossi.
Posted by: This Democrat is switching to Rossi! on September 21, 2008 12:17 AMSomebody needs to tell her that she is not running against George Bush.
Posted by: Independent Voter on September 21, 2008 05:39 AMDuffman: stepping up to what plate? Running for office? Not likely. There's no office I could feasibly run for, that I could take. I prefer to help other people who would well-represent my views, and I admire those who sacrifice themselves to do that.
Besides, with all my posts here on Sound Politics and elsewhere, I'd provide way too much fodder to my opponents. Perhaps I subconsciously write what I do so that I will never be tempted to run for office. :D
Posted by: pudge on September 21, 2008 07:20 AMI disagree. Paul is not a "misinformed Democrat", he is a radical apologist for untaxed tribal gambling. Read his own posting @ 33: "Sorry Rossi-hands off MY casino". *emphasis mine*
Now is the time for a toll booth at the entrance to every tribal casino in the state. You enter using public highways...you pay. Time to undo the damage done by Christine the Corrupt.
...and Paul, you're nothing but a lying sack.
Posted by: Saltherring on September 21, 2008 07:41 AMWhen Gregoire told us how she "feels our pain" with the price of gas (multiple times), I wanted to puke. It's her party that doesn't want to do anything about it, and she's the one who's raised the gas taxes in this state to one of the highest in the nation.
Posted by: Palouse on September 21, 2008 08:16 AM"We're looking at the possibility of maybe, probably having a deficit!"(but it's because of Bush and Rossi)
"Our jobless rate is rising outside of green-collar jobs in Eastern Washington!"!"(but it's because of Bush and Rossi)
Etc., Etc., Etc.
It appears that Gregoire just admitted that she only has the capability to lead when times are good and that she has no ability to handle leadership when times are rough - because, "Don't blame me, it's someone else's fault (Bush, Rossi, Locke, Chop, ....)"
Posted by: SouthernRoots on September 21, 2008 09:10 AMChristine Gregoire is 8 years older than I am. When she was growing up, assertiveness wasn't a trait most parents were trying to instill in their daughters. So these women entered the workforce (and Christine was a lawyer, not a field where you're likely to get ahead by playing the doormat) and compensated for a lack of natural assertiveness by becoming...agressive, angry (seeming), strident or fist pumping harridans. That's just my theory but I've seen it played out often enough to think it has at least a little truth to it. Kind of like Napoleon Syndrome, but for women. Hillary Clinton has it; Sarah Palin does not.
Posted by: Paula on September 21, 2008 09:38 AMHarpy is a good descriptor.
Posted by: Paula on September 21, 2008 11:41 AM