October 02, 2008
VP Debate Open Thread

Same deal as the Presidential debate, I'm watching the debate and want to pay attention to the visual aspect of the debate as well as the content. I'll offer thoughts afterward. Fire away in the comments in the meantime.

Posted by Eric Earling at October 02, 2008 06:09 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Palin seems to be holding her own pretty well at this Point (half hour in). I was worried that she might come across as shrill or out of her depth but that doesn't seem to be happening.

I don't understand why the moderator asks Palin about Bush's policies. Bush doesn't count here. Could it be a way to try and trip up Palin ala' Gibson? Or to make the McCain/Palin ticket "just like George Bush"?

Posted by: G Jiggy on October 2, 2008 06:44 PM
2. It's hilarious that Joe Biden keeps referring to himself in the 3rd person...

Palin sort of stumbles over her words somewhat like Bush...

Oh man, nice hit on looking backwards!

Posted by: David on October 2, 2008 06:44 PM
3. Scrappy Joe looks a little aggitated/angry.......6:55

Posted by: drakaba on October 2, 2008 06:46 PM
4. Just got home and started watching.

Governor Palin looks and sounds good.

But when I look at and listen to Joe Biden-- a guy who chronically misspeaks and comes off the total political boob everywhere he goes: No. Freaking. Way. If this is who the democrats consider to be the 'gravitas' on their ticket, they just aren't trying hard enough.

Posted by: Michele on October 2, 2008 06:48 PM
5. Palin is doing OK, but she is letting too many opportunities and challenges go by. She has a set of little speeches that she wants to get in. If she doesn't want to answer a question, she just ignores it and says she wants to talk about something else. Even worse, if Biden says something untrue, she doesn't really challenge him on the facts of it. She looks OK, but certainly isn't taking command. She may not lose any votes tonight, but she isn't gaining any.

Posted by: Hairy Buddah on October 2, 2008 06:49 PM
6. David, yes, that was a gut punch. I liked it. Boom, boom! Biden had nothing for it.

Posted by: G Jiggy on October 2, 2008 06:50 PM
7. Nice!!!! Hit him being an insider and not making any changes while in Washington... He's been there for 36 years!

Posted by: David on October 2, 2008 06:54 PM
8. Joe is a classic blowhard. I love it when he repeats a sentence and speaks slowly so us dimwited Americans will be able to understand.

All palin needed to do was show that she isn't the character Tina Fay plays, and she has done that in spades.

Posted by: Moondoggie on October 2, 2008 06:54 PM
9. Hairy Buddah, Biden is saying so much that is untrue, three people couldn't challenge it. Palin just laid another one about Biden's waffling on the war "voting for it before you voted against it . . .". I have noticed that Biden is raising his voice as he gets going on some subjects. It seems like he might be rattled a bit. She should use that looking back some more as Biden is getting into the Bush way-back machine again.

Posted by: G Jiggy on October 2, 2008 06:59 PM
10. You want visual? This is "deep".

NBC,PBS,and CBS all depicted Gwen Ifill's jacket as cerulean blue, while ABC depicted it as vivid chartreuse. TV set comparison revealed that only my basement set showed this anomaly. The set was operating in default color mode.

Note that I have perfect color vision as proven by my 100% score on Bausch and Laumb's "Pseudo Isochromatic Plates" test. This test was partly designed to detect military malingers.

My second observation. My basement set depicted Biden's teeth in a conceivable shade of near white. My other sets showed his teeth as whiter than his shirt.

My feelings about the debate: If was a character in "LOST", I would prefer to have Palin calling the shots in those first moments on the beach. Not McCain, Biden or Obama.

I have a Global Warming interest. I think McCain's dumb position on GW caused Palin to fumble in her response to Gwen's question on that one. How could Palin intelligently support her co-ticket candidate? A man who co-authored the McCain Lieberman bill.

Posted by: Bart Cannon on October 2, 2008 07:00 PM
11. She just got McCain with the "There you go again looking back . . " and Biden started laughing. He knew he had been had. That move by her may have taken away a large part of Biden's ammo as one of their biggest weapons is "He's just like George Bush."

Posted by: G Jiggy on October 2, 2008 07:04 PM
12. Scrappy (Amtrak) Joe at Home Depot.....PUH LEASE.

Posted by: drakaba on October 2, 2008 07:05 PM
13. Old Joe was choked up talking about palin's DS baby....... Like he really cared...

She came back with no emotion, and slammed him, he couldn't shake her up !!!

Posted by: Chris N on October 2, 2008 07:12 PM
14. "Even worse, if Biden says something untrue, she doesn't really challenge him on the facts of it."

This really isn't the venue to ask to rerun the clip or have the press clipping in your pants pocket Hairy. Biden has lied on numerous occasions and just hopes nobody does the legwork to find out he lied.

Sadly, after 36 years of politicking, Biden realizes that what he says will be absorbed by the average turnip voter at home and it becomes instant fact in their brain so facts don't matter on the fly to an unethical cad like Biden. On pudges blog I posted a noted Biden lie bigger than the population of "new Pennsylvania" when he told Katie Couric on CBS News,:
"When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the princes of greed. He said, look, here's what happened." ~ "Clueless"Joe Biden

First of all, Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected in 1932 and the market crashed in 1929. Second of all, the first working television wasn't created until 1928. Again, the market crashed in 1929. How did FDR get on a device that nobody had at a time when he wasn't president?

He's obviously a dolt of the lowest order.

Posted by: Rick D. on October 2, 2008 07:14 PM
15. "There you go looking back again."

Taking a play from Ronald Reagan's playbook! Yea!

Posted by: Paula on October 2, 2008 07:15 PM
16. Biden is truly impressing me... but only because I had such low expectations of him in the first place=P I expected him to be a much bigger blowhard than he is.

Posted by: Mike H on October 2, 2008 07:18 PM
17. Video proof of couric interview Found here.

Posted by: Rick D. on October 2, 2008 07:19 PM
18. Gotta love some of the faces Biden is making until he sees the light on top of his camera flash. He looks like a baboon.

Posted by: Attila on October 2, 2008 07:19 PM
19. "...and I'VE always been proud to be an American..."

WOW! That's an upper cut I think! 7:31pm

Posted by: drakaba on October 2, 2008 07:22 PM
20. Ugh. Listened to it on 97.3fm and although I had great hopes for Palin, I've got to say she annoys the hell out of me.

Posted by: Andrew Brown on October 2, 2008 07:28 PM
21. Palin won the debate.

The proof?

Tom Brokaw stated that this was not the debate that mattered.

Posted by: Bart Cannon on October 2, 2008 07:29 PM
22. Andrew Brown: they've invented the T.V. you know. The visual is half the context of the debate.

Posted by: Rick D. on October 2, 2008 07:36 PM
23. I'm no fan of McCain and Palin, but I'll agree that Palin did much better than expectations said she would, and did herself some favors. But this didn't seem like a game-changing debate any more than the first presidential debate was.

Palin and Biden both clearly had their talking points that they wanted to make, and both of them ignored the actual question when they preferred to switch to their talking points.

Palin may have done this a tad more than Biden, for example on the question about the "conventional wisdom" view of each candidate's Achilles heel vs. what the candidate him/herself viewed as their Achilles heel, and on the question about whether each candidate had changed their opinion on some issue in response to changing conditions. In each of these cases Biden answered the question that was asked, while Palin veered off into talking points. I'm not sure if this is because she didn't understand the question, or if it's just that she didn't want to answer it. But each of them avoided questions they didn't want to answer.

@6: Biden wasn't tearing up over Palin's baby. He was tearing up over his wife and young daughter, who were killed in a car accident. Biden has been a single father for years.

Palin did try to score with the "looking back" comments, though it sounded a little forced and rehearsed the second time she used it. CNN's audience reaction meter says that Biden's response "past is prolog" scored some points.

@14: The FDR comment was a gaffe, no doubt, but not quite as bad as some people make out. FDR became president in 1932, but it was FDR's New Deal that pumped a lot of money into the economy and boosted employment, and that is generally credited for lifting the country out of the Great Depression. And FDR did, in fact, go on the RADIO quite frequently and explain what happened and why the New Deal was necessary.

Listening to CNN interview a panel of undecided Ohio voters (evenly distributed between Republicans, Democrats, and independents) is providing some interesting audience reactions.

Posted by: Prometheus on October 2, 2008 07:38 PM
24. I almost coughed up a lung when Biden was insistent that Cheney should realize, everyone should realize, that Article I of the Constitution defines the job of the Vice President.

(Pssst: it's Article II.)

Posted by: pudge on October 2, 2008 07:39 PM
25. (Oh, and I know that Article I mentions the Vice President, but Biden explicitly was talking about defining the Executive branch.)

Posted by: pudge on October 2, 2008 07:41 PM
26. prometheus
WWII is what got America out of the depression.lets talk about the bosniacks as biden said.PALIN ROCKS

Posted by: jtm371 on October 2, 2008 07:42 PM
27. Rick D @ 22 - It's illegal to have a TV in your car visible to the driver :)

Posted by: Andrew Brown on October 2, 2008 07:43 PM
28. Regardless of that, Pudge, I don't think Palin did the ticket any good by adopting Cheney's view of the vice presidency. Cheney is remarkably unpopular among independent voters. Biden scored with them when he said bluntly that Cheney was the most dangerous vice president in years.

Whether or not YOU agree, and whether or not you agree with Cheney's position that the Office of the Vice President isn't governed by the rules of the Executive Branch or his views on the powers or the executive in general, that's a point that's going to resonate with a lot of undecided voters. Palin put her foot in it with that answer.

Posted by: Prometheus on October 2, 2008 07:44 PM
29. Fact Check on ABC, yes ABC, just nailed Biden for lying about a tax bill he alleged McCain voted for to raise taxes on those earning over $42k. McCain was campaigning and didn't vote on the bill at all. The guy even suggested that it was likely McCain would have voted the other way.

Mistake, or typical attempt by a Democrat to misrepresent?

How does a Republican in a national debate, after years of liberal media building the foundation behind leftist lies, like man-made Global Warming, deny it? Was it a good strategy for Palin to avoid the argument with Biden, citing the same Democrat and liberal media lies about who was at fault in creating this financial crisis? I would have challenged the lies, but then I would have lost the debate.

Questionable question of the night from Ifill. Whether rights should be extended to same-sex partners, and not whether the candidates support same-sex marriage? Two entirely different questions, and I'm thrilled that Palin knocked it out of the park, turned it to the real underlying question about marriage, and that she appeared to lead Biden to the same conclusion.

Posted by: Reality on October 2, 2008 07:45 PM
30. @ 23 ~ Dan Quayle got daily grief for 20 years for having a kid add an "e" at the end of a word that was misspelled on the card he was given by that childs educator. Talk about not as bad as people make it out.

Either Biden lied and knew it wasn't the truth or was clearly ignorant of the facts yet stated it as if it were in fact, a "Fact". Classic D.C. politician since 1972.....but, but, I thought Obama was the "change" agent?

Posted by: Rick D. on October 2, 2008 07:49 PM
31. Prometheus@28, Palin loses no points for sticking up for Cheney or the Constitution. Only points lost were already lost on the folks who bought into the Democrat's portrayal of Cheney long ago.

I think all anti-Bush Americans would do themselves a favor by watching Karl Rove a bit on Fox News. I think even his harshest critics, those who've bought into all the hate spewed against Rove, Cheney, and others for 8 years, would be surprised to see the man they've been taught by the left to hate. If Rove isn't the monster he's been portrayed as, just maybe Cheney isn't the monster either.

Of course, changing of deep-seated hatred fueled by MoveOn and extremist sources, including mainstream coverage and distortion, would be difficult for anyone to overcome. I've yet to know a liberal myself capable of this sort of change.

Posted by: Reality on October 2, 2008 07:56 PM
32. Seems like Sarah did better than the lieing lemmings of the MSM predicted. Biden wasn't bad, except he played fast and loose with the facts on a number of occasions and Palin called him on it a few times. Jake Tapper, ABC just told of one of them.

Well, Duff and Puget Sound - there is probably some life in this race as it turns toward the home stretch. There is still a chance that the Clintons may get their wish after all when McCain and Palin win.

Those who insulted the intelligence and competence of Sarah Palin can go choke on their own vomit !

Posted by: KS on October 2, 2008 07:57 PM
33. jtm371 @ 26: WWII definitely played a big role in economic recovery, but most economists agree that the New Deal began the recovery.

And "Bosniac" is the term for Bosnian Muslims. If you look at the the Dayton peace accord and the Constitution of Bosnia and Herzegovina, it says

"Bosniacs, Croats, and Serbs, as constituent peoples (along with Others), and citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina hereby determine that the Constitution of Bosnia and Herzegovina is as follows:"

Biden's use of the term is technically correct, and reflects his knowledge of the situation there.

Posted by: Prometheus on October 2, 2008 08:16 PM
34. I missed the first 45 minutes and listened in the car on the way home. I must say that Palin looks as good on the radio as she does on TV.

Posted by: formermoonbat on October 2, 2008 08:16 PM
35. I heard someone suggest this morning that Sarah Palin should have brought a mock-up copy of Gwen Ifill's book and asked her to sign it. Of course the press would have said it was a childish prank and reamed her, but it almost would have been worth it.

It's a joke that Ifill, who stands to make a ton in extra royalties if Obama wins, is allowed to continue as debate moderator.

Posted by: russell garrard on October 2, 2008 08:49 PM
36. @32: Those who insulted the intelligence and competence of Sarah Palin can go choke on their own vomit !

I think that those who insulted the intelligence and competence of Sarah Palin can go and pat themselves on the back for getting it right.

Posted by: demo kid on October 2, 2008 08:49 PM
37. prometheus
i guess we will agree to disagree i'm not a fan of the new deal.i can find economists that would tell you the new deal was a bust.just like the pork laden bail out give away.i stand corrected if that is the correct term i think biden would have been better off saying Bosnians.

Posted by: jtm371 on October 2, 2008 08:50 PM
38. @36 - "I think that those who insulted the intelligence and competence of Sarah Palin can go and pat themselves on the back for getting it right."

I think those of you who think that way need to take a deep long look at yourselves in the mirror and question your own intelligence. Partisanship rules...

Joe Biden had command of information his facts which were not always the real facts and a good presence. He is a better debater than Hussein. Sarah Palin has moved up to speed in a short period of time and held her own against Biden for the most part and got in some good rebuttals.

Posted by: KS on October 2, 2008 09:02 PM
39. Gwen Ifill surprised me. She acted as a professional and provided interesting if not always the same opportunity for both. I though her questions were thoughtful AND personal. In as much as I led a charge about her bias, I'm loathe to admit it she did a pretty good and fair job.

Biden was making some pretty weird faces and smirks... I suspect to his wife and family in the crowd... until he saw the camera close in on him. He has his strengths and they were evident.

He got a bit excited on a few comments and he swallowed it with great difficulty, but swallow it he did.

Sarah connected with people.
She had a couple great shots against Biden, particularly using HIS words against Obama. She really didn't let him get away with too much.

AND, she got a great shot in against Gibson and Couric referreing to editinig and her preference of speaking directly to the people. Some talking head suggested she invite 'Say it ain't so Joe' to a town hall debate twice a week until election day. I would love that!

No heads exploded tonight, but lots of renewed energy for the McCain supporters.

Posted by: Ragnar Danneskjold on October 2, 2008 09:13 PM
40. @38: The one thing that I'll give you is that if Palin knew anything, she'd be a force to be reckoned with. However, for all of the talk of Obama being an empty suit, Palin simply has no substance whatsoever. She was like a walking collection of talking points tonight. Delivered well, yes, but not delivered with any real sense that she even knew what they meant.

Posted by: demo kid on October 2, 2008 10:11 PM
41. Why is she so nice to democrats? When asked whose fault was the crisis, she didn't pick up on the McCain ad that said that Bush and McCain complained long before Obama did, and proposed controls for Freddie & Fannie that were shot down by Democrats who said there was no crisis. I think she held her own, but she should have been prepared to leave Biden in shreds.

Posted by: soarthurhu on October 2, 2008 10:58 PM
42. Prometheus says "...Biden has been a single father for years."

Biden was a single father for a few years, but he got remarried in 1977, after his first wife's death (and the death of his 1-yr old daughter) in December of 1972. So, no, he hasn't been a single father for over 30 years...

Posted by: Bill H on October 3, 2008 07:54 AM
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