February 12, 2010
Hell Freezes, Liberals Concerned About Higher Taxes

I had to read it twice to be sure it was true. It was. Joni Balter, Seattle Times editorial columnist, wrote a column in the February 11, 2010 issue of the Times bemoaning the tax whipsaw citizens are experiencing with the various taxing entities each seeking more money without regard to what others are doing. We must be at the infamous tipping point when even liberals start to worry about taxes. After listing some of the city, county and state planned increases she concludes: "Your wallet and head and mine begin to ache."

Well welcome to Democrat heaven Joni. Just look at your property tax statement. If you live in Seattle, you pay a state school tax, Seattle schools construction and operating levies, emergency medical tax, surface water tax, soil conservation tax, noxious weed tax, Port of Seattle tax, King County ferry tax, flood control tax, Seattle and King County taxes that pay for the general operating expenses and voter approved taxes (we do it to ourselves) for libraries, parks, low income housing, Seattle's Family and Education levy (separate from school levies), Stadium tax (which Balter points out officially ends in 2012 but the line is already forming for public groups who want to continue the tax for all manner of "good" causes). Add in sales tax, higher sales tax for restaurant meals, gas tax, liquor tax, tobacco tax, auto tab tax, light rail tax, utility taxes too numerous to list and the bill gets to be fairly high. But that's not all. Business taxes passed on to customers, fees, and charges and, of course, income taxes, all totaled, explain why tax freedom day, even in a recession, falls in April.

Governments start new programs, lock in more entitlements and spend freely during the boom years and then when the downturns occur threaten to cut police, fire and schools unless the taxpayer ponies up more. Meanwhile long range financial planning to meet future needs such as bridge replacements is ignored.

In Washington State, the Left promotes their version of tax reform. Just add an income tax and we can lower property and sales taxes and provide a more predictable and fair tax system. The only problem is people look at states like California, New York, Illinois etc. and they are broke (spent more, and promised more than they could deliver). Oregon, with no sales tax, is trying the tax the rich approach. We'll see how that works out.

The Democrats blame Tim Eyman. But Tim and phenomena like the Tea Party Movement is only the natural result of the ever-increasing growth in government and the taxes required to feed it. Obviously, we need government and taxes. The conversation now is how much of each can we afford, what is the fairest way to pay and how can we set limits to control the pressure to spend? Eyman's initiatives are not the best way to answer the questions but until elected officials get the message, it may be the only way.

Posted by warrenpeterson at February 12, 2010 11:23 AM | Email This
Comments
1. Liberals, when and if they grow up, become conservatives.

Seldom do you hear stories of a Republican getting a job, house, growing a business, a retirement fund and a family and then decide that all this government is a good thing and declare themselves a Democrat.


Posted by: Andy on February 12, 2010 11:46 AM
2. Tax the successful enough and they will quit. Then where will be?

Posted by: jimt on February 12, 2010 11:57 AM
3. Tax the successful too much and they will quit. Then where will we be?

Posted by: jimt on February 12, 2010 11:59 AM
4. If you're not a liberal by age 20, you have no heart.

If you're not a conservative by age 40, you have no brain.

Unfortunately, some people never learn.

Posted by: Jack on February 12, 2010 12:11 PM
5. Liberals fail to understand that raising taxes more than a very small percentage will yield less revenue by government than by cutting taxes. I know that the left is math-challenged. There are numerous studies around that verify this fact and it would be educational to have these studies provided for the viewing of all.

They fail or don't want to see the so-called unintended consequences of raising taxes. That is why it can be concluded that Dimocrats or whoever do not care about small businesses (which suffer the most) when they raise taxes.

Posted by: KDS on February 12, 2010 01:12 PM
6. State general fund 2005-2007 = $60.5 billion
State general fund 2009-2011 = $69.5 billion +14.9% increase
The State budget is $3.5 billion underfunded. So why not just cut spending back to $66.0 billion. It would still be 10% more than the 2005-2007 budget which seems like a pretty reasonable increase over that time period.
When they try and sell us on the drastic budget cuts needed to balance the budget they are quite simply lying. I don't remember the 2005-2007 period as being one of people dying in the streets or going without police and firemen and sewers running in the rivers and streams.
They just don't want to give up all their pet programs they started the last couple of years.
Please call you representatives and senators and give let them know taxhikes are BS. The tax increases they are planning are huge and if you think they won't become permanent think about the last time you saw a tax decreased or eliminated. Ain't going to happen!

Posted by: RJK on February 12, 2010 01:16 PM
7. Difficult economic times.
Property value... down.
But wait ! That would give the government less money! We can't have that !
Therefore, the rate of taxation has been increased.
Presto...
Taxes UP !

I don't know enough about the Law or the Washington State Constitution to know who or how they got away with this, but it's a done deal.
This year I pay more property tax than last year.

Posted by: teapartygrandma` on February 12, 2010 02:46 PM
8. The Tipping Point will be fully realized when the Mob hits the streets. The Mob referred to is that unruly lawless gang of people who during times of great discontent will surge and riot through the streets. It can happen here when, high taxes, high prices, joblessness and general lack of substance amongst the Populace will cause the lower elements of Society to riot. The lower elements are made up of the Criminals/Lawless and their fellow extended family the Left/Liberals. When, these people are forced to realize that Government and the Unions can no longer sustain nor support them in the manner which they have become accustom to...Watch Out!

Posted by: Daniel on February 12, 2010 03:45 PM
9. Democrats are becoming concerned about a great many things as they stand in the shadow of being thrown out of office in November.

Obama is now about to change his mind and try KSM in military court. I kid you not. Holder says that the only thing that is important is that world see's it as fair.

These guys are complete idiots. We have elected morons run the country. To them, justice means only what the rest of the wold thinks about how we prosecute people.

Liberals... liberals who defended Obama's choice of trying KSM in NY City. Do you approve of him changing his mind and trying KSM in military court instead? Do you just agree with whatever the hell he wants to do from one day to the next (like tracking us via cell phones with no warrant)
because he's just so darn magnificent, and makes your legs tingle?

Posted by: Gary on February 12, 2010 04:09 PM
10. Andy @ #1

I can think of one, Rodney Tom. He has either become power hungry whore with no values of his own, or has completely lost his mind, before politics he was a conservative. He once ran on a platform, "I believe in Public Schools, my kids go to them." Now he's in power and has the NEA and WEA funneling him funds and giving him his marching orders, his kids go to PRIVATE school.

Posted by: Dik on February 12, 2010 04:27 PM
11. HAHAHAHAHA, To late now.

I under stand they want to increase the taxes on fuel...

Can you say dumb.

Posted by: Medic/Vet on February 12, 2010 05:26 PM
12. Daniel@8
"The lower elements are made up of the Criminals/Lawless and their fellow extended family the Left/Liberals. When, these people are forced to realize that Government and the Unions can no longer sustain nor support them in the manner which they have become accustom to...Watch Out!"
I'm one of those Left/Liberals supported by a caring union. I resent the idea that I might loose my government job because of your insensitive need to avoid higher taxes. As the tax base of this state continues to deteriorate, it plain that more funds are needed to sustain our way of life in this wonderful state. Isn't that why you moved here? An adequate and efficient government will preclude the unruly nonsense you speak of. Unlike you and many others, some of us don't have a rewarding job. It's time that you took a look around you and become part of the solution, not the problem...

Posted by: Mike G on February 12, 2010 05:31 PM
13. We don't exist to support the state. The state exists to serve us. It must live within its means; not loot the citizens because special interests who don't pay the taxes others do simply want more.

Posted by: Yosemite Sam on February 12, 2010 06:44 PM
14. @12..Yeah, Mike G...You're one of those Left/Liberals who think the Producers/Taxpayers owe them a Living. Even when, the rest of us who produce the wealth and pay Ridiculous and Confiscatory High Taxes to provide you with a job that pays you much more than, a similar job in the Private Sector and yet, when we have to cut back because, of hard times, you feel the right and entitlement to continue your job and pay, benefits/entitlements unabated? We are Not your servant. You are our servant. You and your fellow Parasites, think no matter how Bloated and Excessive your Government and Unions are and whether, the jobs within Government is truly necessary, they have the right to burden/steal more from the honest producers of Society. Yes, you and your friends will continue your Blood Sucking demands until you destroy the Goose/Us that lays the Golden Eggs for you. Well, Guess What? We have had it with Big Government and the Unions destroying this Nation and Us along with it. We have every Right to resist higher Taxes. It is far past time for Big Government and Unions to cut back and reduce Spending rather, than raise Taxes. Runaway Big Government and the Unions have become the Enemy of America and the Liberty and Lifestyle that goes with it. We are rapidly coming to an impasse. If this War to enslave the American People by Big Government and the Unions is not brought to a halt, America cannot survive. A line needs to be drawn in the sand...PERIOD!

Personal Note: If you want a rewarding job...Get an honest job in the Private Sector and quit being a Leech upon Society.

Posted by: Daniel on February 12, 2010 06:53 PM
15. Yes Daniel, you do pay taxes for the exceptional services we provide to this state. Without going into my specific job, I will say I work in the permitting section, insuring that businesses and construction projects are completed in a way that does not hamper public safety. We work hard each day so this state can participate in a growth plan which does not stain the environmental beauty of this great state. I'm proud of the work that I do, though it is tough to deal with some taxpayers that feel they can expend resources anyway they want. I resent you calling me and my fellow workers Parasites as we work hard to make sure all planning and paper work is in correct order. We are stewards of this state. We don't receive extra pay in the form of a bonus like many of you do. Understand, we will not destroy the 'Golden Egg", we are the ones that make it gold for people like you. Big government and unions are the future of this state/country as they will eliminate the unchecked bloated and extreme salaries the private sector always enjoy. You should be honored to pay the slight extra taxes we request as we will continue to assure your quality of life. Daniel, you live in a new world not like the 50's and 60's. Get use to it...

Posted by: Mike G. on February 12, 2010 07:43 PM
16. Joni's been very good on taxes durng the last year. She's done some of the most thoughtful, informed, and wise pieces I've read on the subject for a while. Cut her some slack. If people agree with you, give them some credit, rather than reflexively bashing them for not being with you all the time. That's uncivil, and not very smart. This blog should be better than that.

Posted by: ChapelSt on February 12, 2010 10:41 PM
17. the democrat concern about taxes will last until the day after the election.

Posted by: Ron K on February 12, 2010 11:57 PM
18. Everybody...Read Mike G's post @15 and you will get an idea of how wonderful and indispensable Government Union Workers think of themselves. What a Laugh! What Arrogance!

Yeah...Right! You work in the permitting section. The section that waves the magic wand and charges big bucks for a person to build on his own land. Yeah...We need that extra Cost,Theft and assault on our Liberty and Right to build on our own Land from Big Government. Like, the Private Sector needs your department's oversight and permission to build structure on our own land because, we are too Dumb and Simple-minded to be able handle the enterprise on our own. Get Real! You work for a department that is far, far more Parasitic and a disservice than a service. What a Joke!

The more I read your commentary, the more I think you must certainly be pulling my leg. Surely, your Joking! You can't be as Insane as you sound. You had better read post #13 from Yosemite Sam again and again to get a sense as to where you truly stand. Your sense of proportion and where things are at in the World Scope and Balance, is way off target. What you are, is an Enemy of the people, something our founders have Warned us about. Something that President Thomas Jefferson meant when, he said the Tree of Liberty needs to be watered every so often by the Blood of the Patriots to get rid of the Scallywags.

Big Government and the Unions are Not, the Future of this State or Country. If Big Government and the Unions are not brought into Check...This Country will Collapse and there won't be any Country. If we pay an Increase in Taxes, it would be the same as throwing another Log on the Fire. Government, like the Fire, would simply get Larger and demand more until Government, like the Fire, will soon get so large that it will destroy our house. Such, a Deal!

There are a couple of old sayings you should be apprised of: #1 If there is a way to do it Wrong...Government will find a way. #2 If you can't get and hold an honest job in the Private Sector, you can always get and hold a Government job...Nuff said.

Posted by: Daniel on February 13, 2010 01:42 AM
19. Mike G, you have got to be kidding!!! I have been into enough government offices to know that you are not working hard.. yuo work about 4 hours a day and when someone comes in for help you sit around and act like they are not there... your comments expose the true mentality and culture of our government.. i have seen job postings and know that many government jobs pay more than I make in the private sector.. I have a masters degree and work a heck of a lot more hours than you.. My job is not as secure and my benefits are not as good... so I am not sure what you are referring to in terms of fat paychecks.. Unions and big government are not good! just ask the auto industry. You people in government forgot who you work for.. you work for us.. you have the entitlement mentality that is taking this country down the toilet..

Posted by: scott b on February 13, 2010 05:30 AM
20. Tennessee, a state with no income tax, lower sales tax, lower property tax is looking better and better. Keep raising taxes and the productive people (i.e. private sector) will move out. Boeing is now headquartered in Chicago, a state with both income and sales tax. Yet it was cheaper to move to Illinois than put up with the never-ending increasing tax and regulations here.
I also note that within a month of Oregon passing the "tax the rich" 66 & 67 that several businesses have either decided to not expand/hire more people or to move out of the state.
Anyone who has trained a puppy knows you reward the actions you want and punish the undesirable actions. Do you want more jobs created? lower taxes. You want to raise taxes? Then do not be surprised when jobs leave the state.


Posted by: Viktor on February 13, 2010 08:50 AM
21. Yes, those wonderful, efficient State offices and workers. That same group that has - for the last 3 years - demanded I turn in my quarterly B&O tax statements for a business closed in 2007. The same group that every quarter I have to go through hours of hassle - AGAIN - to get them to realize their own error, usually resolved by mailing them notarized copies of their own admission of error last quarter. That same group that has - twice - threatened to place liens on my personal property for failure to pay B&O taxes on a business that didn't exist.

Yes, the epitome of efficiency! Why, they need more money, more people, just more taxes so they can further track down tax cheats like me who haven't paid B&O taxes for the current quarter on businesses closed for years...

Posted by: Shanghai Dan on February 13, 2010 09:12 AM
22. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703630404575053324236600444.html

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/02/11/20100211climate-brewer0211.html


http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/12/utah-climate-alarmists

Drive a wooden stake through the heart of WCI and fire the 3000 employees added to DOE to implement WCI. That could save $ one billion or more.

Posted by: Paddy on February 13, 2010 04:26 PM
23. Seattle and all municipalities in the state of Washington should take a page from the folks in Colorado Springs.

Yes We Can!

Posted by: Dufus McBroke on February 14, 2010 06:26 AM
24. @20 Viktor on February 13, 2010 08:50 AM,

Yet despite the terrible and unfair and inefficient tax rates the state of Washington has a per capita income above the national average, ranking at 8 of 50 at $48,574.
Compare that to your Tennessee ranked at 36 of 50, below the national average income with $38,090.

Table 2 at State-Local Tax Burdens...

Compare further using the Tax Foundation's analysis.

WA: $48,574 income - $2,957 Taxes Paid to Home State = $45,617 left in your pocket.

TN: $38,090 income - $1,779 Taxes Paid to Home State = $36,311 left in your pocket.

"Tennessee, a state with no income tax, lower sales tax, lower property tax is looking better and better."

Only to the dim witted.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 07:32 AM
25. @20 Viktor on February 13, 2010 08:50 AM,

On May 10, 2001 Boeing announced its brilliant decision to move its HQ from Seattle to Chicago.

"We're continuing to transform our company with a focus on long-term growth and value creation. Our new corporate architecture - with a leaner headquarters located separately from our major business units - is a fundamental element of our business strategy," said Boeing Chairman and CEO Phil Condit.

On May 11, 2001 following the announcement Boeing stock closed at $66.01.
On May 11, 2001 Amazon, a company that did not decide to leave Washington, stock closed at $14.68.

On Friday, February 12, 2010 Boeing's stock closed at $59.65.
On Friday, February 12, 2010 Amazon's stock closed at $119.66.

"Boeing is now headquartered in Chicago, a state with both income and sales tax. Yet it was cheaper to move to Illinois than put up with the never-ending increasing tax and regulations here."

Yep, it sure was cheaper wasn't it.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 08:00 AM
26. @24, 25, MikeBS...Do you really think that Businesses that have to compete on a National and World Scale and who provide jobs for thousands want to locate in a State where wages are high, taxes are high, regulations are restrictive and suffocating, a State where it is Not, a Right to Work State, A State where the Unions force shutdowns by endless Strikes and disruptions to productive activities? Yeah...Right! Washington State has been pricing its self out of the ability to provide a good business climate for many years. Have a Clue!

Posted by: Daniel on February 14, 2010 09:35 AM
27. @26 Daniel on February 14, 2010 09:35 AM,

No, I don't believe.
I understand based upon data that taxes are but one factor in making the profitable decision to locate a business.

I offered you two examples of businesses which chose to locate out of the state of Washington or locate within the state Washington and their performance.

Can you offer an example which indicates the benefit of a company relocating out of the state of Washington? That beats the performance of Amazon?

Are any of the 7 states which have a higher per capita income than Washington state right to work states Daniel?

And if WA is really so damn bad, why do you choose to live here?
Ignorance? Or hypocrisy?


Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 10:06 AM
28. And Daniel (and Viktor),
just how does the unemployment rate in states like S. Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi and the great low tax/right to work rump of the nation compare to Washington State?

Why hasn't the their tax and labor policies enabled these states to do far better than WA, which has been pricing its self out of the ability to provide a good business climate for many years.? Could it be your belief that tax rates are deterministic for job creation, business profit and quality of life is absolutely a crock of excrement that you repeatedly swallow?

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 10:31 AM
29. Mike...Comparing Amazon to Boeing is comparing Apples to Oranges to the Extreme! Amazon is a relative new company. Any successful Company that begins its growth at Zero, will have a more accelerated growth percentage in the beginning than, a vastly more mature Company. Plus, the fact that Boeing has Billions of shares on the market as apposed to millions of shares for Amazon. If you would dilute the value of Amazon shares and bring their number of shares up to equal Boeing's number of shares...Do you think that Amazon's shares would drop precipitously below the value of Boeing shares? Again, have a Clue!

Uncompetitive High Wages forced upon Businesses by Unions plus, the interference in restricting the management of a productive workforce by resisting the firing of the non-productive and rewarding the productive as well as Strikes, gives Good Reason not to establish a Business in such a State. Much of this has been explained to you before. However, being a Liberal/Communist such, explanations simply go over your head.

Who knows...In time maybe, Amazon will opt to leave along with Boeing and others.

It is runaway Government, Unions, Socialist/Communist, Blind, Brain-dead GODLESS Liberals that are destroying this State. For the benefit of this State...It is You and your kind that should leave...PERIOD!

Posted by: Daniel on February 14, 2010 11:02 AM
30. @28, Mike BS...You're such an IDIOT! Washington State had established the Foundation of its Wealth and Growth long before runaway Government, Unions, Regulations, High Taxes began to have their Deteriorating Effects. Yes, we have the advantage of being a Coastal State and to begin our Strong Growth in the Export, Import, Fisheries and Timber and have been Blessed with Companies having their beginnings with a number growing to have a commanding presents in the World Markets. Now, we are sick with the Cancer of runaway Big Government and Unions with all their Negative destructive effects. If this keeps up, we will be in the same position as California. Such a Deal!

Posted by: Daniel on February 14, 2010 11:29 AM
31. @29 Daniel on February 14, 2010 11:02 AM,

"Comparing Amazon to Boeing is comparing Apples to Oranges blah, blah, blah"

You have a better comparison than Boeing pre-relocation to Boeing post-relocation?
You have a better comparison than Bezos intentionally locating in Washington to relocating outside of Washington?

No, you don't.
Despite constantly yammering and commenting about it, you cannot cite a single example that supports your assertion.

Not surprised.


Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 11:29 AM
32. @31, MikeBS...Read post #30 and Think and Try to connect the Dots and maybe you'll realize to some small degree as to where it is at. Naah...For Get It! You're...a Liberal. Nuff..said.

Posted by: Daniel on February 14, 2010 11:37 AM
33. @29 Daniel on February 14, 2010 11:02 AM,

"It is runaway Government, Unions, Socialist/Communist, Blind, Brain-dead GODLESS Liberals that are destroying this State."

Ok, then how do you explain what is destroying South Carolina?

Unemployment: SC= 12.6% WA= 9.5%

per capita income: SC= $39,103 WA= $48,574

Charleston, SC

"State lawmakers are still struggling to balance the books, but they are making progress. In January, South Carolina was facing a half a million dollar budget deficit, but now budget writers say the new deficit is $100 million."

Do the math, what's the trend for SC?

Who knew that South Carolina was plagued by runaway Government, Unions, Socialist/Communist, Blind, Brain-dead GODLESS Liberals.

"Idiots", indeed

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 11:50 AM
34. Yes, Big Government has Criminally infected the United States as a Whole. Some States more than others. We are in a battle to survive from the Cancer of runaway Government, Unions, Socialism, Liberalism/Communism. Are you beginning to get it yet?

Posted by: Daniel on February 14, 2010 11:58 AM
35. @32 Daniel on February 14, 2010 11:37 AM,

"Try to connect the Dots..."

The only relevant Dot is the decimal point which apparently precedes your IQ.

ps. Buy this Capitalization: Teaching Correct Capitalization to Kids.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 12:00 PM
36. One of the many troubles with Liberals are that they can research and research and still can't put it together. The World is a very confusing place for them. And..Yes Capitalization is Very Important, much more than Substance and Meaning. I must always speak and write in a monotone manner. I must always present myself as Jack, the proper and boring dull...Boy. Your priority of Concerns are in typical Liberal order

Posted by: Daniel on February 14, 2010 12:31 PM
37. @36 Daniel on February 14, 2010 12:31 PM,

"And..Yes Capitalization is Very Important, much more than Substance and Meaning."

Hey numbnuts,
shall you find and cite an example of a business which chose to relocate out of the state of Washington and its post relocation performance?

Can you offer an example which indicates the benefit of a company relocating out of the state of Washington? That beats the performance of Amazon?

Or are you just going to continue to Blather on Endlessly with Poor cApItAlIzAtIoN?


Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 12:48 PM
38. Let's see...How about Boeing? If Boeing found it disadvantages to move its headquarters from Washington State, would it continue to move other elements to other States...Say, South Carolina? I mean, without going into a lot of Research, doesn't that give you any idea as to which way the wind is blowing? Probably Not...You're a Liberal!

Posted by: Daniel on February 14, 2010 01:07 PM
39. FYI for the echo chamber...

Forbes Magazine, "The Capitalist Tool", rates Washington state #2 of 50 (up from #3 in 2006) in evaluating best states for business.
Forbes measured six vital categories for businesses: costs, labor supply, regulatory environment, current economic climate, growth prospects and quality of life.

Since such a finding contradicts the common wisdom of the geniuses who post and comment here at (un)SP, the Forbes motto of "The Capitalist Tool." must be false and the Forbes family and its businesses are obviously Criminally infected with liberal socialism.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 01:07 PM
40. @38 Daniel on February 14, 2010 01:07 PM,

"Let's see...How about Boeing? If Boeing found it disadvantages to move its headquarters from Washington State, would it continue to move other elements to other States...Say, South Carolina? I mean, without going into a lot of Research,"

Hey numbnuts,
go read my comment @25 and tell me how well Boeing has done since it moved its headquarters.

ps. $59.65 ,
go read my comment @25 and tell me how well Boeing has done since it moved its headquarters.

ps. $59.65 is less than $66.01.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 01:14 PM
41. Well, apparently, Boeing disagrees along with others. Isn't that where it is at? Isn't that where the rubber meets the road rather than, some Phony evaluation. Isn't the fact of Businesses not coming into the State and a Business like Boeing, leaving the State proves the point than, some evaluation? But, you keep on researching, it will keep you busy and thinking you're so all knowing yet, others will know that you a just, a Confused Liberal. What a Laugh!

Posted by: Daniel on February 14, 2010 01:19 PM
42. Hey numbnuts,

You can't show us "the fact of Businesses not coming into the State" because it does not exist.
In 4 hours you have yet to produce any facts.
You just pull sh*t out of your a*s and call it a fact.

That is why you so rightfully earn the nom de plume numbnuts.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 01:30 PM
43. @40, You're a Liberal! You just don't Get it! Boeing is doing better than it would have if it didn't start to move from Washington State. That's why, it is continuing to move out of State. The reason that Boeing is not doing as well as it would like, is because of a general recession in the World not, because it has move some of its elements out of Washington State. Discussion with you at any level has proved to be a Waste. Even, for a Liberal, you seem unusually disconnected. Are you sucking Weed?

Posted by: Daniel on February 14, 2010 01:31 PM
44. Businesses usually don't bother to tell a State they are not going to locate within a particular State. Why should they?.

Conservatives have Common Sense, Reason with Clinical Deduction for realizing the Truth without doing all the research that Liberals must do at the risk of poor returns due to the deceit of this World which prevents the contamination of misinformation that the Easy Believing Liberals seem always to fall Sucker to.

As far as my taking the time to doing research, in this case, it is not necessary. The reasons are too Fundamental to require research.

Posted by: Daniel on February 14, 2010 01:49 PM
45. @43 numbnuts on February 14, 2010 01:31 PM,

"You just don't Get it! Boeing is doing better than it would have if it didn't start to move from Washington State"

Right. So much better. Lower stock price. Lower return on capital. Less employees. Years behind on the 787, 747-8, Department of Homeland Security 'virtual fence project, ...
It really doesn't get better than that.

@44 numbnuts on February 14, 2010 01:49 PM,

"As far as my taking the time to doing research, in this case, it is not necessary. The reasons are too Fundamental to require research."

Right.
Not a single example cited by you because it is not necessary, too Fundamental. Never mind all the facts that show your belief that tax rates are deterministic for job creation, business profit and quality of life to be absolutely a crock of excrement that you willingly swallow.

ps. Buy this - Capitalization: Teaching Correct Capitalization to Kids.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 03:10 PM
46. You poor SAP! Even, a fellow Liberal would consider you to be Nuttier than FruitCake! Get off the Bong!

Posted by: Daniel on February 14, 2010 03:18 PM
47. @46 Daniel on February 14, 2010 03:18 PM,

Such a sad and pathetic comeback.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 04:03 PM
48. More taxes?!?

I've already trimmed my budget and eliminated everything but the essentials. Where will the extra money come from? I might have to sell the car if I can't afford the tabs...

Is it too much to ask the politicians and state employees to do the same amount of budget-cutting the rest of us have had to do in this recession?

Posted by: CorkyAgain on February 14, 2010 05:17 PM
49. Recession Continues to Batter State Budgets; State Responses Could Slow Recovery

The worst recession since the 1930s has caused the steepest decline in state tax receipts on record. As a result, even after making very deep cuts, states continue to face large budget gaps. New shortfalls have opened up in the budgets of at least 41 states for the current fiscal year (FY 2010, which began July 1 in most states). In addition, initial indications are that states will face shortfalls as big as or bigger than they faced this year in the upcoming 2011 fiscal year. States will continue to struggle to find the revenue needed to support critical public services for a number of years In total, 48 states have addressed or still face shortfalls in their budgets for fiscal year 2010, totaling $194 billion or 28 percent of state budgets; the largest gaps on record

How a New Jobless Era Will Transform America

In November, 19.4 percent of all men in their prime working years, 25 to 54, did not have jobs, the highest figure since the Bureau of Labor Statistics began tracking the statistic in 1948.

Relief for States and Struggling Families Provides Substantial Boost to Employment

The employment-boosting effects of fiscal relief measures for cash-strapped states are similarly under appreciated or misunderstood. Faced with an unprecedented decline in revenues in this recession, states have been forced to implement deep and broad cutbacks in education, health care, and most other areas of state expenditures. The cuts have affected vulnerable children, seniors, and people with disabilities, among others. The role of federal assistance in avoiding even more draconian cuts has been important in protecting valuable state and local government services, but it has also provided an important boost to employment. Unlike the federal government, states have balanced-budget requirements for their operating budgets. As budget deficits begin to emerge in a recession, states must take actions to cut existing programs or raise new revenues. Those actions translate into layoffs of state workers, cancellation of contracts with vendors, and a diminished response to the hardship that beneficiaries of safety-net programs experience. Those effects reverberate through the economy, adding to the job losses and further weakening economic activity. Federal fiscal assistance to states makes these job losses smaller than they otherwise would be.

Maddow Calls Out Rep. Schock (R-IL) for Recovery Act Hypocrisy on MTP

REP. SCHOCK: Well, I don't like all the pork that was in the bill. Seven hundred eighty-seven billion dollar stimulus bill, the largest spending bill in, in history, one of the reasons why it didn't create long-term growth is it didn't have stimulative tax cuts in it, but rather a lot of pork and spending. MS. MADDOW: Which are the least stimulative things in the stimulus. I mean, when you assess what creates jobs, in the stimulus band it's the tax cuts that were put in in order to try to win Republican votes that didn't come anyway that are the least effective thing in the stimulus bill. So the theory doesn't match the practice here. MS. MADDOW: But, I mean, you, in your district... REP. SCHOCK: Well, I, I can assure you... MS. MADDOW: ...just this week you were at a community college touting a $350,000 green technology education program, talking about how great that was going to be for your district. You voted against the bill that created that grant. And so that's happening a lot with Republicans sort of taking credit for things that Democratic bills do, and then Republicans simultaneously touting their votes against them and trashing them. That's, I think, a, a, a problem that needs to be resolved within, within your caucus, because, I mean, you seem like a very nice person, but that's very hypocritical stance to take.

Barbour Embraces "Party Of No" Label

In an interview with National Journal, Barbour warned fellow Republicans not to fall into a trap that they managed to avoid in 1994: turning the midterm election into a choice between parties rather than a referendum on the party in control. "The idea that just being against bad policy will end up as bad politics is wrong," Barbour said. Barbour argues, though, that if Republicans release a national agenda early this year, they will just give Democrats something to attack. In 1994, the year the GOP seized the House and the Senate, House Republicans did not unveil the original Contract With America until autumn.

Rome burns, Nero fiddles.

Posted by: MikeBoyScout on February 14, 2010 10:24 PM
50. Hey, MikeBS...You poor Simplistic Dolt! What are you trying to do, fill this Forum with a Bunch of Clutter by trying to show off your ability to do Research? Trying to show off your ability to copy and paste? You're showing everybody what a Mindless IDIOT you are. Go back to sucking on your Bong.

Posted by: Daniel on February 15, 2010 09:06 AM
51. So MikeBS - what's the solution? I don't think anyone claims we're not in the throes of the Pelosi/Reid/Obama recession, the worst since the great depression. But how do we get out of it? What's the solution?

Posted by: Shanghai Dan on February 15, 2010 03:09 PM
52. You left out one Seattle school levy: the BTA which is the third of the levies used for big maintenance/athletic fields/academics and technology. I campaigned against that one because the district has a $500M (yes, half a billion) maintenance backlog because they cut basic maintenance by 40% about 15 years ago. My premise was that by deferring maintenance the district (1) makes taxpayers pay more for repairs that would have cost less under basic maintenance and (2) when they have almost half their buildings over 50 years old AND are renovating buildings to the tune of $100m+ (for high schools), you'd think the keeping those public investments would matter to the district. I mean, at the end of the day, it's about public safety and health in school buildings. There's only so much you can put off.

But no, it was voted in so congrats! you get to pay more for fewer repairs (because now the repairs cost more so, fewer things can be done). And, of course, the first $50M goes to reopening buildings they closed (2 of them just 3 years ago). It all makes sense but when you talk about school levies it's like Mom and apple pie. Nothing else seems to matter.

Posted by: Westello on February 15, 2010 07:27 PM
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