No townhall for Big Jim. He won't face his voters. He is holding an "online meeting" Wednesday at noon.
Leave your question, then see which ones he takes.
Correction from his web site:
On Monday, August 31, Rep. McDermott will host a telephone town hall from 7:00 - 8:00 p.m. Pacific. Tens of thousands of 7th District constituents will be called over the weekend with a taped message recorded by Jim to alert them to the event. Then, on Monday, just prior to 7:00 p.m. start time, tens of thousands of constituents will be called inviting them to stay on the line to hear Jim talk about the issue and his perspective live. During the call, people will be able to ask questions.So visible signs of opposition will not be allowed. But don't blame McDermott; it's the U of W's fault.The advantage of a telephone town hall is that the format better fits a busy lifestyle that otherwise would prevent someone from attending a meeting in person, away from their home. Research suggests many more people want to be involved and this is one way of facilitating participation. However, Rep. McDermott always has conducted in-person town hall meetings and this time is no different.
On Tuesday, September 1, Rep. McDermott will host a town hall meeting from 7:00 - 8:30 p.m. Pacific at the University of Washington, Meany Hall. Doors will open at 6:15 p.m. and seating will be on a first come basis. Meany Hall can accommodate 1,200 people, with additional capacity just outside the auditorium, if necessary. The site was selected because of its large capacity, readily available parking and mass transit options. According to the University, placards, posters, signs, food and beverages are not allowed in Meany Hall.
Cross-posted at Economic Freedom.
I am turning off comments. It's been three days. No one is on-topic.
Posted by Ron Hebron at August 26, 2009 06:30 AM | Email ThisRepresentative Jim McDermott (CD7)
Tuesday, September 1, 7:00pm � 8:30pm (Doors open at 6:15pm)
University of Washington, Meany Hall
Meany Hall Box 351150 Seattle, WA 98195
Yes it will! Sadly, it means McDimwitt will be elected with 79% of the vote, rather than his usual 80%...
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on August 26, 2009 08:37 AMOr could it be that even the Times is providing censorship by not allowing "appropriate" questions?
Posted by: FurryOldGuyJeans on August 26, 2009 10:09 AMPlus, he "faces his voters" (all of them) every two years.
Amazing what you leave out of your posts, Ron...
Posted by: scottd on August 26, 2009 10:33 AMCheck his web page at house.gov -- it lists all townhall and phone conference events including the online conference Ron posted AND the in-person event you noted plus an open teleconference. Ron just "forgot" to mention the latter two.
Posted by: scottd on August 26, 2009 10:41 AM"Dear XXXXXXX:
Thank you for writing me about the need for health care reform. I appreciate the time you took to write on this most important issue. As you know, our current system of health care coverage is miserably inadequate, leaving millions of Americans without an affordable way to get the coverage and the care they need. I have advocated a system of universal, guaranteed health insurance since 1972, when I made my first speech about it in the Washington State Legislature. Here in Congress, I have introduced HR1200, the American Health Security Act, every session since the 103rd Congress.
More and more families face increasing financial burdens as their premium contributions to employer-sponsored insurance increase sharply. Others are losing their coverage entirely as jobs are changed or lost. When a family member suffers serious illness or injury, many families go bankrupt trying to ensure their loved one receives the care he or she needs. I believe all Americans should have the certainty of comprehensive coverage and appropriate care. While I am disappointed with the health care reform parameters established by President Obama, especially his statement that a single payer system of coverage would not be on the table, I do think it is crucial that the Congress take action this year to enact substantive reforms of our health care system.
H.R. 3200, the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009, was recently reported out of the House Committee on Ways and Means, of which I am a senior member. Under the legislation, all insurance plans offered to American consumers are required to provide their enrollees a certain minimum level of benefits. I am especially concerned that this package include generous coverage of women's and children's health needs. The legislation also prohibits insurance companies from denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, ensures that all plans are subject to guaranteed issue and renewability, and eliminates lifetime benefit caps. These insurance market reforms are long overdue, but they will not resolve all of the accessibility problems in our system. It is also essential that we include in the reform structure a strong public option: a coverage plan offered by the government to provide individuals and families with an attractive and affordable alternative to private insurance products. The public option must be a non-negotiable component of this health care reform effort.
Please be assured that as this bill moves forward, I will strongly oppose any efforts to weaken the public option. America's private insurance plans have long dominated the insurance marketplace, with very unsatisfactory results; millions of Americans are uninsured or underinsured, and millions more are finding that they simply cannot afford the ever-increasing costs of the coverage they have. These problems will not go away; on the contrary, they are worsening steadily. We simply must make significant changes in our health care system, and those changes must include a strong public plan of coverage.
Thank you again for your thoughtful comments. I hope you will continue to share your views with me.
Sincerely,
Jim McDermott
Member of Congress"
Every doctor I have talked to tells me malpractice insurance is a huge cost driver. However in 1200+ pages of this legislation, there is NOTHING on torte reform- for which there is bipartisan support.
Similarly, proponents of this legislation claim they want to increase competition among insurance providers but have won't enable insurance providers the basic ability to jump state lines with offerings, but instead have jumped directly to having federal the federal government get into the insurance business.
Part a- Please explain to us why the only solutions you are proposing involve huge power grabs by the federal government, as opposed to removing obstacles for the private sector to provide better services.
Part b- If the insurance companies being demonized are making such obscene profits, can you explain why investors aren't tripping over each other to go start private health insurance? I have some money- I'd like in on that action.
Posted by: Andy on August 26, 2009 11:38 AMWay to go Michelle Malkin...busting this fat lier before he opens his mouth!!!
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/26/obamacare-for-illegal-aliens-revisited/
Posted by: Andy on August 26, 2009 12:46 PM"McD's holding an online forum today, a teleconference next Monday, and an open (in person) town hall on Sept 1."
Any bets on whether McDipshit's so-called "open (in person) town hall" meeting will be open and in person?
No one left anything out.
Petty criminal punks like him slink around in the dark but McDipshit won't face his voters unless he is absolutely assured it will involve no muss-no fuss.
and wtf is torte reform? i'll take my linzertorte the traditional way, thank you very much!
Posted by: mike on August 26, 2009 08:54 PMwhy is it john's job to fact check your oversights? if you had bothered to check jim's website you'd find it. 2 seconds via google, but i guess being a partisan liar is more important to you than telling the truth...
Posted by: mike on August 26, 2009 09:20 PMthank you for proving my point. it's not my job to do your work. if you really don't care and aren't honest enough for the truth, well, that explains a lot about your writings on this site. it's either that or searching on the web is just too difficult for you...
Posted by: mike on August 26, 2009 09:26 PMi just wasn't sure what torte reform was.
most medical malpractice lawsuits are not frivlous. get your facts right.
the right doesn't have a lock on the truth, these days furthest thing from it. but you are welcome to believe whatever you want, KDS, wrong as that belief may be...
Posted by: mike on August 26, 2009 09:31 PMMy facts are correct. What is your source of misinformation ? Are you a trial lawyer ?
I am an independent and you are a liberal progressive and seem economically challenged, until you can demonstrate otherwise. I choose to believe the truth. Your attitude is appalling.
How come the gov can't run C4C, so you think they should do health care? Medicare has a good program for rehab at home.....but jimmy boy voted to cut $54m in funding for it. Hmm that sounds like a great move.
Hey is Obambam's new Czar going to let me keep typing? Probably not. Union thugs? ACORN? Where is RICO? Holder you have criminals in your own house. Clean that up. Jackass!
Posted by: Dengle on August 26, 2009 09:50 PMharvard school of public health/harvard risk mgmt foundation: 3% of lawsuits had zero injury (without merit). of the 37% of lawsuits lacking sufficient evidence, 3/4 were dismissed. additionally, nearly 97% of all lawsuits involved death or severe disability. published in NEJM in 2006
further studies comparing malpractice rates in states that have enacted tort reform show that these reforms had little to no effect.
additionally, there are almost no frivolous lawsuits in medical malpractice, there are those with merit, and those without.
so keep on believing what your master tells you too... you are as independent as glenn beck says you are, right old chap? i know reality is a little hard for you these days.
Posted by: mike on August 26, 2009 10:19 PMhttp://www.house.gov/mcdermott/
Posted by: John Jensen on August 26, 2009 10:34 PMWhy were 3/4 of them dismissed ? Hmm.. sounds like they were frivolous. More correctly, I meant to say either frivolous or excessive. What does NEJM stand for ? Once again, are you a trial lawyer ?
"further studies comparing malpractice rates in states that have enacted tort reform show that these reforms had little to no effect."
I dispute those results, which sound like propaganda from the American Trial Lawyers Assn. Why do are a number of doctors required to pay $200K malpractice insurance annually ?
"additionally, there are almost no frivolous lawsuits in medical malpractice, there are those with merit, and those without."
If 3/4 of the lawsuits are dismissed (if that is indeed the correct percentage), that apparently contradicts your opinion above.
"you are as independent as glenn beck says you are, right old chap? i know reality is a little hard for you these days."
Funny that your ilk is unable to refute to underpinnings of this administration. I understand reality too well and BTW - it sucks brother. So continue to be smug with your statist beliefs. Thanks for exposing who your really are.
I still chuckle at the old joke, "What's 10,000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?" .....A good start!
Posted by: Saltherring on August 27, 2009 07:08 AMThis is a sloppy blog you wrote
Yeah, having to post a question on the Seattle Times Noon Wed Aug-26th is goofy. It should be used to supplement a face to face Town Hall Meeting.
Ditto the conference call 7pm Mon Aug-31st.
Your whinning post should be directed to where are Jim McDermott's other 2 Town Hall Meetings?
Love him or hate him, Jay Inslee is having meetings, including one at Memorial Field in Everett.
Kathy McMorris Rodgers is having meetings in the Spokane area.
Adam Smith had a town hall in Lakewood.
Brian Baird and Norm Dicks have reversed themselves and are having meetings from Olympia to Vancouver and Tacoma to Port Townsend, respectively.
Washington State Respresentatives and Legislatures are having meetings from Kent to Bellingham on healthcare.
A better use of your whinning would be Dave Reichert.
Give it a break
Posted by: Stop Your Whinning on August 27, 2009 07:19 AMIlliterate, dimwitted troll...
Posted by: Saltherring on August 27, 2009 07:27 AMNEJM is the new england journal of medicine.
97% of cases involved death or injury. this does not meet the requirements of frivolous litigation. there aren't many lawyers taking claims against doctors where nothing is there, and the few that try are tossed out of court. settling out of court is a different matter altogethor (one that usually implies some error on the doctor)
I dispute those results, which sound like propaganda from the American Trial Lawyers Assn.
spoken like true moderate. seriously, you're a clown. reality has no merit in your eyes, does it?
If 3/4 of the lawsuits are dismissed (if that is indeed the correct percentage), that apparently contradicts your opinion above.
many lawsuits are dismissed in court - it doesn't mean they are frivolous, it just means they are without merit - i know this is a hard concept for you to understand. but if you try, it's really not that hard.
again, only 3% of cases were frivolous. 3/4 of the suits aren't dismissed, clown. 37% of the suits are lacking evidence (and again, this is not an indication of frivolous litigation, get that around your empty, dimwitted skull) of that 37%, 3/4 are dismissed. that is 28% of all suits studied. hardly contradicts my above statement, unless you don't even understand what a contradiction is (and then, i can understand why you are always so confused).
Funny that your ilk is unable to refute to underpinnings of this administration. I understand reality too well and BTW - it sucks brother. So continue to be smug with your statist beliefs. Thanks for exposing who your really are.
my ilk (funny, you seem to think this term is derogatory, but by ilk, i take it you mean class: i.e. americans)
reality doesn't suck - especially for americans, we've got it pretty good on this blue-green ball. if you think we don't, i advise travelling to see what suffering, oppression and a crappy reality really look like.
nothing wrong w/ believing that social democracy is a much superior and humane form of goverment than the anti-humane individualistic BS spouted by the right. proudly honed during my time overseas in the service.
Posted by: mike on August 27, 2009 08:29 AMIf only trial lawyers wore capes.
If only we had a huge government run program to save us from people selling goods and services.
Posted by: Andy on August 27, 2009 09:05 AMsettling out of court is a different matter altogethor (one that usually implies some error on the doctor)
Your implication is completely wrong. When I had a business in WA, I settled several times out of court, because it was considerably cheaper than defending myself. At a minimum, it would cost $15-$20K to go to court for a simple matter, and often the "plaintiff" had no assets, meaning a countersuit was worthless.
It was simply cheaper and easier to just agree to a nominal $2500-$5000 rather than go through the time and cost of a lawsuit.
Do not discount the costs associated with defending yourself; the plaintiff's discovery motions alone can cost thousands of dollars in legal and financial fees.
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on August 27, 2009 09:24 AMThere is no disagreement with Dems. Debate is not tolerated. Consensus, their consensus, is all they need to press on.
Posted by: Jeff B. on August 27, 2009 10:20 AMIf you would have read on, I questioned the 3/4 number - BTW - I call 28% is a significant number - you are good at cherry picking. Your response is typical of a repugnant asshat.
"my ilk (funny, you seem to think this term is derogatory, but by ilk, i take it you mean class: i.e. americans)"
You don't have much class, dude. By ilk, I met statists/ neo-communists like yourself - no more, no less. I would not insult others by classifying a majority of Americans as such.
"reality doesn't suck - especially for americans, we've got it pretty good on this blue-green ball. if you think we don't, i advise travelling to see what suffering, oppression and a crappy reality really look like."
Don't go lecturing me on how rough the rest of the world is - I know that, clown. Does that mean we should be more oppressed like them ? NO way, but this is what the Administration is trying to do to anyone who disagrees with their viewpoint.
And why does today's Democratic party embrace the elitists and welfare state and throw the middle class under the bus ? We need to be more careful with our foreign policy and also pull out of Afghanisgtan right after we leave Iraq. On top or all the other ways they are willfully killing our economy, this administration is as wrong about war as the last one.
I could have sworn that it was the left that:
A- advocates unfettered abortion up to and including subsidizing eugenics abroad (1st executive order by Obama)
B- advocates unfettered assisted suicide for any and all who "just can go on" whether from a relationship break-up in H.S. to quality of life determination.
C- advocates the formation of "death panels" to be implemented into a 'healthcare bill' so that those who've stopped contributing and are merely taking up time, space and oxygen should be shown how to 'transition', ready or not, into the next life.
Just as I thought. it's the left that is "anti-humane individualists". But by all means mike, continue your delusions to the contrary.
Posted by: Rick D. on August 27, 2009 12:07 PMThe instructive question at this point would be, what portion of the overall spending on health care in the US is due to the malpractice category?
The proponents of so-called health care reform are always claiming that the US spends more on health care (as a percentage of GDP) than do the single-payer/nationalized health care nations.
Another instructive question would be, how do those other nations handle the medical malpractice issue?
Posted by: ewaggin on August 27, 2009 12:32 PMWho would that be ?
Posted by: KDS on August 27, 2009 06:56 PMi realize statistics are hard for you to grasp.
28% of cases are dismissed. these aren't frivolous suits, the majority of these suits are brought forth by people who have been injured (or brought by relatives of the deceased). just because the ruling isn't in their favor doesn't mean they weren't injured. or didn't die from a doctor's mistake. i can see why this is hard for you to follow, though.
i'm not lecturing you, but your chicken little routine is pathetic and lame. put your life in perspective. your complaints are laughable and baseless (hey, kind alike the dwindling republican party!). that you think the administration is trying to oppress us (especially after the last 8 years) is even more laughable. your world view is seriously distorted. i'm middle class, i am not being thrown under the bus. none of my middle class neighbors have been thrown under the bus.
killing the economy.
man, your thoughts on this are so far from wrong it's (again) hilarious. thanks for providing me w/ such ridiculously hilarious entertainment.
rick d.
not only are you lying, but you are also an idiot. the 'left' doesn't advocate for unfettered abortion. obama's not pushing it and for most of us that are pro-choice, which doesn't mean pro abortion. regardless. dare you against war, the death penalty and universal health care? then obviously, you really aren't pro-life, now are you. in fact, you are devotedly anti-life. but i can see why you think i'm delusional. your understanding of democratic platforms is as twisted as beck tells you it is. classy.
michele, would that be the ex-marine receiving gov't assistance? the one coached on what to say? the one actually dishonoring veterans that fought nazis by comparing pelosi to a nazi? what a class act. are republicans really so stupid that they don't realize the nazi's were anti-leftist? they killed union leaders, jailed gays and communists and hated jews. about as right as you can get, clowns. his whole spiel was on 'things he heard' meaning, the guy can't actually read for himself. what's scary is that he actually has kids. i really feel for them...
Posted by: mike on August 27, 2009 07:52 PMobama's not pushing it and most of us that are pro-choice, aren't necessarily pro abortion. regardless, are you against war, etc.
Posted by: mike on August 27, 2009 07:58 PM"your complaints are laughable and baseless (hey, kind alike the dwindling republican party!)
that you think the administration is trying to oppress us (especially after the last 8 years) is even more laughable."
Yes, the last 8 years were bad - so your contention is off of the table, but the first 7 months is worse. You are either naive or you are a liar about oppression by the current Administration. Have you heard of or read "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky ? That is the playbook for your band of neo-coms.
" your world view is seriously distorted. i'm middle class, i am not being thrown under the bus. none of my middle class neighbors have been thrown under the bus."
Not yet and we will fight to ensure that it doesn't happen. I challenge you to check the statistics of what % of citizens are middle class now vs. 1990 - if you do, kindly supply your source.
"the 'left' doesn't advocate for unfettered abortion."
Evidently, you are full of crap and have not read HR 3200, because that is what it legislates - written by the left.
Posted by: KDS on August 27, 2009 08:29 PMWe already know that they will not sign on to any of the Healthcare legislation being proposed.
Posted by: KDS on August 27, 2009 09:27 PMso which is it, the middle class has been thrown under the bus, or will be? who has comprehension issues here?
and which middle class? charlie gibson's middle class or the economic average?
poverty rates increased through the 80s, went down in the 90s, and by 2006 had climbed to over 12% (census)
in that same period, incomes went down for everyone making under $75k by about 3%, but went up 7% for those making over $75k.
and HR 3200, or any other healthcare variants proposed are advocating unfettered abortion. more lies, kds? really?
and a lot of folks are eligible for the same healthcare congress has - they're called federal employees. they're on FEHBP and there are some 8 million employees (nearly 3% of the country, btw). the percentages covered are about the same as medicare, i think.
Posted by: mike on August 27, 2009 09:52 PMIs that why his first executive order was to export eugenics abroad?
regardless, are you against war, etc.
War in general? yes. War to protect our homeland from international terrorists whose goal is to murder your family in the streets? No.
Question mikey, should we have entered WW2? If you say yes, you are as pro-war as I am.
Posted by: Rick D. on August 28, 2009 05:30 AMAs much as I can gather from "mike's" inane rantings (see above), it appears he is attempting to equate war, the death penalty and for some reason health care (?) with abortion? Can't say I grasp his connection to healthcare, but to equate abortion, which is abject murder, to the death penalty (which is justice) is insane. This is all too typical of this moral relativist generation, who promote the butchery of innocents (calling it choice) while defending the rights of cold-blooded killers. Tell me, "mike", what choice did the victims of death-row killers get?
And as to war, "mike" would probably advocate mordering 50 million more unborn innocents before he grew the nuts to confront the likes of Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo or Saddam Hussein.
It is no wonder our nation is being governed by scum like Obama, Pelosi, Frank, Reid, etc., when dimwits like "mike" run amongst us.
Posted by: Saltherring on August 28, 2009 06:22 AMTo all - Also watch Glenn Beck today. It has been the highest viewed cable news show most of this week. It has exposed the inner circle of the Obama Administration and the czars, the expansion of Americorps all this week. Today will be the Finale.
Posted by: KDS on August 28, 2009 06:54 AMspoken like a true draft dodger.
look folks, i know you don't get facts, i get that. it's some short circuit in your brain.
abortion is not illegal. it's also not murder. get that through your pea-sized brain.
kds,
why would i waste my time watching a show put on by a man who's intent is to demonize those who disagree with him and lie and mislead to those who can't think for themselves? really, the guy is a bigot. his advertisers are leaving by the boatload.
that you think americorps is a bad thing goes directly to my point: having college kids help out the boy scouts, habitat for humanity, teach for america, boys and girls club, ymca is a good thing. you morons are so against helping people, you think an organisation designed to perform community service is a bad thing. this is what i'm talking about - you all have become amazingly ignorant. it's really pathetic and sad, the state the conservative party is in.
Posted by: mike on August 28, 2009 08:13 AMI couldn't agree more, mike. Why do you listen to guys like Keith Olbermann that outright calls the president a fascist on his failed PMSNBC show? For the unthinking indeed.
Posted by: Rick D. on August 28, 2009 08:30 AMLike the typical leftist, you brand those who disagree as racists, uneducated or draft dodgers. For your information I enlisted (no draft) in the U.S. Army in 1971 but was rejected due to a previous hip injury. So I chose serve my country as a civilian, retiring with 33 years service as a mechanical engineer/program manager for the Department of Defense.
As for your lack of common decency and morals, you will indeed answer for those as well as for your smug indignation, just as Ted Kennedy is presenty answering for his.
Posted by: Saltherring on August 28, 2009 08:40 AM
You would think that after failing so miserably to either propagandize us or to insult us he would get discouraged but no, he may be a dullard, but he is a persistent dullard!
Posted by: Alphabet Soup on August 28, 2009 08:47 AMmike is ptototypical of today's leftist. Although he most certainly lacks the perspective and intellect to engage points made by Glenn Beck and his supporters, where he is most lacking is truth. Beck has truth and objectivity on his side and leftists can find no way to confront the points he makes or respond to the questions he asks....short of resorting to their usual tactic, lying.
Posted by: Saltherring on August 28, 2009 09:09 AMYou gotta deal, buddy.
That's a great idea. I would go along with that. In fact, if it were constitutional, I'd support the president immediately issuing an executive order achieving this.
Here's an alternative, too. This is the same thing, only it goes at it the other way. Let's immediately cancel all health coverage for US senators and representatives so that they're uninsured. This includes taking them out of medicare.
They are then free to find a health plan like anyone else in our "free market" system.
Deal?
[If we did that, we should set up a betting pool on how long it takes the GOP and blue dog Democrats to be in favor of a mandatory universal single payer system. I'd bet it would take all of about 2 weeks!]
Posted by: Torture Lawyer on August 28, 2009 09:16 AMIn general, the nations with single payer health systems have many fewer tort suits in general, and fewer lawyers, than in the USA. Part of the reason is that with all health costs being covered by the government, one doesn't need to sue, to get those paid for, and avoid banktruptcy or get your lifetime of care paid for, when you're rendered a paraplegic in a wheelchair due to someone else's negligence.
They also have two way loser pays rules in litigation, so the attorneys fees come out of the loser's pocket.
Most folks advocating tort reform here in the USA don't advocate that, instead they advocate one way deals like saying "ban all medical malpractice suits" (wether or not meritorious) or "just limit pain and suffefing damages to $250,000" -- leaving ins. cos. free to continue to mount the totally frivolous defense, with no penalty or consequence.
Salt, if you were rejected, you didn't enlist. You can only enlist if you qualify, so at best you attempted to enlist. But DOD work pays rather well and can be somewhat rewarding. Have you left an offering to the MIC gods.
I do not lack deceny. I do no t lack morals. I know the difference between right and wrong. conservatives, on the other hand, do not. Who will I be answering to? I don't believe god exists. But if there is, ted k. isn't 'answering' for anything, he's done more for the disenfranchised in this country than most. God would welcome him into his open arms, as he would you. Any real Christian would know that.
Ooh, I'm a dullard! I'm a dullard in ballard!
I have no cue cards, I am merely responding to the false allegations and mistruths of the right.
Glenn beck has truth and objectivity?!? These are two things you will not find on fox news. nor will you find honesty, integrity and principle. The right has misplaced all of these traits with greed, corruption, dishonesty and malfeasance. Beck is not an intellect, he's an anti-intellectual - a hero to the sheep and the blind. where's your collar, salt?
Then you're not doing your job. Besides, why aren't you out doing community service that Obama called on all American's to perform (especially his obedient minions that supported him). Isn't your time better served helping others? For a president you claim to support his vision? Are you an armchair activist, mike?
Posted by: Rick D. on August 28, 2009 09:55 AMalso, i've never claimed to support his 'vision' stop being such an idiot, rick.
If by armchair activist, you mean
volunteering @ foodbanks
working on food and clothing drives
Cleaning hiking trails
Assisting w/ school building in third world countries
Participating in habitat for humanity
Actively pushing for incorporation of greener city policies
Helping to get neighborhood funding for sprucing up streets/sidewalk
Assisting w/ restoration of natural habitats
Then yes, I guess that makes me an armchair activist.
Truth according to whom, mike? You? Obama? Keith Olbermann? Truth as in Obama's "green" czar is a self-admitted "black nationalist" and "communist"? Face it,mike, you've simply got a man-crush on the president (similar to DK, Ivan, tc and Mike Boy Scout). It's amusing to watch grown men react like wounded jr. high schoolers when confronted with the truth about the object of their adulation. pitiful.
So you lied in your earlier post when you said that you spend your time "debunking your BS or working"? Which is it, mike? You're all over the map again, please clarify.
Posted by: Rick D. on August 28, 2009 10:26 AMi don't get any information from olbermann, rick. stop being such a dolt.
volunteering is a form of work, rick. some people do it professionally. we do it when we have time outside of our normal paying jobs, or when we aren't working on the house or yard.
and again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with being an 'admitted black nationalist or communist' and to insinuate there is, is anti-american. are you an anti-american rick? or just a dbag?
Posted by: mike on August 28, 2009 10:32 AMHe begins his post by sticking his elitist nose in the air and informing us that he doesn't have a TV.
Then at the end of the post he rants about Glenn Beck and Fox News.
What does mike do in order to gain this wonderful knowledge of Fox News? Perhaps he hangs out in the homes of conservatives who have those disgusting televisions?
Nothing biased, angry and judgemental about these people is there?
Nothing predictable, either.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 28, 2009 10:38 AMI'll let that comment just speak to mike's particular mental affliction and/or lack of understanding about this country and the forefathers who founded it.
Your ignorance is very much on display today, mike. Take a bow.
Posted by: Rick D. on August 28, 2009 10:46 AMever go to a gym? they've got fox news on. when i used to work out on base (back in the day) all the channels were on fox news.
just because i don't have a tv doesn't mean i don't know what's going on around me. i never said tv's were disgusting, we just desire not to have one.
i do consulting work in the A/E/C industry.
Mental affliction? Lack of understanding about this country? Lack of understanding of the forefathers who founded it?
It is decidedly you who doesn't seem to understand any of these things. Rick, I'm honestly not surprised at your anti-intellectual and anti-american viewpoints.
I bet you haven't watched 15-minutes of Fox News. You are simply biased. Might do you good to expose yourself to the world that exists outside your insular liberal world.
I recommend a trip to Wenatchee.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 28, 2009 11:02 AMDon't confuse yourself with an intellect,mike. Because that glass slipper don't fit...
Posted by: Rick D. on August 28, 2009 11:04 AMAs for morals, you don't acknowledge God, yet you claim to know about right and wrong. Whose values do you ascribe to...your own?...sounds like relativism to me.
And how do you know God would welcome Ted Kennedy with "open arms". For one, I thought you didn't believe in God; and two, do you know that Ted repented for abandoning a young woman to die a horrible death in an overturned car...or how about the 50 million unborn children that were murdered on Ted's watch?
I have no idea who the "MIC gods" are. Perhaps another of your delusions.
And as for Ted's efforts on behalf of the "disenfranchised", I'd like to know what he has done besides hold the poor captive to hopelessly failed entitlement profgrams.
Posted by: Saltherring on August 28, 2009 11:23 AMmike claims he has done the following:
If by armchair activist, you mean
volunteering @ foodbanks
working on food and clothing drives
Cleaning hiking trails
Assisting w/ school building in third world countries
Participating in habitat for humanity
Actively pushing for incorporation of greener city policies
Helping to get neighborhood funding for sprucing up streets/sidewalk
Assisting w/ restoration of natural habitats
BTW, I have served in a third world country for two years, volunteered for cleaning up hiking trails and for Humanity for Humanity on a number of occasions and also foodbanks and feeding the homeless. I won't question the validity of your participation (I'll leave that to the viewers on this blog), but I can clearly see that your political rhetoric runs contradictory to the spirit of community service. Whether it was a punishment for a crime is another thing, which may explain your sour, sore loser, statist convictions.
Statists like yourself have a problem with the truth - it gets in their way, just as Mr. Obama has exhibited on a number of occasions in his 7 months in office.
If I understand what you're saying, those other nations are paying for the medical bills, but not for pain & suffering (which amount typically dwarfs the medical cost amount in US malpractice suits) or economic costs (i.e., loss of income, etc)?
If that is the case, wouldn't tort reform that eliminated pain & suffering awards bring the US into alignment with the other nations' practices on pain & suffering?
Posted by: ewaggin on August 28, 2009 12:15 PMInsular liberal world? Riiight. My wife and her family are all libertarians. Believe me, it's hardly insular.
Would that be the Wenatchee that went overwhelmingly (almost 2:1) for cantwell over mcgavick? Gore over bush? I don't see what you are getting at, I spend a lot of time in rural areas.
Rick:
Black nationalists are not the equivelant of the KKK, to insinuate they are is an awful, incredibly awful lie. Are you saying there is something inherently wrong with being proud of your race?!?
There is nothing anti-american about communism. You really don't understand the constitution at all, do you?
I never said I was an intellect. But you are the one that seems to like wearing slippers (and garters, dresses, pantyhose)
Saltyballs,
Earlier you said you were rejected, not discharged. Also, was there enlistment before 1973? I am asking because I honestly don't know. I do know we didn't switch to an all-volunteer army until then. You don't have to 'know god' to have morals. I was raised catholic.
And again, I said although I don't believe in god, if there is one (and that's a might big if), ted k. would be welcomed in heaven. Are you asking me if ted repented? That sentence makes no sense. There weren't 50 million 'unborn children' murdered on 'his watch' - a fetus is not a child, moron. I know you are anti-science, but you need to get the basics right. Republican leaders obviously don't care about ending abortion, or they wouldhave done it when they had the numbers. They use it as a wedge among sheeple, like yourself, to obtain power.
Your ignorance is astounding.
KDS:
Newsflash - fox news is not a balanced new network. They routinely push lies and false documents, they drum up fake outrage, they smear those they don't agree with and label repubs mired in corruption or scandal as dems. They are the pinnacle of unprofessional partisan hacks. Decency and honesty do not abound on fox news. This is why I don't watch it. did I say there was a conservative party? There is no liberal party either, according to your nonsense. But you are right, I said conservative party when meant conservative movement (or rather, retreat). My bad.
My 'politiccal rhetoric' is not anti-volunteer. My politics are about helping those who can't help themselves or need assistance. You seem to be the one ascribing to contradictory beliefs and politics. Surprised? I'm not.
I've never been arrested in my life, I've never even received a speeding ticket. I doubt I'll ever get one here because of the asinine drivers in the left lane doing 55. also, obama has been in office now for 8 months. Can you really not even count?!?
We should seek out the truth, unfortunately, the morons on the right seem to think they have a lock on the truth, when all they really have a lock on is misrepresenting reality and lying.
And for the record, average medical malpractice payouts in other countries w/ single payer tends to be higher. Chew on that, dbags.
Don't you think Obama should be honest with the American people and call Obamacare for what it is?
It's ROMNEYCARE!
That's why the Republicans here are so mad! You stole their socialized health care plan away from them. They want to be credited as the architects of socialized medicine.
So, please, give the Republican party the credit it deserves!
Please provide some specific examples mike.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 28, 2009 01:51 PMIf it was Romney and he was calling the same thing Romneycare, you would love it.
But the truth is OBAMACARE IS ROMNEYCARE.
You are not fighting against socialized medicine. You are fighting about what we are going to call socialized medicine.
You just hate Obama. And the only reason you hate him is because he isn't a member of the Republican party.
in just the last couple of years, fox has mislabeled mark sanford, mark foley, john mccain, spector (before he switched) and lieberman (after he left the dems to run as independent) as democrats. they confused conyers and jefferson.
we could go on all day. basically, whenever anything bad happens to a republican, fox labels them as democrat. when anything bad is said by a republican about republicans, fox labels them a democrat. willful. unprofessional. pathetic. but i can see why it's so appealing to people who can't think for themselves.
You are an absolute waste of time. I doubt I have ever met someone as ignorant as you who is as certain he knows everything. In fact , I read postings on many different blogs, and I'll have to say the SP trolls, across the board, are hands down the most stupid (ignorance is fixable, stupid is permanent) I've ever encountered. Good luck in the future, mike, you'll need it.
Posted by: Saltherring on August 28, 2009 02:34 PMYou just said:
"in just the last couple of years, fox has mislabeled mark sanford, mark foley, john mccain, spector (before he switched) and lieberman (after he left the dems to run as independent) as democrats. they confused conyers and jefferson."
This is what you said mike, (again), "They, (Fox), routinely push lies and false documents, they drum up fake outrage, they smear those they don't agree with and label repubs mired in corruption or scandal as dems."
Give some specific examples of "false documents", or creating "fake outrage", or smearing those Fox doesn't agree with.
Be specific. Give us dates, exact quotes, and who said them.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 28, 2009 02:34 PMMost conservatives believe Romney to be nothing but a RINO. And he would certainly have to be such to be elected governor of the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts. Socialism is socialism, regardless of the sponsoring party. Geo W. Bush lost favor with conservatives because he did not practice fiscal restraint on social programs, compiling deficits that were considered unsustainable at the time. Compared to Obama's deficits, Bushes were penny ante.
Posted by: Saltherring on August 28, 2009 02:44 PMGrazie mille. Feeling is mutual.i am not certain I know everything. I am certain the conservatives are some of the most hypocritical, ridiculously stubborn, and incredibly misguided bunch of fools I've ever encountered, though.
Bill,
I see you are you agreeing w/ me on the fact that fox intentionally and willfully mislabels politicians.
The teabaggers were manufactured outrage.
Most of the anti-healthcare reform nutjobs are manufactured protests - hell most of them are already enrolled government programs, (and apparently a lot of them don't even know where iraq is)
Manufactured stories: communists for kerry (pro-bush clowns) and kerry bragging he was a 'metrosexual'
Death panel meme is intentionally misleading. Aluminum tubes, birth certificate, etc.
Are you really so blind in your allegiance to your master, bill?
I think mike is in real danger, as he is obviously "rubber room" insane. His babblings make little or no sense. How can we help?
Posted by: Saltherring on August 28, 2009 03:02 PMThey most certainly are the equivelant. This is the united states of America. Not the United states of Black America, White America, Brown America, etc. It's the ignorant liberals with their need for hyphenation that has this country divided as it is, you just lack the intelligence to realize it.
There is nothing anti-american about communism.
Only a complete ignoramus would make such a statement. Infer from that what you'd like,mikey.
You really don't understand the constitution at all, do you?
I understand it much better than you understand what constitutes an American. That is without a doubt.
Posted by: Rick D. on August 28, 2009 03:28 PMThese people really are some of the most truly unpleasant people.
I went to our local "farmers market", here in beautiful Lake City yesterday just for fun after running some other errands.
There were the usual ridiculous high prices for so-called "organic" produce.
What I always notice at these markets is the plethora of folks who look incredibly unpleasant. Goteed skinny young men (you see them all over Seattle). Pinch-faced older women. All of them looking incredibly serious. I hardly saw any of them smiling. Seattle is filled with them. Walk by them and say "hi" and they look at you as if you were a martian. You don't get that kind of coldness in a conservative town.
It's one of the great ironies of modern history. In the 1960's leftist hippies rebelled against "uptight" society and preached love and happiness.
Look at them now.
Reading the rantings of our leftist contributors is merely confirming.
I have gotten to the point where I avoid leftists. I can't stand them.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 28, 2009 03:31 PMblack nationalists are not the equivalent of the kkk. to infer they are shows how little you know about the black nationalist movement. ignorant liberals divided this country? seriously, rick d(umb) you need help.
ironically, the sentence before you pan me for being an ignoramus on communism, you talk about the collective united states. who is the one lacking intelligence? obviously, you don't understand the constitution at all, or what constitutes an american. maybe this is why your world view is so cynical and skewed.
bill,
i dropped specifics. if you choose to ignore them and be blind to reality, that's your thing to deal with.
i'm not really sure what your deal against farmer's markets are - in our experience you get similar prices on some things, although a few things can be more. purchasing things 'in season' is one way to save costs (and get fresher produce)
regardless, you are supporting local businesses and your local economy. surely that's not a terrible thing. maybe if you spent some time in the farmer's markets downtown, you wouldn't see dejected people. we love going to the ballard/fremont/columbia city markets just to see everyone having fun, browsing the selections and enjoying themselves. i see you don't like skinny guys, is that cos you prefer bears? we don't see any of this coldness here in downtown seattle. maybe you see it because you walk around w/ a hideous me against the world i hate life look on your face, i'd ignore you too.
you avoid leftists? really? i bet you merely think you are. i bet that bear you shack up with is a heckuva lefty.
Not everyone reading this site comprehends the left.
Most of the country is starting to.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 28, 2009 04:17 PMIt's so funny because it's so true. Please pass this video around. It's not getting the circulation it deserves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvN7SwiD3xQ
Posted by: Steve on August 28, 2009 04:19 PMAs to farmer's markets, I'd guess I've been going to the Pike Place Market since before you were born. I know some of the longtime vendors there.
Nice try at deflecting mike.
You need to be able to back up the things you say about Fox News with specific quotations and you cannot do it.
It would not hurt you to look into your own prejudices a bit. And be honest with yourself.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 28, 2009 04:31 PM
bill, you know lots of vendors at pike place market - you realize the majority of people visiting pike place market are tourists, right?
and i didn't avoid specifics, i dropped specific mislabelings and stories. if you are too ignorant to bother to look into it, again, that's not my fault if you abhor the truth.
i'm beyond the point of being shocked that you dwell in a world if intentional ignorance and dishonesty.
Posted by: mike on August 28, 2009 04:44 PMso do you believe fox did or did not push those false memes and misleading labels? or do you refuse to face reality?
Posted by: mike on August 28, 2009 05:04 PMBeing challenged to present facts is a very uncomfortable thing for leftists.
You are used to spouting this stuff among your leftist friends or on leftist blogs. You all believe the same nonsense.
When you are challenged about your truly silly bias about Fox News you divert, you cannot come up with specifics, and you end up looking pretty silly.
Most leftists never change. There is something about the leftist mindset that makes people rigid, angry, and unable to admit that just perhaps they might be wrong.
Every see a leftist admit they've been mistaken? You won't.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 28, 2009 05:10 PMit's not a silly bias against fox news. it's a bias against misleading propoganda, lies and faux outrage.
that you are blind to this only further proves to me how ridiculous the conservative mindset is, and furhers my resolve to make sure they never take power again. thanks for that!
you've still yet to say whether or not you believe fox news did the things i 'claimed' - i doubt you'd even bother to check, reality and truth are all lies to you.
Posted by: mike on August 28, 2009 05:14 PMMost farmer's markets do not have organic produce. Getting organic certification from the UDSA is very expensive, and saying that you're organic without the certification is illegal.
I meet very pleasant people at my farmer's market on Broadway. I did political canvassing there (for light rail expansion) and met many, many nice and grateful people.
And many folks who go to farmer's markets aren't liberal. You need to get over your stereotypes.
Do you not find it the least bit ironic that you demand liberals are nasty, mean-spirited people? There's some disgraceful about grouping people based on a rough guess of their political leanings.
Posted by: John Jensen on August 28, 2009 05:35 PM-
You've been pretty nasty towards me at least. And we've never even met. Le me ask you... would you say the things you've said to me, and about my parents, to my face, or only digitally?
mike doesn't cite specifics because his game is to be a pathological liar. He was on the latest public board deriding the "qualifications" of Dave Reichert and Darcy Burner until I called him on Obama's empty record. His response? "most president's have no executive experience". Then claimed Bush Sr. and Gerald Ford didn't have any. He's a clown of the lowest order and really not worth a back and forth.
Metaphorically speaking, debating with him is akin to playing handball with the drapes ...
Posted by: Rick D. on August 28, 2009 05:49 PMIt is quite ironic:
That the same leftists who advocated free speech in the 60's now seek to silence folks for speaking the truth at townhalls.
The nuts who railed against the establishment NOW ARE the establishment and are far more corrupt than the 60's establishment ever dreamed at being.
The same leftist kooks who advocated freedom from oppressive government in the 60's are now in power and are advocating government control of virtually every aspect of our lives.
The same idiots who challenged Nixon's closed government are attempting to close out all those who question the present government's actions and intent.
Posted by: Saltherring on August 28, 2009 06:00 PM
I don't remember your outrage over the clearly fabricated "letters" that Dan Rather published. Were you upset at Rather, Mapes, and the CBS News department for standing behind those clearly fabricated letters?
Posted by: Shanghai Dan on August 28, 2009 06:12 PMSometimes it is worthwhile torturing liberals a bit. Being a liberal means that you have no sense of humor. Being liberal means you can call conservatives all kinds of names and make accusations you cannot back up with facts. Being liberal means that you can accuse your political opponents of "stereotyping" without admitting even in the middle of the night, lying awake alone with your own thoughts, that just perhaps you might be wrong.
Being liberal means you can call your political opposites an endless string of names and obscenities.
Being liberal means that a simple, innocent comment by one of their political opponents is met with their most vicious possible attack. Trent Lott could tell you about that.
They are freaking out now because conservatives are at last standing up to them.
And what do these people do? They plant their own people at town hall meetings with swastikas and racist slogans. Their own people vandalize Democrat buildings.
You try to tell folks about what these people are like and they do not believe you. Well, you are seeing it now.
And at this moment they are in the most disgusting way possible doing what all of us on the right knew they would do.
They are exploiting the death of Senator Edward Kennedy in a shameless effort to push through national healthcare.
It is simply nauseating. It's going to go on all weekend. It will have massive press coverage. It's being covered on that evil Fox News as I type this comment.
It will go on in the press for at least another couple of weeks.
I'd like to believe that Obama will offer a respectful tribute to Kennedy as befits the occassion.
Perhaps he will. I hope so.
I believe he will exploit the situation to make an entirely shameless appeal to enact his national healthcare agenda.
I am nearly certain Obama will do this. National healthcare is the Holy Grail for these leftists. It gives them near total control over the lives of nearly every citizen. It's what they've wanted for 40 years. I bet he and his advisors have been huddling for days figuring out a "memorable speech" Obama can give which will galvanize the country into passing national healthcare in the same way LBJ was able to enact the most dreadful welfare programs in the wake of the JFK assassination.
It's slipping away from their grasp, which they did not expect.
Suddenly Senator Kennedy's death gives them a chance to play upon the nation's heartstrings and just pass national healthcare "because it was Ted's lifelong dream".
Unless I miss my guess it's coming tomorrow. I know the left.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 28, 2009 07:27 PMP.S. Gary, please stop whining. You sound like a liberal.
Posted by: John Jensen on August 29, 2009 02:31 AMAnd Fox news is biased!? Is there a disconnect somewhere? I'll provide backup for these charges if anyone would like them.
Remember - nobody drowned in watergate.
Government-provided healthcare should be a guaranteed right....because it's fair
Abortion is legal....the "right to privacy" (huh?) is stated in the constitution (where?)
The death penalty is morally wrong....because murderers have rights too
Homosexual marriage should be legal....because they "love" each other
The rich have more stuff than the poor....it's just not fair
All war is wrong because we should make friends with our enemies....because killing is wrong (except for the unborn)
There is no god....except when Ted Kennedy is concerned, because I know God will welcome him with open arms
America is the great Satan....well, Obama did apologize to any foreign leader he could find, didn't he?
The constitution states there is to be separation of church and state (where?)....except for Muslims, because they are oppressed
White people are racists....some of them voted for McCain
Illegal aliens have rights....they have to feed their children too
Castro and Che were a freedom fighter....because all Cubans have "healthcare"
The "rich" don't pay their fair share of taxes....because Katie Couric said so
Public schools don't have enough money....well that's what the lady from the teachers union said
Our nations' city governments are models of efficiency.... yeah, just ask the Democrats, they've controlled most of them for the last 50 years
Sarah Palin is evil....The National Enquirer said so...or was it the New York Times?...oh, well, one of those newspapers.
"Watch tomorrow when Obama delivers his eulogy for Senator Kennedy.
...I believe he will exploit the situation to make an entirely shameless appeal to enact his national healthcare agenda."
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on August 29, 2009 10:05 AMFrom the President's speech text you provided the link to:
"He was a product of an age when the joy and nobility of politics prevented differences of party and philosophy from becoming barriers to cooperation and mutual respect"
This is exactly what we are going to hear from these people in the coming week or two.
Oh yes, they are going to say, we need to put partisan politics aside just the way Ted Kennedy did. We need to pass bi-partisan healthcare reform.
It's the new talking point that actually the Democrats began before Kennedy's death as a reaction to most Americans opposing Obama's attempt to pass socialized medicine.
Suddenly we must be civil and take down the partisan barriers that prevent honest debate about the issues.
Translation: The American People need to shut up and go along with any legislation the Obama Administration wants to pass. You know, in the spirit of cooperation and mutual respect.
As if the left ever does anything in the spirit of cooperation and mutual respect.
Where was the "joy and nobility of politics" displayed by the left when Sarah Palin was chosen to run as the nominee for Vice President? Was that
"a time when adversaries still saw each other as patriots."?
These people are simply shameless.
"Wrong? Not exactly."
Only in the small fantastic world in your mind Bill.
And clearly, no amount of fact shall be allowed to impinge upon your fantastic world view.
Now go out in to the farmer's markets and rail on some Hippies.
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on August 29, 2009 12:00 PMI would love to meet you in person and see what sort of bigot you actually are. And no, I don't mean racist, or homophobe, or sexist. You are bigoted toward progressives.
Posted by: John Jensen on August 29, 2009 12:01 PMJensen, I was one of those "hippies". Back in those days we just wanted to "be free and stuff".
We hated "the establishment" we hated our parents, we hated the government. We weren't exactly nice people. We were intolerant of anyone else's views. That what today's Democrats are like.
I think you'd be amazed if you met me in person John Jensen. I'm actually a pretty nice fellow.
I believe in liberty. If that makes me "bigoted towards progressives" so be it.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 29, 2009 12:18 PMThe current President has shown by his actions that he does not care about liberty as it is today - he even stated that he wants to transform this country. He also said that you can tell about a person by who he surrounds himself with. Mr. Obama has surrounded himself with a good number of "czars" who call themselves radical progressives (ie. neo-coms) - examples: Carol Browner, Van Jones (Green Jobs czar), Cass Sunstein (Media czar) , Mark Lloyd (communications czar - FCC), Ezekiel Emmanuel (health care czar) to name a few.
Posted by: KDS on August 29, 2009 12:28 PM"I was one of those "hippies"...
We hated ... we hated ....., we hated ...... "
Your self described hating as rationalization says more about you than your association of your hate to a subculture best known for its "Summer of Love".
No matter. You keep asking 'Y' to prevent the OLIGARH. LOL!!!
The "bigots" in this country are those really dreadfull people on the left that love killing unborn children. They also through their stupid welfare programs promoted single parenthood. That turned the African American community in this country into a violent horror. I worked there. A fine young African American I hired was gunned down in cold blood. I'm not making this up to make a political point the way leftists do. I've seen it.
That's real bigotry.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 29, 2009 12:48 PMYou know, you leftists had better wise up before Obama the Marxist confiscates whatever private property, investments and personal freedoms you have left. Try doing your own thinking sometime, it works.
Posted by: Saltherring on August 29, 2009 01:37 PMClick here for a very important podcast about them and the threat they pose to America.
Today they hate socialized medicine. But tomorrow if their leaders tell them socialized medicine is good, the same people here will be promoting socialized medicine.
That podcast I provided a link to above reveals the stark truth about these lowlifes. Yeah they happen to be right about socialized medicine but the only reason they are right about socialized medicine is because Obama is for it. Tomorrow when Romney is for socialized medicine they are going to be for socialized medicine, so do they really have any credibility?
Yesterday Cap and trade was bad. Now it's good. That's how quickly things change for them.
Posted by: Steve on August 29, 2009 02:03 PMThis is an example of the incomprensible babble Paul Gottfried, like so many academics, seem to believe is reasoned analysis:
"The historical details that I am providing would be common knowledge for Brookhiser and his patrons were their intent not to assert the counterfactual for their own ideological and sociological reasons. Thus they imagine that some straight line can be drawn effortlessly from the failure of German and Russian societies to undergo something like Lincoln's bloody democratic revolution down to the murderous governments of Hitler and Stalin. But these societies were not the way the neocons and their court historians describe them; nor were they foredoomed to what happened to them much later."
What sort of people use words such as "counterfactual" and "foredoomed"?
Liberals.
No conservative would write that kind of snotty blather.
Had enough of them?
I think most of us finally have had more than enough of these really phony people.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 29, 2009 03:10 PMThanks for proving to the world what a lowlife you are. Romneycare is good, Obamacare is bad, right?
And Wrestling is Real! You are sure a fan of it!
Posted by: Steve on August 29, 2009 03:37 PMOf course you were. That's what people did back then.
You Are a follower!
You can't think for yourself.
When you were a teenager you did and acted in the way that your icons did.
Now that you are a Republican yet again you can't think for yourself. Thinking for yourself is scary.
The only reason you make any sense right now is because like a broken clock you just happen to be right. But you don't know why you are right because you just parrot others.
But when they start to parrot something else you will start to parrot something else.
Whatever your leaders tell you, right?
You may be wearing a different t-shirt today, but you still are just like you were when you were that dirty ole hippie doing stuff because everyone around you is.
Cap and Trade was Bad. Now it's good. Obamacare bad. Romneycare good.
Always, always do what your leaders tell you to do. Even when it contradicts what they told you to do yesterday.
You are a clown. Just because you have changed from a tye die to an elephant ears hat it doesn't change you from being a clown. You are just a follower who can't think for himself.
Posted by: Steve on August 29, 2009 03:49 PMWhat do you do? Label me as a "lowlife",call me a "Movement Republican", (whatever that means), and say I support "cap and trade".
It so darned predictable.
Just once I would like to see one of you Democrats actually show your own name and e-mail address.
You never do. The only exception is Ivan. I disagree with Ivan but he has the courage to post his actual e-mail address and I respect him for that.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 29, 2009 03:57 PMI think simply reading it speaks for itself. Enjoy!
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 29, 2009 04:03 PMAs long as you don't get that the Republican party is part of the problem you are going to be just as much my enemy as the Democrats are.
You are ignorant and you can't think for yourself.
You happen to be right about Health Care but that is only because your leaders told you to be against socialized medicine. When Romney gets elected and starts pushing through socialized medicine you will be wrong again, just like you were wrong with the Bush Bailout and Reichert's Cap and Trade.
You are still that dirty ole hippie going along with your crowd. It is just instead of a tye die you are now wearing an elephant ears hat.
You are a pathetic follower. Always has been. Always will be.
Posted by: Steve on August 29, 2009 04:07 PMSteve - you are a lost soul. Cap and trade was never good - it will kill our economy and lose many jobs. If you support this, with all due respect, you are insane.
Posted by: KDS on August 29, 2009 04:15 PMYou regularly call those you differ with an amazing amount of names.
Latest example?
"You are still that dirty ole hippie going along with your crowd. It is just instead of a tye die you are now wearing an elephant ears hat."
I understand you unpleasant people. And you are not happy that I do.
America finally understands you too.
We don't want socialism. We certainly don't want the mean, controlling, angry, name calling people that want to bring it to us.
You are doubly angry because you are beginning to realize that 40 years of hammering us with political correctness, waging war against Christmas, promoting single parenthood and the killing of unborn innocent children is blowing up in your face.
You are truly mean people and every single post you and your friends make calling us names for daring to oppose your political beliefs simply confirms it.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 29, 2009 04:39 PMDon't you see what is going on here? Bill and the gang aren't "Movement Conservatives", they are the Straussian Historicism premise which underlies the need and goodness of "managerial tyranny".
Without folks like Bill and the gang, the whole neo-con movement conservative facade would not even be possible.
Your dilemma here Steve (and/or Beth and/or Dave and/or....) is that the church of the paleocons means nothing here - for all the reasons Strauss viewed Liberal Democracy as weak.
Expecting Sounders to read, know and understand paleos like Gottfried is wasted effort (see Bill's complaint about the erudition of Gottfried as proof of his liberalism).
You'll be better off with the often repeated Obamacare=Romneycare=socialism meme, but that really won't get you guys very far; it is just an uneconomic extension of your Obama=Socialist/Nazi meme. Which in the end, ironically, has you fitting right in.
:-o
:-D
May he will rot in hell...
Posted by: Killer Ted on August 29, 2009 05:15 PM"Don't you see what is going on here? Bill and the gang aren't "Movement Conservatives", they are the Straussian Historicism premise which underlies the need and goodness of "managerial tyranny".
Is MikeBoyScout a professor at some local College?
Just a wild guess.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 29, 2009 05:43 PMT.E.A. party protesters: normal people.
Get it right mike or STFU...
Posted by: Alphabet Soup on August 29, 2009 05:46 PM"T.E.A. party protesters: normal people."
Of course they are. And they're classy too!
Posted by: MikeBoyScout on August 29, 2009 06:05 PMThey are not people who discuss "Straussian Historicism".
They are people who fix your plumbing, re-roof your house, repair your cars, and build the carbon spewing jets that Obama flies in nearly every single day of the week despite his bleating about a "world in peril" from carbon emissions.
Are you not getting that liberals like Obama are card carrying phonies?
They are the same rotten people like Castro and Khruschev who lived in luxury while condemning the people they claimed to support to misery.
It really isn't that difficult to figure out these people.
I suppose we could ignore years of leftist protests with burning American flags, and calling President Bush a Nazi. Oh, and there are those really cool puppets you people always make. Aren't you just such a wonderful creative community?
When you get all snarky over the right of conservatives to protest and mock them as not being "classy" perhaps you are just being a leftist phony.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on August 29, 2009 06:40 PM