I have to wonder if someone is being honest when they say that they aren't paying attention to a major scandal centered around an organization they worked for, and with, their entire career -- especially when Congress is cutting off all funds for that organization. So it is with President Obama and ACORN when he said yesterday, "You know, it's -- frankly, it's not really something I've followed closely. I didn't even know that ACORN was getting a whole lot of federal money."
If ACORN had not canceled its "Prosperity Forum" in Everett last week, I wonder how many of the Democrats scheduled to show up would've been there. Maybe none; maybe that is why it was canceled. We don't know.
But we do know that they are closely tied to ACORN.
I am not saying they knew about or condoned any of these terrible things ACORN has done. I am not playing guilt by association. Rather, I am condemning the attempt of many Democrats, especially President Obama, to pretend they aren't associated: to distance themselves in order to avoid questions of potential guilt.
Just look at the Everett ACORN office itself for plenty of examples. It's a place called the Labor Temple, at 2812 Lombard Avenue. What else is there? Well, for starters, a bunch of unions. And the Snohomish County Democrats.
Democratic state legislators from the 38th District (Mike Sells and John McCoy) and the 44th District (Hans Dunshee) call 2812 Lombard in Everett their home. Their offices are on the same floor as ACORN. Funny how they couldn't make it to a meeting down the hall from their offices, right after the scandal broke.
Governor Gregoire went there while campaigning.
Even President Obama's campaign office was there.
Look, if ACORN or its employees do some terrible things -- like, for example, attempt to aid and abet child sex slavery, or commit nationwide acts of voter registration fraud -- condemn them. Vote to defund them or investigate them as necessary. We won't hold it against you for knowing them. But don't pretend you don't know them.
ONE MORE THING
Speaking of voting to defund ACORN, I want to know what Rep. Rick Larsen (WA-2) thinks is important. He said that voting to defund ACORN is not a good use of Congress' time. "We have issues facing this country about job creation, about protecting jobs like those at ALCOA, like increasing access to health care, increasing access to higher education, that frankly deserve more attention from a member of Congress," Larsen said. "Somebody has to stand up and make a statement about what are the important issues facing this country."
All of those are important. I agree. But I submit that a few minutes of your time to cut off a visibly corrupt organization like ACORN -- especially since the debate was over and you were simply voting at that point -- is worthwhile. We're not talking about meaningless resolutions here, like H.Res. 484: Expressing support for designation of June 10th as "National Pipeline Safety Day" and H.Res. 652: Recognizing the 150th anniversary of the Pig War crisis, both of which were sponsored by Larsen this year.
Seriously, I want to know which is more important for our Congress to address, Congressman: recognizing a bloodless "war" 150 years ago and expressing support for the designation of "National Pipeline Safety Day" -- which does not actually designate such a day, but merely expresses support for its designation -- or cutting off from taxpayer dollars an organization that systemically, nationally, committed voter registration fraud and attempted to aid and abet prostitution and child sex slavery?
Or did you already give us your answer?
[N.B. Apparently John Fund this morning also had an article called Acorn Who?, in the Wall Street Journal. I make no apologies for not changing my title when I saw his. Besides, mine has the proper capitalization. But his article is definitely worth reading.]
Cross-posted on <pudge/*>.
Posted by pudge at September 21, 2009 03:01 PM | Email This"frankly". He signed the budget, but he doesn't know where the money goes.
Good for George Stepinawfulstuff for pressing the issue yesterday.
As for Larsen... the respect I had for the man who I opposed ideologically is gone.
Posted by: Gary on September 21, 2009 03:55 PMACORN clearly has some bad apples and maybe a cultural problem which should be fixed. But there is no evidence that they helped anyone actually vote illegally anywhere anytime, let alone helped a real sex slaveowner or tax evader. I'm happy to see you waste your time on this issue, but don't imagine it really matters.
Posted by: Bruce on September 21, 2009 04:10 PMNEA = Nefarious Expenditures on Agitprop!
http://bigchase.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/obey.jpg
ACORN: Child “Services”, Financial “Services”, “Voter” Registration ---Democrat Funded
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
And did I forgot that he's a lying scumbag?
Sorry I overlooked that.
Posted by: hinton on September 21, 2009 04:41 PMHow closely should the POTUS be following this? If he's not following it closely, should he be making strong condemnatory statements about something when he doesn't have all the facts? (Maybe he leaves that up to bloggers...)
pudge seems disappointed that Obama hasn't moved this to the top of his national priority list. I'm not sure why.
Vote to defund them or investigate them as necessary.
Done!
We won't hold it against you for knowing them. But don't pretend you don't know them.
Who's pretending not to know them?
Posted by: scottd on September 21, 2009 04:49 PMDidn't stop him from commenting on the Henry Louis Gates dabacle now did it? Acorn needs to be investigated and prosecuted under the RICO statutes, defunded and forbidden to ever receive any future public funds and also lose any tax exemption status it once enjoyed.
Posted by: Rick D on September 21, 2009 05:13 PM-
"I don't have all the facts, that cop acted stupidly!"
Never stopped him before. What more facts does he need before he can condemn them?
Anyway, he is lying when he claims to not know anything about it.
Heck, Boeing's CFO went to jail for attempting to defraud the USA and 10s of billions of tax dollars and yet your taxes continue to roll that way.
But keep flogging. :-)
The bread is not nearly as good without the circus.
No.
You present no evidence that these unions and ACORN worked together.
And I never claimed they worked together. Your implication that I did is odd.
I strongly doubt they worked together on importing child slaves.
So do I. Which is why I SAID EXPLICITLY that I wasn't implying they did. Did you actually read my post?
ACORN clearly has some bad apples and maybe a cultural problem which should be fixed.
Obviously. :-)
But there is no evidence that they helped anyone actually vote illegally anywhere anytime
That is irrelevant. They committed MASSIVE voter registration fraud, and in a state like Washington -- which is almost all mail -- a fake voter on the rolls is TRIVIAL to exploit to vote illegally. We saw the woman who registered her dog to vote, similarly to what ACORN did but on a much smaller scale, and she didn't vote either. But she could have, easily. She was only caught because she turned herself in.
The crime here is not voter fraud, but voter registration fraud, which is a crime because it can be used to commit voter fraud.
let alone helped a real sex slaveowner or tax evader
Well, to the first part, I agree, though it sure seems like they TRIED. As to the latter ... I can't agree. The people in those videos were exceedingly comfortable with and knowledgable of what people needed to do to commit tax fraud, and they did not hesitate to aid and abet that crime when presented with the opportunity. This is not evidence of a specific crime of actual tax evasion, of course, but it is clearly sufficient evidence to launch an investigation.
scottd: So, ACORN looks like it might have some employees who show poor judgement and have done some stupid and possibly illegal things.
ACORN fired them, so even ACORN would say that your use of the word "might" is weird. Of course they did. And this is not just "poor judgment" or "stupid and possibly illegal things," it was literally attempting to aid and abet serious, and absolutely despicable, crimes. "Stupid and possibly illegal things" is taking some money out of the kitty or something. Aiding and abetting child sex slavery is beyond the pale.
Someone oughta investigate this and take corrective action!
Obviously.
How closely should the POTUS be following this?
As the person in charge of all federal investigators, and the subject of significant media attention, he SHOULD be at least familiar with it.
But as someone who worked for ACORN and worked closely with them his entire career, if he is a human being, he could not help but be interested in it and to follow it. It is not about the SHOULD as much as ... how could he, in his position, being so close to ACORN, not follow it? It makes no sense. He's lying.
pudge seems disappointed that Obama hasn't moved this to the top of his national priority list.
No, I do not seem like that at all. Nothing I said remotely implied that, and, like Bruce, you're making things up in my words and views that don't exist. All I said is that Obama is lying when he said he is not following this, and in my opinion he is doing it to avoid appearances of association. Even though association clearly exists.
Who's pretending not to know them?
I was, obviously, using a bit of hyperbole. Hence the title.
Love it!
How many failures did O'Keefe and Giles have, MikeBoyScout?
Dan Kristiansen should run. He'd have a shot anyway. Maybe John Koster wants to run again? He won't lose his job if he runs.
Posted by: Cliff on September 21, 2009 05:24 PMShrug. I don't pretend it is a tempest at all. So what?
If you chose to dig the issue you'd discover that not only is there no evidence of systemic child prostitution in this organization
I never said there was. I said there is evidence of systemic AIDING AND ABETTING of prostitution and child sex slavery. Which there is.
the successful sting took quite a significant number of fails before someone bit.
And several of them DID bite. It doesn't need to happen all, or most, of the time, to be "systemic." After all, the Democrats often said U.S. mistreatment of detainees was "systemic."
Heck, Boeing's CFO went to jail for attempting to defraud the USA and 10s of billions of tax dollars and yet your taxes continue to roll that way.
And if ACORN were a corporation performing services vital to national security, I would say that we should continue to fund certain projects during an investigation. They aren't. They should obviously be cut off.
I note none of you apologists are even attempting to defend what Larsen said.
If that's true, let's see some prosecutions! That's what we do when people break the law, right?
As the person in charge of all federal investigators, and the subject of significant media attention, he SHOULD be at least familiar with it.
Nonsense. There are many federal investigations and I don't think ginned up media attention should set the priority for Obama's detailed attention.
But as someone who worked for ACORN and worked closely with them his entire career, if he is a human being, he could not help but be interested in it and to follow it. It is not about the SHOULD as much as ... how could he, in his position, being so close to ACORN, not follow it?It makes no sense.
Makes sense to me. There are many things I've worked on or with for long periods in my career that I might be interested in following now if I had the time. But I don't. I hope the same is true for Obama -- he has more important things to worry about.
He's lying.
I hope not -- and you don't know either. More hyperbole?
Posted by: scottd on September 21, 2009 05:28 PMWe might. What's your point?
There are many federal investigations and I don't think ginned up media attention should set the priority for Obama's detailed attention.
Wow. You think that it is "ginned up"? So you are NOT outraged at your tax dollars being spent by people to attempt to aid and abet child slavery? I never fancied you for someone without a soul.
Makes sense to me.
This is an org he worked closely with his ENTIRE CAREER. It makes no sense, and I have a hard time believing it actually makes sense to you.
I hope not -- and you don't know either. More hyperbole?
No. He is lying. And no one but hyperpartisans on the left, like you, believe otherwise.
You assume too much. I would be totally outraged if my tax dollars were used by people attempting to aid and abet child slavery.
No. He is lying. And no one but hyperpartisans on the left, like you, believe otherwise.
Sure, pudge, you know all -- including what people you've never met are thinking. Funny, you didn't seem to know how I felt about child slavery.
We might. What's your point?
Just out of curiosity, what crimes do you think we might see prosecuted?
He is the Chicago mobster in chief - wouldn't have expected anything less.
Posted by: KDS on September 21, 2009 07:02 PMUmm.
You're confused.
That did happen. Your tax dollars were used by people attempting to aid and abet child sex slavery. We have proof.
Yet, you don't appear outraged.
Why?
By the way, will you be telling me what crimes you think might be prosecuted?
Posted by: scottd on September 21, 2009 07:48 PMFalse.
yet you've totally missed my outrage at those who would attempt to aid and abet child sex slavery
Wow. Describing "employees who show poor judgement and have done some stupid and possibly illegal things" is expressing "outrage"?
Really?
False.
After our last few encounters, I think you would be smart enough to avoid this game. I'll make it easier for you this time:
pudge@18: And no one but hyperpartisans on the left, like you, believe otherwise.
So, I'll ask again: Are you lying, or just mistaken?
Posted by: scottd on September 21, 2009 08:09 PMHis core supporters maybe will buy it - but they will buy anything he's peddling.
The right? I don't seriously believe he gives a flying $%^$# one way or the other about the right.
That leaves the centrists - the ones who elected him I keep hearing. He must have some pretty serious delusional fantasies if he thinks they are going to believe this bald faced lie.
The man's ineptitude amazes me. Damn, but its going to be a long three and a half years.
Posted by: deadwood on September 21, 2009 08:21 PMalong with Ayers attendance at the World Education Forum in Venezuela and his comments there,
along with Zelaya trying to act like a Chavez,
along with Obama accusing Honduras of a Coup rather than following their constitution,
along with Obama trying to withhold millions of dollars from the current Honduras government,
along with Obama trying to force Health Care without discussion,
along with Obama trying to raise everyone's gas and electricity prices with Cap and Trade,
along with Obama paying Brazil millions of dollars for off-shore drilling and not doing the same for us,
along with Obama refusing to increase our baseline power with more use of Coal,
along with Obama not advancing Nuclear power even though he was for it during his campaign,
along with Obama hiring Van Jones and other CZARs without vetting b y the Senate,
along with Obama trying to close Guantanamo and turn War Prisoners into the equivalent of American citizens,
along with Obama politicizing any knowledge of ACORN problems,
along with Obama refusing the dictionary definition of 'TAX',
along with Obama continuing his campaign over the last eight months rather than leading,
along with Obama withdrawing missle defense from Poland without consulting with Poland,
along with Obama refusing to reveal any of grades, any of his college papers, and his birth certificate,
and the result is almost irrefutable evidence of Obama, his background, and current presidency being so extremely suspect that he should not be our President.
Posted by: Tim on September 21, 2009 09:19 PMThe Acorn signs will come down, new signs will go up, and we taxpayers will get the bill.
And scottd is right about one thing. No prosecutor is going to file any charges based on a youtube video. Otherwise Alex Jones would by now have dozens if not hundreds of convictions to his credit.
Posted by: travis t on September 22, 2009 02:26 AMSee this is the big problem. We have no idea what ACORN has funded because no-one has looked over the books.
SO until the lib's and the Prez press for a complete investigation. We have NO idea and until it happens. Well can all just guess away.
(-:
PS. I understand the ACORN and the Dem's party is in the same building in SNO-Homish county?
When knew. LOL
Posted by: Medic/Vet on September 22, 2009 06:48 AM
And the more he does it the less they'll like him. Eventually, if he keeps it up, the voters will actually hear him say things (that he has said) like that he does not want to even talk to people who want to prevent government-controlled health insurance.
Mark1: as to Joe Wilson, I would have voted to "scold" him too. He offended not just Obama, but the House chamber. He should have apologized to the House.
Maybe he can go on TV and explain why Social Security will be in deficit, and start drawing from the general fund next year!
We are in the very best of hands.
By all means lets pile health care welfare on top of every other failed enterprise.
Posted by: Gary on September 22, 2009 08:13 AMMaybe he can go back on TV and explain his Afghanistan strategy which he is now in process of pulling the rug out from the men and women he *just* sent there this year!
Unilaterally take down missile defense.
Unilaterally destroy American nuclear arsenal
And get what in return? NOTHING!
"If you chose to dig the issue you'd discover that not only is there no evidence of systemic child prostitution in this organization, the successful sting took quite a significant number of fails before someone bit. "
That is not true.
Posted by: facts on September 22, 2009 08:59 AMThe latter does not justify the former, as Joe Wilson himself has stated.
In British Parliament, they will loudly drum their desk if they strongly object to what the speaker is spewing.
We are not them. I do not care WHAT the rules are, I just care that our elected representatives follow them. If we had a British style in our House, fine by me. But we don't, and Wilson demonstrated disrespect, and he should apologize to the House.
Frankly, I would not apologize to Obama or anybody else in calling them a Liar
Frankly, you would never be elected to Congress.
There's a time and a place for everything. It is not saying "you lie" that I object to; it is saying it in that time and place and context that is the problem.
Don't you find that Wrong and Insulting?
Don't you recognize the fact that this is irrelevant to the point that he violated decorum by saying it then, and there, and in that context?
Saying there are WMD in Iraq because intelligence reports from multiple allies declare so = Lying and War Crime
(Unless one's a libtard then they are just poor gullible suckers deceived by BusHitlerBurton.)
Making a false statement under oath = Excusable if about sex.
So, in the libtard's Bizzaro universe, making a statement one knows to not be true is not a lie. But making a statement that one knows to be true is a lie.
Got it?
It alerted a lot of people to the loophole, and thus, the lie, or falsehood at least.
Posted by: Gary on September 22, 2009 10:46 AMFalse.
My point (which I thought was clear) is that what I am speaking to -- that Wilson was wrong and should apologize to the House -- is a rule for members of Congress, not for people who are not (and never will be) members of Congress. It does not apply to people who, like you, are not of the proper temperament that our society demands for our elected representatives.
I think you may have fallen for that age old elitist Crap that you can't call the President a Liar because, you are insulting the Office of the Presidency.
You "think" this based on ... what? Since I never said a. you can't call the President a liar or b. anything about insulting the office of the presidency, and further, c. I explicitly stated I had NO PROBLEM with calling the President a liar ... what you "think" is not based in any way on reality.
You can't call a speaker a Liar in the House because, you are being rude and violating the rules of decorum of the House.
This is obviously true, yes.
However, those rules of remaining polite and respectful to the point of allowing Evil to grow and flourish because, the so-called rules of decorum refuses you the right to call a Liar a Liar then, that protects Evil at the expense of Good.
That's plainly idiotic, as there are innumerable places and times where you can call Obama a liar.
Why no criticism? (not by you, but everyone else)
If the ends in this case cause this whole deal to collapse, then yes. A whole bunch of Dems heckled Bush in 2005 and nobody cared.
It's only a crisis when a single Republican does it.
Yes, there are innumerable places and times where you can call Obama a Liar. I agree. However, we have a Train of Destruction rapidly charging down upon us and we cannot afford to simply shout Liar from the sidelines. We must have our Representatives stand up in the House and shout Obama down directly. We must blowup the tracks directly in front of the Train of Destruction and Save this Nation. The time for excessive politeness and decorum is over.
Because Obama was the speaker at the time. You don't interrupt like that. It's rude and disrespectful and he should apologize to the House for it.
If the ends in this case cause this whole deal to collapse, then yes.
You're wrong, Gary. We cannot allow ourselves to rationalize our behavior like the left does. We have to hold ourselves to a higher standard. Again, even Wilson admitted he was wrong.
A whole bunch of Dems heckled Bush in 2005 and nobody cared.
Again: that doesn't make it OK.
It's only a crisis when a single Republican does it.
And I hear you on that. There is an obvious double standard. But it still doesn't justify what he did.
Correct. That you think it is acceptable to interrupt the President in a joint session of Congress by yelling at him proves this.
We must have our Representatives stand up in the House and shout Obama down directly.
Yeah, like I said ... you are not of the proper temperament.
It's only because we are finally standing up to this crap, and yes being kinda rude sometimes, that we are enlisting help from people who have never been active.
It's like splashing cold water into people's faces. It might be rude, but it wakes 'em up.
Posted by: Gary on September 22, 2009 01:20 PMBy your blind obedience to protocol, a ruthless adversary will turn that protocol against you and Crush you with it. Take Neville Chamberlain, he certainly dealt with Hitler politely and properly....didn't he?
Your Right...Gary!
Posted by: Daniel on September 22, 2009 01:27 PM"The American public...just like your teenage kids, aren't acting in a way that they should act," Dr. Chu said. "The American public has to really understand in their core how important this issue is."
-
Yeah, Dr. Chu... make me!
Yes, but what is reasonable to you is unreasonable to almost every other American.
It is past time for Obama to be flatly Called Out!
And I've been doing it all along. I didn't need to violate the rules of the House to do it.
By your blind obedience to protocol ...
No such thing exists. Please stop lying.
Take Neville Chamberlain, he certainly dealt with Hitler politely and properly....didn't he?
Seriously. After this little comment about Hitler, I am just not going to respond to you ever again. You are actually comparing follow the rules of the House to having national policies of appeasement. That's like comparing having a drink with the opposing quarterback, to refusing to try to tackle him during the game.
Of course, your insipid and repeated belief that Obama is comparable to Hitler, and the Democrats to Nazis, is reason enough to ignore you. I should have learned my lesson long ago.