It's unbelievable - today law enforcement officers and citizens paid tribute to the four police officers that lost their lives in a senseless killing on November 29, 2009 and Nicole Brodeur publishes her third column in a row (third!) about the aunt of the cop-killer. Yes, Nicole, it's good that the aunt did the right thing (eventually) and went to the police to tell them that her nephew was headed to her house but just because you are comparing her against the very low standard of the rest of the thug's family doesn't mean she is a saint. And yes, it's too bad her home was trashed but does this compare in any way to the loss suffered by the families of the slain police officers? It's unbelievable that you are boo-hoo-hooing about the fact that they aren't getting a $120K reward from Crimestoppers. Besides the fact that the killer was discovered and shot when he randomly approached a police officer who was looking into a stolen car (and that therefore the aunt's tip to the police did not lead to the apprehension of the killer), how tasteless is it for them to talk about how the reward money might stabilize their lives?
What about the lives of the police officers' families?
Nicole - today you should have talked about Ronald Owens, age 37, Mark Renninger, age 39, Tina Griswold, age 40, and Gregory Richards, age 42. They left behind eight children, ages 3 to 21.
Posted by Mrs. Shark at December 08, 2009 09:48 PM | Email ThisThat they didn't qualify for the $120,000 reward is unfortunate, but not the end of the world. The main thing is to get their house back in working order. Brodeur should cool her jets about anything else.
The aunt still did the right thing, regardless.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam on December 8, 2009 10:00 PMCan you imagine what Brodeur would do if the perpetrators were White killing 4 Black cops??
We would have HATE CRIME and Race-baiting galore.
Excellent work Mrs. Shark.
The reward money should go to the Forza employees who provided the initial info about Clemmons. It certainly shouldn't go to relatives of the killer.
Posted by: Jeff B. on December 9, 2009 04:26 AMI wonder if what Clemons and his conspirators did can be regarded as a "hate crime"?
Posted by: Attila on December 9, 2009 04:35 AM"On the one hand, 'We are the ones who did what we were supposed to do,' [Chrisceda] Clemmons told [Brodeur]. On the other hand, 'We are aware of the award, but it's been a pretty minor consideration,' Michael Shantz said."..."Clemmons and Shantz acknowledged that the reward would stabilize their lives, and help rebuild their band, Bakra Bata, which has taken them to Lincoln Center and around the world."
Apparently not, if your first instinct before the bodies are buried is to angle for receiving a reward for doing the right thing. I'm not sure who's more classless on this faux sob story, Clemmons' aunt for showing her mug in public wanting the 120K reward for her nephews crimes or Nicole Brodeur for writing such rubbish on the day of the polic officers burial. Probably a tie in my book. Clemmon's will get her house repaired at our expense and that is all she should receive. Retreating into the shadows in shame should be her next step to ponder why her dysfunctional family members are capable of committing such acts, but also provide aid and comfort after the fact.
The children of those fallen officers are just a little more important than Ms.Clemmons and Shantz starting their damn band, but hey, it just goes to show some folks don't have their moral compass pointing due north. It also shows some folks that look to free handouts are conditioned to do so by a cycle of dependency promoted by the Democrat party. Pathetic
Posted by: Rick D. on December 9, 2009 05:17 AMThe fact is that once again our government services put another crook on the street to kill.
Next we'll be going into the new state budget cycle where Gregiore and team will be slashing budgets fo corrections departments and education. (Though you can bet they'll still be building big statues in front of the waste disposal sites, hanging $30,000 salmon sculptures off the side of freeway offramps and paying numerous "consultants," and "community relations" advisers six figure incomes on our tax dollars.)
Posted by: john on December 9, 2009 06:44 AMAs to the post in question, it certainly hits the nail on the head, so to speak. Brodeur is pretty classless, which is why I don't bother to read her tripe.
Just sayin'
Posted by: komodo_dragon on December 9, 2009 07:45 AMI was wondering the same thing.
And notice how when dk comments, it's with such a tone of burden. Ohhhh that he should have to come here and renounce and attempt to beat back the vast right wing hordes. It's a full time job, but he's gonna do it for the sake of Progressives everywhere, BRAVO. Thanks for your service.
And usually, each comment starts with something like, "You wingnut moron," ... Why would you waste your invaluable time at a place where you are so convinced that everyone is a moron, that you need to waste a few keystrokes to add that in to every message.
Chrisceda Clemmons and her husband are the only two people in that family who can hold their heads high after this. They should, obviously, be compensated for the extensive damage to their house. If the Lakewood or Seattle police departments had offered rewards, then they should get that as well. But the crimestoppers jackpot, they obviously are not entitled to (and for good reason) so they should stop angling for it. Although, in fairness, they're not being aggressive about it.
Brodeur's first article on Chrisceda was really interesting and a good read. Articles two and (especially) three made it seem like Brodeur was trying to get as many column inches out of her relationship with Chrisceda as possible.
And this website would be much better if Mr. and Mrs. Sharkansky posted more often (and fudge dialed it back), so we should stop complaining. :)
Posted by: AD on December 9, 2009 09:58 AMHow low has SP sunk? Not a tough question, you are still posting here.
Posted by: G Jiggy on December 9, 2009 10:05 AMLosing the tobacco settlement money? Not her fault. Staffer.
Massive state deficits? Bush's fault. Or what deficit?
Criminal facing life in prison let back on the street? Former Arkansas governor's fault.
Plenty of other examples too...
Posted by: Palouse on December 9, 2009 11:04 AMMy wife and I sat horrified when we heard the news that 4 police officers had been gunned down in Parkland. We have police officers in our family. We looked at each other. We knew the shooter would be African American, and that he would have a huge criminal record. Columnists such as Nicole Brodeur, and the left, including our President, live in a state of denial.
A wonderful young African American I knew was gunned down last February on Cherry Street in Seattle. He was only 26.
When are Nicole Brodeur and her liberal friends going to deal with the results of what welfare did to African American Families since President Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society" of the 1960's?
Nicole Brodeur wouldn't walk down any street in Seattle's Central District after sunset. It's a frightening place. Brodeur and her liberal colleagues do not have the courage to confront the terrible violence in the African American community. They cover it up. They pretend it doesn't exist. They won't confront it because of political correctness. They must not ever watch television on the weekends which show African Americans shoving guns in the faces of store owners. We have video now. It's time to stop the denial and deal with reality.
Posted by: Bill Cruchon on December 9, 2009 11:12 AM
As I've said to you before - leave. I guarantee you won't be missed.
Posted by: jimg on December 9, 2009 11:19 AMThis sort of thing is an insult to the memory of the protection those four officers were trying to provide.
Direct your anger to the moronic judges who allowed bail!
Well, JB, make sure that next time, you leave your name and number with the desk seargant's at the precinct. And that you've volunteered to be the first through the door to see if the murder suspect is in the premises. Once you've cleared all of the rooms, you'll blow a whistle and anounce "all clear". Nice and tidy without all the property damage, flashbangs and smoke. You da man.
Inre: Moral compass, since when did a slight property damage rise to the level of risking further loss of life?
Posted by: Rick D. on December 9, 2009 11:52 AMAll of them are bouncing around the left side of the Sound like pinballs.
Maybe that's good. Like most citizens, they don't know where they actually stand on race, crime, environment, and politics in general.
But speaking of Nicole, my most memorable Brodeur moment came at the end of her column back 2001 in which she interviewed Jerrel Thomas after his conviction for the beating death of Kris Kime during our Mardi Gras race riot.
Nicole weighed some points back and forth, concluded that the murder was bad, and then closed with "but, ya know, in the end, I kinda liked the guy". (the murderer)
Auntie had one hell of a tough decision and did the right thing. To hell with all of you moralizing bastards who have the audacity to criticize her over that. All you're doing is proving you've lived a sheltered, completely undynamic existence. I feel nothing but pitty for your lack of even basic human empathy...
Posted by: nic on December 9, 2009 09:17 PMAuntie had one hell of a tough decision and did the right thing. To hell with all of you moralizing bastards who have the audacity to criticize her over that. All you're doing is proving you've lived a sheltered, completely undynamic existence. I feel nothing but pitty for your lack of even basic human empathy...
Posted by: nic on December 9, 2009 09:18 PMAuntie had one hell of a tough decision and did the right thing. To hell with all of you moralizing bastards who have the audacity to criticize her over that. All you're doing is proving you've lived a sheltered, completely undynamic existence. I feel nothing but pitty for your lack of even basic human empathy...
Posted by: nic on December 9, 2009 09:18 PMAuntie had one hell of a tough decision and did the right thing. To hell with all of you moralizing bastards who have the audacity to criticize her over that. All you're doing is proving you've lived a sheltered, completely undynamic existence. I feel nothing but pitty for your lack of basic human empathy...
Posted by: nic on December 9, 2009 09:18 PMAren't her actions something civic-minded people should be advocating instead of hurling racist and political insults at?
Whoever the hell you are, I can't believe you're living in the same country -- let alone planet -- as me. Your views represent everything I find so sad about the human condition...
Posted by: nic on December 9, 2009 09:23 PM"Auntie had one hell of a tough decision": Not to me. Protect a mass murderer vs. assist LEO s. That's only a dilemma for dirtbags of your ilk.
Go back to your rolling papers and lube.
Posted by: Attila on December 10, 2009 03:27 AM
The fact that you would attempt to compare the damage to a house with the loss of even one human life, let alone four lives indicates that it is you, in fact, who is suffering from "a sheltered, completely undynamic existence" and a "lack of basic human empathy...".
Tell us Nic: What is the probability that her home will be restored to as good or better condition than it was before the incident, versus the probability that the families of the slain officers will have their lives restored to as good or better condition than they were before the incident.
I've seen some people who are out of touch with reality before, but none like you.
Pretty sad, really.
Also, you apparently can't or didn't actually read the original post by Mrs. Shark. If you had, you might have seen this statement:
"And yes, it's too bad her home was trashed but does this compare in any way to the loss suffered by the families of the slain police officers?"
Kinda shoots down your asinine claim: "Wow...guess you can't feel sympathetic for BOTH the aunt and the families, eh? Nothing like presenting a false choice to dumb down reality." Like I said, you are the one who is actually out of touch with reality.
No, doing the right thing isn't that difficult. Especially in this case and under these circumstances. As you said previously,"[n]othing like presenting a false choice to dumb down reality".
All you're doing is proving you've lived a sheltered, completely undynamic existence.
You mean like that of Maurice Clemmons'
I feel nothing but pitty for your lack of even basic human empathy...
And I feel sorry for people that try to aid and abet a 4 times over murderer of 4 cops for no apparent reason. 1 aunt did the right thing while how many family members are behind bars awaiting sentencing for accessories after the fact? Several.
The lady is fucking homeless right now because she did the right thing and turned in a blood relative of hers.
She'd have relatives to stay with if they weren't in lock up right now for helping her nephew, so don't look for me to cry crocodile tears for her. Her house damages will be paid for by the Police dept.
Aren't her actions something civic-minded people should be advocating instead of hurling racist and political insults at?
Ah, yes, the old reliable race card. Inserted where it doesn't belong in order to stifle debate. Sorry, nic, but I didn't say anything about Ms. Clemmons' race so keep your race baiting tactics out of this forum.
Your views represent everything I find so sad about the human condition...
As does your families actions, nic. Truly sad and pathetic to want the blood money your nephew caused, not to mention the loss of 4 spouses and a father or mother to 9 children. Look in the miirror and ask yourself "which is the worse position to be in? Ms. Clemmons' or the families of the officers killed?". Well?
Posted by: Rick D. on December 10, 2009 07:11 AMYes, I feel sorry for someone who is temporarily homeless because of circumstances well outside of their control. She doesn't bear the scarlet letter because you decide that her entire family deserves to burn in Hell.
Posted by: John Jensen on December 10, 2009 10:44 AMNo one is doing that, except for you. Just because someone is murdered in LA today doesn't mean that it'd be swell if my iPhone gets stolen. Or just because thousands of people died on 9/11 doesn't mean that four police officers being murdered wasn't tragic. Yes, the magnitude is different. Yes, the tragedy of four police officers being murdered is greater than someone being temporarily homeless. But that mean that being homeless is somehow easier or less bothersome. The aunt does not carry the cross for her nephew, and why should she? In this society, we are not beholden to the failures of our family.
Posted by: John Jensen on December 10, 2009 10:51 AMActually I'm arguing the very opposite, but don't let that get in the way of your rant.
From Rick's arguments, it's a wonder we don't shoot or jail the Aunt since some of her family members broke the law.
I was going to ask how those anti-hysteria pills were working, John, but I can see from this post that you'll need to find an alternate remedy.
She doesn't bear the scarlet letter because you decide that her entire family deserves to burn in Hell.
Wow, chock full of red herring's today, eh John? As I told nic, have a look in the mirror and ask yourself which family is in more pain today, Clemmons', or the 4 others that he killed senselessly?
"When a society becomes soft and tender, it tends to take sides with those who harm it."~ Nietzsche
Posted by: Rick D. on December 10, 2009 11:12 AMIf you had any cognitive capabilities, you would have been able to understand that Nic was trying to blast SP for its supposed (in his wee little mind) lack of empathy for the aunt.
No one here has ever stated that the Aunt deserved zero sympathy or that she was not inconvenienced. The fact is, the original post acknowledged her inconvenience, because it is exactly that, an inconvenience. It does NOT compare on any level with the loss of a father/mother/brother/sister/husband/wife/son/daughter due to the actions of a scumbag criminal.
For you to be defending Nic simply exposes you for the cowardly person that you are.
Hopefully you will never have to experience a loss of the magnitude that the families of the officers are, because I would wager that if you do, you will not be concerned at all about damage to a house. If you are concerned about it, that simply shows that you have no capacity for emotion.
Either way, I pity you, both now and if you experience such loss.
BTW, nice contradiction in your own post, wherein you state in one sentence that the tragedy of four lost lives is much greater than being temporarily homeless, then in the very next sentence you state that being homeless is no easier or less bothersome than that tragedy.
So, the only one here that is actually trying to compare the damage to a house with the loss of four lives is, in fact, you.
How many mouths do you speak out of, on a regular basis? At least two, for sure.
Okay.
BTW, nice contradiction in your own post, wherein you state in one sentence that the tragedy of four lost lives is much greater than being temporarily homeless, then in the very next sentence you state that being homeless is no easier or less bothersome than that tragedy.
I meant that it's no easier nor less bothersome for the aunt.
So, the only one here that is actually trying to compare the damage to a house with the loss of four lives is, in fact, you.
You continue trying to link them. They are unrelated. It is ridiculous to think we cannot reflect on the poor fortune of the aunt (who did a good deed) without pausing for the officer's unfortunate murders. I am capable of feeling multiple emotions, and I reject need your condescending, black & white view of the world that the death of four officers makes it impossible for anyone else to suffer needlessly.
Rick D, As I told nic, have a look in the mirror and ask yourself which family is in more pain today, Clemmons', or the 4 others that he killed senselessly?
How is that AT ALL RELEVANT? Tell me, please. What if the aunt's husband died of a heart attack? Would you still condescendingly tell me that she has nothing to worry about -- her husband wasn't shot to death by a nut?
No. There are many wrongs in the world. Clearly the aunt is better off than the victims, but she herself seems to be going through some hardship and like any human being with a pulse I have empathy for her right now. Unlike you, I do not imply that it is impossible to feel for her simply because the others in her family committed wrongs.
I feel for the victims and I feel for the aunt. I am capable of feeling for both. I do not need to condescend to others and inform them how we should all be in mourning and that all other concerns take a back seat.
Posted by: John Jensen on December 10, 2009 01:12 PM"I meant that it's no easier nor less bothersome for the aunt."
Yes John, I am sure that having to go stay somewhere else while your house is repaired is just as bad as having to live the rest of your life without your father.
What a moronic viewpoint. Obviously, you have no one to love or to love you.
I did NOT try to link them. Nic did orginally, and you did when you compared the inconvenience of temporarily being forced out of your home to the death of four officers. The fact that you dispute this is both sickening and disgusting.
You also keep putting forth your stupid strawman argument wherein you claim we can not feel sorry for the aunt at the same time we mourn the loss of the officers. No one is promoting that, except you in your illogical attempt to appear morally superior. There is, however a certain decorum lacking in both Brodeur's article and your defense of it, and your defense of Nic. It appears that you are incapable of understanding that.
Posted by: komodo_dragon on December 10, 2009 01:32 PMThe fact that these four officers died under tragic circumstances does not make the aunt's situation any easier. That is what I'm saying.
I am not comparing the two events in magnitude. I felt that you and others have done that throughout this thread.
You did it in these sentences:
* I am sure that having to go stay somewhere else while your house is repaired is just as bad as having to live the rest of your life without your father.
* It does NOT compare on any level with the loss of a father/mother/brother/sister/husband/wife/son/daughter due to the actions of a scumbag criminal.
* The fact that you would attempt to compare the damage to a house with the loss of even one human life, let alone four lives indicates that it is you, in fact, who is suffering from "a sheltered, completely undynamic existence" and a "lack of basic human empathy...".
* What is the probability that her home will be restored to as good or better condition than it was before the incident, versus the probability that the families of the slain officers will have their lives restored to as good or better condition than they were before the incident.
Here's what others wrote:
* And yes, it's too bad her home was trashed but does this compare in any way to the loss suffered by the families of the slain police officers?
* I reserve my empathy for the cops and the families of the cops.
And more.
But they are unrelated. No one has asked you to stop mourning the police officers. Apparently some think there is a small, fixed amount of time we can spend concerned about others, and all of that time must be devoted to the tragedy of the fallen officers. I reject that, and I can recognize that a heinous crime occurred while also having empathy for the aunt. They are completely different circumstances and stories. Of course the magnitude is different and the comparison cannot be made.
Nic never compared the two in this thread. You seem to feel that even discussing the aunt is creating the comparison. That is ridiculous. Life is more complex and tragedy has many different perspectives. Not a single person here on either side has disrespected the fallen officers or their families.
Stop telling us that thinking of the aunt amounts of ignoring a serious tragedy and stop being so damned angry.
Posted by: John Jensen on December 10, 2009 01:54 PM"I meant that it's no easier nor less bothersome for the aunt."
You made that statement in response to this statement by me:
"BTW, nice contradiction in your own post, wherein you state in one sentence that the tragedy of four lost lives is much greater than being temporarily homeless, then in the very next sentence you state that being homeless is no easier or less bothersome than that tragedy."
You are the one who is claiming that her suffering is equivalent to the suffering of the families of the slain officers. That is why you are a coward and a sick, twisted, individual. I would say the same about anyone who made that comparison.
And for the record, John, having to deal with the inconvenience of having your house damaged is jnowhere close to dealing eith the loss of a family member. The house is just an inanimate object, unlike the slain officers.
I'm done with you.
But what I am saying is the aunt's suffering is MADE no easier than the families of the slain officers. They are separate things. I am able to feel empathy for the aunt without commentary or comparison on the officer's deaths.
You are the one who is claiming that her suffering is equivalent to the suffering of the families of the slain officers.
I haven't done that a single time. I have told you multiple times that this is not my point-of-view. Why is it that you are unable to present your views without trying to vilify me?
You are comparing the two events. To me, they are separate things entirely.
That is why you are a coward and a sick, twisted, individual.
Right. Having empathy for all who suffer needlessly is a terrible attribute. I'd much rather be like you: an angry, self-righteous person who twists the words of others for the worse possible meaning and is unable to empathize with a woman who is temporarily homeless.
You're a real jerk.
Posted by: John Jensen on December 10, 2009 03:57 PMI can empathize with the aunt and with the families of the victims and with my friend going through chemo and with my other friend who lost his job and with my neighbor who lost his cat. I am capable of having multiple emotions for multiple people without denigrating the memory of the fallen officers. I have no idea why this concept is controversial.
Rick D went further than komodo and practically said the aunt deserved to be out of a place to sleep because the rest of her family is comprised of criminals. That was a dumb comment, and Rick D is smarter than saying stuff like that. I don't know why everyone is so hyped on this particular topic and to angry and self-righteous. You know something is wrong with the picture when you're telling other people who to care for and why.
Posted by: John Jensen on December 10, 2009 04:05 PMWhatever else I may or may not be, at least I am not you, thankfully.
Thanks for showing us that to you, material posessions are as valuable as human life.
That says it all about your twisted "values".
It's called perspective and situational context, John.
Look Tell me, please. What if the aunt's husband died of a heart attack? Would you still condescendingly tell me that she has nothing to worry about -- her husband wasn't shot to death by a nut?
Speaking of irrelevance, "what if" or hypothetical situations that didn't occur do not have any meaning other than in your irrational mind.
There are many wrongs in the world. Clearly the aunt is better off than the victims, but she herself seems to be going through some hardship and like any human being with a pulse I have empathy for her right now.
Clearly she is. So don't go looking to score the blood money when:
A) your loved one was the cause of the murders that generated the reward in the first place.
B) when you realize that you DON'T FRIGGIN QUALIFY to receive the reward according the organization that was offering it. Simple enough, right?
I feel for the victims and I feel for the aunt. I am capable of feeling for both. I do not need to condescend to others and inform them how we should all be in mourning and that all other concerns take a back seat.
Refer back to my statement above.
I reject that, and I can recognize that a heinous crime occurred while also having empathy for the aunt. They are completely different circumstances and stories. Of course the magnitude is different and the comparison cannot be made.
Then how come you said it was irrelevant for me to put it in context by looking in the mirror and asking those very questions?
Nic never compared the two in this thread. You seem to feel that even discussing the aunt is creating the comparison. That is ridiculous. Life is more complex and tragedy has many different perspectives.
No, he just lied and said I made racist and political comments- I made one political comment and no comments regarding race. Of course, as I said, he used that defense to shut down all discussion and I told him he needs to get his facts straight in here.
Not a single person here on either side has disrespected the fallen officers or their families.
Sure they have. Cresceda Clemmons pissed on their graves by attempting to collect the blood money before the bodies were even buried. All out of greed. The damaged house will be paid for by the tax payers and her house will probably be nicer than it was to begin with.
Stop telling us that thinking of the aunt amounts of ignoring a serious tragedy and stop being so damned angry.
All of those lies you're telling is making you delerious, Jensen. You'll have to point to my exact quote where I said any such thing. I'd say you're the angry one here.
Rick D went further than komodo and practically said the aunt deserved to be out of a place to sleep because the rest of her family is comprised of criminals.
Once again, Jensen lies. Perhaps you'll need to back up this rubbish you're spewing with specific entries I used. Right now, your batting .1000 in the misrepresentation, out of context and outright lies dept.
That was a dumb comment, and Rick D is smarter than saying stuff like that.
Once again, John. What comment? how about some specific quotations to back that statement up?
You know something is wrong with the picture when you're telling other people who to care for and why.
Citation? I haven't told anyone in this thread what to think. I asked yourself and nic to look yourself in the mirror and ask which family was in more pain, the Clemmons' or those of the 4 officers. And answer that simple question truthfully. Now you have context.
Posted by: Rick D. on December 10, 2009 05:16 PMSad but true, certain people act that way when politicians/lawyers who ignore the rule of law/American Constitution get involved who think they are above the law. It also applies to politicians when it comes to spending other people's money as evidenced by actions of the current administration.
Posted by: KDS on December 10, 2009 05:43 PM
What does that have to do with her suffering?
Komodo, you're a nutter. Go away.
Also, the multiple telephone calls sounded like they were more concerned with their kids' well being than actually helping him hide there.
She asked Maurice if he was armed. Yes, he said.
Shantz told him: "You cannot come to the house. Period."
He asked Maurice if he was willing to get rid of the gun. No.
"Probably an hour passed, and I was getting more panicked," Chrisceda Clemmons said. "Then I just got into the car with Michael and said, 'Let's go.' "
Sounds like she had at least an hour to call either the police or crimestoppers, but didn't. I don't see her as the hero at all in this. She was merely a mother protecting her children and herself from her nutty nephew that was armed and refused to give up the weapon. Why ask if he was willing to give up the gun? Why not call police immediately rather than wait an hour? So, no, no I don't weep much for Ms. Clemmons situation as she was instrumental in orchestrating it (no pun intended). Police could have set up a perimeter around the house and taken Clemmon's down before more needless bloodshed occured.